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Shilo Gem Mine

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777havoc
Dec Member 2018

777havoc

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Deltaslug said:
Didn't they discuss they were going to reduce the amount of dmg gem rocks take?

I can kinda understand the loss in value of gem mines (all of them now, not just Shilo)

But I kinda agree with Rikornak, I don't see much value in changing them.
With the number of geodes you get, yeah gem rocks are almost a waste.

The only advantage of a gem rock is the better likelihood of getting the low-mid tier gems (for things like Legend's Quest). But given that gems still have the same problem as ore/bar drops pre-M/S rework (on monster drop tables), if you want gems: go do slayer tasks.
Lesser-Black Demons have an ok drop rate of Saph-Ruby
Gargoyles for Emerald and Rubies
Abyssal Demons for Ruby and Diamond
Gemstone Dragons

Not the only sources, but you get the idea.

And now it becomes a question of which is simply faster for you:
Slayer?
or mining higher tier rocks for a few days and then opening all the geodes?


If that's how you feel perhaps the answer is to remove Sedimentary and Igneous geode drops from normal ore veins, drastically reduce the hp of all gem rocks, and move Metamorphic geodes to gem rocks with an independant 0.5% chance of obtaining it (1% with Ring of Fortune) instead of a 1% (2%) chance of replacing an Igneous geode.

11-Feb-2019 10:08:03

Rikornak
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 5,363Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
777havoc said:


If that's how you feel perhaps the answer is to remove Sedimentary and Igneous geode drops from normal ore veins, drastically reduce the hp of all gem rocks, and move Metamorphic geodes to gem rocks with an independant 0.5% chance of obtaining it (1% with Ring of Fortune) instead of a 1% (2%) chance of replacing an Igneous geode.


First: you never had to rely on gem rocks to obtain gems.

Second: I don't want to see a nice side loot of regular rocks being removed to have gem rocks not just as broken. Besides - it would become a massive f2p balancing issue, since those only have access to gem rocks via the al kharid dungeon - they rely on those geodes.

Third: I guess we can agree that it wouldn't hurt to significantly reduce the time required to mine a gem rock. Maybe even with revamping the kinds of gems awarded once again. And maybe having those grant the advantages core rocks have as well: Geodes and rockertunities.

According to the patch notes the hit points of gem rocks are being reduced.

I am honest - if the choice has to be either breaking core or niche rocks - I say - rather do this to the niche ones.
Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

11-Feb-2019 10:35:01 - Last edited on 11-Feb-2019 10:38:24 by Rikornak

777havoc
Dec Member 2018

777havoc

Posts: 989Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Jagex broke them by adding geodes to the game to begin with. Back when you could mine the occasional gem, it was around 1-2 gems per 5 inventories where as now you get around 10 geodes per inventory full. Gem rocks went from mining instantly to taking ages to mine thus theres a better gem ratio from mining normal ores than gem rocks, it is broken and NEEDS fixed.

11-Feb-2019 10:44:39

777havoc
Dec Member 2018

777havoc

Posts: 989Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
These are the current stats:

Common: HP 500, Hardness 0
Uncommon: HP 1,000, Hardness 15
Precious: HP 3,000, Hardness 50 (Necrite is HP 1,300, Hardness 65)
Rare: HP 6,000, Hardness 105
Prifddinas: 10,000, Hardness 140 (Animica is HP 2,000. Hardness 235)

As you can see, gem rocks have far too much hp and don't even get Rockertunities, IT IS BROKEN.

11-Feb-2019 10:57:09

Rikornak
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 5,363Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
777havoc said:
Jagex broke them by adding geodes to the game to begin with. Back when you could mine the occasional gem, it was around 1-2 gems per 5 inventories where as now you get around 10 geodes per inventory full. Gem rocks went from mining instantly to taking ages to mine thus theres a better gem ratio from mining normal ores than gem rocks, it is broken and NEEDS fixed.


The comparison doesn't work at all - okay mostly not. Half of the geodes are a single spirit shard. So you can already cut down those 10 geodes per inventory to 5.

Second - due to the ore box you have of course a way bigger inventory available - 28 slots vs. 147 - of course you will have more geodes now than gems before, it's 5 % per ore mined after all. The only direct gem booster pre-rework was the amulet of glory, that gemfinding scrimshaw and luck - those two along tons of other effects had been converted to geode boosters. Luck funily only increases the chance to convert igneous to metamorphics.

Third: The remaining gems from your geodes aren't solely sapphires and higher as they were before, they include a mix of semi precious ones as well - eating up roughly another 40 % of the remainder for sedimentaries.

777havoc said:
These are the current stats:

Common: HP 500, Hardness 0
Uncommon: HP 1,000, Hardness 15
Precious: HP 3,000, Hardness 50 (Necrite is HP 1,300, Hardness 65)
Rare: HP 6,000, Hardness 105
Prifddinas: 10,000, Hardness 140 (Animica is HP 2,000. Hardness 235)

As you can see, gem rocks have far too much hp and don't even get Rockertunities, IT IS BROKEN.


That's the old values - prif only has 1150 health since the update, didn't bother to check the others. It's super quick now, I guess no further changes are needed actually.
Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

11-Feb-2019 15:06:09 - Last edited on 11-Feb-2019 15:09:36 by Rikornak

777havoc
Dec Member 2018

777havoc

Posts: 989Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Your post only mentions something that happened a few days ago, I posted this 2 weeks ago. I was planning to update it, thanking Jagex, but, they ONLY changed the stats for Prif rocks, no other gem rocks got love
(that plus the Breezy scandal I was planning to wait and see how things turned out before commenting)

Jagex posted that they updated all gem rocks, yet only prif was changed, I personally tested them all after I saw prif got lowered and again just now, but, if you don't wanna take my world for it, take a look at my screenshots













That aside, the main reason I created this post to begin with was because the mining rework rendered the underground gem mine obsolete. what's the point of more gem rocks of the same exact quality when they never deplete now? There is none. The update took all the benefit out of Hard Shilo tasks. Gem rocks in general is the turn the topic took when others such as yourself kept commenting that they wanted to write gem rocks in general off as a loss.

17-Feb-2019 22:00:30 - Last edited on 17-Feb-2019 22:07:55 by 777havoc

Rikornak
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 5,363Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Your last post certainly already was post update, thus my reaction to it.

The funny thing is: The M&S rework actually did nothing to the underground mine, since it always had the very same gems as the ones above ground - and don't tell mell it would've be too hard to find an empty world to use it non-stop. Or worst case: Having to hop between two worlds.

I can't speak for the other gem rocks, so I don't know if replacing the rocks underground by the next tier would achieve much (both questioning viablity to use them in the first place as well as the fact you've got them at other places), but I'd actually support it. But no matter what: The prif gems are great now, even with that onyx hotfix nerf that hit them just one day later.

As an unrelated note: The karamja tasks need a full rework in terms of rewards since it sucks to no matter what task list you want to compare it (well maybe not to the wilderness one, but only if you're not up to entering the wilderness).
Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

18-Feb-2019 05:42:58 - Last edited on 18-Feb-2019 05:46:19 by Rikornak

777havoc
Dec Member 2018

777havoc

Posts: 989Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Rikornak said:
Your last post certainly already was post update, thus my reaction to it.

The update didn't hit till several hours after that post, at that time there was no knowledge it was coming, that's how Jagex is with most updates.

Rikornak said:
The funny thing is: The M&S rework actually did nothing to the underground mine, since it always had the very same gems as the ones above ground - and don't tell mell it would've be too hard to find an empty world to use it non-stop. Or worst case: Having to hop between two worlds.

"The M&S rework actually did nothing to the underground mine, since it always had the very same gems as the ones above ground" Gibberish talk is gibberish. I'm starting to wonder if you're just a troll. The very fact that the gem rocks are the same as pre-rework IS the problem

Rikornak said:
I can't speak for the other gem rocks, so I don't know if replacing the rocks underground by the next tier would achieve much (both questioning viablity to use them in the first place as well as the fact you've got them at other places), but I'd actually support it. But no matter what: The prif gems are great now, even with that onyx hotfix nerf that hit them just one day later.

Of course you can't speak for them because you never bothered looking into them, the only reason you're here is to piss on my post. As for the priff gems, they got patched about 12 hours after the update, not a full day.

Rikornak said:
As an unrelated note: The karamja tasks need a full rework in terms of rewards since it sucks to no matter what task list you want to compare it (well maybe not to the wilderness one, but only if you're not up to entering the wilderness).

In the past it was good, this happened because Jagex applied an update without analyzing everything it would break.

18-Feb-2019 09:22:29

Rikornak
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 5,363Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
My post mentioning the lowering of the gem rock HP (as a pure reference to the patch notes) was before you drew the pre-update numbers. So if anything it was merely a few minutes before the update hit - certainly not hours - patch notes are not available hours before the update hit. Hours afterwards I delivered actual numbers for the prif rock, but didn't checked on the other ones since I simply assumed they were changed likewise.

And honestly - your reasoning is extremely flawed (albeit I even acknowledged your basic point in general, just questioning the usefulness of it): You said the M&S rework made the shilo underground gem rocks obsolete - but what the hell was broken WITH the rework when the mine had the very same rocks above and below ground before and after the rework? If anything it was already broken BEFORE the rework. You know - since stuff like kal'gerion and prif rocks also already existed at that point.

And no - the karamja task rewards are mostly lacking, that isn't solely due to the fact that a single reward was replaced by the exact same equivalent it had pre rework. You act like having those additional rocks to mine was a relevant unlock in the first place.

Fine - I assumed they lowered the other rocks HP as well - and to be honest - if it wasn't an oversight they just should apply the same factor to the other rocks.

It doesn't matter if it was 12 hours, a day or whatever - they reacted quickly since they accidentaly buffed the thing into the polar opposite. And it doesn't change anything on my statement: That one specific rock is great now. Leaves four more to apply a change they mentioned in their last patch notes, huh?
Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

18-Feb-2019 09:47:27 - Last edited on 18-Feb-2019 10:05:22 by Rikornak

Rikornak
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 5,363Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The lesser gem rocks are fixed now: 50/140/380 hp. The rare one was reduced to 1300, but is obviously still broken since the prif one needs less.

But - checking one of your earlier arguments - since there are no suqah in the lunar mine, it wouldn't really be an advantage for the shilo one.
Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

18-Feb-2019 11:53:12 - Last edited on 18-Feb-2019 11:55:28 by Rikornak

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