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Combat integrity - thoughts

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GoodáNap
Dec Gold Premier Club Member 2005

GoodáNap

Posts: 1,390Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Dear Jagex,
first of all let me say that I like the noble intentions that the word "integrity" is able to add to the topic of combat.
This also means that, looked on the other way round, proposed changes will aim to ensure to keep dishonesty, dishonor and impropriety to the lowest possible level.

Let's start analyzing which are the achievements with telos that you would like to address.
1) Killing telos once in order to get reaper title. DTDs already doesn't give the kill, so no differences here
2) Killing telos up to 100 times (6 achievements overall). Well, if someone is able to kill telos once (at 0% enrage) it is likely he/she can kill telos 100 times. So no DTDs needed.
3) Killing telos at 100% enrage is a trim req. Many people used DTDs to get this kill. Here, the removal of DTD will ensure that achievement is really earned.
4) Stuffed with anima and coursing through you achievement can be quite easily earned by someone that is able to kill telos at 100% enrage, therefore DTDs are not used here
5) The warden title (500% enrage) cannot be unlocked using DTD. So it's pointless using here
6) Increasing enrage up to 1000%. This might represent the real issue because the removal of immortality chance on p5 might be an obstacle to get the achievement "telos if you are angry VI". In addition to the 100% enrage, this is the achievement where players are using DTDs most frequently.

Reading though social media, the current proposal is that the use of DTD will not allow the increase of enrage, but this is an issue only for points 3 and 6 above.

In my opinion, the real issue is related to keep the loot related streak, which is the reason why the vast majority of pvmers use DTDs (I would say 100 vs 1 using DTDs to complete achievements).
Actually, the proposed change (obtain the loot and keep the streak without increasing enrage) is something that will be in favour of pvmers (see post below for explaination)

02-Apr-2019 17:56:21

GoodáNap
Dec Gold Premier Club Member 2005

GoodáNap

Posts: 1,390Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
It is long time that the RS community says that there is no reason to get loot or maintain streak after using a DTDs on telos. I went back in google and there are posts on this topic since the month after telos release.
The entire loot system of telos is based on the ability to keep killing him on higher enrages. Why DTDs should allow to keep the streak? This is valid at any point, but let's consider a particular case.
Just consider someone streaking 1 to 999%. Considering a median increase of 12,5% enrage that streak will be around 80 to 90 kills. At that enrage chances of uniques will be around 1 on 22 kills. Also, previous streak might already have granted 1 or 2 uniques.
With the proposed changes (so far), using a DTD at that enrage will allow to keep the loot while not increasing the enrage to 1000%, where the fight becomes quite more difficult, due to being unable to use immortality.
So, theoretically, with the proposed change someone could get 1, 2, 3, or even more uniques while keeping killing telos at 999%, with risks related to enrage increase that become non-existant. This is another possible "cheat" that should be addressed with the combat integrity changes.

Therefore, in my opinion, and considering the noble reasons behind combat integrity itself, the only way to make changes to DTDs while used on telos would be forcing the player to exit the streak or, alternatively, remove completely the chance to use them at telos.

This would be the ideal change. No benefits for those trying to get achievements with DTDs, but also no (additional) benefits for those using darts for profit in game (and we are talking about billions of gps).
Alternatively, sic stantibus rebus, maintaining the status quo would be the best solution

Let me just say again that I really appreciate Jagex efforts towards combat integrity. I just would like to suggest that the remedy should not be worst than the diseaseů

With my best regards,
Nap

02-Apr-2019 17:56:30 - Last edited on 02-Apr-2019 18:30:50 by GoodáNap

GoodáNap
Dec Gold Premier Club Member 2005

GoodáNap

Posts: 1,390Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Just to sum up.

Only a very tiny percentage of players uses DTDs for achievements compared to those pvmers that keep a DTD in inventory to save the streak (let's say 1 on 100, or even more).
So, the real issue, raised years ago, should be preventing pvmers to keep the streak while using DTDs.
However, the proposed changes (as it can be read in twitter and reddit) aim to punish the tiny percentage of players that are using DTDs to get achievements (mainly 100% and 1000% enrage). I personally agree that this is a good choice, but the real issue of DTDs is the streak, and it seems that Jagex doesn't want to address it (maybe because the vast majority of pvmers will harshly riot against that). Infact, the current solution said in twitter by a JMod would be: DTDs will allow to save streak and keep loot but enrage will not raise.

So, in order to have a real "integrity" during telos fight, DTDs shouldn't be used by anyone. In addition, the current proposal will favour the pvmers much more than the current situation, which is against the concept of integrity.

As said in previous, this kind of proposed remedy appears to be worst than the disease (Cit.: Nietzsche) and it shouldn't be called "combat integrity"

02-Apr-2019 17:56:54 - Last edited on 03-Apr-2019 08:47:31 by GoodáNap

CuteáBrat
Nov Gold Premier Club Member 2017

CuteáBrat

Posts: 97Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
And if elitist whiny pvm'rs didnt cry over every lil title /achievement/boss it wouldnt matter if dtd were in the game at all, but ofc you cry and jagex runs to please you give us a f'n break Princess of World 98 =p~

02-Apr-2019 23:54:57

AáVitalis
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2015

AáVitalis

Posts: 1,073Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
CuteáBrat said:
And if elitist whiny pvm'rs didnt cry over every lil title /achievement/boss it wouldnt matter if dtd were in the game at all, but ofc you cry and jagex runs to please you give us a f'n break


And if moronic whiny skillers didn't cry over having to actually kill a boss to get loot it wouldn't matter if DTDs weren't in the game at all, but of course you cry and jagex runs to give you your bottle, give us a fucking break.


Also @OP, you're entirely missing the reason most people brought darts to Telos. Nobody gives a damn about the achievements and those who do can usually do them without darts. People use darts for two things, one to make pushing enrage easier, and two to save killstreaks they otherwise would have lost. As far as I'm concerned having an instant get-out-of-jail-free card that prevents you from ever losing your streak is unbalanced and should be addressed (as it has been). The only issue here is that it took them so long to address it.

The truth is you're the weak, and I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin'. I'm tryin' real hard to be the shepherd.

03-Apr-2019 02:42:53

scousy
Jun Member 2019

scousy

Posts: 1,279Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
CuteáBrat said:
And if elitist whiny pvm'rs didnt cry over every lil title /achievement/boss it wouldnt matter if dtd were in the game at all, but ofc you cry and jagex runs to please you give us a f'n break



didn't you complain pvm was getting too many updates to benefit it? Well this is something that will be taken away from pvmers.

03-Apr-2019 03:27:16

CuteáBrat
Nov Gold Premier Club Member 2017

CuteáBrat

Posts: 97Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
scousy said:
CuteáBrat said:
And if elitist whiny pvm'rs didnt cry over every lil title /achievement/boss it wouldnt matter if dtd were in the game at all, but ofc you cry and jagex runs to please you give us a f'n break



didn't you complain pvm was getting too many updates to benefit it? Well this is something that will be taken away from pvmers.


Yes I did and as last several updates show they still are, and the only reason dtd's are being changed is pvm'r whining so they are getting their way once again SHOCKER
Princess of World 98 =p~

03-Apr-2019 06:57:27

CuteáBrat
Nov Gold Premier Club Member 2017

CuteáBrat

Posts: 97Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
AáVitalis said:
CuteáBrat said:
And if elitist whiny pvm'rs didnt cry over every lil title /achievement/boss it wouldnt matter if dtd were in the game at all, but ofc you cry and jagex runs to please you give us a f'n break


And if moronic whiny skillers didn't cry over having to actually kill a boss to get loot it wouldn't matter if DTDs weren't in the game at all, but of course you cry and jagex runs to give you your bottle, give us a fucking break.


Also @OP, you're entirely missing the reason most people brought darts to Telos. Nobody gives a damn about the achievements and those who do can usually do them without darts. People use darts for two things, one to make pushing enrage easier, and two to save killstreaks they otherwise would have lost. As far as I'm concerned having an instant get-out-of-jail-free card that prevents you from ever losing your streak is unbalanced and should be addressed (as it has been). The only issue here is that it took them so long to address it.


why would a skiller care about loot from 1 dtd most kill it for reaper kc and move on.
Princess of World 98 =p~

03-Apr-2019 06:59:25

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