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Hati & Sköll MTX?!

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Blackwing

Blackwing

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So from today's news post:

Original message details are unavailable.
Valkyrie's Return!
Hati, Skoll & Fenrir are back! In a revamp of the yearly event you've come to expect, assist Eir in summoning her Valkyrie companions!

Old powers are stirring in Gielinor, Fenrir, Hati and Skoll have returned to roam the land once more and the fallen heroes of Valhalla grow restless. Eir believes the End of Things is coming sooner than expected and that it’s time for the Valkyries to reunite and prepare for the battles ahead.

Gather Valkyrie feathers through skilling, combat, daily challenges and defeating the winter wolves and return them to Eir to help her summon her companions in exchange for legendary rewards such as a Tiny Valkyrie Bobblehead, or a bunch of Jormungand weapons plus an additional cape!

Runecoins can be spent to directly buy the currency, additionally there is no limit on the amount of currency a player can earn a day!


This event will run until Monday the 11th of Feburary.

Is this really what we're going to do now with one of the only temporary events that had more depth to it than just afking for exp; monetizing it on top of membership subscription?

Please tell me that the runecoin part was a mistake and that the event isn't just another MTX event now. :(
The Runescape Witcher
|| Arclight for demons | Ghrazi rapier for humans and monsters

21-Jan-2019 11:13:54

Blackwing

Blackwing

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Jolter said:
Even tho people feel like flaming you in your reaction on the recent game update, I agree with you. I can't even remember the events we've had in the past but they are all build on the same core. It starts to feel like Assassins Creed games where we are excited for a few seconds and then just realize 90% is recycled.

MTX I don't really care about tbh. If it brings a bit more cash in the locker for Jagex. They need to make money it's a business. Without all that I don't even think RuneScape would still excist.

I just want to see quality over quantity.. that's not happening atm.

Gonna try to keep this short and list a few things:

1. Idk about AC as I haven't really played it enough to say one way or another, but indeed, that's the kind of reaction I get when I see the "mold" of the event sticking out like a sore thumb.

2. Jagex needs to make money, yes, but they don't need any of the MTX money to be profitable; search up their financial documents online as well as other posts explaining them if you want to know more.

3. Even if a certain MTX doesn't bother you, the gaming industry as well as Jagex have shown that they'll just keep pushing it harder and harder until you are bothered. They get progressively worse; next year this whole event might be extra monetized, not just the new stuff.

@Tenebri, I'd say the #3 above to you too.


Odeo said:
You can still kill the wolves for the BXP and some cosmetics.


But yes, i dissagree wholehearthedly they blatantly added mtx to it, be extremely vague about the event in general and not tell people they can still get the bonus exp.

It appears so, yeah, but since Jagex loves to misinterpret statistics in cases like this (remember how they told us that SoF was "loved by many" because most people used their free spins?), simply earning some feathers might make them think that people are okay with the MTX. So eh...
The Runescape Witcher
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21-Jan-2019 11:40:36

Blackwing

Blackwing

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Aria Ventus said:
Oh and just to add,

instead of 10,000 currencies, we now need 20,000.

Any one whaling this will need to buy the large event pack not twice, but four times.

:/

Starting to feel like what happened with the bingo card promos; at first they were so easy that you could easily avoid buying keys, so Jagex had to make it harder to complete by earning.
The Runescape Witcher
|| Arclight for demons | Ghrazi rapier for humans and monsters

21-Jan-2019 11:56:51

Blackwing

Blackwing

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Applejuiceaj said:
When originally described in the Introduction to 2019 post, it sounded like a refresh of the annual wolf killing, polishing up some content and giving it some new flair while keeping the same overall theme, that the wolves return each year, perhaps with a little bit of Valkyrie lore in there. When I had read it then, I was looking forward to it.

And then I read the update post for this week, and my reaction was something along the lines of "oh, its this again." :|

Given how many lazy temporary events Jagex has produced, that's how I felt about it too: the winter event has been one of the most well done events, so that even after fixing the overall dailyscape issue
(if Jagex is going to do that anymore, they keep contradicting themselves so often that it's hard to tell anymore)
, the winter event is something that should definitely stay annual
(minus the new MTX part of course)
.

In retrospect, idk why I thought that Jagex wouldn't spread MTX to this event, since MTX is steadily spread to content where it doesn't exist yet, but hopefully they don't repeat that mistake next year and instead bring us back the version of the event that we love! > )
The Runescape Witcher
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23-Jan-2019 18:32:24

Blackwing

Blackwing

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777havoc said:
@BLACKWING
You can easily complete it without paying so much as a dime, you get the currency rather fast from killing and skilling (thought the fact that the MTX option is even there, is not a good thing and symbolizes many bad things to come)

MTX aren't a means of charity; sometimes you might be able to earn the MTX rewards with enough grinding, and people who have plenty of free time to spent on playing might even feel like it's easy enough, but not everyone is able or willing to complete the grind, and those are the people the MTX are designed to take an advantage of.

So really, even if an active player might think it's fine now and it couldn't get worse, it's not okay since poor game design was already practiced when making the current MTX event. But like you said, it'll likely just get even worse from here.


Daibhi said:
If you take a few days off from collecting these tokens enough times throughout these 20 days you'll quickly find yourself racing against time just to make up for lost time and then those 20k tokens will seem impossible. For those susceptible to it this will make them make rash decisions which, very conveniently, the option of buying the tokens are available meaning the people who are prone to giving in will give in.

Mhm, and this is why the traditional events in the past were better than the new copy-pasted format event spam: not only were they more interesting (like the wolves used to be before this year), and not only did they last quite a while so that you had more time to work with, but they were also possible to complete easily within just one day by largely everyone, because the events focused on fun over grinding.
The Runescape Witcher
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28-Jan-2019 04:37:20

Blackwing

Blackwing

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Rikornak said:
I mean wolves of course were so engaging before: Killing them once or twice to grab all drops (or just once if you got the cosmetics from one of the last years), trade spear for a helm or vice versa - and well: you're done with a three week long event. Basically what has changed in that aspect, except for you do no longer need to trade spear for helm or vice versa, compared to the former years?

No I don't think gathering x stuffies promotions are interesting, but you got actually a reason now to grab a few friends and re-kill the wolves: They grant you half of the feathers you'd need to farm on a day each day.

I don't claim that the wolves have been a major event in terms of engagement, but the engagement that was there, was actually fun; Sköll was my favorite, I used to race with others to chop the wood required for the bonfire, and then help others to kill him too. A good event is like that; it's rewarding enough to make you want to do it, but it can still be fully completed with ease even on the very last day, and you can still go back to helping others if you want. At any time, you can just go back to regular game content, without feeling pressured to miss out on something, like temporary events usually do, especially when they have dailyscape attached to them.

Compare the wolves to something like the beach event; if you want to complete it in full, you have to go back day after day after day after day and do your daily chore. If you miss out on a day, it sets you back. And it's mostly just afking sandcastles.
The Runescape Witcher
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28-Jan-2019 11:06:39

Blackwing

Blackwing

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Fearce Deity said:
How does MTX in this event affect YOUR game?! It doesn't. People like to whine and cry like little infants over everything that's loosely related. The only thing I kinda understood was SoF/ TH but even then didn't really bother me.

The MTX doesn't fit into the theme of the event: the wolves are supposed to be a fun and short event, but the MTX adds a long grind to it. If the MTX rewards were available without MTX being involved, and if they were similarly implemented to the other event rewards, they'd be given out much sooner.

That's how MTX affects other content too: it typically adds a long grind that's time-limited, so you either have to play a lot within a short period of time, or pay up, unless you're fine with missing out on those rewards.
The Runescape Witcher
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28-Jan-2019 11:14:30

Blackwing

Blackwing

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Sheepstick said:
Isn't the MTX event completely different event itself?

Hati and Sköll are still the same event as previous years but the MTX event is just added on top of it without affecting Hati and Sköll event itself.

Or am I mistaken?

Technically you aren't mistaken, but if you really think about it, one could say that you are mistaken in another way that you don't seem to be aware of:

Imagine the MTX part of the event but without it being designed as a MTX; it could've been a similarly short and fun additional part of the non-MTX side of the event if designed properly, but due to Jagex's sensational greed, it's now just another boring grind. And some excuse it because the old parts of the event are still there, although that could easily change in the future as Jagex continues to test the waters.
The Runescape Witcher
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28-Jan-2019 22:01:06

Blackwing

Blackwing

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Ladyolake said:
Look, I usually not that happy with MTX but if you look at the time they
are giving people to gather the feathers its very doable.

Buying the feathers with Runecoins is optional. Not required to get the rewards.

I dont mind these kind of events just because most of the time you have plenty
of time to complete them. This time they gave us more time than usual.

Let's assume for the moment that it's "very doable" for pretty much every player out there; why does the option to buy the feathers exist then? If pretty much everyone can easily do it, the option being there to buy the feathers would cause more harm by being such a controversy, than any potential profit Jagex would make from it.

No, Jagex is many things, but stupidity is not one of their traits; they know very well that there are plenty of people who can't or don't want to commit to a long, boring grind, which is how they designed the MTX portion, so that they'd get even more money on top of membership sales (and other MTX sales). MTX options existing on something will always affect how that content is designed, because gaming companies aim to be profitable businesses, not optional charities where you can donate money if you want to.

A temporary event that's designed to be fun rather than to sell MTX is both a) long enough in the game so that the vast majority of active players (= players who log in at least a few times per month) have enough time to participate, and b) short enough to complete so that the event is still interesting (not a boring grind) and easy to complete even on the very last day of the event. That's how the basic wolf event has functioned, but not how the MTX portion does. If the MTX portion had been designed similarly, it would've functioned that way too.
The Runescape Witcher
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29-Jan-2019 07:58:51

Blackwing

Blackwing

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Evsmech said:
So what you are saying is that first off you concede to the fact Valkyries return is indeed separate from Skoll and Hati. However if we really were to twist and distort this fact we could draw some other conclusion perhaps. And then you go in to say that if we imagined Valkyries to be what it is but without the option to buy the feathers it would be fun. But because the “OPTION” to buy is in place, it transforms into and I quote, “just another boring grind” You do realize how silly that sounds right? I have long finished Valkyries return and have been opening mystery boxes and have not spent a single lick of real currency doing so. So what exactly is the problem?

There's no twisting or distorting, there's just the simple fact that some people have forgotten, probably from getting used to it (which is a dangerous sign), that the content that's nowadays sold as MTX, would've been designed with fun in mind instead in the past.

And no, when I'm talking about designing content with MTX in mind vs. fun in mind, the difference isn't just whether there's a button that allows you to purchase something with real money; the difference is designing the gameplay from the ground-up. By designing the event with MTX in mind, they obviously chose the "boring & long grind" path, as is often the case when it comes to MTX. Had they designed the event with fun in mind, those feathers might not have existed at all, and instead you'd have had to help the valkyrie in some other way, similar to killing Sköll for example: not a boring grind, but something short and interesting that can be easily completed even on the very last day of the event.
The Runescape Witcher
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29-Jan-2019 08:17:03

Blackwing

Blackwing

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777havoc said:
Niyah said:
3. The event being doable is irrelevant. The fact that most people can complete the event is irrelevant.

3.It IS relevant as you keep and many others keep acting like the only way to complete the event is MTX. The only people who will bother with it are those who are too lazy to farm the feathers themselves, I completed it in 5 days, it's not hard, you're just lazy.

It really isn't that relevant though, because even if you can complete that portion of the event without buying MTX, it doesn't change the fact that bad game design was used in developing that portion of the event. Given the theme of the event, instead of grinding for feathers, it's very likely that you would've had to do a much shorter and interesting task for the valkyrie, had fun been the goal when designing that portion of the event rather than selling MTX.

That's just how different forms of monetization work fundamentally too: with a subscription fee/one-time purchase of the game, in order to get people buy your game, you have to make your game fun to play. With MTX, you intentionally have to make parts of your game boring or outright impossible to complete, in order to get people to buy them. This event proved that once again by featuring a boring grind.
The Runescape Witcher
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30-Jan-2019 08:28:10

Blackwing

Blackwing

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Daibhi said:
Other than the whole psychological side of MTX that most people are oblivious to (otherwise it wouldn't work) I wouldn't be surprised if another reason why they increased the token count from 10k to 20k was to boost the number of people playing or at least drag it out for these 20 days.

Undoubtedly the amount required was increased due to the event lasting slightly longer than usual, but the reason why you can earn the currency is just that: to artificially inflate the player count, thanks to some players having to play more than they usually would due to time-limited grinding.

Why Jagex wants that could be that they're trying to encourage new players to try the game/buy membership when they see a higher player count. (I very much doubt that this is Jagex's primary reason for doing these events, but it's a bonus at least.) Or to be able to show prettier numbers to shareholders; having higher player count numbers to show to them is likely to keep them more satisfied, even if it doesn't really mean anything once you actually see how that number comes to be.

One major thing about these though is that while Jagex has been able to artificially inflate the player count with dxp weekends and other temporary event spam, said peaks and the average player count afterwards have steadily decreased. So perhaps they're now trying to increase the average player count rather than trying to get short term peaks.

Really wish they'd just stop with the temporary event spam though; if the game is well made, people want to voluntarily play it more, rather than having to force them to play under the notion that if they don't, they'll miss out on time-limited rewards. (Unless of course they succumb to the MTX, which is no better.)
The Runescape Witcher
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31-Jan-2019 17:20:38

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