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Simpler Potions in Bank Rework

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Porthead
Mar Member 2005

Porthead

Posts: 2,028Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Simplify potions under the new bank rework so that:
(1) Each type of potion takes up exactly one slot in the bank.
If I own 1000 doses of overload potion, the bank shows a
single overload potion with 1000 doses.


(2) Withdrawing a potion requires specifying (a) how many potions you would like and (b) how many doses (1-6) each potion should contain. The relevant vial/flask could be automatically filled from the bank (and returned as "empty" or "destroyed" when the player later deposits the potions).

Benefits:
* We would always have just one slot per potion in the bank (versus up to ten slots per potion with separate 4-dose and 6-dose vials).
* No more need to decant vials.
* Prettier bank, and more convenient potions.

17-Feb-2017 18:38:10

Bomba
Apr Member 2010

Bomba

Posts: 1,581Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
If you want to go ultra utility, make it an Herblore Bag (stored on character) instead. Interact-able only within bank healing areas, it would store all herblore-related items, empty flasks and vials, and total dosage of stored potions to be decanted automatically into those "vessels" as you withdraw them.

Might be easier than tying it to bank? I dunno.

17-Feb-2017 23:31:44

Jon Stryder
Jan Member 2006

Jon Stryder

Posts: 7,340Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
While I support the intention behind this suggestion, and can see the benefits, I not sure how it would actually work in practice. Especially when it comes to things like flasks which are destroyed once used.

With the current system, flasks/vials with different dose numbers are treated as different objects (which is why they are stored separately in the bank.) When you drink a dose, it applies the relevant buff and replaces that object with another containing one less dose. In the case where that was the final dose in a disposable flask, the object is simply removed. This is very simple for the software to implement and keep track of.

With your suggestion however, the computer would still need to keep track of how much 'life' each flask has before breaking, even though all the individual doses of potion are stored in a single stack. So what happens when you deposit a flask containing 1 dose, then withdraw 2 doses? Would you get a single flask containing 2 doses? Or 2 single dose flasks? What if you only had 1 flask with a life of 1 dose left? Where would that other flask come from, and what would the life of that flask be? Would there no longer be a link between the number of doses and the life of the flask, or a visual indication of how long a flask would last before breaking? Or could flasks effectively last indefinitely if you keep depositing them with one dose left and withdrawing them full?

These are technical and logistical questions that would have to be solved for this suggestion to be implemented otherwise the whole flask system becomes unbalanced and is thrown into disarray. However, with the bank rework introducing unlimited tabs and item placeholders, there is already much more scope to keep your bank organised. So I personally think solving these questions is going to represent too much work for too little gain to make this worthwhile.
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18-Feb-2017 19:05:26

Porthead
Mar Member 2005

Porthead

Posts: 2,028Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Every flask/vial you deposit in the bank would always be stored as its own "empty" object. Every potion dose deposited in the bank would be deposited as a dose of that potion.

Potions in your inventory would behave just as they do now. Inventory stays the same. Banks store doses of potions instead of vials/flasks. Vials/flasks are always stored in the bank in their "empty form".

19-Feb-2017 00:40:41

Sy Accursed
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2004

Sy Accursed

Posts: 1,092Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'd like to see this done, but potentially more as a reward space thing than just a feature.

IE you unlock the ability to make Glass, Robust Glass and Crystal Glass potion wells & add Juju wells as a reward at Habitat (maybe something like the catching all jadikno types in a week rewards a well after u have the outfit)

The type of well dictates the type of vial/flask the well draws from and you add a specific potion to each well then when banking potions all of that pot type goes to that well.

This could also solve the flask destroying themselves issue as the robust and crystal wells could store a variable regarding part-used vials and you could also potentially have a setting on them to say if the flask has less than X doses left on it sacrifice it.

19-Feb-2017 08:59:01 - Last edited on 19-Feb-2017 09:10:17 by Sy Accursed

Cb555
Apr Gold Premier Club Member 2011

Cb555

Posts: 3,433Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I think realistically if something like this is implemented it'd probably be 2 slots - 1 for normal vials and 1 for flasks. Combining the 2 complicates the implementation due to how flasks work compared to vials (comparatively high value, destroyed when flask becomes empty vs returning low value empty vial, cannot decant vials into flasks without new flasks, cannot decant flasks into vials without losing flasks, cannot mix&match potions in vials/flasks either)

At least then implementation is essentially just automatic decanting for the most part. You can already decant flasks as well so long as both potions are in flasks (if the amount made after decanting to X dose potions+remainder reduces the number of flasks used then it gets rid of the extra)

That said, even then it's not quite as simple as that - there would need to be a new placeholder item with 2 variables for each stack (in addition to potion/placeholder item type) in order to make it work - one being the number of doses, and the other being the number of flasks/vials added to the stack and available for use.

The number of vials/flasks would then just be how many you've put in minus how many you've taken out, and if at any point the number of remaining flasks/vials exceeds the number of doses (due to putting in low dose potions and taking out high dose ones) then the flasks/vials are destroyed/returned as empty (or maybe just destroyed in both cases - a reasonable price for the convenience, wouldn't you agree? You could always decant low dose potions to return vials as necessary).

In the case that you try to withdraw low dose potions such that ceil(remaining flask doses/6)>flasks available or ceil(remaining vial doses/4)>vials available then you either wouldn't be allowed to withdraw them and shown a message why or would be shown a warning prompt asking if you want to use empty flasks/vials in your bank to provide sufficient flasks/vials or something similar.

(cont. in next post)

23-Feb-2017 23:26:21 - Last edited on 23-Feb-2017 23:59:38 by Cb555

Cb555
Apr Gold Premier Club Member 2011

Cb555

Posts: 3,433Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
This would be necessary to prevent the scenario where you don't have enough flasks/vials to actually withdraw all of them (even as max dose potions+1 with the remainder if necessary) without the game creating flasks/vials out of nowhere.

As a single item it'd need doses in vials/doses in flasks/vials/flasks all stored as variables on the dummy/placeholder bank item, and the calculations would be largely the same to ensure you have sufficient vials/flasks for all doses and that excess flasks/vials are removed from the pile.
It couldn't just be doses/vials/flasks due to the fact that you can't decant a 4 dose vial and a 2 dose flask into a 6 dose flask without using a new flask - anything in a vial has to be moved to a flask 1st in order to be decanted into a flask, while anything in a flask can be decanted into a vial, but only at the loss of the flask it is in. Allowing this to happen by using only 3 variables would severely affect the balance and drastically reduce the number of flasks leaving the game (as you could continuously top up the same flask).

As such it'd be best to just keep vial/flask potions separate to keep the UI clearer - up to 10 (or 4 if you use decanters) down to 2 at all times per potion type would still be a significant improvement in bank space usage and would also help to keep taking potions out simpler (withdraw-x y dose at most instead of withdraw-x y dose z type - though most will only want 1/6 dose flasks, and 1/3/4 dose vials anyway - 1 dose potions only being for when you only need 1 dose before you can return to the bank and prefer the inventory space).
Potions that require crystal vials will only have 1 stack (so up to 6 (2 using decanters) down to 1) of course.

I'm torn on whether or not this would warrant being a reward from a quest or something or should just be taken as an amazing QoL update tbh. I certainly wouldn't mind having to do something (within reason) in order to unlock it as a space saving feature.

23-Feb-2017 23:38:00 - Last edited on 24-Feb-2017 00:00:30 by Cb555

Cb555
Apr Gold Premier Club Member 2011

Cb555

Posts: 3,433Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The only remaining issue then is storing the data - will the bank data cope with the extra variable it has to store (dose count&vial or flask count vs only amount) in the single bank slot in the new bank interface system? This is another reason why it's best to keep vials/flasks separate - 1 extra is a lot easier to fit in than 3 extra when it normally only holds 1 beyond the item ID for most stackable items to say the least, especially as the bank has to account for a large/variable number of such items so every slot will probably have to be able to hold that extra variable - a significant boost in data storage in practice.

If it does, the primary issues with implementation are solved and the rest is mostly about how they want to implement, what to call the placeholder item and what icon, etc. If it doesn't (and this is likely where the idea's real issues with implementation arise) then that's the hurdle that needs dealing with somehow before this can be implemented, and it's not likely to be an easy one to get past considering the significant spike in bank data size on the server it would likely cause if the data can't handle it already.

There are many creative ways to store 2 numbers as one, but they also drastically reduce the max count for both figures when keeping the max value (technical limit determined by allocate memory/space) of the stored number the same - is that something players would be willing to accept for the convenience? The dev team may come up with a better solution if they decide to implement this, but there are likely to be downsides somewhere in the implementation - either on data storage costs for jagex or reduced max count for bank storage for players.

24-Feb-2017 00:18:03 - Last edited on 24-Feb-2017 00:27:38 by Cb555

Porthead
Mar Member 2005

Porthead

Posts: 2,028Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Suppose vials and flasks are always stored as empty objects in the bank.

Suppose all vials are stored in a single stack. If I have 1000 vials in the bank, then it shows one stack with 1000 empty vials. Withdrawing a vial-potion removes one empty vial from bank. Depositing a potion returns one empty vial to bank.

Suppose all flasks are stored in a single stack. This stack is associated with a maximum number of doses. For example, I craft 1000 new six dose flasks and deposit them in the bank. Bank shows a single stack of flasks with 6000 doses. Removing an X dose flask-potion removes X "doses" from the stack of bank flasks. Depositing a Y dose flask-potion adds Y "doses" the stack of bank flasks.

This has the added benefit that we never wind up with half-filled flasks that are somewhat useless. (Who wants to take a 2 dose flask with them on their next trip?)

01-Mar-2017 21:31:24

syc0cys

syc0cys

Posts: 467Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Wouldn't it just be simpler to allow decanting of all/selected potion and vial types right in the bank?

Not really any less of a convenience thing than the diango plan who is already standing right next to a bank anyhow.

02-Mar-2017 15:40:27

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