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RiDaku
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2012

RiDaku

Posts: 5,488Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The dragon was obtained legitimately and through the course of a long public plotline where anybody could have been the one to obtain the dragon, and they could have chosen to either kill it, or keep it.

The final topic is whether or not it's morally right, as a roleplayer, to actually use a domesticated adult dragon in roleplay. My answer to that is, why wouldn't it be? Used responsibly, it can be an awesome driver of a plotline, it's a really awesome way to travel and it overall just adds badass points to the character that controls it. Before any arguments of "inappropriate use" comes up, I haven't actually used the dragon in any offensive manner. There's been no case of it coming around and incinerating any opposition, there's been no examples where I just have it land in the middle of a scene and completely take over. However, there is currently, right now as I'm typing this, a plot going on in Asgarnia where the Duchess of Sarim is using it as part of a driving reason to start a cold-war against the crown. Civilians are uneasy, both at just the presence of it and the name of the beast (also Skraegorn), since it reminds them of the god war (2: electric boogaloo).

The use of this dragon IC is moderately supported by the lore and mechanics of the game, the method in which I obtained my dragon is fair, legitimate and came from sidetracking the plot (which means the whole thing wasn't built around giving a dragon to an rper), and the actual use of it is for driving conflict, providing a baseline for rumors and gossip, and because it's fucking cool.

Any further concerns about it, please PM me in game, I'd be more than happy to talk to you about it, WardenofW42!
The True Asgarnia -
Maxed 10/15/2018

Want to Role-Play? Click Here!

25-Feb-2019 18:58:44 - Last edited on 25-Feb-2019 19:06:03 by RiDaku

Freya Sigurd

Freya Sigurd

Posts: 17Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Ah, here it is. The thing I was looking for.

I believe, perhaps to a fault, that dragons shouldn't be used. And this is going to sound complicated.

It's not because of what they represent, but rather of representation.

Dragon represent power. Authority. Dominion over land, myth, and sky. There is a reason why dragons were feared, and often turned to represent authority in many kingdoms, both in ages past and presence. Perhaps even the future, but scrying is for mages.

My issue with it is that it is incredibly hard to represent it outside of anything but narrative, background highlight. And because of this, the common player has an hard time understanding, or in many cases over-representing it in their imagination. And that is a powerful tool. And as many masters have said, a tool is not a weapon. It is the intent behind it.

So, to wrap this back together, you here have a powerful tool, but you don't have the intent behind the tool. Do you intent to keep the dragon permanently? To make it go rampant, destroying the White Castle? Have a troupe of player-freelancers group up and storm the location where the Black Dragon fled, and lead them to an eventual hurrah 'The beast is dead! Long live the King!', followed with "HEY WAIT JUST A MINUTE HE JUST PARKED THE DRAGON THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE!", and we go back into a circle of blame-game with politics, intrigue, and deception.

Or is the intent something else? The intent is the unknown, and the unknown breeds fear. But we can fight the fear, we have been fighting fear since time immemorial. I recommend excitement. Get excited over the unknown, as the unknown has the potential to either make you go "oh my Zaros! That was AMAZING!", or "We told you so." So you both win*/win in either case.

Thanks for reading!

* = Depending on if you're a follower of the silent god. If not, then you've lost.

25-Feb-2019 22:50:18

Ashtorette
Aug Member 2018

Ashtorette

Posts: 27Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I find dragons and, really, any power gimmick, to be just that; A gimmick. It's backdrop and flash to make a plot line look more interesting. It's nothing but a prop for RP. See, over the years of RP, across so many different settings and platforms, I've had mages just cast a spell, and because it's something that just "affects" your character's personal space, you're pretty much doomed.

A dragon? With melee or ranged attack? That I could tangibly measure and react to? On even the barest level of physical probability? No problem! I'll take it. I've personally dealt with too many magic-based characters and they all come out swingin' with that classic, "Well unless you have the right magic you just can't do anything!" post. So I have no concerns about dragons. Or hey? Even powerful mages.

The sad fact of the matter is, magic has become a crutch because it follows absolutely no physical logic in RP. Yes, the mechanics of the game are balanced, as best as they can be, but in RP? Mages. Mages, mages, everywhere. Your empire was backed by magic. You are a mage. Your friends are mages. You are surrounded by magic.

But one does not have to engage with such magical tyrants. They rule a land. So destroy the land. All it takes to bring a kingdom to its knees? Is to mangle its assets. Burn every crop. Murder every peasant. Sew chaos and discord until the realm is nothing more than a scorched, barren wasteland. And all it takes is a little tinder. Some plague-infested corpses. Some lawless pirates. Breeding and encouraging the exploding goblin population to engage in banditry. It's called total war.

25-Feb-2019 23:14:55

RiDaku
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2012

RiDaku

Posts: 5,488Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I think it's very bold to say that I don't have intent behind the tool. I mean, just from the various posts Ashtorette has made in reference to it, the intent behind the tool (or one of the intents) is entirely under way. It's one of the causes of a cold war going on between my character and his appointed duchess. It's causing unrest in the city, it's a talking point and something that adds some great flavor to descriptions of the city. However, that power that a dragon represents? The domination? That's kind of the whole point of it being shown off in such a flashy way. It gives characters (And, if they feel like respecting it), the players themselves something to really compare the character to. Instead of them standing alone and saying, themselves, "hey look i'm dangerous", you now have them standing beside a dragon, and now you yourself can go "hey look he's dangerous".

It's an addition to the narrative of the kingdom, it's an addition to the controlling character's accomplishments, and most importantly? It's something to respond to in-character. Be they (the king) a hero, villain, tyrant or saint, they have a dragon. How does your character feel about that, how does your character react to this knowledge? There's too much of a focus on the OOC of it here.

(I also have a pet in-game to represent it, so there's some visual medium as well, instead of me constantly trying to describe what it looks like, where it is, etc etc. In case that was a concern in your post.)
The True Asgarnia -
Maxed 10/15/2018

Want to Role-Play? Click Here!

25-Feb-2019 23:18:58

Freya Sigurd

Freya Sigurd

Posts: 17Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
RiDaku said:
I think it's very bold to say that I don't have intent behind the tool. I mean, just from the various posts Ashtorette has made in reference to it, the intent behind the tool (or one of the intents) is entirely under way. It's one of the causes of a cold war going on between my character and his appointed duchess. It's causing unrest in the city, it's a talking point and something that adds some great flavor to descriptions of the city. However, that power that a dragon represents? The domination? That's kind of the whole point of it being shown off in such a flashy way. It gives characters (And, if they feel like respecting it), the players themselves something to really compare the character to. Instead of them standing alone and saying, themselves, "hey look i'm dangerous", you now have them standing beside a dragon, and now you yourself can go "hey look he's dangerous".

It's an addition to the narrative of the kingdom, it's an addition to the controlling character's accomplishments, and most importantly? It's something to respond to in-character. Be they (the king) a hero, villain, tyrant or saint, they have a dragon. How does your character feel about that, how does your character react to this knowledge? There's too much of a focus on the OOC of it here.

(I also have a pet in-game to represent it, so there's some visual medium as well, instead of me constantly trying to describe what it looks like, where it is, etc etc. In case that was a concern in your post.)


Oh, no. I was never trying to imply you don't have any intent behind it. Heck, bringing it on the table, I fully expect and demand that you have intentions for it. Otherwise, that's just bad sportsmanship.

My approach to what your intentions are is from the perspective of someone who has no idea what is going on in-game or out of it, and people appear very, understandably to a point, angry.

(cont)

25-Feb-2019 23:27:12

Freya Sigurd

Freya Sigurd

Posts: 17Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
On a side note, I really like the reply system here. Much better than WoW.

And here I am going to attempt to explain something that I undoubtedly know you all know. But I still am going to do it.

The reason people usually get upset is because people don't know why you brought in the black dragon. They don't know the intent behind the powerful tool.

People work with based on what they know. And then they start to think either creatively, or from past experiences, how they expect things to turn out. This part is where OOC outrage comes into playing.

Because, up until this point I believe? At least for me. Up until this point, it was not written in clear, defined terms what the purpose of the dragon is. Or rather, the initial purpose of the dragon is. What comes in stage 2? 3? Will there even be a fourth stage? Will be kill the dragon? Will it kill the king?

The more questions we want to ask, the more questions we have to answer ourselves as those in control of the story don't want to spoil it. And given the environment W42 is in, the default answers will always be the harshest we can think off. I've already lived through this sort of environment, and it is not fun.

I'm perhaps kicking up too much drama about this dragon, I don't even know if there is any drama, aside from me just asking questions about it. I'm still learning how this community functions. But yes, I think inviting a Elite Black Knight into the White Castle would have been much more effective than a Black Dragon, but that's just me.

25-Feb-2019 23:34:38

Ashtorette
Aug Member 2018

Ashtorette

Posts: 27Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hate to tell you, Eeon, but most of the OOC outrage comes from the players' personal issues, completely unrelated to RP. I won't go into detail, as I feel that would be slander on some level, but you'll notice many posts were deleted, a few pages back, because instead of looking at anything my character was doing or saying, they complained about her pink hair and generally cute appearance, which is something intentionally cultivated to put foes at ease and throw suspicion. And it works a little too well. Everyone seems to think she (and I, by extension) are complete morons.

25-Feb-2019 23:47:51

Freya Sigurd

Freya Sigurd

Posts: 17Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Ashtorette said:
Hate to tell you, Eeon, but most of the OOC outrage comes from the players' personal issues, completely unrelated to RP. I won't go into detail, as I feel that would be slander on some level, but you'll notice many posts were deleted, a few pages back, because instead of looking at anything my character was doing or saying, they complained about her pink hair and generally cute appearance, which is something intentionally cultivated to put foes at ease and throw suspicion. And it works a little too well. Everyone seems to think she (and I, by extension) are complete morons.


Oh? Well, my biscuits! Saves me a lot of trouble trying to explain some paradoxes for my follow-up "Explaining with Eeon". But really, I was worried that were the case. But even still, I fully believe that once both parties have dropped the whole competitive nonsense that surrounds the community, people might be able to trust people that we all have good intentions. We all intent well. And by Zaros, this is the hill I will die on.

On secondary notes, I think pink hair looks rather stylish. Would have loved to meet your character! Outside appearance doesn't show who you are. One looking like a royal doesn't Feel like a royal for long. Every action is brought forth by good intentions.

25-Feb-2019 23:58:59

Vekon
Feb Member 2019

Vekon

Posts: 1,938Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
So... Is the dragon not also undead? I question why a place thought to be the seat of Saradomin's influence would allow ANY sort of undead creature, let alone a large, undead dragon, to perch atop his castle. It just looks bad, and it would be more than unsettling for the entire city.
KANDAR VICTA

Emperor Axel Vekon the Redeemer, of the Holy Kandarin Empire.

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HouseVekon

26-Feb-2019 01:00:35

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