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WardenOfW42
Feb Member 2019

WardenOfW42

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Vekon said:
So... Is the dragon not also undead? I question why a place thought to be the seat of Saradomin's influence would allow ANY sort of undead creature, let alone a large, undead dragon, to perch atop his castle. It just looks bad, and it would be more than unsettling for the entire city.


I think this guy gets it. Personal issues people have with this Asgarnia's leader, it is a holy city of the god Saradomin. Bringing in a king with an undead dragon seems like it could easily be concidered lorebreak.
The True Asgarnia, where the necromancy condoning wight king has an undead dragon. Dragonkin hate him.

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26-Feb-2019 08:19:05

RiDaku
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2012

RiDaku

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Ahhh, lorebreak.. I love that term when turned towards PoK's. Can I run some things by?

-Kandarin is currently, and for the longest of times i mean seriously I don't remember a time where there wasn't at least one person from this group maintaining the idea that they ran it, run by a secretly-zarosian family of extremely powerful battlemages with a fully-customized spellbook, with the most iconic being a purple version of the saradomin strike called "Blitzen" magic. Imagine Force Lightning. Additionally, they've been attempting a global conquest for a while. You know, like Ardougne is known to do in lore? All of this?

-The first recorded instances of Asgarnian PoK systems were lead by Zamorakians. Seriously, go to this page and look at it. Straight-up zamorakians, most of them Mahjarrat, and they came back around too. Multiple times.

-The Fremennik lands have been genocided more times than can reasonably be counted and it wound up becoming a meme.

-Just a few months ago, there was a Morytanian PoK that didn't have Vanescula Drakan at the very top of everything. The Drakan family has been the dominant, unshakeable powerhouse of Vyre civilization and despite only one known one remaining, the rule still applies.

Additionally, there is a previous example of someone trying long-term to play off the fact that Saradomin is sitting in the castle and basing the structure of their Asgarnian group off of it. That was called "The Hub" and the term "Hub" became an insult when levied against any faction, with the most common complaint being that "We shouldn't recognize the Gods actually being present in their locations because it stifles creative freedom with the regions."
The True Asgarnia -
Maxed 10/15/2018

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26-Feb-2019 08:31:14 - Last edited on 26-Feb-2019 08:38:10 by RiDaku

RiDaku
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2012

RiDaku

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The entire basis for player-owned kingdoms is lorebreak. It's also been the thing our community is based on. Forgive me for shirking that in the favor of exciting plot twists and challenges that people actually involved in my group are interested in, and like the idea of.

Oh, additionally, since I ran out of room in the previous post;

-The group currently controlling Kandarin, the Vekons, my first and most memorable experience with them was when I first joined w42, when they invaded Falador, sat their own dragon on top of the castle, and then used it to torch half the city and suppress any rebellions.

Honestly. I'm not doing anything new, and what I'm doing is the least questionable thing that's happened in the history of Asgarnia alone, nevermind the entire history of the community. The problem people have is that I'm the person doing it, and let me assure you it's not because I don't know how to write a story. But that's something to additionally discuss in-game, because it just leads in to more flamebait.

EDIT; My link in the above post didn't work.
https://rsroleplay.fandom.com/wiki/History_of_Falador
(I think Jagex gave an o-kay to us linking the RSRP wiki, if an f-mod says no then please just comment on it and I'll remove it the moment I see it. I'll be sleeping shortly.)
The True Asgarnia -
Maxed 10/15/2018

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26-Feb-2019 08:31:19 - Last edited on 26-Feb-2019 08:37:49 by RiDaku

WardenOfW42
Feb Member 2019

WardenOfW42

Posts: 52Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The whole idea of replacing the NPC's in charge makes perfect sense to me, we always did that. I get you got a group of people that are perfectly okay with it, like Ashtorette, but an undead adult dragon seems more like something that belongs in private plots or something as a bossfight. Or make it younger. When I was in Yanille, Eden Syvian had a hatchling dragon. It was small and didn't have any sort of role besides being a pet. When it grew too big it just left on its own. I think that would be better. I don't think the public groups are wanting to interact with someone who has an adult dragon under his control that is also undead.

Might be that I am from a different generation but adult dragons being tamed was always concidered very heavy lorebreak in my time. As was necromancy by the way! The fact that someone before you went there is no reason to go there yourself in my oppinion. We'd all be necromancers and mahjarrat if we didn't learn from past mistakes.
The True Asgarnia, where the necromancy condoning wight king has an undead dragon. Dragonkin hate him.

Want to actually Role-Play in-game? Click Here!

26-Feb-2019 08:54:36

RiDaku
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2012

RiDaku

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Of course it makes perfect sense, that's how you believe it should be done. Does it make it any less lore-break? Not in the slightest. It's just lorebreak you're willing to put up with because it helps you drive a story that you're interested in.

Necromancy being lorebreak? I'm not so sure about that one. I mean, I totally believe that it was considered lorebreak. But I also know that necromancers, zombies, skeletons, and the like have existed since the start of runescape, and that necromancy is just not a skill players can learn in rs3, not something that's not part of the game. There are whole wars and quests based around it.

I've also very in-detail explained the practice behind taming dragons, and continuing on that topic would just be repeating all of that. Whether or not it's undead is semantics - If what I said isn't enough to convince you that the presence and use of the dragon IC is fair, legitimate and interesting, then it being alive or undead is kind of pointless to bring up, right? You're going to disagree either way.

Additionally, please know that I'm not doing anything because it's been done in the past. I'm using the past as a point of reference, to show that such things have been done, and not only accepted but happily represented and supported, even now. For example, the Vekons are still around, still using their custom book, still run by a mortal man who's unreasonably strong for a public RP character, and yet....

Finally, whether or not things like rp'ing Mahjarrats was a mistake is a point of contention. I know that the yearly Rituals were a celebrated thing, and that there are a lot of things that are heavily restricted in ways that really just stifles the creative options and available assets of the game, almost cramming RSRP down in to generic medieval fantasy RP instead of the actual world of Runescape that it's set in.
The True Asgarnia -
Maxed 10/15/2018

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26-Feb-2019 09:20:36

WardenOfW42
Feb Member 2019

WardenOfW42

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Necromancy used to be a no-go for public and was only used in private plots back in my day. Don't know what people think of it now.

So if I understand correctly, the undead dragon is 'lore-break' if you look at the Jagex story, but it's hardly 'unreal' when you look at the W42 story? And if you are attacked, will you not use the dragon for a defense?

Edit: Final post about the dragon, sorry. Just want to understand the reasoning and everything.
The True Asgarnia, where the necromancy condoning wight king has an undead dragon. Dragonkin hate him.

Want to actually Role-Play in-game? Click Here!

26-Feb-2019 16:37:25 - Last edited on 26-Feb-2019 16:42:56 by WardenOfW42

Vekon
Feb Member 2019

Vekon

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WardenOfW42 said:
Vekon said:
So... Is the dragon not also undead? I question why a place thought to be the seat of Saradomin's influence would allow ANY sort of undead creature, let alone a large, undead dragon, to perch atop his castle. It just looks bad, and it would be more than unsettling for the entire city.


I think this guy gets it. Personal issues people have with this Asgarnia's leader, it is a holy city of the god Saradomin. Bringing in a king with an undead dragon seems like it could easily be concidered lorebreak.


I believe the king himself is also an creature of undeath. A wight, specifically. Crazy isn't it? As much "cool factor" as such a combination might have, it seems a bit out of place under the seat of a god of law, order, and good, with a shtick of smiting evil through white knights and paladins.

In the current age of RSRP, people tend to pick and choose what amount of lorebreaking is tolerable and okay for the sake of "plot", but confusion and disdain occur when different people have different opinions regarding that. RiDaku believes having an undead dragon under the nose of a god of good is okay, and his defense is generally "what about-.." followed by an example of something more or less similar. The dragon aligned with Kandarin during the attack on Falador was before I was really a member of the community, but I can tell you it wasn't an undead dragon, and it didn't happen while Saradomin was sitting there.

Though, as I said, some people may find that what RiDaku is doing to be perfectly fine, cool, and super badass. But others look at it as a lack of quality control, on a level of lorebreak that isn't acceptable for a PoK that is meant to be a part of and represent the public sphere.
KANDAR VICTA

Emperor Axel Vekon the Redeemer, of the Holy Kandarin Empire.

#
HouseVekon

26-Feb-2019 17:41:18 - Last edited on 26-Feb-2019 17:47:06 by Vekon

Vekon
Feb Member 2019

Vekon

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Original message details are unavailable.
secretly-zarosian family of extremely powerful battlemages with a fully-customized spellbook, with the most iconic being a purple version of the saradomin strike called "Blitzen" magic. Imagine Force Lightning.


"Zarosian Lightning" is 100% explicitly canonical. And it really isn't anything like force lightning.

The "fully customized" spellbook you mention is mostly kept behind closed doors, and even the majority of its components are, by lore, canonical. Summoning, necromancy, shadow magic, lightning magic, and perhaps the only one you could argue against being canon, light magic. But why would you do that? "~Sapientis de Lumine"
KANDAR VICTA

Emperor Axel Vekon the Redeemer, of the Holy Kandarin Empire.

#
HouseVekon

26-Feb-2019 17:55:46 - Last edited on 26-Feb-2019 17:56:22 by Vekon

RiDaku
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2012

RiDaku

Posts: 5,473Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Vekon said:
and even the majority of its components are, by lore, canonical.


See, I was about to answer Warden really politely and explain things further, but thanks for jumping in with subtle hostility - I don't believe at any point in this discussion I was insulting your RP group, only drawing comparisons. Sorry if you took offense to that, but I'm not really going to respond to the rest of your post because that offense really shows in a lot of it. Instead, I'll just answer with, every single thing I do, all of its components, have sources in the runescape canon, game mechanics, or other tidbits of lore. From my very first character all the way up until now, I've carefully been selecting examples of things happening from the lore of the game, or the lore of the books, and save for the PoK-community canon (which I've already mentioned is 100% lorebreak in its entirety, so anything relating to that is by-default lorebreak), I haven't gone outside the realm of runescape. Thank you for your contribution!

The discussion is now over. At this point it's reaching in to flamebait and subtle aggression, and I'm not looking for another two pages of hidden messages. Thank you.
The True Asgarnia -
Maxed 10/15/2018

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26-Feb-2019 18:19:57 - Last edited on 26-Feb-2019 18:20:47 by RiDaku

Ashtorette
Aug Member 2018

Ashtorette

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I don't understand. You seem to be complaining about the substance of an entire character and plot line, with the intention that, unless that character and this plot line cease, you will not join or acknowledge it. Which is fine. I have nothing against that, but at this point I see three things in RS lore that have been heavily referenced:

1: Dragons
2: Undead
3: Necromancy

And while your group may have made both of these a no-go, I fail to see how this is a lorebreak. Vampyres are also made no-go by many groups. I'm quite sure some players I've engaged with in Glorious Kandarin actually said this to me. Or told me this, or that, while perfectly within lore, is just not kosher for some reason or another. But you know what it takes to kill someone? Smashing their head in while they sleep.

Is a dragon OP? Are wights? Sure, why not. But you are, and I've said this before, and was promptly ignored, OP, Vekon. Your entire lineage is OP. Your entire group is littered with OP. Your family is OP, and not necessarily a lorebreak, now, is it? I'm glad we can agree on that. But the RP is not going to change. The players involved are not going to change. And the characters are not going to change. These three things, which you have taken issue with, are not changing. So the answer is a resounding no.

Please take any issues not related to current plots or characters involved in the kingdom to another thread.

26-Feb-2019 21:08:27

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