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Our Flawed RP Combat System

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Noctis Ryder

Noctis Ryder

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Hello there, and welcome to another one of "those" threads. Today's discussion: our current roleplay combat system and why it will never necessarily "work".

Have you been in one of those situations where you are dueling a fellow roleplayer, and what starts off as a simple exchange turns into Out-of-Character rage due to another player's misunderstanding?

How about this. Have you ever been in a situation where your character is automatically determined to be "inferior", just because your grammatical and spelling skills are not quite on par with your opponent?

And then we come to my favorite question. Have you ever experienced when your opponent claims that his character's strength, knowledge, or otherwise surpasses yours just because... he says so?

I reckon all of those questions would be answered with a resounding "YES NOCTIS OMG".

Roleplaying games such as D&D use very similar "systems" that we employ here on W42, but they also utilize a very important core element we lack... STATS.

Stats are the fundamentals for any roleplaying experience, whether that be single player games or roleplaying. Stats regulate the player's abilities, sizing them up to various different types of events or opponents. Without stats, there are no boundaries. No limits to what a character can and can not do. No limits to what a character can exploit upon others.

"But Noctis, how would you employ stats into W42?" you might ask. It's quite simple, really. Just like any roleplaying game, your character's experiences will ultimately dictate his abilities, added onto his race, culture, and the like. Obviously, some characters will have "higher" starting stats than others, but this could easily be balanced by spreading the stats out to match the different race's weaknesses/strengths.

Cont. on next page.....
Lord Commander of House Ryder
I
the Fallen One
I
Lover of Gingers


#HeilZaros

12-Jun-2016 03:03:35

Noctis Ryder

Noctis Ryder

Posts: 1,086Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
For instance: Say myself and a fellow roleplayer rp a human mage. Both of us have developed the character as a battlemage, and we have spent an equal amount of time developing him. By all intents and purposes, those characters should have the same potential to become equals in raw ability, yes?

With our current system, you have roleplayers who have developed said human mage for about 4 out-of-character years. But then, out of the blue, another roleplayer develops his own for only 3 months, and now, he's a god because.... he says so. No documented roleplay. No witnesses to any of his so called developments. Only his word.


Let us now talk about another topic: realism. Now, within the current system we use, fighting is extremely unrealistic. Fights are not drawn out afars, for the most part. In fact, real life sword fights were rarely ever longer than a few seconds. What was the reason for this?

Simple. Human fatigue, error, and skill. Fatigue is not a factor on W42. Neither is human error.

We certainly love to praise skill, though. In fact, we praise skill so much that our characters seem to almost /predict/ when his opponent makes a particular move of attack. Somehow, he's able to angle his sword in just the right way, parry with just the right timing, etc, at all times. He never misses a beat. He never trips over himself. He never fails the parry.

Roleplay combat simply can not account for this because it's up to the players to acknowledge their own limits. And why would you, when your opponent doesn't acknowledge theirs? I, personally, have witnessed many honest roleplay combatants lose their characters, simply because they were willing to acknowledge their own weaknesses while their opponent would not.

Cont. on next page....
Lord Commander of House Ryder
I
the Fallen One
I
Lover of Gingers


#HeilZaros

12-Jun-2016 03:03:45 - Last edited on 12-Jun-2016 03:18:23 by Noctis Ryder

Noctis Ryder

Noctis Ryder

Posts: 1,086Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'll be perfectly honest with you all. I can not come up with a better system. I don't have the time, nor the patience. In fact, I'm pretty guilty with some of the points I brought up, myself. However, I do think its important to understand the core reasons why roleplay combat, which could be a fun afar, turns into drama and needless bickering 90% of the time. Simply acknowledging that your character is NOT the main character in everyone else's story would do wonders in helping relations between fellow roleplayers.

All roleplayers, at their core, want to develop stories. Good stories do not have a hundred protagonists running around, attempting to steal the spot light. Good stories let characters breath and flesh them out. Roleplayers want to play with people who help expand their stories, instead of being forced to alter them to your will. Make an effort to be the side character. Allow other characters to triumph over yours. Then, when the time comes, reciprocate and allow the fallen to have a means to still develop.

We are all in this together, gents and ladies. There is no W42 without its players.
Lord Commander of House Ryder
I
the Fallen One
I
Lover of Gingers


#HeilZaros

12-Jun-2016 03:03:52 - Last edited on 12-Jun-2016 03:24:22 by Noctis Ryder

Vekon
Feb Member 2019

Vekon

Posts: 2,012Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Noctis Ryder said:
Let us now talk about another topic: realism. Now, within the current system we use, fighting is extremely unrealistic. Fights are not drawn out afars, for the most part. In fact, real life sword fights were rarely ever longer than a few seconds. What was the reason for this?

Simple. Human fatigue, error, and skill. Fatigue is not a factor on W42. Neither is human error.


here lies the problem

I've had my attacks "backstepped" out of in close quarter combat

we've all got Spider-man reflexes and agility I guess
KANDAR VICTA

Axel Vekon, the Eternal Emperor, the Archmage, the Lichslayer, of the Holy Kandarin Empire.

#
HouseVekon

12-Jun-2016 03:37:40 - Last edited on 12-Jun-2016 03:38:54 by Vekon

Lorelei

Lorelei

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Some of this is, to be honest, a problem with keeping things in roleplay. If you keep to acknowledging these things in RP, then it's never an issue. If someone says their char is really good at x and the character meets yours and they're terrible at it, you keep it IC and you respond to it as your character normally would to something they honestly believe is ********.

Moreover, there's a major problem with scaling a character in the way you're suggesting: it pigeonholes everyone into making a character at the absolute bottom of the barrel, which is not appealing to everyone.

I've been on W42 since before the clan update. Does that mean that all of the characters I've had since then get an automatic skip to being god-tier, because it's been a very, very long time? It would be unacceptable. I would be embarrassed of it, getting some kind of free pass to being ridiculous because I'm a community veteran - I keep characters that are very strong because they're essentially Boss-level in private roleplay, where I firmly believe that they should remain. Indefinitely.

The problem with weaknesses is that they don't actually matter. There's one major problem: if there's no one to exploit them, then they just happen to be negative character traits that never come up.

I've had characters that had massive, groundbreaking weaknesses that...never came up, because no one else in the group I was with could take advantage of them (we were running with a variation of D&D stats with bluff and stuff). So it didn't matter. My character had 1 charisma? Not a problem - they were in the military.

To run with any kind of D&D system requires people to understand the system, and people here are not familiar with table-top. At all. Even if they do understand the system, the party has to be well-rounded to cover all the bases for things to go in the way you're thinking of, which is always a problem with MMO roleplay.
I am going to break your arm so that the bone juts out and then I will stab you to death with your own insides. I will win this chess game, is what I am saying.

12-Jun-2016 03:47:01 - Last edited on 12-Jun-2016 03:47:37 by Lorelei

Lorelei

Lorelei

Posts: 527Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
D&D styled stats, abilities and so forth also require checks, which is basically cross-referencing your character's ability to the antagonists/traps. Further knowledge of the system. It also functions best with dice rolls, which we don't have here on RS because of gambling. Thus, external sites must be used, which not everyone has available (because we don't all know each-other or have each-other's contact info).

It presents a series of problems of its own.

As for unrealistic fighting: that's another matter of not being able to control the actions of others. There's nothing to be done for that unless we are in an environment that we control fully. I can discuss how that kind of thing can be rectified further, but it would have to be done through skype or PMs.

In other words: there's a whole list of problems linked to a D&D system. However, if there's demand for it, it's easy to find teaching resources for them, and it could be a very interesting venue to explore. But everyone will have to want it themselves, or groups will have to mutually agree on the use of such a system over another.
I am going to break your arm so that the bone juts out and then I will stab you to death with your own insides. I will win this chess game, is what I am saying.

12-Jun-2016 03:53:27 - Last edited on 12-Jun-2016 03:56:49 by Lorelei

An Item Mule

An Item Mule

Posts: 98Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
There's no cure for being a c*nt; people can't handle loosing.

Problem needs to be fixed but I don't know how nor do I care much.
Logan | House Forrester | Camelot | W42 | Conor's Clone


U
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Make America Great Again!

12-Jun-2016 05:57:02

Lorelei

Lorelei

Posts: 527Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
An Item Mule said:
There's no cure for being a c*nt; people can't handle loosing.


Unfortunately, this is not a problem that can be fixed unless we have the ability to actually punish people for not following rules.

Take solace in the thought that this is a problem in every RP community. People mitigate it by having notes in their messages detailing that they only settle combat situations with the PVP duel system or through rolls (which is unfortunately not available for us :/) but it is never truly 'fixed'.
I am going to break your arm so that the bone juts out and then I will stab you to death with your own insides. I will win this chess game, is what I am saying.

12-Jun-2016 06:03:22

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