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The End of POK's?

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Lady Ria
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2011

Lady Ria

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I'm just gonna say here, once more in more sober words.

Asgarnia shifting from a PoK to an RP Hub is the next stage of a path I had put it on. We have our subclans that function, we've had our leaders go more aloof ICly. We have the story reason for the shift. It just made sense for us, given the dynamics of how Asgarnian rp worked and the new God lore being focused on top of us.

I'm not saying other PoKs need to follow our example. Just because it made sense for us, doesn't mean it makes sense with Kandarin, Rellekka, or Misthalin. If your clan is mostly focused on RP hosted by the PoK, and not being a hub that offers plots and hosts smaller clans, then switching to NPC led or wholly abolishing a PoK won't work. It won't fix problems.

Asgarnia roleplay is still going to happen. We're just having an IC leadership change to better reflect what we need. This opens up opportunity for plots hosted by us, other people, and so on. It cuts out the political bullcrap and prevents us from saying "we want to attack you but you can't attack us because Sardineman."

With Armadyl and Saradomin permanently placed in Asgarnia, we're just not capable of being a player on international political scenes without powerplaying the Gods. So instead, our lorenerds are going to interpret it, and keep things more contained.

I can't overstate this works for us. If other people want to roll with it, and do similar? So be it. If people don't want to? No problem.
neat

14-Jan-2017 20:02:38

Khaji
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2012

Khaji

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Am RolePlay said:
Khaji said:
I think people are ignoring the fact you can basically do what everyone does with a pok without being a pok. The only difference is you dont get to tell x-person or y-group they dont exist withing their land. If you take away the power to essentially keep a person or group from being acknowledged for whatever reason its better overall. People need to work together not use their pok as a means to force others into your solution as has happened in many pok's over the years. Do your political intrigue with noble houses. You can be grand pubah of Draynor and do throne room style rp still just without being on a fancy seat.

PoK's have a way of warping even the most noble cause into a community issue. Getting rid of pok's doesn't solve every issue, but it gives everyone a more even playing field to present their issues instead of a select few groups holding all the cards. Nobody is forcing the pok's to go away just many are tired of the stress and bs that surrounds pok's. There has not been a single pok that did not do something controversial.

To those vehemently opposing the pok abolition tough. Seems like half the world is going to do it. Nobody is going to force any who dont want to let go, go along. They just end up being the only pok's left. A lot of people seem to want this and imo let this have a chance before kicking and screaming. More bs has come from pok's than not. In my experience the most successful rp's have been done by groups that aren't associated with a pok. -


I think the problem isn't POKs, it's the people that lead them.

inb4attackedbyallofthepokleaders


We have had a menagerie of pok leaders and honestly all of them go down very similar paths. At the very least in the areas that decide to dissolve the pok structure let them do it before trying to start that are back up as a pok. Let the server have some time to take a breath from the poks.

14-Jan-2017 20:06:25

BloxzorKBG

BloxzorKBG

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Laeroin said:
I'll attempt to answer your question, Blox, in daniel's stead,


I cannot comment on Daniel's overall reasoning against NPC rule, but I can attempt to decipher, seeing as I have known him for over six years. Daniel is very traditional and loves the push and pull of the throne room's roleplay.



Time and time again I've been told either Camelot or the Vekon canon aren't truly "active" because throne room RP either just sucks or doesn't count.

Really makes you think, doesn't it?

Either way I'll put that one in my pocket and withdraw from the debate, since I removed Ardougne from the list.


RiDaku said:
Then why did Blox decide to add his name to the thread (even though it's wrong because Dan doesn't actually support this)?


I've removed Ardougne from the list, though I never mentioned 'Dan' or 'Dandarin' in said list.
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14-Jan-2017 22:11:12 - Last edited on 14-Jan-2017 22:12:08 by BloxzorKBG

Dast the Lad
Aug Member 2015

Dast the Lad

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Just to throw in my support for this idea as well as make a few arguments for it.

There seems to be some concern that the end of POKs would be the end of political roleplays. I think this is far from the truth; a condensed roleplay with Lords as the new 'Kings' would open up the playing field for much closer feudal politics and allow for more 'cloak and dagger' plays. It would force people who play 'clever' characters to actually demonstrate that trait by outplaying their fellow Lords rather than just pitting some Uber army they have, at their royal disposal, against that of another king and waiting for OOC support to confirm their victory (I'm not saying that happens nor am I trying to step on toes).

In theory, the role of king would just be lowered to a lord of some description who, in most medieval countries, had a lot of power anyway and could easily keep their royal rulers in check. Not much would actually change; if you run a POK now, that kingdom could easily just become a region, be it duchy, barony, etc, within the larger kingdom. You'd still govern over it although not as the highest authority as you would answer, from time to time, to the NPC king.

I think, given W42's population, this would work better than when W41 tried a very similar thing (We had a lot of success at first but, given such a small playerbase, eventually failed. That said, roleplay had been next to non-existant for the months prior so...). A simple tweak to the agreed distance between locations, although honest that might not even be needed, would make these regions feel much closer IC and allow for inter-wars among Lords as well as the aforementioned political plays.

If it didn't run the risk of just splintering the community further, I'd suggest running POKs and this idea in separate canons for a time to see how it works, however, I feel doing so would cause one to fall into inactivity.
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15-Jan-2017 14:02:44

Spartae

Spartae

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What people seem to have forgotten (either wilfully in ignorance or by lack of having experienced it/been there), is that a lot of 2011-2012 PoK roleplay was essentially feudal roleplay without the quality that is often said to be included in the more complex plot functions of post-2013 roleplay.

In W42 2011-2012, you saw a massive amount of roleplay groups and inter-group interactions, but the overall quality was lesser and prone to simple fighting OOC and IC.

In W42 2013-2014, you saw the shift of the dynamic move to lesser groups owning larger swathes of land and actually using their authority. There were more plots (often more complex/demanding a semi-private setting), but there was less genuine interaction between groups overall.

In W42 2015-present, you've seen the intensification of OOC differences lead to stronger group solidarity and the same trends from 2013-14 intensify as well - fewer kings, more land, less interaction between groups that was genuine and meaningful.


What we're seeing here, at the dawn of 2017, is an attempt to harken back to what W42 of 2011-2012 gave us without the lack of complexity, without the constant ebb and flow of social groups holding power and diminishing actual content of roleplay.



I plead that many of you on the fence give the end of PoKs a chance and let W42 positively regress to the more feudal, fractal feel of smaller Public groups that actually acknowledge each other over friend circles.
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16-Jan-2017 00:34:03

Kex
Mar Member 2019

Kex

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I remember when I tried pitching a shift away from POKs in 2012 on the forums, and I was met with 90% resistance. Seeing the idea be more widely accepted now is actually kind of exciting for me.

I'm not sure how much my two cents will mean - I haven't even really actively played since early 2016 - but I want you guys to know something.

If you drop POKs, you will be fine.

You still have to make groups and put in the effort. You can play nobles and civilians in cities. You can still make hubs and clans based in them. You can still interact with one another on wide scales, and you can still interact as a community. Every other MMO does it - you're not allowed to be the King or Queen or Ruler, but you can still affect the world.

I believe in you, friends. Make Adventure Guilds, make clans based around Noble Intrigue in certain cities, make a charity organization, a mercenary company, a group of assassins, a wizard's circle, literally anything. Still hold your big events and balls, just under your character's family name instead of a Kingdom. If you eschew POKs, you'll be taking a step away from combative ooc politics and toward everyone having a little more fun with one another.

I BELIEVE IN YOU PALS
I have eaten
the plums
that were in
the icebox

and which
you were probably
saving
for breakfast

Forgive me
they were delicious
so sweet
and so cold

26-Jan-2017 11:19:29

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