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Rework how Defence operates

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Iron Newb
Dec Member 2015

Iron Newb

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I must say I agree with a lot of the comments. While it makes sense for defense to mitigate damage... It seems awfully similar to RS3 and EOC. and I want nothing to do with that.

I don't want Jagex to touch how combat is done simply because they effed it up so badly the last time.
Bwen Nori

15-Jan-2019 15:04:23 - Last edited on 15-Jan-2019 15:04:54 by Iron Newb

rishinger l

rishinger l

Posts: 1,537Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Iron Newb said:
I must say I agree with a lot of the comments. While it makes sense for defense to mitigate damage... It seems awfully similar to RS3 and EOC. and I want nothing to do with that.

I don't want Jagex to touch how combat is done simply because they effed it up so badly the last time.


Yeah i understand the fear with how badly they messed up combat last time.

But its more the 2 main points of.

Literally no combat provides any risk right now. like. at all.

Vork/zul/revs/raids ALL of them provide no risk once you get the mechanics down properly.

Plus it doesnt really make any sense that you can hit say a 40 against an experiment, and a 40 against vork or zul, its like their scales/hide are literally as weak as say a level 3 cow, or 35 experiment.

Buffing defence would make all these PVM monsters harder to kill, and hopefully provide some risk to PVM/actual;ly slow downt he amount of gold coming in game through combat.

Plus the other main point to look at is "pures".

If we have a popular account build, who's entire purpouse is to avoid ever leveling defence.

Now if pure acounts are such a popular option that a large group of people don't want to level their defence, then clearly something needs to be done to make defence just as viable as attack and strength.

16-Jan-2019 00:14:04

SlightlyAlex
Nov Member 2018

SlightlyAlex

Posts: 20Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
What If the damage reduction component is added but then a counter to it is included which would be armor penetration.
armor penetration would come through the attack skill or specific weapons/gear.
This combination of additions would add more diversity to pvp, pvm and content in general

19-Jan-2019 18:28:58

Soariation
Dec Member 2018

Soariation

Posts: 1,625Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I don't see the need to change how combat operates in this game whatsoever. The gear should contribute to different advantages and disadvantages, otherwise mechanically this game is already very well balanced and unique.

Wouldn't change a thing.

19-Jan-2019 18:39:39

FisherGaming
Feb Member 2019

FisherGaming

Posts: 4,075Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
rishinger l said:
The way defence works right now is that the only thing it does is increase your change of being hit a 0, it does NOT actually reduce the damage you take at all.
So you admit that it does reduce the damage you take. If you are hit less frequently, you are taking less damage overall, even if the damage you take isn't reduced when you're actually hit.

100% chance to get hit for 10 damage 10 times = 100 damage.
50% chance to get hit for 10 damage 10 times = Average of 50 damage.

Logically speaking, being able to defend yourself and block attacks doesn't mean you take less damage from the attack when it actually lands. As such, Defence should remain unchanged.

But you go ahead and try bossing at 1 Defence without wearing armor or using protection prayers, then come back and tell us again how Defence doesn't reduce the damage you take.
There'd be no need for 3rd party clients if the default one was decent. I vote no to all non-PvP Wilderness updates, and yes to all PvP Wilderness updates. If you want to revive the wilderness, encourage players to PvP, not lure them to the Wilderness to be victims.

20-Jan-2019 20:06:13

rishinger l

rishinger l

Posts: 1,537Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
FisherGaming said:
rishinger l said:
The way defence works right now is that the only thing it does is increase your change of being hit a 0, it does NOT actually reduce the damage you take at all.
So you admit that it does reduce the damage you take. If you are hit less frequently, you are taking less damage overall, even if the damage you take isn't reduced when you're actually hit.

100% chance to get hit for 10 damage 10 times = 100 damage.
50% chance to get hit for 10 damage 10 times = Average of 50 damage.

Logically speaking, being able to defend yourself and block attacks doesn't mean you take less damage from the attack when it actually lands. As such, Defence should remain unchanged.

But you go ahead and try bossing at 1 Defence without wearing armor or using protection prayers, then come back and tell us again how Defence doesn't reduce the damage you take.



lol...what?

There is a difference between "you take less damage" and "passive damage reduction" lol.

also...the 50% number you pulled means nothing.

If you have bad luck theres still the possibility of being hit on every single attack.


"Logically speaking, being able to defend yourself and block attacks doesn't mean you take less damage from the attack when it actually lands."

Okay then~ 'logically' speaking higher leveled sets of armour are stronger right?

And why are they stronger? their made out of stronger metals~!

now, if you swing a sword at say bronze armour, or dragon armour, 'logically' you should take less damage in the dragon armour. and why is that?

Thats right~! because the armour is stronger~! and a stronger armour? a stronger armour absorbs way more of the impact from a weapon swing before actually piercing/breaking.

And if the armor absorbs more impact? the weapon hits you with less force, doing less damage~!

so 'logically speaking' defence doesn't work properly right now because it doesn't account for that~

21-Jan-2019 04:33:37

rishinger l

rishinger l

Posts: 1,537Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
also i never said defence doesn't reduce the damage you take.

i said it's strange that you can be hit for the exact same amount of damage no matter what armour your using.

and yeah....if we're looking at things 'logically' as you said to then it makes ZERO sense that stronger armours are just as easy to pierce a say...mage robes....thick armour.

Like i said...if we're going by logic like you said to a thicker/stronger armor should absorb way more of the strikes momentum before breaking/tearing and obviously that slows down the attacks momentum, and if the attack has been slowed down/dispersed through your armor before it hits you, it will hit you slower/weaker and do less damage~!

And like i said before...i never said defence doesn't reduce the damage you take, i said the way the skill works doesn't properly account for the armour your wearing.

Plus another big point:

We have pure accounts EVERYWHERE.

now....if we have so many accounts that there is an entire play-style built off never leveling your defense then clearly something needs to be done to make defence more viable, right?

"But you go ahead and try bossing at 1 Defence without wearing armor or using protection prayers, then come back and tell us again how Defence doesn't reduce the damage you take."

I've seen a level 30 combat with 1 defence walking around with a firecape....so yeah....clearly defence isn't as important as it should be if we have accounts like that...and again, pures.

Edit: also if you have your prayer switching down properly i can guarantee that you could kill zul/vork with one defence.

21-Jan-2019 04:41:07 - Last edited on 21-Jan-2019 04:42:02 by rishinger l

darkarow59gs
Dec Member 2018

darkarow59gs

Posts: 21Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Or simpler just add damage reduction to all armors

Not even 100% chance. Say full rune as 25% chance to reduce by 50% of damage 25% to reduce range damage by 70%, 0% chance to effect magic, barrows/ dragon being better, magic armors including magic reduction and less melee and range... think programming wise it would be simpler to add it to armors. I don't think it should be guaranteed reduction, pking is highly based on lucky high hits. It is fair to remain possible to be max hit on.

24-Jan-2019 08:14:47 - Last edited on 24-Jan-2019 08:34:01 by darkarow59gs

rishinger l

rishinger l

Posts: 1,537Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
darkarow59gs said:
Or simpler just add damage reduction to all armors

Not even 100% chance. Say full rune as 25% chance to reduce by 50% of damage 25% to reduce range damage by 70%, 0% chance to effect magic, barrows/ dragon being better, magic armors including magic reduction and less melee and range... think programming wise it would be simpler to add it to armors. I don't think it should be guaranteed reduction, pking is highly based on lucky high hits. It is fair to remain possible to be max hit on.


Thats actually a really good idea....

That way justicar would still keep its value as the only set that 100% reduces damage from attacks.

And higher tiers of armour would actually give a bonus proportionate to their level.

>.>" im gonna add this to my main post~

24-Jan-2019 10:10:40

FisherGaming
Feb Member 2019

FisherGaming

Posts: 4,075Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
rishinger l said:
There is a difference between "you take less damage" and "passive damage reduction"
The only real difference is you specified "passive" with one and not the other, otherwise they mean the same thing.

If you are reducing the damage you take, you are taking less damage.

rishinger l said:
also...the 50% number you pulled means nothing.
It was easier than going through the actual formula OSRS uses to calculate your accuracy. Higher Defence and better armor can be even more effective than a 50% reduction.

rishinger l said:
If you have bad luck theres still the possibility of being hit on every single attack.
Conversely, if you have good luck, there's a possibility of being hit by none of the attacks. That's why I specified you'd take an average of 50 damage.

rishinger l said:
if you swing a sword at say bronze armour, or dragon armour, you should take less damage in the dragon armour... because the armour is stronger~!
That's precisely what happens in Runescape's combat system. Better armor means you will be hit less often, and therefore take less damage.

I don't know if you're aware how armor actually works, but you either take damage or you don't. Wearing a cuirass doesn't mean someone attacking you with a sword leaves a smaller cut, it means the swing is far less likely to leave a cut at all.

You might do more or less damage with a strike depending on a whole host of factors, which is accounted for by the variances in damage you deal when you actually land a hit.

Attack = Do you penetrate their Defence?
Damage roll = How much damage does the attack actually do?

rishinger l said:
also i never said defence doesn't reduce the damage you take.
rishinger l said:
The way defence works right now... it does NOT actually reduce the damage you take at all.
There'd be no need for 3rd party clients if the default one was decent. I vote no to all non-PvP Wilderness updates, and yes to all PvP Wilderness updates. If you want to revive the wilderness, encourage players to PvP, not lure them to the Wilderness to be victims.

26-Jan-2019 02:40:26

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