Forums

Saradomin being unethical

Quick find code: 341-342-0-65774101

iXavior

iXavior

Posts: 390Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Is it me or is Saradomin's plan to bring back long dead centaurs/troops through the wand of resurrection unethical? I am a firm believer that the dead should stay dead. Saradomin is basically robbing people out of their afterlife, like how Nomad did to create Gielinor. He is simply no better than Nomad. He is defying the natural order of nature.

His actions clearly falls under
necromancy
, an extremely immoral "dark" form of magic that even Death and Icthlarin detests as an abomination. I had a debate in the Lore FC about whether or not Saradomin's actions should be considered Necromancy.

I say yes. I define necromancy as any form of magic influencing the dead, whether that be to passively communicate with them, resurrect their corpses, summoning a spirit, controlling their soul (like Sliske's wights). Summoning a soul out of the afterlife to force them back into their dead body is clearly necromancy.

Also, by the looks of Sir Owen's arm, the wand clearly does not deem Saradomin as a virtuous being. Anyone who gets resurrected by Saradomin will still be partially dead. They aren't completely resurrected. Those poor handicapped centaurs!

___________

And here another thing unethical about Saradomin. Saradomin openly knows that the wand deems him unworthy. Yet, he is willing to abuse it to bring back malformed, semi-resurrected, half-undead soldiers.

Quote from Death of Chivalry:
Sir Owen: The urge to destroy boils within me. The corruption claws at my mind.
Saradomin: Sir Owen...
Sir Owen: My body may be tainted, but my intentions are pure and virtuous.
Saradomin: For now...
(foreshadowing right here!!!)


Let me ask you a question: what kind of noble god would knowingly and purposely bring back corrupted soldiers? To have them slowly mentally suffer like Owen. Sooner or later, all the people Saradomin revives will succumb to their corruption.

The end result: an army of bloodthirsty monsters.
I worship Mah, for she is mah homegirl! The correct adjective for Mah's followers are: Mahomies, Mah-homeboys, or Mah-homegirls.

04-Apr-2016 00:45:41

iXavior

iXavior

Posts: 390Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
...cont

Also, let me clear something up. The wand deems Saradomin unworthy no matter what action you take in the quest. If you give the wand to Saradomin freely, he will blame his past deeds for Sir Owen's state. If you refuse to hand it over, he will take it by force, blaming his anger for Sir Owen's state.

We can infer that the former is the factor that is really judging Saradomin. Once he goes to revive the centaurs and dead knights, he will probably be in a rather contempt state, ruling out the notion that his anger is at fault for Owen's state (for those who rebelled against him). They will still be corrupted however, as the wand apparently will judge his past actions in whether or not they will be revived completely.

Many of you will also say that many of Saradomin's dead troops would be happy to be resurrected to fight for their god again. In my opinion, I don't think they'd want to be resurrected and slowly driven mad by the corruption that will be inflicted upon them... It will taint their soul, and once they die again, they will stay that way for all eternity....
I worship Mah, for she is mah homegirl! The correct adjective for Mah's followers are: Mahomies, Mah-homeboys, or Mah-homegirls.

04-Apr-2016 00:45:47 - Last edited on 04-Apr-2016 00:58:46 by iXavior

iXavior

iXavior

Posts: 390Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Raleirosen said:

On the topic of necromancy -- I think it's clear that the nature of the wand is not "immoral" or "dark," as far as we can tell. At the very least, it was used by the centaurs with no adverse or visibly evil effects. So saying that necromancy is 100% evil/dark/immoral is probably untrue.



Well there are critics like me that think necromancy is evil and immoral. The wizards at the Wizard tower and wizard's guild outlaws this form of magic. The wizard under the wizard guild apparently has to keep his necromancy works a secret. Death and Icthlarin would probably also back me up on this, seeing how they approached Nomad's actions. To rob a soul of it's afterlife...to force a soul to work again after being sent to their "eternal resting place" is just taboo to me. It defies the natural order of the universe.
I worship Mah, for she is mah homegirl! The correct adjective for Mah's followers are: Mahomies, Mah-homeboys, or Mah-homegirls.

04-Apr-2016 01:06:14

iXavior

iXavior

Posts: 390Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Jexel L said:

You can't compare what Nomad did to what Saradomin plans to do. Nomad stuffed souls into his abomination of a god, whereas Saradomin plans only to give them back the life they once had. He wants to give them a second chance since their lives were cut short fighting in his wars. "In the hands of one devoted to good, the wand could be used to return lost heroes to life. Innocents. Those who didn't deserve to die."

Of course, you might think that "the dead should stay dead" but if the dead -want- to return to life, why shouldn't they? Because it's against nature? If defying nature is such a big deal, then you should probably not be using a computer, or getting vaccines, or using any kind of technology whatsoever.


But how do we determine whether people want to be resurrected from the ones that don't? They seem pretty happy in the Saradominist's afterlife. An afterlife with no wars, no discrimination and eternal bliss. Who is he to force them? And if he doesn't resurrect them, who will? Is there even such thing as a truly, virtuous noble soul out there? Virtuousness and nobility are a contruct of society. We all have negative deeds in our past lives. Only Elora, the maker of the wand, could tell you that, and that would only be her definition of virtuousness. Apparently, not even her god fit her description.

Also, don't cross real life aspects to fictional in-game lore. They are completely different with similar context. By that logic, it should also be acceptable to kill anyone ***** nilly in real life like in rs.
I worship Mah, for she is mah homegirl! The correct adjective for Mah's followers are: Mahomies, Mah-homeboys, or Mah-homegirls.

04-Apr-2016 01:22:31 - Last edited on 04-Apr-2016 01:32:23 by iXavior

iXavior

iXavior

Posts: 390Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Zack3 said:
Wouldn't it be funny if sara revived the centaurs, and the centaurs were like: "why did u revive us?" "we were happy in the afterlife, why u took that away from us?!!!" and all the centaurs began to complain about being revived, and Sara was paralyzed in confusion unable to think on how to react to that. :P


He'd probably ripped out their legs or tails like Garlandia. How dare you refuse to fight!

And because of this, they can't even commit suicide, as there is no guarantee they will return to the same peaceful afterlife as before, now....
I worship Mah, for she is mah homegirl! The correct adjective for Mah's followers are: Mahomies, Mah-homeboys, or Mah-homegirls.

04-Apr-2016 01:35:26

iXavior

iXavior

Posts: 390Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Lord Remus said:
Nercomancy and things like Demon summoning can be considered tools that beings use for various purposes. It's not the practices themselves that are inherently "good" or "evil" but rather the intent of the user.

For example, we invented hammers for building things and breaking things. It is not the hammer's fault if someone picks it and lodges it into someone else's head.

If Saradomin uses the wand via someone else to bring back the centaurs in a none corrupt form and said centaurs actually want to return then I would consider his actions "morally" sound. Assuming he also released those who didn't want to return.



I do not think he would return the centaurs if they refused to cooperate with him. Someone just wasted their life energy trying to resurrect them, and there is no way he'd let them die again. He'd probably force them to go into war, if nothing but meat shields. Saradomin is not known for his versatility in allowing people to have their own opinion. Just look at the naragi and Garlandia.
I worship Mah, for she is mah homegirl! The correct adjective for Mah's followers are: Mahomies, Mah-homeboys, or Mah-homegirls.

04-Apr-2016 01:40:03

iXavior

iXavior

Posts: 390Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
@sky jexel


Player: You would resurrect the centaurs, only for them to die fighting.

"I would give every centaur the option to return to the Enchanted Valley." -Fern

That quote you took was in response to the aforementioned red text. She never really responded to your main argument... Even so, the centaurs weren't even completely loyal to Saradomin, unlike others such as Zilyana. Bree himself even cautioned Fern to abandon him and return to the Enchanted Valley. What would Saradomin do if they abandoned him in mid-fight?


"I force no one to bend their knee towards me." -Saradomin
...because all those who don't will end up dead in the next few seconds or be politely persuaded through various limb-ripping methods.
I worship Mah, for she is mah homegirl! The correct adjective for Mah's followers are: Mahomies, Mah-homeboys, or Mah-homegirls.

04-Apr-2016 01:50:26 - Last edited on 04-Apr-2016 01:54:59 by iXavior

iXavior

iXavior

Posts: 390Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Mah is my only god, and she is beyond "oppressed," compared to your "god" Saradomin. Abandoned and betrayed by her sisters, children, used as food by her son, and left to rot, starving on a dead planet for centuries. Be grateful you are all alive, because if she was functioning, she'd stop the existence of all mortal life. We know she has the power to do so. So do not tell me that she deserves years of suffering and hate by Jagex.

As for Owen, he is slowly becoming more and more corrupted. Even Saradomin himself has doubts he will get through. What god would allow him to suffer. The pain of the corruption is clawing at his mind. It will spread through his whole body eventually. I believe no one is truly pure. True purity is in the eye of the beholder, and only Elora could define that using her definition of "purity." Saradomin will be head of an army of mutant corrupted monsters eventually.
I worship Mah, for she is mah homegirl! The correct adjective for Mah's followers are: Mahomies, Mah-homeboys, or Mah-homegirls.

04-Apr-2016 03:23:01 - Last edited on 04-Apr-2016 03:25:05 by iXavior

iXavior

iXavior

Posts: 390Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
"I am talking about the marginalization of the faction in terms of lore content. How about the benefits of your faction compared to the marginalized Saradominist faction in lore? Your faction deserves 4 years of unending negative lore, hatred and bashing aswell. Saradomin needs more positive lore from the devs and even some positive discrimination in his favor.

Your side has the largest racist, Neo-****, **********, hateful, transphobic, anti-semitic community in all of the runescape community may I mention?

An arm or a finger is minor compared to when dawn used it. There is nothing so bad about wanting to revive them while the "out of place" intention is to have some be his army. The getting back on track thing is an obstacle to overcome in DOC 2, even Seren hints it. Also Saradomin was meant to reflect the nature of humans according to a quote somewhere. You are the hateful unforgiving one who doesn't want him redeemed at all."

_______________

Mah is not a transphobic, neo-**** anything. How dare you say that. As a follower of Mah, my belief is that she purposely starved herself because she knew that her powers at their fullest would have stopped us mortals from existing. Mah is described as a loner filled with childlike wonder. She created two avatars of herself (Zaros and Seren) that represent her ideals. She cares very much about mortals and probably felt very much guilt participating in the previous Revision. You should be thankful you exist today because of her.
I worship Mah, for she is mah homegirl! The correct adjective for Mah's followers are: Mahomies, Mah-homeboys, or Mah-homegirls.

04-Apr-2016 03:42:16 - Last edited on 04-Apr-2016 03:45:38 by iXavior

iXavior

iXavior

Posts: 390Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Padomenes said:

My intention is for all factions/groups of people to be treated equally.



Wouldn't you be better off as an Armadylean or a Serenist then? Because Saradomin doesn't really believe in equality between god and different groups. He'd probably be the first to eliminate the vampyres and other corrupt creatures. All must be order!
I worship Mah, for she is mah homegirl! The correct adjective for Mah's followers are: Mahomies, Mah-homeboys, or Mah-homegirls.

04-Apr-2016 03:58:44

iXavior

iXavior

Posts: 390Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Lord Remus said:
iXavior said:
Padomenes said:

My intention is for all factions/groups of people to be treated equally.



Wouldn't you be better off as an Armadylean or a Serenist then? Because Saradomin doesn't really believe in equality between god and different groups. He'd probably be the first to eliminate the vampyres and other corrupt creatures. All must be order!


That isn't exactly true. If Saradomin was that bad then Char and Nex would likely be dead or at the least severely injured when he returned after Guthix's death.


They were emotionally injured. Char is more furious than ever lol. and Nex is dead inside for failing her god and being humiliated.
I worship Mah, for she is mah homegirl! The correct adjective for Mah's followers are: Mahomies, Mah-homeboys, or Mah-homegirls.

04-Apr-2016 04:13:52

Quick find code: 341-342-0-65774101Back to Top