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Cultural Elements & Saradomin?

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Padomenes
Apr Member 2015

Padomenes

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So its been determined that the cultural inspiration for Saradominist Civilization, especially when it was the closest to how he intended it to be like was inspired by Ancient Greece/Hellenic Society or Alexander the Great's empire. Even the armour resembles that of ancient Greek troops, most specifically the melee armour(Phalanx/Hoplite) and ranged. His robes or clothing according to some are also Hellenic/Ancient Greek themed, Saradominist society most likely had alot of philosophers knowing this during the 2nd age.

But I have to ask, why and is it that most Saradominist settlements have become more Medieval European(Unless they are Eastern European which would make sense) or Holy Roman Empire/Prussian themed like Falador is and the knights + armour style?

How did such a change happen with Saradominist society having Hoplite/Phalanx formations during the 2nd age into this?

The land that Saradomin owned during the 2nd age consisted mainly of only Entrana, East Kandarin bordering some Armadylean settlements, Southern Asgarnia, biggest territory being Hallowvale and for a limited time Uzer. Many of these were all along coasts.

Regarding who Saradomin would be inspired by: Zeus or Kronos more.

Kronos ran a world where all people had what they needed in Greek mythology called the 'golden age', nobody competed for resources, there was no 'crime'(Laws not needed), no danger and everybody could have anything they desired. It was a form of prosperity with no predatory behavior('Order') like Saradomin would want? Kronos only acted 'bad' in the way we know later on when he found out a prophecy that his rule would be usurped by 'one of his children', and desperately tried to stop it from happening to himself. Zeus believed in a world with limited resources/opportunities for mortals and hierarchies after overthrowing him then made it into that.
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28-Sep-2017 10:57:42 - Last edited on 28-Sep-2017 11:19:46 by Padomenes

Elf of Seren
Nov Gold Premier Club Member 2012

Elf of Seren

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Probably just exposure to outside cultures and adaptation to current events.

Teragard is probably still super greek and junk, but on Gielinor, it would make sense to change tactics as time goes on.

28-Sep-2017 17:00:54

AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

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All current Saradominist civilizations on Gielinor were built from the ground up without Saradomin. He's been gone for over 2000 years.

Also, I'd be willing to bet he got the "Greek" civilization style from the Icyene, not Teragard. Remember, he rejected human culture and adopted Icyene culture. Teragard is likely something else entirely.
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I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
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28-Sep-2017 18:40:28 - Last edited on 28-Sep-2017 18:40:50 by AesirWarrior

Giras
Sep Gold Premier Club Member 2012

Giras

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Another attempt by Pado to whitewash saradomin. His military was a racially segregated, and classist legion that used humans as cannon fodder to die in mass so that "more important races can get the job done". His society had strict social barriers in which each race could only do one job as he commanded it with no flexibility for the individual's talents. This has confirmed my suspicions that true Saradominist society is indeed a personality cult dictatorship.

As for your comparison of Kronos' "golden age"... you do understand that mortal races were either cheap entertainment or snacks for the titans right? An apt comparison really, in his "golden age" only Saradomin (Kronos) and his chosen people, the icyene (Titans), mattered. The other "lesser rabble" are disposable on the whims of the born elite.
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28-Sep-2017 19:47:53

Hguoh
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2014

Hguoh

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To be fair about the military being segregated, it makes sense.

On average, Icyene are stronger, more durable, and more mobile (flight). They are more tactically valuable than humans whose main advantage is their shorter generation time (our dead and crippled can be replaced with new recruits at a faster rate) which does tend to make us better suited for the front lines (and yes as cannon fodder) than the Icyene.

Granted, there should be some notable exceptions to this (in both directions) based on the merits of particular individuals (i.e. I'd hope that a sickly flightless Icyene wouldn't be treated differently than humans, and that an exceptional human would be treated similarly to the Icyene). The fact that we haven't seen any such examples doesn't get my hopes up. The closest we see to an example are the Temple Knights, and their MO back then seems to have been to sacrifice themselves to help attain Saradomin's goals (making them just another way to take advantage of humans being relatively disposable in comparison to the Icyene).

So yeah, I can understand the segregation (and even think that it's justified due to the different capabilities of each species), but I'd hope to see some meritocratic exceptions to it that we currently don't.

28-Sep-2017 20:52:18

Elf of Seren
Nov Gold Premier Club Member 2012

Elf of Seren

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Sodden Hound said:
^^ Pretty sure the icyene are the Greek-inspired ones?


AesirWarrior said:

Also, I'd be willing to bet he got the "Greek" civilization style from the Icyene, not Teragard. Remember, he rejected human culture and adopted Icyene culture. Teragard is likely something else entirely.


AAAAHHH! You're right lol. Oops. But the concept I was going for still stands if you ignore that brain fart

29-Sep-2017 01:46:11 - Last edited on 29-Sep-2017 01:47:09 by Elf of Seren

Padomenes
Apr Member 2015

Padomenes

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Giras said:
Another attempt by Pado to whitewash saradomin. His military was a racially segregated, and classist legion that used humans as cannon fodder to die in mass so that "more important races can get the job done". His society had strict social barriers in which each race could only do one job as he commanded it with no flexibility for the individual's talents. This has confirmed my suspicions that true Saradominist society is indeed a personality cult dictatorship.

As for your comparison of Kronos' "golden age"... you do understand that mortal races were either cheap entertainment or snacks for the titans right? An apt comparison really, in his "golden age" only Saradomin (Kronos) and his chosen people, the icyene (Titans), mattered. The other "lesser rabble" are disposable on the whims of the born elite.
Where did I say that? I was talking about in terms of the beliefs theoretically that Saradomin says he wants and according to some such as Stu? And howcome the new lore also says/confirms also that in Zamorak's society those who can't help themselves for whatever reasons 'do not survive'? I would also say that slavery itself is more humane than letting somebody be homeless, unable to help themselves or starve. There is no such thing that is worse than otherwise.

I was also asking which he would be closer to and just saying I found some similarities with 'Kronos(Also worshiped as the god Saturn) by Romans' but not all and asked for input on which one would anybody think his closer to from inspiration since its derived from Ancient Greece. Zeus or Kronos more?

No sources for that besides maybe what you read from adaptation portrayals in movies. Also read below what the 'golden age' was.
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29-Sep-2017 04:42:20 - Last edited on 29-Sep-2017 05:36:02 by Padomenes

Padomenes
Apr Member 2015

Padomenes

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"His father gone, Cronus became what he always wanted, the Ruler of Cosmos. He was supported by most of his brothers and sisters. And the time couldn't have been better. chronos golden ageIt was the Golden Age of Men, a time of prosperity, peace and harmony between all living beings. It is said that in this time animals spoke with human voice and no one would get ill, physically or mentally. They had lived in harmony and in abundance of everything and even when they had died, death came peacefully during sleep. According to Diodorus Siculus, whose Cronus was a kind character, it is said that Cronus taught men to change their living from rude way to civilised life and introduced them sincerity of soul and justice and therefore people became good-hearted and guileless. Now back to the mainstream story, all living beings were happy and pleased during this age and even Cronus got himself a bride who appeared to be his sister Rhea. Together they made it possible for six children to be born but before they were born, Uranus and Gaea have foretold a future which disturbed Cronus very much. And instead of living a abundant and peaceful life in harmony, things changed for the worst."

Source 2: "After dispatching Uranus, Cronus re-imprisoned the Hecatonchires, and the Cyclopes and set the dragon Campe to guard them. He and his sister Rhea took the throne of the world as king and queen. The period in which Cronus ruled was called the Golden Age, as the people of the time had no need for laws or rules; everyone did the right thing, and immorality was absent."
Saradominist
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INFP(Possibly also ENFP)
, Democratic Socialist irl

29-Sep-2017 04:46:36 - Last edited on 29-Sep-2017 04:51:40 by Padomenes

Hguoh
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2014

Hguoh

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Padomenes said:
Kronos ran a world where all people had what they needed in Greek mythology called the 'golden age', nobody competed for resources, there was no 'crime'(Laws not needed), no danger and everybody could have anything they desired. It was a form of prosperity with no predatory behavior('Order') like Saradomin would want? Kronos only acted 'bad' in the way we know later on when he found out a prophecy that his rule would be usurped by 'one of his children', and desperately tried to stop it from happening to himself. Zeus believed in a world with limited resources/opportunities for mortals and hierarchies after overthrowing him then made it into that.


Slight correction: Kronos ruled the world while it was bountiful and provided everything you say it did. That being said, he played no part as to why it provided as it did. He just happened to rule over it at the time.

Similarly, Zeus didn't believe in a world with limited resources. It wasn't until Prometheus stole fire (almost always taken as an allegory for intelligence) and the other arts and gave them to mortals (also considered the initiation of the Golden Age in some Greek traditions (there really wasn't much of a consensus amongst them outside of it happening)) that Zeus felt mortals had to be punished and sent the curious girl Pandora and her box to Prometheus's brother (instructing him that it mustn't be opened) and Pandora's consequent opening of the box (releasing all the ailments within) that the world began it's 'descent'

That being said, I feel like it should be fairly obvious that the god of a Greek-inspired society would be more inspired by Zeus than Kronos (as the Greeks primarily worshipped the Olympians) and Saradomin's temper certainly seems to be indicative of that.

29-Sep-2017 16:41:52 - Last edited on 29-Sep-2017 16:48:33 by Hguoh

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