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Divine Tear Side-Effects

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Hguoh

Hguoh

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Even if we assume Guthix had an aura, that still doesn't justify an addiction. The Elven addiction to Seren originated not from her aura, but from her joining their souls with hers (via the song of creation if I'm not mistaken). As no similar event of Soul linking occurred, none of the combatants should feel any withdrawal symptoms (unless they decided to ram the tears into themselves).

At most, some of the combatants might find themselves hearing Guthix's voice (given Drakan's reaction in the Old Blood).

15-Mar-2017 23:06:15 - Last edited on 15-Mar-2017 23:11:31 by Hguoh

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Again: Even if Guthix had an aura, you are still missing the binding of souls that actually causes the addiction.

So unless somebody started jamming the crystals into themselves for some other reason, nobody's going to be feeling withdrawal symptoms. Because, again, the aura is not what caused the addiction.

18-Mar-2017 04:35:40

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Ah, but the effects Seren and Zaros had on each other faded over time once separated without apparent withdrawal symptoms (Seren had to wean the elves off of her due to their symptoms).

And that is the key difference between the general effects of their auras and full blown addiction cation. And that difference is important because the former only requires proxmity (what BoL crater would classify as), while the latter requires a soul binding. And, again, only the latter has notable long term side effects (the former simply fades away after leaving the area of effect).

We can see this by observing Angof and Seren. Angof is addicted to Seren, and despite being born after she left and millennia of Seren's absence can't help but to love Seren. On the other hand, Seren was able to oppose Zaros when the latter was leaving despite the devotion to him his aura would have caused by the immediate proximity. More pertinently, there is no evidence of either her or Zaros feeling any withdrawal effects after their separation.

Without soul binding or somebody willingly becoming dependent on the tears' power (by jamming them into themselves), you lack any conditions for combatants becoming addicted to Guthix's supposed aura.

19-Mar-2017 01:19:11

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Bloodcount said:
Isn't the entire point of Zaros not wanting to start a new empire, that his aura caused a level of control (or connection) to his followers. It seems reading through all of that the effect slowly diminishes over times. Guthix wasn't a god of control, so I feel that his hypothetical aura could be of a slightly different variety?

Thoughts?


Zaros claims that part of the reason he doesn't want to do another Empire is because he doesn't like the effects his aura has on mortals. Raleirosen points out the other big reason he brings up.

But, again, that's not the same as the elves' addiction to Seren. As shown with Zaros's withdrawal from the Empire, the general effects of his aura (and presumably Seren's) fade relatively quickly with time.

The elves' addiction to Seren, however, has yet to fade even when it comes to the elves left on Tarddiad who have been left behind (Angof admits that she should hate Seren, but can't help but love her). Keep in mind, these are eves who were left with only the most minute traces of Seren's presence, far less than the elves on Gielinor (and for a longer period of time as well since Seren didn't shatter herself until the end of the 3rd age).

Beyond that, the addicted elves rather clearly exhibit withdrawal symptoms in Seren's absence, whereas ex-members of the Zarosian Empire did not, even after Zaros was 'killed' and returned to Freneskae.

Again: no soul binding or people willingly becoming dependent on the gods' power means no addiction and, by effect, no long term effects on those exposed.

22-Mar-2017 21:00:37

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Raleirosen said:
Hguoh said:
Beyond that, the addicted elves rather clearly exhibit withdrawal symptoms in Seren's absence, whereas ex-members of the Zarosian Empire did not, even after Zaros was 'killed' and returned to Freneskae.
I don't think the fall of the empire is evidence enough for Zaros' aura fading with time; he was not even present in the empire for a significant period of time, therefore the aura would not have taken hold on many of its citizens.

I suppose it's probably a safe enough assumption to make, though.


The Zamorakian Mahjarrat and Kharshai would like to have a bit of a discussion with you about still being loyal to Zaros. Keep in mind, Zaros was pretty hands on with the empire prior to the war with the Menaphites.

24-Mar-2017 10:33:10

Hguoh

Hguoh

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ZAmorakZaros said:
Hguoh said:
Again: Even if Guthix had an aura, you are still missing the binding of souls that actually causes the addiction.

So unless somebody started jamming the crystals into themselves for some other reason, nobody's going to be feeling withdrawal symptoms. Because, again, the aura is not what caused the addiction.

People are curious and when they see that the crystals are giving the gods power, they might want to experiment with them.


Woah, can you jam another of these crystals in my arm, man? I'm coming down a bit from my totally divine high.

24-Mar-2017 10:34:16

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Yubel124 said:
Actually it is known that Draken did experience withdraw symptoms after Zaros' death (see his lore's and histories story). Also it is interesting to point out that he is the only one know to. And he was one of the only beings who didn't originate from Mah to be close to Zaros. Just an interesting tidbit.


He heard Zaros's voice in his head. Of note, Zamorak's dialogue with him alludes to the idea that he too hears Zaros's voice, and Azzanadra started hearing Zaros's voice when the Communion Portal failed.

I'm hesitant to call this a symptom of withdrawal from Zaros's aura, however, for two reasons.

One, it did not appear to induce loyalty (the key factor indicating the influence of his aura (for example, Seren's elves are literally incapable of not loving her)).

Two, there did not appear to be any negative impact on his physiology (like how the elves would die without Seren's presence or some other source of her power).

Even assuming that it is, it does appear to match the symptoms that fade over time without re-exposure to the aura, more than the signs of a the addiction Seren's elves exhibit.

25-Mar-2017 00:39:42 - Last edited on 25-Mar-2017 00:41:19 by Hguoh

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Raleirosen said:
Hguoh said:
One, it did not appear to induce loyalty (the key factor indicating the influence of his aura (for example, Seren's elves are literally incapable of not loving her)).

Two, there did not appear to be any negative impact on his physiology (like how the elves would die without Seren's presence or some other source of her power).

Even assuming that it is, it does appear to match the symptoms that fade over time without re-exposure to the aura, more than the signs of a the addiction Seren's elves exhibit.
The Seren comparison doesn't make sense simply because the elves are an extreme case. Zaros never treated any of his subservient races with the same attention and devotion, so it follows that withdrawal from his aura would be different compared to the elves' withdrawal from Seren's.


And Guthix's energy treated the combatants with more attention and devotion than Zaros gave his empire? Or was in such a high concentration that it could induce such effects in such a short while (ignoring the fact that Zaros only distanced himself from the Empire after the war with the Menaphites (which apparently happened late in the 2nd age))?

I'm sorry, but it doesn't add up.

28-Mar-2017 03:30:31

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Raleirosen said:
Hguoh said:
And Guthix's energy treated the combatants with more attention and devotion than Zaros gave his empire? Or was in such a high concentration that it could induce such effects in such a short while (ignoring the fact that Zaros only distanced himself from the Empire after the war with the Menaphites (which apparently happened late in the 2nd age))?

I'm sorry, but it doesn't add up.
What are you talking about? Guthix? The "combatants"? I was responding to your skepticism regarding hearing Zaros' voice and whether or not that was a symptom of his aura.


The purpose of this thread. The idea that combatants from the Battle of Lumbridge would be feeling withdrawal symptoms due to their exposure to the Divine Tears during the battle.

28-Mar-2017 19:16:31

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Raleirosen said:
What does that have to do with me pointing out that your comparison of Zaros and the effects of his aura on Drakan/Zimzams/Azzy to Seren and the effects of her aura on the elves doesn't make sense?


I'm saying that, assuming you're right, it still wouldn't result in the effects the OP suggests/desires.

That being said, I still express skepticism as to whether or not the voice Drakan heard was a result of Zaros's aura or not. The key part being that it didn't appear to induce any degree of loyalty (the key signifier of Zaros's aura). If anything, it drove Drakan to disobey what he believed Zaros would want.

If anything, I'd say that the voice was representative of Drakan struggling with his own internal conflict between being 'civilized' (Zaros introduced the concept to him, so it would make sense that it'd be his voice) and staying true to his nature.

29-Mar-2017 21:37:21 - Last edited on 29-Mar-2017 21:40:05 by Hguoh

Hguoh

Hguoh

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Raleirosen said:
Snip


It's worth noting that Zamorak and Drakan apparently began hearing the voice either prior to the coup's completion or shortly thereafter (given Zamorak's statement that that it would be the first and last time that he'd expect Drakan to kneel to him in his explanation to Drakan about hearing the voice).

Depending on when the events in the Old Blood occurred (immediately prior to the coup or when Zammy was conquering Senntisten), it could very well be an example of withdrawal or just an example of the aura's effects fading after removing the source (which is less akin to withdrawal and more like coming down from being high). But that's getting a bit off track.

Back on track, Azzanadra didn't start hearing Zaros's voice until after he attempted to establish the communion portal at Senntisten, which doesn't quite match with the implication that Zammy's been experiencing these effects prior to that point (how else would he know about what Drakan would/was experiencing) when they'd all been separated from Zaros for a similar period of time (due to Zaros traveling the planes and withdrawing from the empire.

It's by no means a disproval of it being a symptom of withdrawal from the aura, but I'm hesitant to label it as such (especially since we have no indication that other former members of the empire experienced that symptom).

Edit: There's also not much consistency between what each of their voices wanted (potentially it's what each of them believed Zaros would have wanted them to do). We don't know about Zamorak's, but we do know that Drakan's advocated he be more civilized, while Azzanadra's advocated for revenge on the invading gods and their forces.

31-Mar-2017 04:37:25 - Last edited on 31-Mar-2017 04:52:11 by Hguoh

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