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Why/How can we see the stars?

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AesirWarrior
Jun Member 2019

AesirWarrior

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Let me begin with this quote from the recent lore q&a, which pretty much sums up the structure of the universe.

Original message details are unavailable.
The terms ‘planes’ and ‘realms’ are mostly interchangeable, and are pockets of creation that may contain multiple planets, moons and other celestial bodies, plus what we might call ‘space’, and entirely encompassed by the Abyss. There are other, small planes (often referred to as pocket universes) that contain other matter than celestial bodies (and typically no ‘space’), e.g. the Enchanted Valley, the rune altars, the Starflower Plane.


(If you want an in-game source there's the Abyssal book and a shitton of others)

So most of the worlds we know of are not linked by space. From what we know, we can't just fly to Freneskae because it's not physically linked to Gielinor in any way. It's on a seperate plane of creation seperated from us by the Abyss, which is a sort of glue-dimension between the planes.

Why is it then that we can see stars in the sky? Most worlds we know of are on seperate planes of existence so it makes little sense that we'd be able to see their stars, and I doubt the Elders would create any if they didn't serve a purpose like giving their Anima Generators light and warmth. Could each plane actually house hundreds, or even thousands, of worlds? I find that unlikely.

So how can we see stars in the sky? Are they even all stars? Maybe they're all Star Sprites in rocks and the Teletubby was lying when he said most of them were burning balls of gas.

That is all.
-
I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

26-Jan-2017 19:21:32

N7spongy
Mar Member 2019

N7spongy

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The structure of the RS universe hasn't been 100% defined yet, but it IS being worked on. Also I'm pretty sure most of the worlds/realms we've been in are just planets in space. The Abyss is likely just some sort of separate dimension that holds this dimension together. Old lore was made by different people (e.g. Tower of Life) and as such there are many contradictions anyways. As for stars Mod Jack confirmed that it was just a lorefail. Brassica X Marimbo OTP

26-Jan-2017 21:23:44

Cthris
Jun Member 2019

Cthris

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Great question. I think I have an answer for you too.

In summers end we got to have a glimps at the void. The void is filled with white light. Now this in itself is super interesting. In an absence of light one cannot visually perceive anything but darknessso obviously there must be light. If there's light there is energy. The void must be filled with energy.

Perhaps what we perceive as stars is not stars but instead tears in the abyss or our own space revealing the energy contained in the void.

26-Jan-2017 21:50:27

AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

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Mod Jack has said that they don't want to choose between the planetary model or the planar model. The planar model is older and more established in-game. Only the Tuska event explicitly suggests the planetary model, as far as I know.

According to the planar model, yes each plane may contain a whole cosmos, though not all of them do, such as Iaia or the Gorak world - the former has few stars; the latter lacks even outer space. Maybe the elder goddesses would create a whole cosmos in a plane hoping that simple life (as opposed to sentient or sapient life) would develop on at least one of them - this may sound inefficient, but it mirrors real life cosmology. Once at least one planet in plane had life on it, it might have been magically linked, perhaps by the fairy ring network, to the planets with life on other planes.

@Cthris: You've pretty much described the cosmology of the Elder Scrolls series.

26-Jan-2017 22:00:35

Raleirosen
Jun Member 2019

Raleirosen

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An interesting question, but really it's just a pointless rabbit hole in my opinion (at least until the universe's structure is elaborated upon). Are they really stars? Does each star support a solar system, with planets and moons and so on? Are the stars necessary for the anima on those planets/moons to survive? Did the Elders create the stars, too? etc. Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

27-Jan-2017 02:15:32

Elf of Seren
Nov Gold Premier Club Member 2012

Elf of Seren

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Ok, so I'm gonna kinda dumb this down to the level that I understand.

It was announced (I believe during the last lore corner) that the universe is shaped like a Torus, with the void being all space outside of it. However, I'm still a little fuzzy on the Abyss part. Freneskae and Gielinor are supposedly at opposite ends of the universe. Using the Torus Model, below, I imagine that the
Turquoise Dot
is Gielinor, and the
Purple Dot
is Freneskae. Using the hole in the center, I have theorized that that is both the beginning and end of existance, and why we can see stars in all directions.



Idk. If I'm wrong, let me know, or if I'm a complete idiot who doesn't understand astrophysics, call me a moron.

27-Jan-2017 02:35:30

Raleirosen
Jun Member 2019

Raleirosen

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Elf of Seren said:
Using the hole in the center, I have theorized that that is both the beginning and end of existance, and why we can see stars in all directions.
I have another theory: the Elders have nothing to do with the creation of the universe itself, including stars and other miscellaneous celestial bodies. All they do is travel along in a more or less linear direction while creating their worlds. Thus, a single "cycle" of the Elders doesn't correspond with the entire universe, but instead simply refers to a particular string of their creations. This would neatly sidestep a few of the astronomy-related headaches involved in elaborating on RuneScape's universe, I think.

I'm basing this in part on the lore corner's reveal that Jagex can go "more epic" than the Elders; from that, it's safe to assume that they aren't masters over the entire cosmos. I also can't remember if it's explicitly stated that Freneskae and Gielinor are on opposite ends of the universe or not... feel free to shoot my theory down if that's the case.
Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

27-Jan-2017 13:39:46 - Last edited on 27-Jan-2017 13:41:51 by Raleirosen

Deltaslug

Deltaslug

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- a wizard did it

- If you talk to the doorkeeper at Zanaris, he talks about how diamonds are used to make Fairy Lights (so maybe most of the stars we see are just enchanted diamonds to make the sky look pretty)

- the Elder Gods weren't always successful. so many of the stars might not have any planets
Guthix also mentioned in his memory that there were a great many planets in the cosmos that looked like they were wrecked, worried that Tuska had that voracious of an appetite, or that Tuska was just 1 of a swarm, or there was something worse out there

- it's possible that the Elders weren't even responsible for the stars themselves
they just found a star, and used it as an anchor to build a planet near.
so it's possible that stars formed naturally while even they slept

- there is an elder god responsible for building stars while the others focused on the planets

- Mod Elfbourne's comment about Elder Elder Gods could be true.
The Elder Elder gods take on a form so unfathomable, even the Elder Gods don't notice them (it would explain why Elfbourne is so wacky. he grasped but a mere glimpse of the even higher gods being and turned into ... well ... I mean ... why else would an elf have an interest in chocolate and a mound of bacon.)
The Elder Elder Gods create the universe in the sense of the whole actual universe, the Elder Gods build the objects within the universe much the same way they used the TokHaar to shape planets.
The Elder Gods might not even be aware of their function, and these whole cycles of revision are just part of an even grander design .........

27-Jan-2017 22:22:38 - Last edited on 27-Jan-2017 22:23:12 by Deltaslug

AesirWarrior
Jun Member 2019

AesirWarrior

Posts: 1,053Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
AttilaSquare said:
Mod Jack has said that they don't want to choose between the planetary model or the planar model. The planar model is older and more established in-game. Only the Tuska event explicitly suggests the planetary model, as far as I know.


For a time, I believed they might have abandoned the planar model, especially with things like Tuska, but recent updates like the Guthixian echoes makes it seem like they've come to accept it. Zanaris is referred to as the nexus of planes once again, and Tuska is an interdimensional predator.
-
I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

27-Jan-2017 23:10:00

Cthris
Jun Member 2019

Cthris

Posts: 5,193Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Raleirosen said:
Elf of Seren said:
Using the hole in the center, I have theorized that that is both the beginning and end of existance, and why we can see stars in all directions.
I have another theory: the Elders have nothing to do with the creation of the universe itself, including stars and other miscellaneous celestial bodies. All they do is travel along in a more or less linear direction while creating their worlds. Thus, a single "cycle" of the Elders doesn't correspond with the entire universe, but instead simply refers to a particular string of their creations. This would neatly sidestep a few of the astronomy-related headaches involved in elaborating on RuneScape's universe, I think.

I'm basing this in part on the lore corner's reveal that Jagex can go "more epic" than the Elders; from that, it's safe to assume that they aren't masters over the entire cosmos. I also can't remember if it's explicitly stated that Freneskae and Gielinor are on opposite ends of the universe or not... feel free to shoot my theory down if that's the case.


I came to the conclusion that the elder gods didn't create the universe as well, but not by the same method. The elder gods are corporeal beings, which means they need to occupy a body of space in order to exist (You cannot be suspended in nothing). But if they created the universe then there would be no body of space required to hold them until they created it. But this is a contradiction because they couldn't possibly have existed to create the universe without the body of space. Thus, the body of space must have existed before the elder gods, but this would mean the elder gods aren't creating a universe, but instead occupying the one they reside in.

28-Jan-2017 02:33:43 - Last edited on 28-Jan-2017 02:36:20 by Cthris

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