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Neo†Bestia

Neo†Bestia

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NOTE: As per the release of Fate of the Gods, I will be adding a new section to underline how Zaros is still pretty much the same cunning control freak. As of today (27), I've started adding the new sections. Added "The New Zaros" and another section from Sliske. Added a quote from FOT* podcast.

Reading the forums recently, I've been under the impression that the memories, especially the ones pertaining the Zarosian Empire have been taken at face value, and certain underlying comments made by the *ahjarrat could posses further analysis.

With this thread, I will contest the seeming perfection attributed to the Empire or the otherwise ignorance attributed to Zaros at the face of all the maladies the humans were suffering.

This will also attempt to dispel the notion that Zaros even cared enough to help or intervene and is a general criticism of some of Zaros's doing.

Whilst we know Zaros will probably not form another empire that does not mean that some of the doings on his previous one cannot be used to exemplify some of the characteristics the god himself possesses.

This will probably take some time to perfection or improve, so all comments are welcomed.

21-Mar-2014 00:28:27 - Last edited on 31-Mar-2014 03:36:59 by Neo†Bestia

Neo†Bestia

Neo†Bestia

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Zaros and the Demons

1. We learn from Sliske's Memory that

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Zaros offered the secrets of travel between the worlds, to allow the Chthonians to devour whole new races rather than be reduced to preying on each other.


Afterwards, the Chthonians Leader Hostilius tried to trick Zaros and then Zaros tricked him and so on, but Zaros was the first to offer demons access to other worlds so that they could devour other races, just so that he could fill his armies with demons to help in his cause.

That the Chthonian Head Honcho tried to betray Zaros doesn't excuse the god himself OFFERING the obliteration of other worlds just for a handful of demons.

The rest of the universe could be destroyed as long as Zaros could conquer Gielinor.

Lovely.

21-Mar-2014 00:28:40 - Last edited on 21-Mar-2014 02:15:23 by Neo†Bestia

Neo†Bestia

Neo†Bestia

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Sliske's Play

3. Ralvash says:

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Sliske, in particular, had always been playful, but the relative decadence of human society and near limitless power of our new positions provided an avenue for the very worst of his ***********. Sliske wrote and performed a play for the elite of Senntisten: the more urbane demons and the most powerful human merchants and bureaucrats.
Before the play he took unwanted humans from the streets of the city, dressed them in brightly coloured costumes, and placed upon each a crude wooden mask. At his command the masks spoke aloud and controlled the movements of the players, compelling them to jerkily act and dance and mime his play like puppets, with the person behind the mask able only to watch his own actions.[...]
The play was a hit with most of its audience and Sliske performed it a dozen times before growing bored and moving on to something else.[...]
Those who disliked it dared not voice their concern for fear of social disgrace or becoming victim to the inquisition of the Praetorians.


ZAROS gave positions of extreme power to people like Sliske, whose equals knew full well of his behaviour, but didn't call him out for fear of social disgrace or themselves becoming victims of cruel punishments.

In fact, if such action was disgraceful it really begs the question of what was normally acceptable at that time; we mustn't forget opposition put Ralvash and those who thought like him against a Secret Police which seemed to pretty much do anything it pleased.

And then Sliske got bored... and moved to something else... I'm sure it was saving puppies and picking daisies.

My point being, Zaros allowed free reign unto mostly megalomaniac psycho's and then even didn't care as to keep them in check.

But of course this wasn't his fault, he just wasn't told.

21-Mar-2014 00:28:59 - Last edited on 21-Mar-2014 01:55:44 by Neo†Bestia

Neo†Bestia

Neo†Bestia

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The Homeless

From Hazeel's memory:

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There is a law in the empire against consuming humans, but I do not think they keep it very well, and I do not think Zaros is aware of the violation. There are many forces that keep the streets of Senntisten clear of the homeless, and not all of them are economic.


Another display of the beauty of the Zarosian Empire.

From this we understand that the lack of homeless people was not due to just the amazing! economic conditions some zarosians claim, but more of a desire to transmit perfection which was not there. I believe we can know have a larger picture of what homeless people turned into:

A. Fodder for Sliske's Play House. Closely related to the innocence of The Mickey Mouse Playhouse most likely.

B. Fodder for Demons and other races.

C. Maybe fodder for the army.

Again, we notice the absence of Zaros who simply doesn't "know", "isn't aware", "isn't informed" of the atrocities being done.

21-Mar-2014 00:29:23 - Last edited on 21-Mar-2014 01:56:53 by Neo†Bestia

Neo†Bestia

Neo†Bestia

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Education

Mizzarch remembers:

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Though Zaros instructed the church to teach the whole population to read and write, it was economically impractical to do so for humans working in agricultural or industrial labour. Nevertheless the empire had a level of literacy that eclipsed that of any other god's people, with as many as one in five able to read and one in ten able to write.


If we consider that it was economically impractical for industrial or agricultural workmen, the majority (as the memories say most people seemed to concentrate on services to supply the cities), to be educated, we can actually deduce learning was actually a privilege bestowed on those who could be of use: it wasn't universal, it was exclusive and segregated.

If you were a lowly person, it didn't matter whether you could read and/or write.

Of course, one could argue it was much worse on the other gods, and that this critique would possibly repeat itself on the other Empires, but we are forgetting Zarosian empire had the MEANS and STABILITY to pursue widespread educational reform.

The zarosians had the resources to teach the masses: time, reasonable safety and stability, human resources, but refused at the face of "economic impracticalities". (Or probably hurting someone's purse).

AGAIN, Zaros mandated teaching to be enforced. AGAIN, this was not followed and Zaros didn't care/mind enough to sort this out.

21-Mar-2014 00:29:34 - Last edited on 21-Mar-2014 03:23:37 by Neo†Bestia

Neo†Bestia

Neo†Bestia

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Governance

5. Akthanakos recalls the arrival of Zaros on Gielinor and it's first impact:

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The arrival of thousands of demons, and the torture and imprisonment of their god, so intimidated the people of Senntisten that they didn't even try to fight. They bowed down in worship of their new ruler.


From this we can infer Zaros's worship established itself first as one of intimidation and subjugation. He ruled through the terror of his armies and their uncontrollable lust for destruction and warfare of his hoards.


6.

Azzanadra provides this small little quote:

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For centuries I have divined his [Zaros's] directives and governed the empire to his satisfaction.


Azzanadra basically says he was the one in charge of the Empire for centuries, guessing what Zaros wanted him to do. This correlates directly to the absentee picture we get of Zaros during most of his Empire, and further challenges the view that he ever cared much about the well-being of his people.

Yes, he did satisfy basic demands like food, water, sanitation, maybe housing, but at the cost of ignorance and insecurity to the common yolk, with oppression added to a heavy sense of abandonment.

Coupled with the rest of the sections, it shows Zaros as being generally unsympathetic about the plights of the bulk of his Empire (humans) and applying very little attention so that his rules would actually be enforced.

21-Mar-2014 00:29:45 - Last edited on 31-Mar-2014 03:38:02 by Neo†Bestia

Neo†Bestia

Neo†Bestia

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The "New" Zaros

With the release of Fate of the Gods, the possibly to question Zaros has now arisen.

Mod Rowley, upon being questioned why such an opportunity had gone amiss to point more clearly on Zaros's flaws has to say:


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Q: Why was the opportunity wasted to show Zaros in a more negative light?

Mod Rowley: I disagree that we didn't do this. Zaros has already been shown in a hugely negative light prior to this, and he's hardly going to show himself in too negative a light when he wants your help. That said, Zaros himself does highlight some of his own flaws, both directly (hubris, entitlement) and indirectly (standoffishness, arrogance, superiority, not giving you all the information). There are also unspoken suggestions as to Zaros's character that are less that positive (chopped up sentient creatures in the nihil arena suggesting what went into their creation). It could also be argued that everything he says to you during the quest is a manipulation - as such, your opinion of him going in is reflected back at you. Only time will tell if you made the right choice (regardless of which choice you made).


The rest of this post and those that follow will take a peek at Zaros's dialogue to argue the bolded parts (and probably more information which is not bolded).

Zaros and Sliske

When at Mahjarrat Memories were released, it was argued that Zaros didn't know the atrocious things Sliske was up to, indeed I was surprised by one line Zaros said at the end, and another sentence by Azzanadra.

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...no longer can I turn a blind eye to your disobedience, nor condone your methods.


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Sliske: Zaros wanting to know our every move? Our every thought? Letís just say Iím not looking forward to having to Ďfile reportsí again.

Azzanadra: As I recall, you always managed to do your own thing regardless.

Sliske: Yes, I suppose I did.

21-Mar-2014 00:29:57 - Last edited on 05-Apr-2014 01:36:58 by Neo†Bestia

Neo†Bestia

Neo†Bestia

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The first quote is from Zaros, and the second, Azzanadra.

Now, it would seem to suggest Zaros was turning a blind eye to Sliske's courses of actions as long as he got things done. Of course, it's really speculation if Zaros was talking about recent methods he does know about (The SOJ contest and killing Guthix) or much older, wicked actions (Such as Sliske's Plays as retold on the Mahjarrat Memories and partially quoted on this thread).

Now, Azzanadra is crystal clear: Sliske got away with the things he did, regardless of having to "file reports" (to whom one might ask? Sliske was basically head of the Secret Police, since Azzanadra was the one mostly running things, it seems evident it would have to either be him or Zaros himself). This shows and possibly confirms that Azzanadra knew of things Sliske was up to that weren't precisely "legal" (even by zarosian standards) and that he <Sliske> could act regardless of consequences (or with a slight tap on his hand). It worth pointing out that Azzanadra would then be an accomplice to Sliske (this also reinforces that it was shameful/social disgrace to call out a Mahjarrat).

Zaros's "Birthrights"

Zaros seems to be a god with a great entitlement. In fact, he reminds us of his divine right to rule throughout the quest. In fact, if we are to believe the latest podcast (fate of the Gods podcast, released Saturday 29th of March) Zaros...

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As an Elder God I don't think his interested necessarily in worlds. The Universe is a thing, it's just a place to put what he is interested in, which is life. As long as he is governing life, I don't think he cares what he does.

21-Mar-2014 00:30:07 - Last edited on 15-Apr-2014 01:20:14 by Neo†Bestia

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