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Lego Miester

Lego Miester

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Zaros.


"While his intentions may seem noble, his methods are questionable and his history tarnished. Whatever he might be, he is not Guthix."
-Juna

With CoM, we have seen Zaros for what he is, for better or worse, when he feels in control. When we first met him, he was very apologetic, kissing up to us no matter what we did or said to him because he felt he needed us as an ally to regain his body.

But now he's back and as bold as he was at the peak of his empire. It seems Zamorak being present at the party brought back some old grudges he insisted to have put behind him. We should've seen this coming when the first action he did with his reconnection with the world with Azzanadra's gate was to shatter a statue of Zamorak outside the chaos temple.

In the end he re-acquired Zamorak as a temporary pawn by promising something he said he was planning to do anyway. Very strategic of him.

What really stuck with me were some choice lines from their confrontation:

Zamorak: You have manipulated the desperate long enough! Empty Lord. Deceiver. I will not let history repeat itself!
Absolutely no refutation of "no, I'm trying to help the mahjarrat" from Zaros.

later...

Zamorak: If I am to die, the power you gave me will become theirs!
Zaros: What? No....

^--- Say what? You were saying you wanted to save the mahjarrat, yet when Zamorak does it for you you're angry? Either Zaros wasn't actually going to go through with the deal (just another empty promise) or he's not the solid rock of cold logic he said he was, and was furious to be deprived of his revenge, as it would have made Zamorak a martyr.

That was just some of my ramblings, but consider this the topic: How has CoM changed your perception of Zaros and Zamorak?
Headcanon Haven, where everything is made up and the points don't matter.
OSRS Lore: Xeric

11-Dec-2016 03:52:53 - Last edited on 11-Dec-2016 04:01:08 by Lego Miester

A Mad Hatter
Dec
fmod Member
2005

A Mad Hatter

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The only thing that changed was Zamorak earning my respect for willing to sacrifice himself for the Mahjarrat (even the Zarosians) when it came down to it. That sort of thing goes a long way with me even though I'm not in his faction.

But I always pegged Zaros for the type who was full of it. So him acting the way he did wasn't a surprise considering that the only people singing his praises to begin with were other Zarosians. That should be a huge red flag to anyone who was paying attention imo.
^+^ Antediluvian of the Draculesti Bloodline ^+^

^+^ If the Gods see fit to curse us with the Blood, then we shall raise ourselves above them ^+^

11-Dec-2016 04:18:25

BloodnSkulls

BloodnSkulls

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Zaros:
Pre-CoM, I considered myself super loyal to the guy, I'd do anything for him, no questions asked. I thought of him the way Azzanadra thought of him, as this amazing, awesome, One True God. Post-CoM, I've started to...remove these rose coloured glasses; I suspect Zaros wasn't who I thought he was. I used to think he really wanted to...*ahem* make the Mahjarrat race great again based on his FotG dialogue, but his actions in CoM...well, they speak for themselves. Seren's actions started the decline of a proud, glorious, unique irreplaceable race. The Mahjarrat rightfully call her out, and how does Zaros react? he stars white knighting her (way to show that you care about the Mahjarrat race, Zaros). And that got me wondering--are you that slavishly devoted to her? Is there anything you’d put before her? Are you really going to pick her over…whatever the other option was, no matter how important?

Zamorak:
Pre-CoM, I had a strawman view of him; I saw him as this 100% evil guy, who did evil things for the lulz, who betrayed Zaros because he wanted to destroy everything good in this world. Post-CoM, I'm more...sympathetic towards him, especially after his line "know that everything I did, it was for the Mahjarrat." How can I hate a guy who just wants to reverse the decline of his people? The Mahjarrat are on the brink of extinction (if Enakhra dies, it's all over), and especially after knowing that this guy gave it all for his tribe, how can I continue hating him?
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11-Dec-2016 04:58:21

Farming Egg
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2012

Farming Egg

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Zamorak has earned my respect, but it is still one of the gods I dislike the most. Yes, he was willing to give his power to all the Mahjarrat, and it is quite clear that everything he did in the end was to help them grow and improve themselves.

However, that doesn't take away from everything else he has done. The wilderness was created by him using the SoJ in what I see as a suicide attempt when he lost. This not only killed the few remaining troops he had left alive, but wiped out part of a continent and killed basically everything else living in the area.

He has also shown an inability to properly get his followers to follow his philosophy. Many of his followers see him as an evil god and act likewise. While this isn't entirely his fault with Saradomin's followers spreading many lies about what he actually stands for, he hasn't done anything significant since his return to try to change that.

Zaros on the other hand once has my support, but with every appearance he becomes more and more suspicious. I'm still willing to work with him but will take everything he says with a grain of salt, and if the option appears once the Elder gods are dealt with, I will kill him. If the option to kill him comes up in SE I may take it, depending on the situation.

11-Dec-2016 04:58:48

Hguoh
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2014

Hguoh

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No refutation of Zamorak's accusation? Guess I just imagined this:

Zaros: Oh, but it is repeating itself. I will make sure it is different this time though, Zamorak.

This:

Zaros: Have I not also suffered? Neither of us had tasted defeat before; we were both so arrogant we believed ourselves invincible. We are changed now, Zamorak. Both of us.

This:

Zaros: I know how to free them, Zamorak. I know how to free you.

And this:

Zaros: No, Zamorak. You are wrong. Always so blinded by hatred. Here, let me show you how I can use the ritual mark to channel Mah's energy into Khazard-

What was that about Zaros not telling Zammy he was trying to help the Mahjarrat?

As for the bit about Zaros being upset that somebody else was saving the Mahjarrat, do I really need to point out that Zamorak's actions would have been a stopgap at best (Mah would have still been draining them)? And is it that hard to believe that Zaros may have held off on eliminating Zamorak for other reasons:

Zaros: Your self-sacrifice instills devotion in your kin... Somehow, in opposition to everything I try to build - everything I try to give - you stand against me. And it inspires others to do the same. I will not make you a martyr.

11-Dec-2016 05:55:21

Lego Miester

Lego Miester

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Hguoh said:
No refutation of Zamorak's accusation? Guess I just imagined this:

Zaros: Oh, but it is repeating itself. I will make sure it is different this time though, Zamorak.


I mean he gets there eventually, but he starts off mostly with threats and intimidation tactics. The same sort of things he used to try to control Zamorak at the throne room.

He had an opportunity to defuse the situation by explaining himself, and didn't. He wanted to kill Zamorak. Only later in the conversation did Zaros shift to "maybe I can still get some use out of him" and swapped to sympathy mode to try to win him over.

I'm still rereading and analyzing it from transcripts and youtube videos, which is why I waited a while before posting this thread so stuff like that was available.
Headcanon Haven, where everything is made up and the points don't matter.
OSRS Lore: Xeric

11-Dec-2016 07:32:31 - Last edited on 11-Dec-2016 07:34:08 by Lego Miester

Hazeel

Hazeel

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Zaros is more or less the same to me. He doesn't care for the Mahjarrat and was merely using them. No surprises there. He's manipulative and shady--expected. I can't say my view has changed. There isn't much to say here.

Zamorak...I'd say my view on him isn't tarnished or improved, but it is different.

Zamorak is a bit more surprising. Before now, he was always built up by J Mods (mostly Jack) as someone who might not be the strongest, but had a lot of skill to make up for this and wanted to build up his followers, but was still self centered as his philosophy may suggest. That was not the case.

As far as in game canon goes, he's a powerful but talentless fighter with a bleeding heart. He didn't actually fight Zaros, he just got lucky--Viggora was spot on with the nature of the fight even if he didn't get the details right. Zamorak was completely outmatched and it all came down to luck. Likewise, he doesn't seem capable of anything but throwing kamehamehas at his opponets and trying to win with brute force, no matter how illogical that is. In addition, he is far more emotional than I thought he would be jumping to save his people and give Zaros whatever he wants without even asking for a specific demand or setting conditions. Not to mention he's so self sacrificing that he's practically a lemming. At this point, part of me thinks he wants to die, that he wants to be a martyr, a hero, someone who inspires others, rather than taking the mantle of "the strongest" for himself.

His emotional tendencies make the whole thing with Khazard more...intriquing. Maybe he really felt lonely after all these years and wanted to be a Daddy? It wouldn't surprise me at this point.

With that said, he's hardly the awe inspiring warrior he was painted out to be, but I can't complain about having a God who shows a willingness to die for me, rather than expecting me to die for him like so many other Gods.
Runescape doesn't need a hero...it needs a villain. An all encompassing force of evil that will remain ever-threatening and use chaos to make the peoples of Gielinor tolerate each other, grow strong together, and fight side by side against this evil. I am that villain.

11-Dec-2016 08:12:06

Ancient Drew
Jun Member 2019

Ancient Drew

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I will admit Zaros was a dick in the Empire days. But that's to be expected when he had never been betrayed before, never knew anyone more powerful than him except Mah, and had that loyalty aura. Ask yourself; if you had all those things, and the only things you properly learned before reaching Gielinor were from demons, would you be much different? I'm not saying he's perfect, he's just a normal person under those circumstances.

If anything, the entire Sixth Age including CoM just comes to show that nobody is perfect. If you're gonna hate anything and everything that has done even the tiniest little thing that's off, then you might as well kill everyone and watch the universe burn. Then you become worse than the 'evil' gods and people themselves. Take note, Kara-Meir.

Let's be honest, everyone does something that contradicts their views and what they preach, maybe because they have to. Does that make them a hypocrite? Let's look at Zamorak for example; he preaches that chaos sets people free. What about those of his followers who keep slaves, are they going against everything Zamorakian by doing that? And what if the chaos ends up consuming the strong and they die? Then they won't grow.

I'm staying Zarosian not because I see him as perfect - I know he isn't - but because his philosophy advocates logic and solving problems, something I like doing.
Prepare for hell on RuneScape in Naval Cataclysm!

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11-Dec-2016 08:47:50

Solanumtinkr
Jul Member 2009

Solanumtinkr

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Zamorak's motives are now clear he is in it for the Mahjarrat. While they were in danger that made him a potential ally. If they are truly safe now and their number start to grow, it is time for an arms race to balance the scales. War probably figures in there with their past *sigh* Time to evict the squatters?

Zaros is in it for Zaros. If his lips are moving then he is probably lying if they don't then he's hiding something from you. I think his professed end goal is suicidal, but I have other potential allies and Zaros will make a nice distraction. We just need to make sure he doesn't cause too much damage...

I think Zaros may try to nudge the Mahjarrat into supporting his goals. It just seesm to me that Zaros wants an Empty Throne with the Throne Empire controlled from the shadows. He may say he just wants people to reach their full potential and that the Empire was an error, but if he wants to become fate then he is just trying to make a new Empire that encompasses everything and everyone in a way where he can still pull the strings and stay safe.
The purpose of adventure is to shine light into dark places,
Poke monsters with a sharp stick, Then steal anything that isn't nailed down!
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11-Dec-2016 09:02:47

Ancient Drew
Jun Member 2019

Ancient Drew

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Solanumtinkr said:
I think Zaros may try to nudge the Mahjarrat into supporting his goals. It just seesm to me that Zaros wants an Empty Throne with the Throne Empire controlled from the shadows. He may say he just wants people to reach their full potential and that the Empire was an error, but if he wants to become fate then he is just trying to make a new Empire that encompasses everything and everyone in a way where he can still pull the strings and stay safe.
He says that stuff in his memoriam device as well. Sorry but it makes little sense to write lies in a diary.
Prepare for hell on RuneScape in Naval Cataclysm!

Pokemon battle? Friend Code: 4614-0426-2439

11-Dec-2016 09:05:21

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