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Love, Nature or Fate?

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Ancient Drew
Jun Member 2019

Ancient Drew

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I have created this thread to discuss three powers which I believe at the very least should be respected. These powers play their part in all philosophies and factions, and factor in everyday life so Unaligned players find them too. They are:

- Love
- Nature
- Fate

The god I follow, Zaros, is considered a deity of fate, but in my opinion at least recognises love and nature as well. He makes positive comments to those who side with Sharrigan in One of a Kind by saying that Hannibus should have time with his own kind, even though he may agree with those siding with Kerapac and letting Hannibus enter stasis. And he has genuine sibling feelings for Seren in spite of being aware that the love she instils as part of her pheromone ability is addictive.

If there was a ratio between these three forces, which do you think would fit each god? Please feel free to post your opinions on this.
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24-Jun-2016 14:34:03

Cthris

Cthris

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How did you come to the idea that love, nature and fate are powers? What do you even mean by nature? Like grass and plants and stuff, or the tendency for beings to do things the same way they have always done in the past?

Love is also a tricky one. I assume you aren't referring to that neural transmitter stew that we like to call "crushes" or "falling in love" but rather the long term reconstruction of the brains neural system caused small doses of oxytocin, which can be triggered by being intimate or close to someone, or just taking drugs, which in turn, typically results in people behaving in more altruistic/loving manners to their partners.

So yeah sure, you could call the whole concept a power since it allows the human brain to act in certain way it other wise would not. But imo, calling love a power would be as silly sounding as calling oxygen deprivation a power.

Then of course there is fate. Now this one is highly problematic. The first thing you should probably establish is wether you are talking about cause and effect fate, or prophecy fate.

Prophecy fate is the idea that you are born with a purpose and that the universe is working towards some grand sceme. In real life this is kind of silly imo since quantum mechanics show that objects in the quantum level are inherently random and do not fallow cause and effect. Now of course the quantum level is very very small, and thus would not likely have any meaningful impact on the cause and effect relationship that governs our world for at least a lifetime, though likely way more.

Cause and effect fate is simply the idea that since the universe is governed by cause and effect, humans would thus be too. So all of our actions would be the consequences of actions in the past, and those actions would be the consequences of actions prior to them, and so on and so on. Of course quantum mechanics would ***** the results a bit, but presumably not enough to give us free will.

24-Jun-2016 16:04:16 - Last edited on 24-Jun-2016 16:24:34 by Cthris

Cthris

Cthris

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To expand on why prophecy fate would not work in the real world. A higher powers ability to predict events would become less reliable as time went on and on and thus could not create purposes for people or aim for some grand scheme.

(Yes, I did referred to time as linear in my explanation for clarity, technically yes all of the universes time would be created at a single instance in time. This doesn't make it any easier to predict events because the quantum mechanics would ***** it all up.)

For the record nihilism, a more or less famous philosophy probably doesn't care much for love and definitely doesn't care for prophecy fate.

24-Jun-2016 16:21:56

Raleirosen
Jun Member 2019

Raleirosen

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Ancient Drew said:
The god I follow, Zaros, is considered a deity of fate, but in my opinion at least recognises love and nature--

no
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25-Jun-2016 05:06:57 - Last edited on 25-Jun-2016 05:07:13 by Raleirosen

Lego Miester

Lego Miester

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I think it'd be more accurate to say Zaros has gotten very good at faking emotion, as well as just naturally tending to say what you want to hear as part of his subtle manipulation built into his being. Not to say he's necessarily doing it on purpose, and I doubt anything he's saying are lies. But, in his own words, "there are some truths for which you are not yet ready."

Seren seems to lie almost diametrically opposed, running very strongly on emotion rather than cold, calculated decisions. That doesn't make her stupid or weaker, just different.

I suppose you could say one runs on love, and the other on fate, and it is simply their nature. To tie back to the title.
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25-Jun-2016 06:16:04 - Last edited on 25-Jun-2016 06:19:27 by Lego Miester

iXavior

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I would switch Fate with control/freedom for a better word. I don't see how "all factions" exert "fate," but each exert a different amount of freedom and control.

For armadyl, he doesn't really care about nature or anything to do with the well-being of Gielinor's anima. He loves his followers most certainly. He tries not to limit freedom, lets his followers live as free as possible.

Zamorakianism has no "love" and certainly does not care about "nature," since Zamorak was not hesitant to blow up Forinthry.
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25-Jun-2016 08:08:11

Solanumtinkr
Jul Member 2009

Solanumtinkr

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I'd have gone with Anima, Spirit and..Sentience? Though the game would label Sentience under Mortality or Mortals, as in self aware beings. Though my first choice was Life, but life could come under Anima as would magic.

But trying to find a power trio is not easy, though that trio does have the best Anima generation and Nature would fit under Anima or life. But It really depends on what your starting criteria is at the end of the day as to what makes the trio viable.
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25-Jun-2016 08:28:32

Ancient Drew
Jun Member 2019

Ancient Drew

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Lego Miester said:
I think it'd be more accurate to say Zaros has gotten very good at faking emotion, as well as just naturally tending to say what you want to hear as part of his subtle manipulation built into his being. Not to say he's necessarily doing it on purpose, and I doubt anything he's saying are lies. But, in his own words, "there are some truths for which you are not yet ready."

Seren seems to lie almost diametrically opposed, running very strongly on emotion rather than cold, calculated decisions. That doesn't make her stupid or weaker, just different.

I suppose you could say one runs on love, and the other on fate, and it is simply their nature. To tie back to the title.
It's possible that Zaros had at times confused his true emotions with faking it, due to being aware that his sister gave off an addictive feeling of love. Hence his saying, "Love is her way of chaining us Seren. You know that better than most." I think he does actually wish for her to be safe, and Seren confesses loving Zaros as her brother in spite of stricturing him to us after TLW (funnily enough she never says anything bad about him in her memoriam device, and instead comments on how the Empire had ensured peace for Tirannwn which may have been coincidence or Zaros trying to stay away from her at the time).

Confusing true emotions with a mask put on could be a natural response to Zaros and Seren's situation. They were both created by Mah with pheromone abilities that instil loyalty and love, and ironically they ended up resenting the influence they had on each other. An influence that was quite unnecessary and counter-productive for a family. Fate gave this family a sad ending, nature dictated that the siblings were to fight the influence of their pheromones, and in spite of that they do seem to love each other as they're still family which both Zaros and Seren recognise.
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25-Jun-2016 14:30:25

Raleirosen
Jun Member 2019

Raleirosen

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Ancient Drew said:
It's possible that Zaros had at times confused his true emotions with faking it, due to being aware that his sister gave off an addictive feeling of love. Hence his saying, "Love is her way of chaining us Seren. You know that better than most." I think he does actually wish for her to be safe, and Seren confesses loving Zaros as her brother in spite of stricturing him to us after TLW (funnily enough she never says anything bad about him in her memoriam device, and instead comments on how the Empire had ensured peace for Tirannwn which may have been coincidence or Zaros trying to stay away from her at the time).

Confusing true emotions with a mask put on could be a natural response to Zaros and Seren's situation. They were both created by Mah with pheromone abilities that instil loyalty and love, and ironically they ended up resenting the influence they had on each other. An influence that was quite unnecessary and counter-productive for a family. Fate gave this family a sad ending, nature dictated that the siblings were to fight the influence of their pheromones, and in spite of that they do seem to love each other as they're still family which both Zaros and Seren recognise.

Again, no. For one, you're treating Seren and Zaros as if they were human beings, when we know that they are true divine beings that exist on a separate scale. Applying concepts of family/loyalty/pheremones/whatever to them is utterly illogical.

Second, I don't think Zaros is even capable of the kind of colossal self-deception you're describing. He's lived for countless eons, most of which were spent countless light years away from Seren. I highly doubt he would be unable to perform the basic introspection necessary to distinguish emotions (that are, of course, relatively alien to us) from one another, as if he were some middle-aged psychiatric patient.
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26-Jun-2016 05:29:08 - Last edited on 26-Jun-2016 05:31:39 by Raleirosen

Ancient Drew
Jun Member 2019

Ancient Drew

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Raleirosen said:
Again, no. For one, you're treating Seren and Zaros as if they were human beings, when we know that they are true divine beings that exist on a separate scale. Applying concepts of family/loyalty/pheremones/whatever to them is utterly illogical.

Second, I don't think Zaros is even capable of the kind of colossal self-deception you're describing. He's lived for countless eons, most of which were spent countless light years away from Seren. I highly doubt he would be unable to perform the basic introspection necessary to distinguish emotions (that are, of course, relatively alien to us) from one another, as if he were some middle-aged psychiatric patient.
I never said that Zaros is actually like that, I said that it may have been the case in the past. Time spent in the company of certain people in life isn't measured in fixed quantities. Instead it's about the proportion of time against the rest of their life, and how early such events happened in their lives. How long did Zaros and Seren spend together on Freneskae? In this case, they were effectively kids in the memory Seren showed us in TLW. This can be seen with Zaros expressing more emotion than he does nowadays, and to them it can be seen as a typical squabble between siblings.

Technically, Zaros and Seren are still kids in a sense. Zaros still desires to grow in power and intelligence and transcend to an Elder, which is the only state stronger than himself. He can view transcending as maturing in this sense. Also, Seren still experiences protective emotions towards the elves which she grew attached to, and views them as part of her family. Also, both have a sense of innocent curiosity to them, as Zaros wants to study mortals growing and Seren wishes to nurture them. Feel free to check a thread which I created, Mah: The Mother Child, for a further hypothesis on their personalities and how they may have inherited such traits from her.
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26-Jun-2016 15:32:26

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