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Is it really "Magic?"

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iXavior

iXavior

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When we conjure up fire or turn a cat into gold, is it really magic? Or science? What is the definition of magic? The ability to enact change? Anything we consider unexplainable?

The Player for example considers cave gobin technology a form of magic, when the reality it is plain science. We call, in real life, what would be considered a light bulb, which is powered by electricity, a magical "light orb" in-game. Basically, the player defines anything abnormal and out-of-the-ordinary "magic." Basic medieval-century mentality. Magic = anything unexplainable.

Other people may define magic as the manipulation of anima. But sadly, this definition is not approved by a few individuals, like Wen's mouthpiece and Kennith. According to Kennith, we call our ability to conjure up fire, water, etc. "magic" because we don't understand the inner mechanisms of it. In other words, it is not true magic. We humans call it magic simply because we couldn't explain it. Now that we realize our abilities to conjure tornadoes and stuff is with the help of the anima going through a process, is it really magic? It sounds more like science to me.

Again with crystal magic. Is it really considered magic? Crystal magic is basically turning crystal into different form. Crystal is sentient, a living being. It obeys your voice and frequency and warps itself according to it. I don't see anything magical about that. It's like a robot waiting for a command. Yet, just because crystal can change shapes, Gielinorians consider it magic?

Once we understand how something works and all the inner mechanisms of it, is it really magic anymore, or has it turned to science? Magic is suppose to be an anomaly...the unexplainable...the occult. What we do in game in manipulating elements of the anima behaves more like chemists messing with periodic elements and causing explosions and synthesizing drugs. This is not magic. It is science, just on a different level.
I worship Mah, for she is mah homegirl! The correct adjective for Mah's followers are: Mahomies, Mah-homeboys, or Mah-homegirls.

20-Jun-2016 12:06:55 - Last edited on 20-Jun-2016 12:13:35 by iXavior

iXavior

iXavior

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If fire spontaneously comes out of a dragon's mouth, with no rational explanation, I'd consider that magic. But if there is some long science-y explanation involving gastric chemical reactions, it's no longer magic now, is it? What we consider in-game to be "magic" can be explained, rationally. Therefore, it shouldn't be called magic. It should be called anima-bending or something. What we do can be defined as more of a superpower than "magic."

Discuss.
I worship Mah, for she is mah homegirl! The correct adjective for Mah's followers are: Mahomies, Mah-homeboys, or Mah-homegirls.

20-Jun-2016 12:18:58 - Last edited on 20-Jun-2016 12:23:49 by iXavior

Maiden China
Jan Member 2019

Maiden China

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My thought is that it's caled magic because the vast majority of people on't understand it... and the people who do understand it are perfectly happy to keep that word because it makes them look powerful and mystic and whatever

and the people who use it and don't understand it, like us (and like people who use computers without understanding them) just call it magic because everyone else does
Carn

21-Jun-2016 00:14:18

AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

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I'm not sure if science and magic necessarily have to be mutually exclusive. The way I see it Magic could just be an extra force in the universe that doesn't adhere to the traditional laws of nature... Does the fact that you can understand it not make it Magic anymore? Maybe, but I don't think it ever was a very well defined thing in the first place. I've found that "magic" and "gods" are so loosely defined that it's almost impossible to say for certain what is and isn't.


What is a god?

What is magic?

Can you honestly give a universal answer to those two questions?
-
I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

21-Jun-2016 02:06:09

Lego Miester

Lego Miester

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Magic is a funny thing, especially in runescape. It literally is what we don't understand. As in the less you understand it, the better you are at it. Kennith or the Wandering Ga'al are both able to simply conjure incredible power on a whim without runes. The Ga'al even literally made up a new teleport spell simply by wanting it to happen. By being hollow shells, the Ga'al may be the most powerful wizards in canon.

Ignorance isn't just bliss, it's a superpower.
Headcanon Haven, where everything is made up and the points don't matter.
OSRS Lore: Xeric

21-Jun-2016 04:43:35

Healthorg

Healthorg

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The only real distinction when it comes to magic is anima.

I sincerely believe that magic is an unintentional force (that may or may not tie in to a certain possibility regarding the Stone of Jas, but this isn't the topic to discuss that,) marked by the use of anima. Even prayer is derived from anima, in a loose sense. (If you can, read Necrovarus' notes from the Halloween event. They're quite good.)

The 'ignorance is power' statement isn't debunked, but explained differently with the Idle Adventures game.* The villagers of Draynor seem fairly incompetent, but as Sally weaves her way through, the collective anima circulation improves with the villagers' skills.

It's not a case of 'the less you understand', I think it's simply the case that those with high potential anima do eventually unlock ways to utilize that anima, making them biased to certain skills. (Which isn't efficient for one's own anima output, but that's another story.)

I can't say anything for Kenneth, because Salt in the Wound was a cop-out, but one of the whole points of the TzHaar series was to show that the Ga'al were useful to society and had high potential outside of rigid TzHaar traditions. I don't think their high potential is a coincidence given that they're 'descended' from an Elder Artifact. (And given that Mod Stu is the one who created Ful and wants desperately to come back to her story, I doubt the subject of the Ga'al would be untouched.)

Finally, one more thing to get off of my chest: I think the World Guardian's nigh-omnipotence can be boiled down to cosmic luck. As an adventurer, they traveled the entire western half of the world in much the same way Sally is now doing, raising their skills and reaching their highest potential. But not only are they one of the most well-rounded of all characters in terms of skill, they were in the exact correct place to become the World Guardian, having their role as one of the most skillful people on the planet validated.

21-Jun-2016 10:36:20 - Last edited on 21-Jun-2016 10:38:55 by Healthorg

Healthorg

Healthorg

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*(I must state that I am not breaking NDA; I'm referring to the discussion between Sally and Farmer Fred at the start of the game, which was shown publicly at the Summer Summit. Also, I ran out of lines. Oops.)

Does Idle Adventures even still have any NDA?

21-Jun-2016 10:40:01 - Last edited on 21-Jun-2016 10:40:38 by Healthorg

Sepulchre
Feb Gold Premier Club Member 2019

Sepulchre

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I'll put it in a way that I believe is the easiest to understand. Ariane says magic comes from the Anima in the world. Zaros says that magic comes from within the living being who performs it. Wen*ra says magic is a "trace of her [Wens, probably the Elders in general] power. ... You wield it, bound in tiny stones. Your mind names it 'magic,' a word that in no way reflects the power you seek to emulate!" Though the Wen*ra is the mouthpiece of Wen, it's noted that it is NOT Wen herself speaking, merely a creation of Wen. Thus, the Wen*ra is capable of error or giving slanted truths.
I believe that, in a way, all of them are right. I believe it was Zaros who also said that living beings spawned from the imperfect anima of each world, the anima somehow shaping how they looked, acted, etc. I would say the truth is this:
All living things not created purposely by the Elder Gods are made of anima. The anima itself represents the power of the Elder Gods, as it is their creation. What we refer to as "magic" is actually using a small portion of the anima energy in us. Runes, as pointed out by Wen*ra, are a way to "wield" the power of the Elder Gods; what this means is that Runestones themselves are ways to control that power.. to focus the power the way we want it. Without them, we would be using far more anima energy.
Guthix used the Catalyst to create Rune essence, and the areas where the Catalyst stayed for long enough periods of time also eventually became rune essence. From there, we gather it and then take it to a specific altar to transform it into whatever rune that altar is related to. Nobody knows where the Runecrafting Altars come from, but my theory goes on the idea that Guthix created the "pocket dimensions" and stored the altars there, infused with different types of anima powers for use by mortals without his divine powers. In a way, the Catalyst is what was used to create "magic," and is the source of Runestones all over Gielinor.
A
World Guardian
must learn to find
Balance
in themselves.
Only then can they
Control
themselves and forge their own
Fate.

22-Jun-2016 07:21:07

Sepulchre
Feb Gold Premier Club Member 2019

Sepulchre

Posts: 3,505Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Now you might be thinking "Doesn't the fact that the Catalyst creates runes mean runes are the source of magic, or the 'Elder God's power' as Wen*ra called it?" but I can tell you we have obvious proof to prove that wrong. Magic without runes is used by beings who have had no contact with the Stone, or with any Elder Artifact for that matter. Kennith is a good example, and there's also the case of the Moonclan. Saradomin and Zamorak were able to use magic with no runes, despite not being in contact with the Catalyst for thousands of years. There's also the fact that when the World Guardian touches the Catalyst and channels its power, we still need runes to use magical combat. This even happened BEFORE Guthix made us unable to absorb it.
Think about this for a moment; The Great Revision. The Elder Gods are born anew, they go to the Elder Halls, absorb all the anima from their "perfect" world, then go to create new worlds until they create a "perfect" world. Cycle begins again. Why exactly would the Elders need to rest, then eat their own creation upon rebirth? Because the worlds themselves are made of the Elder Gods power. The Elders only need to consume the anima because the anima is their life force, and the "perfect" world has the richest, most energizing anima. This still leaves a question or two unanswered, though.
Back to the Magic. The reason for the mention of the Great Revision is because this proves that Wen*ra is supporting my point. Only beings with high amounts of divine energy (gods), or other curious individuals are able to use magic without runes. The Catalyst creates rune essence. Rune essence becomes a Runestone. Through the use of Runestones, we emulate the power of the Elders by controlling the anima energy within us. Wen*ra doesn't mean anima energy is emulating their power, it means that controlling that energy with focused conduits (runestones) to certain uses of anima is how we "emulate" their power.
A
World Guardian
must learn to find
Balance
in themselves.
Only then can they
Control
themselves and forge their own
Fate.

22-Jun-2016 07:43:08 - Last edited on 22-Jun-2016 07:55:52 by Sepulchre

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