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Vandinite
Nov Gold Premier Club Member 2018

Vandinite

Posts: 122Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hi, i'm here to touch an issue with Runescape's system which is the interaction between IP detection and VPN's. The way the IP detection system works, is any incoming IP address which differs from the previous IP address previously used for said person(s), becomes flagged as fraudulent, most likely more prevelantly seen when an IP changes during the same instance from my knowledge. Which is all the main issue. VPN's are extremely important, for cyber attacks which for VPN's case covers mostly data collection, Wi-Fi spoofing, honeypot attacks, firesheep, really just a wide array of very important things to look out for and seek to be protected from. So it's no surprise that there are millions of users with VPN services. The problem mentioned is that the way VPN protects you from these things, is that it changes your IP (and many VPN services have other protection mechanics as well), this means that it will itself flag said person's using it's IP as fraudulent.

This is not unseen, there are many Runecape threads created for it, and not just on Runescape forums, I advise others to google search it, it's a problem well in the making of over a year now, which is ridiculous that it's been a problem for so long. People should not be punished for using a service that protects their personal data and Wi-Fi from breaches for example, but this is the case for Jagex. People's accounts have been locked left and right including mine. Some people recover their accounts fine, but some people have troubles recovering their account or CAN'T. And it isn't their fault because their account was locked for a (presumptive breach), a false positive, to be specific a detection of a separate IP that was detected. And this is the problem, people pay for their membership, and there's nothing they can outright do if they logged in and used it previously, because in Runescape's terms of refunds, you cannot get a refund for membership after you have used it. (1/2)
Change isn't going to come to you. Take control of your life.

11-Aug-2019 01:51:45 - Last edited on 11-Aug-2019 02:07:03 by Vandinite

Vandinite
Nov Gold Premier Club Member 2018

Vandinite

Posts: 122Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Which itself is a vague statement and covers any amount of time of use, which means it doesn't matter how long you've used up your membership, and in general, even if you haven't used up all of your membership, A SERVICE THAT YOU PAYED FOR, person(s) are blocked from using this service, some are UNABLE to recover using it, and Runescape does not offer a refund.

Which truly shows the important nature, there was a false positive, Runescape's system detected something fraudulent when there wasn't and blocked you from using the service you payed for. And for the rightful owners who can't successfully appeal this service, Runescape does not offer a refund. This is theft. To deny someone access to something they payed for when there was no rightful reason to do so, that is theft. So, it's really important to emphasize that nature, so that Jagex can see how important it is in their case.

Which seems to all boil down to one thing - in those instances they are using actual theft on people who have payed for membership and have done nothing wrong. They need to do something. It's paramount that some system is implemented to detect not only varying incoming IP addresses, but also to detect VPN use, so that the varying IP addresses are not innately flagged as fraudulent, and people are not effected to the point where they are required to either yield a previous e-mail or otherwise have extensive, EXTREMELY specific information about the account.

But some of these accounts are years old, people are not perfect clearly. Which is why you should be understanding that for the people which have missed many of these things, and are unable to recover it, but you took this service away from them wrongfully, you're responsible to acknowledge that is by definition a form of theft, Jagex, at least the only instance where it isn't is the vague terms, so I should disclaim the definity of the term theft is subjective. BUT how might it make you look, Jagex? (2/2)
Change isn't going to come to you. Take control of your life.

11-Aug-2019 02:06:38 - Last edited on 11-Aug-2019 02:06:53 by Vandinite

Vandinite
Nov Gold Premier Club Member 2018

Vandinite

Posts: 122Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
TLDR; Runescape harms users for using VPN's, and in some cases it is irreversible for said users for reasons mentioned above; regardless of them paying money to Jagex and it not being the user's fault; at all. Even after they payed for service, which is theft, only barely evaded by definition based on their terms, but this certainly does not make Jagex look bad and I hope people who use VPN's (which mind you there are millions of users) will instead avoid based on that; until a solution is found. Now that would be quite a loss of playerbase, wouldn't it.

It is a major problem.
Change isn't going to come to you. Take control of your life.

11-Aug-2019 02:26:29

Vandinite
Nov Gold Premier Club Member 2018

Vandinite

Posts: 122Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Add on; important, please read this!!!!

If your insinuation is that they should be able to lock accounts regardless of millions using VPN's, and many of those people not being able to recover their accounts because they lost their details, but using a VPN was not described in Runescape's rules under https://www.runescape.com/game-guide/rules, but also that the account CAN'T get a refund because of Jagex's no-refund policy after membership has been used any...could you explain your reasoning?

Let me explain clearly; there was no breaking of rules, nowhere in Runescapes rules does it describe using a VPN, and then Jagex takes this service THAT YOU PAYED ACTUAL MONEY FOR for something that wasn't described in the rules. Now it should be noted that this is a lock if the user wasn't banned, that wasn't revoking the account. But i'm talking about the users that can't recover their locked account because they lost their details. Which there are many. Read Runescape's forums on people not having sufficient details and Runescape's subreddit and even Runescape's Facebook, if users did even go out of their way to report it through those three outlets. It's a lot. And MILLIONS use VPN's. This specific situation isn't addressed by Jagex officially, someone having their account locked by VPN use, not being able to recover their account by losing details, and this seems to leave a gap and uncertainty in legality.

They took the service away from the user, many users lose their account details, it happens, people have accounts for years, they lose papers they wrote in, after months or weeks or whatever. It doesn't matter, there's a lot. And millions use VPN's. They didn't break the rules. They can't recover their account. They paid for membership. BUT THEY CAN'T GET A REFUND. Note that Runescape states there is a no refund policy for membership used AT ALL. This is theft. Ergo if you think they should be able to do this, they should be required to give a refund for it....
Change isn't going to come to you. Take control of your life.

11-Aug-2019 04:45:32

Vandinite
Nov Gold Premier Club Member 2018

Vandinite

Posts: 122Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
ONLY to the original payment type, of course, what the original user used. So they KNOW it would not be what was presumed as a hacker's payment. There, a simple solution on that end. Change isn't going to come to you. Take control of your life.

11-Aug-2019 04:47:19

Vissor

Vissor

Posts: 11Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
In the Terms & Conditions it reads

17. Third party sites and technologies

JAGEX PRODUCTS MAY INCLUDE LINKS TO INTERNET SITES OR OTHER TECHNOLOGIES SUPPLIED BY THIRD PARTIES INCLUDING SITES/TECHNOLOGIES WHICH ENABLE YOU TO PAY BY MEANS OF PAYMENT METHODS PROVIDED BY THIRD PARTIES. WE MAKE NO PROMISES ABOUT THOSE SITES OR THEIR CONTENT, PRODUCTS OR SERVICES AS THESE ARE OUTSIDE OUR REASONABLE CONTROL.

ANY THIRD PARTY SITES OR TECHNOLOGIES SUGGESTED ARE NOT ENDORSED, CONTROLLED OR VERIFIED BY JAGEX. JAGEX DOES NOT GUARANTEE THAT ANY SUGGESTED TECHNOLOGIES WILL WORK ON YOUR COMPUTER OR BE VIRUS FREE. ANY SUGGESTIONS MADE ARE NOT A WARRANTY OF ANY KIND AND JAGEX IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY DISRUPTION, PROBLEM, DAMAGE, DATA LOSS, COST OR INCONVENIENCE CAUSED BY THE SUGGESTED SITES OR TECHNOLOGIES. JAGEX WILL NOT PROVIDE SUPPORT FOR ANY SITES OR TECHNOLOGIES WHICH ARE NOT ITS OWN. JAGEX EXERCISES NO CONTROL OVER THE COPYRIGHT, PATENT OR TRADEMARK COMPLIANCE OR LEGALITY OF THE SUGGESTED SITES OR TECHNOLOGIES.

So your tech didn't work with there tech and they are not responsible for any disruption,problem,damage,data loss,or the inconvenience caused by the said technologies... atleast thats what i get out of that one. But relax send your ticket in any see what happens.

11-Aug-2019 11:33:48

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