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Expoits with 'reaper' + Solak

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Uriel
Aug Gold Premier Club Member 2010

Uriel

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Hey all,

Ever since the 'Reaper' title was announced and released, PvM wasn't to a very advanced level yet. Angel of Death was the strongest boss for a long time during the Title's existance. While AoD had no limit to the amount of players, Telos was a mandatory solo boss, meaning that it was designed to be conquerable all on your own.

But then came a boss that cursed the whole existance of the Reaper title, and granted new tools for the high PvM community to monopolize on; Solak. Solak is a tier 92 boss that has a limit on how many players can be in the instance. This made him extremely difficult as numbers did no longer equate to kill chance. While this design on its own is fine, it brought along something that should never happen; Accessibility monopilization.

Defeating Solak is a requirement for a stat-increasing buff, and was before the comp rework a requirement for the Completionist Cape. Defeating Solak gives you a statistical buff, rather than just vanity, meaning that there was a giant PURPOSE to defeating Solak. But where's demand, there is money.

This resulted in high amounts of the PvM community to resort to a new practice; selling Leeches. (What are leeches? You essentially BUY a kill from them, but even if they get a drop, you're forfeit, you will ONLY get a killcount). This demand grew even more when the buff became separate off the Completionist Cape.

You can't practice Solak solo/duo, and nowadays nobody learns you Solak anymore. The risk is too high because you're a learner, and secondly; YOU are their source of money! Why would they reach the people they literally make money off, cutting away their very own profits?

I think the current state of PvM complexity, accesibilty, and the unlocks it demands, is flawed and needs a redesign. Right now, people make more than double off selling Leeches than they make of Solak itself. It's disgusting.

PvM should be a system to step up every time you fight stronger bosses, and not one to be exploited of.
Roawr.

24-Jul-2019 23:30:17 - Last edited on 24-Jul-2019 23:52:06 by Uriel

Moneybucks
Nov Gold Premier Club Member 2018

Moneybucks

Posts: 7,836Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I have some sympathy for this, and it is the same for all group PvM content (Raids, anyone), but on the other hand, to engage in this sort of high tier PvM effectively, you need to be maxxed out and using all the top tier gear, switches, perks etc.

Aside from the enormous cost in time and resource to even get to that point in the endgame, at a boss like Solak where you cannot easily escape out of the encounter, an inexperienced player can cause an attempt to fail (or directly kill team members), which is likely to have a death cost somewhere in the region of 1M, and maybe a bit more accounting for lost familiars, aura time wasted, supplies etc. Less, if you're using a Ring of Death, but as this isn't the optimal choice for damage in the encounter, it's not fair to assume that.

Thus, you can just as easily make an argument that permitting learners to come with means accepting a significant element of risk, with a financial cost associated with it. That being the case, why shouldn't these top tier PvMers be compensated and rewarded for such?

I actually empathise with you, as I've been in the same boat for a lot of high-end PvM (despite being a maxxed and relatively elite player). I just think it's the nature of the beast.

If it's any consolation, in the grand scheme of things, the Reaper Crew stat bonuses aren't significant enough to have a major impact in general lower level PvM or slayer mobs. But I agree it is a nice to have, and something that frustrated me to no end until I was lucky enough to find a group of people willing to suffer me to come along with them for Solak.

EDIT
As an extension, there's nothing stopping you banding with friends to have a go, at no cost. This is what I did the first time, in a Solak duo to get a feel for the encounter. You seem to be objecting mostly to experienced players being hesitant to boss with inexperienced players, but that seems quite right, to me, as well.
Moneybucks

24-Jul-2019 23:59:05 - Last edited on 25-Jul-2019 00:03:48 by Moneybucks

Tenebri
Jan Gold Premier Club Member 2015

Tenebri

Posts: 20,581Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Uriel said:
You can't practice Solak solo/duo, and nowadays nobody learns teaches you Solak anymore.


nothing wrong with you going with a friend to learn the ropes. like the first ever person killing it did with 0 guides on youtube etc

i wouldnt say the whole pvm situation needs a revamp at all. the only objectification you have is leeches

so simple fix to that is make selling leeches bannable offence... but then i dont support that. i dont support leeching it kind of kills the fun of the game. but each there own i dont think it should be against rules. its not harmful.

even so i think you are making a mountain out of a mole hole with this. and myself dislike the fact people are leeching boss's.
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25-Jul-2019 00:00:25

Wolfblue42

Wolfblue42

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Wish they just made the bonus based off solo bosses. So they can forever be free of this drama.

If people are routinely bypassing the challenge by bribing others players I don't see how its an achievement anymore. Leeching is like the mtx of bossing achievements.

25-Jul-2019 00:21:19

Uriel
Aug Gold Premier Club Member 2010

Uriel

Posts: 8,568Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Krystelle said:
How can Jagex control leeching? That's the question.


Leeching on their own are 'fine'. They're immoral, but not harmful.

The difference however is that Solak 'leeches' aren't actual leeches, they're exploits, because there is no way you can do a different route unless you find another match to PVM solak with (which there rarely are, because the people who do already know, sell them.). On top of that it's just absolutely disgusting when you ask "Can someone help me learn Solak" to get an answer like "I can sell you a kill for 200m". YES, that happened.

The difference with leeches is that there is a complete solitude option;

"I can do this on my own" vs "I can pay someone to do this for me" <- is fine.
"I can't do this on my own" vs "I can pay someone to do this for me" <- is exploitation.


And in truth, if Jagex wants to prevent leeching, they can just install a rule against Player-owned Services, much like how they responded to gambling. At least, I can't think of many others instances where people offer their time in RS for money that isn't what we call a 'leech'.
Roawr.

25-Jul-2019 00:55:46 - Last edited on 25-Jul-2019 01:01:39 by Uriel

Uriel
Aug Gold Premier Club Member 2010

Uriel

Posts: 8,568Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Wolfblue42 said:
Wish they just made the bonus based off solo bosses. So they can forever be free of this drama.

If people are routinely bypassing the challenge by bribing others players I don't see how its an achievement anymore. Leeching is like the mtx of bossing achievements.


Well, sure, bribing is one thing, but leeches don't even come from the buyer's initiative any longer. People literally built economical empires and make their rs money off doing this.
Roawr.

25-Jul-2019 01:00:07

UrekMazino
Nov Gold Premier Club Member 2015

UrekMazino

Posts: 6,424Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Uriel said:
Solak is a tier 92 boss that has a limit on how many players can be in the instance.

And raids wasn't a problem? Even though pvmers were far weaker back then without limitless sigil, ingenuity of the humans, 4taa, t92 weapons and armour, rune pouches, skill cape perks, invention (you know, the skill that pretty much adds 30% more dps, more with sweaty switches, and extra survivability/utility).

But somehow its Solak that broke the camel's back? The boss where you don't even need an accuracy aura? The boss with a duo and 7 man mode option? The boss that doesn't require you to kill another boss and complete a puzzle to access?
Webmaster453 said:
Nex is Life said:
If you can't do Solak you don't deserve the stats. They should make it 100 kills to make leeching non-viable

That would just make it cost more.

Yea, there are still people to this day who are buying leeches. Just sold a bulk (3x) full raid leech less than a week ago and a yaka leech 2 days ago (I'm not the one selling the service, I just got brought along since the friend who sells this service needed fill, I'm not even good enough at pvm to sell leeches if I wanted to).
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25-Jul-2019 12:31:59

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