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Prif Gem Rocks no Onyx

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Subzero
Jul Member 2009

Subzero

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A Vitalis said:
but Vindicta is not 3-4M per hour. It's more like 8-10M per hour even despite stone spirits and assuming relatively average (1:00-1:20) kill times.


1:00-1:20 is not an average kill time it's a kill time for a high level player, which I specified as a caveat to my comment. My average kill time is 1m08 and I'm using maxed gear.

It's 3-4m/hour for someone who isn't an endgame player. I've killed her 4,000 times so I've a relatively decent idea of how much money she makes.

P.S. Stone spirits absolutely destroyed Vindicta's drop table and rightfully so, she was overly-rewarding.

Before Mining and Smithing she was around 7-8M net profit per hour assuming 35 kills per hour and an average rate of rare drops whilst holding max reputation.


A Vitalis said:
Kalphite King is definitely more than 1M per hour but I don't do that garbage boss so I can't really break that one down. 1M/hour is definitely lowballing it though.


I was exaggerating with this one but given that's he's relatively heavy mechanics-wise and if you make a mistake with his Green attack then you're dead. His rewards are absolute shit given the level of risk and mechanical complexity. According to Calculators he's about 2.5M net profit per hour in a three man team at 20 kills/hour.
Subzero

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15-Mar-2019 13:20:28

ELITE STACK
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2014

ELITE STACK

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A Vitalis said:
Subzero said:

Vindicta is only 3-4m/hour and even though it's a relatively straightforward boss it's still possible to die and unless you have endgame gear you'll be using food and having to think about your rotations


Alright hang on just a second lol. I agree with you overall (expecting skilling to be as profitable as bossing is honestly stupid if you consider the amount of effort that goes into bossing compared to skilling), but Vindicta is not 3-4M per hour. It's more like 8-10M per hour even despite stone spirits and assuming relatively average (1:00-1:20) kill times.

Kalphite King is definitely more than 1M per hour but I don't do that garbage boss so I can't really break that one down. 1M/hour is definitely lowballing it though.



KK is definitely more then 1m/hr but I doubt vindicta is 8-10m an hour even if you include lance and zaros crest. You don't get those drops all the time.
The brightest ideas are the most undervalued.

15-Mar-2019 13:29:47

A Vitalis
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2015

A Vitalis

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Subzero said:
It's 3-4m/hour for someone who isn't an endgame player. I've killed her 4,000 times so I've a relatively decent idea of how much money she makes.


Apparently not, though, because you're simply mathematically wrong. We know the droprates on unique items now, so we can at least calculate the average hourly profit you're making from them.

Lance and Crest are both 1/256 with max rep buff. Assuming 40 kills/hr, that's an average of 6.4 hours per Lance and per Crest. I don't remember the exact prices pre-M&S rework, but at 25M for a Lance (the last price I do remember), that alone adds 3.9M GP per hour to your average profits. At 20M for a crest, crests add 3.1M to your average profits.

That's 7M/hour from uniques alone. Pre-M&S rework you usually pulled in 3-4M in commons. Post-M&S rework it's generally a fair bit lower (haven't done enough Vindicta post rework to really say but I'd estimate 1.5-3M per hour average), but Lances and Crests have gone up a bit so the overall hit to hourly profits isn't really that big.

ELITE STACK said:


KK is definitely more then 1m/hr but I doubt vindicta is 8-10m an hour even if you include lance and zaros crest. You don't get those drops all the time.


See above

The truth is you're the weak, and I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin'. I'm tryin' real hard to be the shepherd.

15-Mar-2019 13:31:11 - Last edited on 15-Mar-2019 13:36:13 by A Vitalis

Subzero
Jul Member 2009

Subzero

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A Vitalis said:
Assuming 40 kills/hr,


Why are you strawmanning my argument? You're literally running your maths under optimal circumstances and then using it as a counterargument to players who aren't playing optimally.

40 kills/hour is not an average kill rate. That's a high kill rate.



Take note of the following:

Subzero said:
1:00-1:20 is not an average kill time it's a kill time for a high level player


Subzero said:
which I specified as a caveat to my comment. My average kill time is 1m08 and I'm using maxed gear.


Subzero said:
It's 3-4m/hour for someone who isn't an endgame player.




Given that I've given you repeated comments indicating that I'm discussing the average player and not elite players doing 40+ kills/hour, why do you keep addressing my comments with maths targeting endgame players?


Maths related to sweatier players is irrelevant here because those players aren't the ones who Onyx were good gp for. Onyx was good GP for lazier/less experienced players and thus those are the players whom we are drawing comparison to PvM for.
Subzero

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15-Mar-2019 14:04:48 - Last edited on 15-Mar-2019 14:05:32 by Subzero

A Vitalis
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2015

A Vitalis

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Subzero said:
-snip-


Right, well fuck it. Let's take a look at 20 kills an hour at current prices (easily doable by your "average" PvMer using drygores/bandos and a decent revo bar).

Lances are currently 27.7M. At 20 kills/hour you're getting a lance every 12.8 hours. This means you're getting roughly 2.16M per hour from Lances.

Crests are currently 24.2M. Again assuming 20 kills/hour and a crest every 12.8 hours, this is just shy of 2M/hr from crests alone.

This means that, at current prices and using the lowball number of 20 kills/hr, you're still making 4M an hour solely from uniques. Add an extra 1-2M or so from the commons you do get and even "average PvMer" vindicta is still 5-6M an hour, which is still a good bit higher than your 3-4M an hour number, even if the gap is a little smaller.

The truth is you're the weak, and I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin'. I'm tryin' real hard to be the shepherd.

15-Mar-2019 14:15:34 - Last edited on 15-Mar-2019 14:17:00 by A Vitalis

Subzero
Jul Member 2009

Subzero

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Now remove those 12.8 hours of supply costs


And you'll see where my numbers were from, even if they may have been ~1-1.5M out due to high prices on rares (look at the graphs over the past month)
Subzero

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15-Mar-2019 14:31:28 - Last edited on 15-Mar-2019 14:31:56 by Subzero

Valea69
Sep Member 2015

Valea69

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Subzero said:
Now remove those 12.8 hours of supply costs


And you'll see where my numbers were from, even if they may have been ~1-1.5M out due to high prices on rares (look at the graphs over the past month)


You don't get out much do you? :P

15-Mar-2019 15:14:42

Vaseth
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2015

Vaseth

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A Vitalis said:
Subzero said:
-snip-


Right, well fuck it. Let's take a look at 20 kills an hour at current prices (easily doable by your "average" PvMer using drygores/bandos and a decent revo bar).

Lances are currently 27.7M. At 20 kills/hour you're getting a lance every 12.8 hours. This means you're getting roughly 2.16M per hour from Lances.

Crests are currently 24.2M. Again assuming 20 kills/hour and a crest every 12.8 hours, this is just shy of 2M/hr from crests alone.

This means that, at current prices and using the lowball number of 20 kills/hr, you're still making 4M an hour solely from uniques. Add an extra 1-2M or so from the commons you do get and even "average PvMer" vindicta is still 5-6M an hour, which is still a good bit higher than your 3-4M an hour number, even if the gap is a little smaller.


i think the point your missing isnt one of player specific maths

the point your missing is that a player can have 8 alts all mining at the same time, where as i cant really imagine you can kill vindy on more than 2 accounts at the same time max, and even then id personally struggle with that

and you can mine with at least 3-5 accounts WHILE YOU KILL VINDY

this is the issue, as the alts then destroy the main income from kiln, and a lions share of the income from rax

15-Mar-2019 16:25:31 - Last edited on 15-Mar-2019 16:27:05 by Vaseth

A Vitalis
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2015

A Vitalis

Posts: 1,073Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Vaseth said:
i think the point your missing isnt one of player specific maths


No, actually I think YOU are completely missing my point. I never said I disagreed with the Onyx change (exactly the opposite actually), I just rejected the assertion that Vindicta is 3-4M per hour.

Subzero said:
Now remove those 12.8 hours of supply costs


And you'll see where my numbers were from, even if they may have been ~1-1.5M out due to high prices on rares (look at the graphs over the past month)



An "average PvMer" getting 20 kills/hr probably isn't using that much in supplies. Drygore/bandos upkeep, some overloads, some prayer flasks, and some sharks is all you really need.

The truth is you're the weak, and I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin'. I'm tryin' real hard to be the shepherd.

15-Mar-2019 17:11:50 - Last edited on 15-Mar-2019 17:28:20 by A Vitalis

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