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Spelunking - new way to skill

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4ev

4ev

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I'm looking for ideas on the final room, unique rewards, and more potential random events.


Spelunking would be a highly interactive way to skill, with a fairly high chance to die. This will be a new training method/minigame in which you explore brand new caverns (randomly generated).


Mechanics:


Players are unable to take anything with them. They must gather, adapt, and utilize the supplies needed to reach the end. Think of it like stealing creation in a way, you can create many different tools from the same thing, and use those tools in different ways. There are limited resources, so choose wisely.

The way this activity works, is it would store up your potential rewards as you progress through the cavern. If you opt to leave the cave, or abandon the cave, you lose 90% of those potential rewards. Every death you experience loses 25% of your potential rewards, and a team-members death removes 10% of your potential rewards (maximum loss of potential is -80%). In addition to reduced rewards at the end, dying applies normal death mechanics, 3 (+1 if protect item) items kept on death, and everything else disintegrates upon touching the floor. This is a very important mechanic, since without enough supplies, you will not be able to complete the whole thing.

Completing a Cavern system with 75% potential left should be comparable to normal skilling activities (in overall supplies gathered, distributed randomly).

Cavern System:


The cavern system will have multiple paths, and in a maze-like fashion, some will dead-end, some will tie into other paths, etc. There will always be a way to reach the end with your current parties levels, but you might be unable to fully explore the cavern without high enough levels.

Rooms will be everything from skilling based puzzles (think back to DG), to gathering rooms (specific tools required to gather) to rooms where you can convert your materials into specific
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Spelunking - non-combat raids

29-Sep-2018 06:41:16 - Last edited on 17-May-2019 22:20:53 by 4ev

4ev

4ev

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items (anvils to make pickaxe and wc axe, looms to make butterfly nets and fishing nets, a workbench to create tinderboxes and chisels etc.) Without the proper tool, you can try gathering resources barehanded, but you have a far higher chance of failing, and potentially ruining a good resource. These resource areas would function similar to the upper level of MLM, in that they will deplete on a random timer after beginning to gather them regardless of the number of people gathering. This encourages sharing with your team, and everyone participating, rather than one person soloing.

The sooner (after gathering) you convert your resources, the higher tier they will remain. Everything will start as tier 5, and for every minute after gathered while remaining in raw form it will lose a tier. This will discourage people from hoarding resources they don't need, and reward those with the foresight to make what they need.

Now the cavern system itself isn't happy with adventurers trespassing and consuming its resources, so it will be very volatile, and lash-out with events. For those of you familiar with aggressive randoms, some of these will be familiar.

Random Events:


Smoking Rock - stop mining from this resource, if you continue it will blow up, destroying your pickaxe and harming you in the process.

Evil Tree Ent - Similar to above

Angry Electric Eel - Similar to above

Monarch Butterfly - Similar to above

Cavern Instability - similar to the snowfall in Wintertodt, rubble would fall from the ceiling periodically, implying a massive collapse on that square, move or lose a random item. Actual rubble will fall and have to be mined, similar to MLM.

As you progress through the Cavern system, these will become more and more commonplace. Also, due to the nature of the cavern, there will be an ultimate timer, where if you don't "defeat" the cavern system by then, it will ultimately collapse.
My Suggestions:
Cross Minigame Reward Shop - waiting since December 26th 2013
Spelunking - non-combat raids

29-Sep-2018 06:41:27 - Last edited on 23-May-2019 00:31:02 by 4ev

4ev

4ev

Posts: 502Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The Final Room:


I'm still undecided as to what this should be.

- Should it be a timed room where you plunder as much as you can before the cave finally collapses?
- Should further things happen in here, like traps, etc.?
- Should it be something else entirely?


Rewards:


You would get random rolls at resources that scale with your levels (and remaining reward potential), similar to Wintertodt. Also, if you completed the system 100% and still have 100% of your reward potential left (meaning no deaths for the entire team) you would have a small chance of rolling on the unique rewards table. Also, the amount you contributed to the team would be kept track of, similar to CoX, and would determine the percentage chance of an individual receiving the unique drop.

Unique Rewards:


I'm semi-undecided here, although it should be unique items useful to skilling.

We could do things like food add-ons that give a heal over time effect, minor prayer boost (recover 1 prayer point), etc. There's also many skill boosts that are currently difficult to obtain, this could be a decent place to add in alternatives. Currently Runecrafting, Thieving, Mining, Woodcutting, and Smithing are all lower boosts and/or are difficult to obtain. These could all be the keep players coming back over time rewards (not highly sought after, the 'common' rare drops).

Maybe a skilling omni-tool, that can morph between all of the gathering tools (starts at bronze/lowest level). You could also feed it higher level tools (non-refundable) to upgrade its capabilities. For example, give it an iron axe, then steel, etc. It would have horrible stats no matter how upgraded, but would allow skillers the ability to wield their dragon gathering tools (sort of) with a lot more effort, and be a space saver for every other account.

That's one idea for a unique, I'd like 4+ at least.
My Suggestions:
Cross Minigame Reward Shop - waiting since December 26th 2013
Spelunking - non-combat raids

29-Sep-2018 06:41:38 - Last edited on 29-May-2019 04:40:56 by 4ev

4ev

4ev

Posts: 502Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Spelunking would be a highly interactive way to skill, with a fairly high chance to die (compared to afk skilling anyway). This will be a new training method/minigame in which you explore brand new caverns (randomly generated).

This would essentially be a skilling version of Raids.

Players are unable to take anything with them. They must gather, adapt, and utilize the supplies needed to reach the end. Think of it like stealing creation in a way, you can create many different tools from the same thing, and use those tools in different ways. There are limited resources, so choose wisely.

I picture the exploration being completely different from your standard skilling content, no more AFKing for easy exp. Instead, now you have to interact with the game in the correct ways to not die. Think of it like a cavern system filled with content similar to the old random events, but you have to interact with them in a more timely fashion, or face the consequences.

The best example I can give of this is the Tree Ent (breaks Axe), Smoking rock (Blows up pickaxe), etc. Also, there would be mechanics similar to the snowfall in wintertodt where you need to move out of a certain range to not be hit.

There should also be skilling puzzles, like there was in DG. These would scale to your levels, as would the rewards at the end. The higher your levels, the higher your rewards. I would like to see every non-combat skill able to be utilized in some way within.

The ultimate boss is brought down by skilling, not combat. You avoid its attacks by interacting properly with its mechanics, not by tanking it with gear and high HP. You can 'attack' it with various skills, and each unique boss would be susceptible to certain skills over other skills. We could even tie in slayer here by making it easier to identify 'weaknesses' of the boss with a higher slayer level.

You could do this in small groups or solo, but it should be challenging enough that most players are unable to solo.
My Suggestions:
Cross Minigame Reward Shop - waiting since December 26th 2013
Spelunking - non-combat raids

29-Sep-2018 06:42:38 - Last edited on 28-Oct-2018 15:25:36 by 4ev

4ev

4ev

Posts: 502Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Clawdragons said:
Here's the thing.

Random generation often sounds like a good idea... But it's actually far harder to do well than many people give it credit for.

I've got some experience in this. I've been working on codeveloping a roguelike game for the last few years. I've got strong opinions on what sorts of elements make procedural generation work, and what sorts of elements don't go well.

There are some things that typically go along with procedural generation, and there are good reasons for why most of those things work.

I'm not convinced that a game like Runescape, which is so heavily focused on permanent progression, can really go along well with what you are describing.


Nothing can actually be coded to be "random." The closest thing I can think of to randomness is some sort of volatile function, which I don't suggest.

Anyway, what I meant by random, was that the rooms wouldn't be the same every time, and would spawn in different orders. Much like Raids 1 or Dungeoneering.
My Suggestions:
Cross Minigame Reward Shop - waiting since December 26th 2013
Spelunking - non-combat raids

03-Oct-2018 23:02:17

4ev

4ev

Posts: 502Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Miu said:
I like the concept. But what are the rewards? If it's just XP, then why bother?

There's the risk of death, but you don't bring items in. Then what's the point in that risk? Do you lose anything? You said you face the consequences, but there doesn't seem to be a penalty for dying that you've explained.


When you die, you lose everything but 3 items (+1 can be kept also). What I mean by you face the consequences is that beyond a certain point, you will be unable to progress any further due to dying too much (not enough resources), and your time will have been "wasted" since you'd get no rewards at the end, having to abandon the journey, unable to progress any further.

I have not decided upon any rewards yet, as I'm not quite sure how challenging or time consuming this should be. Do we want one to take at minimum an hour? It would need decent rewards for being able to survive until the end then. Do we want it to reward some type of a reward currency instead of random rewards? Do we want it more RNG based or more time investment based for the better rewards? There's lots of options here, and I want to weigh each appropriately.

Also, the rewards need to be in line with the "skilling" mentality, without unbalancing current skilling activities. That is quite a tall task.

It was just a general idea I had, so I put it out there to see if anyone had any ideas on ways to flesh it out more, or if it was even worth me putting in more effort to flesh it out.
My Suggestions:
Cross Minigame Reward Shop - waiting since December 26th 2013
Spelunking - non-combat raids

03-Oct-2018 23:08:03 - Last edited on 03-Oct-2018 23:13:42 by 4ev

4ev

4ev

Posts: 502Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Zmancool said:
This is actually a pretty decent concept. Their are certainly a lot of holes in the idea but I could definately see this developed into someing both fun and rewarding but most inpodtantly unique

There shouldnt be any boss at the end though. Seems kinda cheesy


What do you suggest at the end instead of a boss then? It doesn't have to be a standard "boss" (and it won't be, since you don't use combat) but to me the term boss means something challenging at the end. It could be more of a "boss room" where you need to do certain actions within a certain time-frame, or anything along those lines. Something challenging that you can ultimately fail.

I agree that we don't need to actually 'kill' something at the end, but you do need to ultimately defeat the cave system.
My Suggestions:
Cross Minigame Reward Shop - waiting since December 26th 2013
Spelunking - non-combat raids

04-Oct-2018 22:49:39

4ev

4ev

Posts: 502Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
@Clawdragons

The random generation would serve the purpose of keeping the dungeons fresh and not monotonous. You raise good points, which I shall address. Let me know if I missed anything with my explanation.

First of all, the dungeon will scale to your levels. However, only the MAIN PATH will scale to your levels. All of the bonus paths won't and might be impossible for you to complete, so higher levels will be beneficial. The bonus paths in here will actually be worth completing, as you will get quite hefty rewards from them, making the rest of the dungeon slightly easier.

I picture it like this...

Without any bonus paths, there will barely be enough resources to reach the end, let alone take down the "boss." You will have to have the intelligence and reflexes of a god to be able to accomplish such a feat.

With the bonus paths, they will be far more challenging, but it will reward enough extra resources to allow for an extra death (around there) with each additional branch. Your resources remaining at the end would determine your reward also, so it would be beneficial to be good at the mechanics, and have high stats, but you won't be severely punished if your stats aren't all 99.

Back to the random generation and its usefulness. I view it as generating with puzzles, skill specific resource gathering, certain rooms allowing you to use certain skills to reach the next, etc.

Over-leveling will make all of this easier as you've mentioned, but you can make it so there's more puzzle-like uses of skills (many variations) to keep it different each time.

I feel that is the best approach to the problems you brought up.
My Suggestions:
Cross Minigame Reward Shop - waiting since December 26th 2013
Spelunking - non-combat raids

04-Oct-2018 23:11:15

4ev

4ev

Posts: 502Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I'm thinking as far as rewards go, we can do resources = points, possibly on some kind of slightly exponential scale.

I think there should be some kind of item rewards that are sought after, along with your general exp rewards. As far as the items go, something that assists with skilling would be nice, but I'm not exactly sure how to go about that without unbalancing something. I'm thinking more niche items would be useful, like how rc has pouches, mining and smithing get the coal bag, etc.

I'm not sure if having an extra scaling factor for how early things are converted is a path I'd like to go down. I could however see something like a slight tier system. Go back to stealing creation how there was different level resources, worth different amounts of points. We could put a degradation timer of some kind on resources gathered, forcing you to choose what to make them into in a timely manner to not 'lose out' on potential points. It would sort of force the same mindset, but in a way I feel to be slightly more logical.

I also agree that a boss doesn't quite seem to fit, but I definitely want a super challenging room at the end (which varies for each skill to be very effective and some to be not effective at all) where many players can die. You need to learn and utilize the mechanics to survive, otherwise you are going to die.

I am not sure if I agree with one death. I will consider it though. I do support harsh death mechanics. Normal 3 item death mechanics (protect prayer optional) and everything that touches the floor crumbles to dust. You lose half the potential rewards on each death. That way, if it is actually designed to be super challenging, dying won't make it that much more difficult to learn mechanics. I don't want it to be something like the Kiln, where it makes it challenging to learn about mechanics when death is so easy to come by.

If the content is on fight cave level, I would want it to be 1 death; anything harder is harsh deaths.
My Suggestions:
Cross Minigame Reward Shop - waiting since December 26th 2013
Spelunking - non-combat raids

05-Oct-2018 05:48:39 - Last edited on 05-Oct-2018 05:53:02 by 4ev

4ev

4ev

Posts: 502Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
it's not DG lmfao, why does everyone keep thinking this?

DG was combat oriented (bosses, guardian creatures you had to pray against in every room) with puzzles and some skilling for getting past doors (absolutely no focus on skilling).

This would not have any combat aspects AT ALL. 100% skilling based activity. Lvl 3s could do it, maxed mains could do it. However, neither would have an advantage (unlike wintertodt with its scaling damage, which favors lower HP).

Please re-read the thread if you actually feel this is a copy-paste of dungeoneering. I would like to know where I am asking for dungeoneering, because I'm not. I just saw a reference where I was talking about taking damage still (changed opinion a while ago and though I updated it all on how to "punish" players).

I would still like to have some type of a health-esque measurement, maybe an air supply, warmth factor, hunger, something like that that depletes (where you could ultimately 'die'). I still am rather unsure though as there's a lot of possibilities.

I think as I described it, this would be a lot closer to a noncombat PvM version of SC instead of the PvP version that RS3 has. Of course it would be quite different, but that's what I foresee it as most closely resembling.
My Suggestions:
Cross Minigame Reward Shop - waiting since December 26th 2013
Spelunking - non-combat raids

23-May-2019 00:26:08 - Last edited on 23-May-2019 00:46:44 by 4ev

4ev

4ev

Posts: 502Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Jeremy Cheng said:
So RS3's shifting tombs but in OSRS. I have to ask, is it a safe death for hcim?


No idea what these shifting tombs are that you are referring to, as I don't play that version of the game; but no, it would not be a safe death for HCIM.
My Suggestions:
Cross Minigame Reward Shop - waiting since December 26th 2013
Spelunking - non-combat raids

05-Jul-2019 14:42:54 - Last edited on 05-Jul-2019 14:43:44 by 4ev

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