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The 2011 Boss - Nex

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PvM Sasuke
Mar Member 2019

PvM Sasuke

Posts: 1,211Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I know this is going to be a highly controversial post but I'm going to do my best to address all criticisms in the OP before anyone has anything to say about them so please give this post an entire read!

Let me start by saying this, OSRS is currently suffering from a problem and that problem is the "SoloScape" mentality by Jagex and a lot of updates. The last dozen or so bosses released into the game have been solo bosses. I couldn't name them all if you wanted me to but to name a few: Zulrah, Grotesque Guardians, Obor, Cerberus, Sire, Vorkath. We have received high tier group PvM activities such as Chambers of Xeric and Theatre of Blood but these are NOT bosses, they play more similar to a minigame, in fact, ToB is even a minigame teleport. Are they challenging? Definitely, but they aren't a "boss". My main proposition, Nex or not, is for a high level team boss in a more traditional sense, think like GWD bosses or Corp. You just get into the boss room with you and your friends and you kill it. Raids 1 and 2 function more like Dungeoneering did and I'm not saying that in a bad way, but it's not a boss, it's a PvM minigame that involves fighting a collection of bosses. So while this post is about Nex, I'm not necessarily saying it HAS to be Nex, I just want something as difficult and rewarding as Nex, because I know the Old School team loves their original content. When DS2 was initially announced I had hoped Vorkath would be the high tier traditional-style boss I had hoped for and I was extremely disappointed that we had received yet ANOTHER solo boss.

Now I know the Ironmen crowd will be the first to jump on me for asking for a "unsoloable boss like Nex". But I don't think the game needs to be 100% catered to them. Let's just say hypothetically that Nex comes out and Ironmen are more or less locked out of being able to get Torva, Pernix, and Virtus because Nex is unsoloable, they still have access to Justiciar, Armadyl, and Ancestral which are just a tier below.

18-Apr-2019 18:51:30

PvM Sasuke
Mar Member 2019

PvM Sasuke

Posts: 1,211Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Now more onto Nex now, and I'll address more popular criticisms when I get there, but to recap the last post, OSRS needs more traditional-style team PvM bossing content and less solo PvM bosses or raids as a substitute for this team PvM bossing content, and I also feel like there's nothing wrong with Ironmen being locked out a few sets of the best armour in the game.

Now onto the rewards, for anyone who remembers, Nex had 10 drops initially, they were as follows:

-Torva full helm
-Torva platebody
-Torva platelegs

-Pernix cowl
-Pernix body
-Pernix chaps

-Virtus mask
-Virtus robe top
-Virtus robe legs

-Zaryte bow

Additionally, the four minions dropped mostly cosmetic Ancient ceremonial robes, used to bypass the KC for Nex and nothing else.

Now one of the MOST popular criticisms against Nex is that her rewards are way too OP and I'd like to both challenge that statement but also add possible compromises.

First of all, Justiciar, Armadyl, and Ancestral respectively are not far off from Torva, Pernix, and Virtus, in fact, Justiciar's initial polling with Strength bonus equal to Bandos basically had Justiciar possibly becoming Torva but with slightly nerfed stats and no set effect (but it has a set effect anyways). My first proposal as a nerf to these armours would be to disable the set effect in dangerous PvP scenarios. If you wore any Nex armours, even just say a Torva helm, you received an actual HP stat buff, similar to eating an Anglerfish or drinking a Saradomin brew, you could physically eat up past 99 HP, I believe the maximum if you wore three Nex armour items, a helm, top, and bottom was ~140ish? The set didn't have to match either, it could be a Pernix top and bottom with a Torva helm, for example. Now obviously this posed a lot of problems with PvP because people in these sets were often unkillable, especially when they combined the power of these Nex armours with a Divine or Elysian shield. So I would simple say to disable this HP effect in PvP.

18-Apr-2019 18:51:34 - Last edited on 18-Apr-2019 18:59:32 by PvM Sasuke

PvM Sasuke
Mar Member 2019

PvM Sasuke

Posts: 1,211Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
There are other reasons I think we would actually be okay with Nex armours though. Those main reasons are the fact that we don't have Summoning, Overloads, or Curses (mainly Turmoil and Soul Split). The lack of these three in popular PvM scenarios such as Saradomin, Bandos, or Corp means you can't stay for too many kills unless you super Woox-tryhard Prayer flick all the minions while walking the Bandos boss, but most of us are either incapable or too lazy to try to do this consistently. Nex armours would allow people to stay at bosses longer, yes, BUT, not NEARLY to the extent they could in 2011 with all those things I mentioned that we don't have, specifically Curses and Summoning, you could stay at Bandos almost indefinitely with Torva, Soul Split, and a Unicorn Summoning familiar, this would NOT be the case in OSRS, not by a long shot.

Also, I want to address to difficulty of Nex as well, killing Nex even when she came out was VERY hard. When she came out, we had Chaotics, Overloads, Summoning, and Curses and it still took a minimum of 3-5 people to kill her, Woox struggled to get a successful duo in and eventually discovered a safespottable way to solo her, but he didn't truly solo her legitimately until RS3.

Now to be fair, RS2 didn't have the blowpipe or Twisted bow, both which would be incredibly effective against Nex. I think it would take a minimum of three people with Twisted bows just to get one kill, and that's if everyone there is already a pro at Nex. For those unfamiliar with Nex herself, the boss had five phases, a Smoke, Shadow, Blood, Ice, and Final phase.

The meta at the time of release was to range her first two phases, as in her Smoke phase, she could cast a spell on players that made them cough, and they could pass it on to other players, similar to the burning thing Olm does. In her second phase, she made shadows pop out from under players and if you stood there too long, you'd get hit.

18-Apr-2019 18:51:38 - Last edited on 18-Apr-2019 19:42:06 by PvM Sasuke

PvM Sasuke
Mar Member 2019

PvM Sasuke

Posts: 1,211Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Players would close in for melee for her third phase, the Blood phase, this was by far the most problematic phase because of how hard it was to out-DPS all her healing abilities, all of Woox's pre-EoC solo and failed duo attempts came to a stop in this phase, she would crouch down into a defensive position for a few seconds and any damage done to her healed her instead. Additionally, she summoned Bloodreavers that were similar in appearance to Bloodvelds, although much stronger, and they would attack players and heal her too, the meta was to dish out two Dragon claws specs and attack with the rapier for the quickest damage possible. I imagine it would be similar or it would become blowpipe with Dragon darts. The fourth phase was another problematic one, as she could trap players within an ice prison and do almost a full HP bar worth of damage, players could free you by attacking an ice stalagmite. In her fifth and final phase, she would activate Turmoil and primarily attack with melee or generic magic attacks, she had no special attacks in this phase. The meta in bigger teams for this phase was for one person with full Torva, a Staff of light, and a Divine or Ely to aggro her, pray mage, and tank her with the set effects of Torva, the effect of their shield, and the special attack of the Staff of light.

Now I want to actually address the stats of some Nex armours, why they are or aren't problematic and if they are, how we can rebalance them for OSRS. First let's compare the Torva platebody to it's next-best alternatives, the Bandos chestplate and Justiciar chestguard. I will not include +0 stats to save post space, anything not included is +0.

Torva platebody:

Attack bonus:

Magic: -31
Range: -11

Defence bonus:

Stab: +156
Slash: +140
Crush: +120
Magic: -10
Range: +160

Other bonuses:

Melee strength: +4
Prayer: +1

Justiciar chestguard:

Attack bonus:

Magic: -40
Ranged: -20

Defence bonus:

Stab: +132
Slash: +130
Crush: +117
Magic: -16
Range: +142

18-Apr-2019 18:59:37 - Last edited on 18-Apr-2019 19:56:13 by PvM Sasuke

PvM Sasuke
Mar Member 2019

PvM Sasuke

Posts: 1,211Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Other bonuses:

Prayer: +4

I'm going to save post space by not adding the Bandos chestplate stats, but to summarize, the Bandos chestplate has less defensive stats than the Justiciar chestguard, but with the same strength bonus as the Torva platebody. In short, Torva is essentially Justiciar with buffed stats and a strength bonus. You're basically trading strength bonus for prayer bonus when comparing Torva to Justiciar, and if the HP set effect is nerfed, Justiciar is comparable when you take into consideration it's set effect anyways.

In this case, I think Torva could enter the game as is, it is stronger than Justiciar with no nerfs, but only marginally, by an average defensive stat buff of about +15 from Justiciar. With this, it has a different set effect, instead of blocking damage, it adds to your base HP, but it's also degradeable, a full set of Nex armour used to cost somewhere around 3-5M to maintain, so it's stat buffs don't come without a price.

Virtus is another one I think is perfectly balanced, at the time very few magic gears had magic damage buffs, and Virtus actually did not have it. So Ancestral might even be better than Virtus as the two stand right now. Here's full Virtus vs. full Ancestral:

Full Virtus (helm, top, and bottoms):

Attack bonus:

Magic: +71
Range: -22

Defence bonus:

Stab: +121
Slash: +108
Crush: +130
Magic: +70

Other bonuses:

Prayer: +3

Full Ancestral:

Attack bonus:

Magic: +69
Range: -17

Defence bonus:

Stab: +81
Slash: +66
Crush: +94
Magic: +53

Other bonuses:

Magic damage: +6%

As you can see, Virtus fulfills a clear niche over Ancestral; it's very tanky, it's comparable in melee defensive stats to some melee armours, which is something magic users need, the combat triangle is supposed to be like rock paper scissors but when magic users get ripped to shreads by Dragon claws, it's hard to say that that's truly the case.

Did not add enough reserved posts to talk about Pernix, scroll down a couple posts for that!

18-Apr-2019 18:59:48 - Last edited on 18-Apr-2019 19:57:06 by PvM Sasuke

JoaoNoFind
Dec Member 2018

JoaoNoFind

Posts: 2,629Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Not done yet, but support!
I made a video game, check it out!
https://discord.gg/KswK8wa https://onelastlight.weebly.***/ http://onelastlight***************/ https://onelastlight-onelastlightwiki.pbworks.***/w/page/134447487/FrontPage

18-Apr-2019 19:05:12

JoaoNoFind
Dec Member 2018

JoaoNoFind

Posts: 2,629Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I proposed Nex here, if that's helpful.
I made a video game, check it out!
https://discord.gg/KswK8wa https://onelastlight.weebly.***/ http://onelastlight***************/ https://onelastlight-onelastlightwiki.pbworks.***/w/page/134447487/FrontPage

18-Apr-2019 19:06:25

PvM Sasuke
Mar Member 2019

PvM Sasuke

Posts: 1,211Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Pernix is the only set I could see being a potential problem, especially with how much more powerful range is in OSRS vs. RS2, being that we have the Twisted bow and Toxic blowpipe, both far outclass anything we had in RS2. But let's compare it to Armadyl and see what it looks like anyways.

Full Pernix:

Attack bonus:

Stab: -20
Slash: -20
Crush: -20
Magic: -40
Range: +76

Defence bonus:

Stab: +107
Slash: +87
Crush: +118
Magic: +137
Range: +111

Other bonuses:

Prayer: +3

Full Armadyl:

Attack bonus:

Stab: -18
Slash: -18
Crush: -18
Magic: -30
Range: +63

Defence bonus:

Stab: +94
Slash: +80
Crush: +105
Magic: +120
Range: +98

Other bonuses:

Prayer: +3

As you can see, even Pernix is not THAT much better than Armadyl, however unlike the Virtus vs. Ancestral comparison, where one has better DPS but the other is a more tanky and defensive setup, Pernix just clearly outclasses Armadyl in basically all aspects, HOWEVER, it wouldn't necessarily be worth using everywhere, in PvM it would still degrade and in PvP you'd be risking a lot more for minimal stat buffs. Yes it's better and yes anyone who can afford it would use it at Saradomin, Armadyl, and Nex. If the set effect, like I said in one of my earlier posts, was disabled in PvP, these sets would not be NEARLY as destructive as they are remembered to be.

Lastly I'm going to quickly talk about the Zaryte bow. It was a bow similar to the Crystal bow that made it's own ammo. The Crystal bow grants +100 range attack and +70 ranged strength. The Zaryte bow granted +120 ranged attack and +115 ranged strength. Far outclassing the crystal bow but actually seeing real usage, now the twisted bow against magic users would be superior, but the Zaryte bow might see some niche uses.

Oh, and as far as drop rates go, I don't remember exactly what they were but it was around 1/25ish kills for an item. I'd probably propose each of the ten items get a drop rate of 1/256, this would make the effective drop rate for any item 1/25.6.

18-Apr-2019 19:23:55 - Last edited on 18-Apr-2019 19:42:20 by PvM Sasuke

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