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AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

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Some of this is old, some new:

Recent history of the region: In the early years of the fifth age, around the same time the Carnilleans rose up against Hazeel in the region of modern-day Ardougne, three other families rose to power in northeastern Kandarin. The Catherbys ruled over the region that has become the town of Catherby. The Sinclairs ruled over their modern day holdings, as well as the castle now called Camelot. And the Sotherbys ruled over the region of what what has become the Seers Village and the sorcerer's tower.

When King Ulthas gave Camelot to Arthur and his knights, he also divided the land of the Sotherbys - handing over the village of Sotherby to be ruled by a local council of seers and renaming it Seers Village. The sorcerer's tower today remains in the hands of William Thormac Sotherby, IV.

Local culture: Given their location, the seers of Seers Village have inherited a mix of magical traditions: they take the title of seer and the old form of divination that they practice from their Fremennik neighbors to the north; they draw upon the lingering tradition of sorcery that has endured in the region ever since the renaissance of sorcery that occurred with the rise of druidism at the start of the 4th age; and they have access to the advances of mainstream runic magics apparent throughout the rest of Kandarin.

The history of the locals mirrors their mixed inheritance - they have no single ethnic origin; they played no especially prominent role in history. Like their neighbors in Hemenster, they come from humble stock. There have been seers in the region since time immemorial. The practically oriented sorcery of the seers kept the local human population safe from raids of Bandosians throughout the 4th age. They have occasionally come to the aid of the gnomes to the west and the dwarves in the east.

21-Mar-2017 20:47:54

AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

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Recent history of the seers: Since the rise of modern runic magics and the establishment of the kingdom of Kandarin, the sorcery and divination of the seers has become less important for defending the local folk. The traditional role of the seers - predicting and preparing for raids - disappeared. Yet, in line with their traditional role of protecting the interests of the local people, the seers began something new.

In order to defend the local people from any would-be conquerors among their newly empowered human neighbors, the seers formed a council - the first formal government of the region - to act as diplomatic representatives of the local population. First, they allied themselves with the powerful Sotherby family in the south (under whose patronage the metallurgy of Vitruvius especially flourished), and then they procured greater autonomy under King Ulthas within the kingdom of Kandarin.

The seers today: Now that the region enjoys a relatively stable way of life, safe within the borders of Kandarin, most seers concern themselves simply with local governance. They maintain diplomatic relations with the Sinclairs, the Sotherbys, the Catherbys, Camelot, the Fremennik, the gnomes, the dwarves, Ardougne, and even with the Mage Guild far to the south. The council also oversees education in some of the traditional practices of sorcery and divination, but these are more of a cultural artifact and hardly receive intensive study. In general, the seers and their people are an easygoing folk - and would not like the peace disturbed.

21-Mar-2017 20:48:22

AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

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But some among them have been disturbed. While many of the region hope that the conflicts of the 6th age will have no effect on their long-overlooked land, some seers would like their peers to take the traditions of their region more seriously. For now, these worriers are considered odd, and harmless. These few would like to rekindle intensive magical study of the ancient traditions of listening to the spirits of the world, especially in cooperation with their Fremennik neighbors in the north with whom they share many traditions. Whether their sentiments will grow or pass away in time, or whether anything will prompt the seers as a whole to return to their traditional work of predicting and preparing for threats to their people, remains to be seen.

...
For more ideas on how to develop the distinctive magical traditions of the seers, please see my headcannon history of human magics in Gielinor in Part III of this thread.

21-Mar-2017 20:48:36 - Last edited on 21-Mar-2017 20:59:03 by AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

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I'll give this another go.

It will require a little more background lore to give the seers some more texture.

Extensive background lore: Elsewhere, I have proposed a periodization of magics among the humans of Gielinor. In the 1st and start of the 2nd ages, humans practiced sorcery. This made some use of runestones but was more oriented toward discerning the invisible spirits at work in nature. After the arrival of the gods, Gielinor's humans practiced mysticism - like sorcery, but with more theory and study of magical practices from other worlds; it also developed an ancient sort of divination by which the mystics forsaw coming threats from the other worlds and the gods. After the return of Guthix, there was a renaissance of sorcery, associated with the druids, since Gielinorians no longer had to watch for extraplanar threats; but the remnants of mysticism persisted too.

22-Mar-2017 15:15:04 - Last edited on 22-Mar-2017 15:16:52 by AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

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The mystics divided themselves into schools: there was a Saradominist school, a Zamorakian school, and a Fremennik school - from which we inherit the three sets of mystic robes (so we can have some lore for those too). I've also proposed the existence of an Armadylean school, a Menaphite school, and a school near Ice Mountain which the modern mystics of Stealing Creation claim as their forebears (*hint hint* - here's an opportunity for three more sets of mystic robes). This last school was destroyed long ago by the dragon Garak. The Menaphite school endures in Menaphos to this day (might be a cool reference for the upcoming release of Menaphos). The Armadylean school collapsed with the fall of Armadyl's empire, and its remnants were absorbed by the Saradominist school. The Zamorakian school, last headquartered in Morytania's slayer tower, collapsed during the backlash against Zamorakians following the burning of the Wizards' Tower - it has been succeeded by the ZMI. The Saradominist school, having absorbed the Armadylean school centuries ago, which itself had absorbed the magical institution founded by Jack in the 1st age, has become the Mage Guild of Yanille that we know today.

22-Mar-2017 15:15:28

AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

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The seers, I propose, are the remnant of the Fremennik school of mysticism. This school alone had preserved the ancient art of runecrafting through all the ages, but because they had access only to the small essence rock of Lunar Isle, they did not develop runic magic beyond what it had been since ancient days. When the main rune essence mine was discovered and modern runic magic was developed by the rest of Gielinor's humans, and in response Gunnar the Hieronoclast began to muster his armies, the last high mystic of the Fremennik school (Obviously his name was Attila - you know, the famous planar theorist who rebelled against the modern trend of thinking of planes like cheese and life like oil. :p) decided to move the remnant of his school south and to forbid the use of runic magics, ancient or modern, for the foreseeable future.

22-Mar-2017 15:15:49 - Last edited on 22-Mar-2017 16:27:01 by AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

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This is where the earlier stuff can fit (@Aquamancer, I surrender the "-by" but am otherwise ok with my headcannon as it is): In the early years of the 5th age, around the same time the Carnilleans rose up against Hazeel in the region of modern-day Ardougne, three other families rose to power in northeastern Kandarin. The Cathers ruled over the region that has become the town of Catherby. The Sinclairs ruled over their modern day holdings, as well as the castle now called Camelot. And the Sothers ruled over the region of what what has become the Seers Village and the sorcerer's tower.

The Fremennik mystics, fleeing their former headquarters in the mountains east of Rellekka, were welcomed by the local druids, and together they formed the seers council. At first, they allied themselves with the powerful Sother family to the south (under whose patronage the metallurgy of Vitruvius especially flourished), and then they procured greater autonomy under King Ulthas within the kingdom of Kandarin. When King Ulthas gave Camelot to Arthur and his knights, he also divided the land of the Sothers - handing over the village of Sotherby to be ruled by the seers council and renaming it Seers Village. The sorcerer's tower today remains in the hands of William Thormac Sother, IV.

Thus the seers averted destruction at the hands of Gunnar and established a new life in Kandarin. Since the end of the crusades, the prohibition against runic magics has hardly been enforced - so that the region exhibits a blend of Fremennik mysticism, druidic sorcery, and modern runic magic. Today the village is peaceful, safe within the borders of Kandarin, but the events of the 6th age have the seers worried again, and ceaselessly straining to peer into the obscurity of the future. Some would like to see the tradition of rigorous mystical studies restored, as in the time of the godwars, but whether the last seers have the will to do this remains to be seen.

22-Mar-2017 15:16:06 - Last edited on 22-Mar-2017 15:59:06 by AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

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Also: the above account would help to explain the intriguing figure of Thormac - a sorcerer, skilled in the construction of mystic staves, and maintaining connections with the Mage Guild.

@everyone else: I am enjoying your responses too; I think some of them might combine nicely with what I'm suggesting, though I haven't attempted to integrate any of them here.

22-Mar-2017 15:41:14

AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

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If you like my account on page 3, I'd recommend drawing from the Fremennik Slayer Dungeon (layers of stone, wooden buttresses, maybe some white and yellow finishings), Taverley, and the sorcerer's tower for the architecture (a post-modern town lol). If you're going for run-down, maybe make it neither dark nor light, or balance the dark and light, so it feels like a place in suspense - it shouldn't look destitute, lest the whole current feel be destroyed. A wagon or two nearby might give the feel that this place was recently settled.

23-Mar-2017 12:59:35

AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

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A book could be kept informative and relatively short:

- We seers have a glorious history, one of the ancient schools of mysticism - of the Fremennik, aside the Saradominists, Zamorakians, Armadyleans, Menaphites, and Pudorians (I just made up this name, based upon some other headcannon, which I'll post below.)

- When our secret art of runecrafting went mainstream and Gunnar amassed his forces, we had to decide: flee to our cousins in the Moon Clan or to the lakes and plains to the south.

- Our last high mystic (Attila ;) ) disbanded the school and led us south, and in order to avoid destruction he forbid the use of runic magics, ancient or modern.

- (The order and dates of these events can be decided: ) (1) We were welcomed by the local druids. (Or: Not long after our arrival, we welcomed some druids fleeing from a coming invasion of trolls in the west.) Together with them, we formed the Seers Council. (2) We sought the protection of the Sother family in the south (under whose patronage the metallurgy of Vitruvius (had - depending on when the Fremennik arrived) flourished. (Or: We also advised the Sothers to shut down the work of the metallurgist Vitruvius, for we mystics could recognize that his creations were becoming far too powerful (or: because his work might have brought the wrath of Gunnar upon our region)) Later, we gained greater autonomy within the kingdom of Kandarin, when King Ulthas divided the land of the Sothers and renamed Sotherby Seers Village.

- Today many forms of magic can be found here - Fremennik mysticism, druidic sorcery, modern runic magic. We seers peer into the future, looking for an end to the tumult of these years we have called the 6th age. Some among us fear that no end lies in sight and would like us to restore the ancient Fremennik school, as in the interminable years of the 3rd age.

23-Mar-2017 13:00:23 - Last edited on 23-Mar-2017 13:03:10 by AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

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Here's the other headcannon, from which I drew the name Pudorians (obviously it is not necessary to use the name - we could make up another name or cut the sixth school altogether):

There was a nation of humans in the early 2nd in what is today Draynor Forest and in cities on and around Ice Mountain. These were wiped out by Zaros. During the 3rd age, the forest land east of Ice Mountain came to be known as Pudor. After the return of Guthix, a small remnant of the ancient nation re-emerged in the village of Strite within the forests of Pudor, along with their ancient mystical school. But they did not last, for the dragon Garak wiped them out. Their loss was avenged by Camorra. More can be found here.

...

Also, as the Fremennik use the title of 'seer' and Saradominists, as well as their more secular successors, use titles of 'mystic,' 'mage,' and 'wizard,' it might be that the Menaphites use, and maybe the Pudorians used, 'magus'/'magi.' Then we could interpret the existing reference to 'magi' as either a misunderstanding of the newly arrived Fremennik mystics or as a polemical attack against them - i.e. associating the mystics with distant, foreign powers.

23-Mar-2017 13:01:33 - Last edited on 23-Mar-2017 17:08:53 by AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

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Aquamancer said:
snip
First - You've read some of my headcannon concerning alternate conceptions of magic before. I developed these a lot more in my recent thread (that I've cited frequently in all my posts here). Neither sorcery nor mysticism should have provided Gielinor's humans with the same capacities that modern runic magic has made possible - 'sorcery' and 'mysticism' are concepts that make sense of those few humans over the millennia who might have cultivated some magical abilities without runestones, such as Virtus. I don't expect these concepts to do much in the way of upsetting existing lore, just to supplement it. Your point about more mystic robes is fair - I'd just like to see what designs they'd make.

Second - I tend to make all the mystics look like seers, but interpret their abilities slightly more broadly than merely looking into the future. In every other case, traditional mystical practices have given way to the new practices of modern runic magic.

Third - I considered the problem of etymology and was just having fun (thus every self-interested suggestion is parenthetical). In more than eight millennia, I'm sure a Fremennik or two has wondered about the planes.

Fourth - Yes, the family names are made up based on place names (originally they literally came from a dream I had). The Sothers might have employed peasant farmers in those lands, or might have patrolled them occasionally, or hunted there...

Fifth - These are fair points. But I've also written headcannon, and I'm open to changes in the lore - I'm not a stickler about all the historical lore.

Sixth - Certainly he does not - I used Thormac to develop my own headcannon tremendously, so my attention to him is simply a byproduct of the writing I've already done.

Last - fair point

23-Mar-2017 20:06:18 - Last edited on 23-Mar-2017 20:14:58 by AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

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Perhaps when the prophecy of a seer-in-training comes true for the first time, this counts as a rite of passage, and the seer is admitted to the council or officially receives the rank of seer. Then, some passages in the book might be accompanied by a note like "and so it happened in the year 162 of the 5th age. So-and-so was welcomed to the council." Since not every passage in the book is likely to have been the prophecy of a seer-in-training, some might be accompanied only by "and so it happened in the year 42 of the 5th age." Maybe even some passages will simply say "in the year 110..." since it would make sense for a few to have come from memory of the past. And finally some passages might be prophecies yet to come true.

28-Mar-2017 20:25:31

AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

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Elf of Seren said:
Eren Lapucet said:
Elf of Seren said:
Speaking of prophecy, could you slip something in there to tease an update or two that would come later in the year?

I know this is a lore thread, but what do you think about the idea of frequently updating the seers' dialogue with future update hints? You know, like a replacement for chaos ele hints and/or a supplement to bts.


That would require a lot of work to keep up. Like, the Chaos Ele stuff stopped eventually, as with most other forms of regular in-game teasers. I was just suggesting doing this once to build up hype for the final two expansions. I mean, if it's doable, it's doable, but I feel like it would be a lot of unnecessary work by Jmods that would be best spent elsewhere.
Maybe the seers, the oracle, and any other similar characters could receive an annual update? This could be announced or unannounced. That wouldn't be too much work, and it would keep these characters interesting.

29-Mar-2017 14:12:20

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