Original message details are unavailable. I wouldn't call it a troll update like the others his or her alt has listed because it's more of player intent to misuse the updates as opposed to Jagex encouraging trolling rather than making money.
Miusaid: Why do you assume it's only one person doing it? By not taking action, it encourages more people to abuse it in future. And those people that abuse it prrrobably won't advertise it to the world like the specific instance you're referencing.
But maybe the reason they haven't done something is because they're done with raffles
Well unless others are not making a big deal over it how can i know if theres more than one?
Again, use some logic.
Thus for the time being i can only talk about that one person.
Miusaid: It doesn't take someone admitting to botting in a video to make you understand that there's more than one botter. Plus if you've been paying attention on the forums, there's at least a few other people using alts in the raffle...
Regardless, the way raffles are set up, it only takes one person with enough time and alts to cause a massive amount of disruption. And since one such person has advertised his actions, it's not unlikely for others to mimic him when the next raffle comes around, amplifying the issue.
I can ask you the same thing, why are you assuming there is more than one person?
Miusaid: Easy. Instead of making it a limited number of items for everyone, make it a fixed chance. Then it's not really a raffle, but at least then people can't abuse it to make other people less likely to get something.
Yet some ppl like the rng aspect of the raffle.
So once again it seems like we're just going in one big circle:
Why ruin something just because of a few/one bad apple(s)?
Tenebrisaid: "Similarly, multi-logged accounts must not interact with each other to exploit gameplay mechanics, such as attempting to rig the result of a minigame.
The rule here would be multiple accounts interacting eachother to exploit gameplay mechanics. Technically they're not interacting with eachother, but they are interacting with the same piece of content, influencing its result. It's grey."
they arent interacting with each other though, they are interacting with the same npc. but thats how you enter the raffle.
i used stealing creations before as that would be rigging it. castle wars easier to use as an example, one on zammy one on sara, the alt on sara takes zammy flag and doesnt score with it. rigging the game against rules...
this isnt the case for this, they are all individually involved in the raffle. the only things thats effected with huge number of alts doing it. is obviously chance of getting the said winning prize. but then thats also said with 2 accounts, youve increased chance by double.
Miusaid: The winnings may only affect one account, but the chances impact everyone. Therein lies the issue with the raffle. You're focusing on whether it's "abuse" or not and not on potential solutions.
If the raffle was done with fixed chances, then you could do as many alts as you like, but none of those alts would negatively impact anyone else.
Yet why call it a "raffle" at this point?
You just have to deal that ppl will abuse anything they can and sometimes theres nothing that can/will be done.
Tenebrisaid: just wanted to make sure i understood where you stand on the "issue" im still going to use my alt on raffle (just the one dont worry). as the chance of the raffle is for individual accounts not people behind them.
Dont see why it matter how many you use as nothing will ever happen.
Tenebrisaid: you can say meth sales are a hit yes. cause well it is in high demand with a high price, and has a huge income.
yes 9/11 did happen because of religion. i dont see what that has to do here? its not about beliefs....
fine ill try once more for your brain to try understand.
you go to a pool party you dislike that people can pee in a pool the owner of said house of pool party. says he doesnt care. does you complaining about it do anything? the pool party is now over. you still constantly talk about 1 person peeing in the pool. is the owner now going to do something about it even though its now finished?
i lolled at "unthinkable" acts.... you honestly think what he did was unthinkably immoral?
Whatusaytomesaid: The raffle is not intended to be rigged. At all. Hence the reason they limit the number of tickets available per account, and why they don't sell the tickets outright allowing everybody to have access to higher odds.
Yet its not being rigged and jagex have confirmed this person isnt.
Tenebrisaid: hes just ignoring everything he doesnt agree with....
especially as he purposely ignored the questions to keep this conversation on track. yet just doesnt help the conversation at all. and seems to be talking about anything he feels fit and doesnt care if its on topic or not.... so meh not feeding troll
Ironman Gupsaid: I think the problem here is you guys are saying raffle rigging isn't against the rules, so we should allow it while I'm saying that due to the harm it does to the game it should be changed to being against the rules.
I still believe the rules need to be checked again.
The rules have been checked.
Its just you that wants this person banned for no good reason.
Whatusaytomesaid: Read Iron's signature. Stand up for what's Right, not what's allowed. Just because something is allowed currently doesn't make it right. Hence our argument for Morality, which for some reason, you care nothing about.
Whatusaytomesaid: We are talking about the unfair alt use, be it in the raffle or not. And I am expanding it to all limited events because the raffle is only one of many that get rigged. Stop minimizing everything.
Yet once again, it only "unfair" in yours and OP's minds. No one elses.
Tenebrisaid: im sure if you phrased it differently instead of using the negative "rigging" and used "how do you feel about alts being used in raffle?" the % of agreeing and idsagreeing would be different.
Whatusaytomesaid: Whatusaytomesaid: why not simply allow tickets to be bought? For gp, loyalty points, rc, dollars, whatever. Already been said I'm fine with another method as long as it's openly available to people.
Like how ppl dislike th for being p2w yet this would make the raffles pretty much the same thing
Whatusaytomesaid: No, paying for odds is not a guaranteed win. TH is always guaranteed prizes. The raffle may clean you and give you nothing. So it's not p2w.
I never said it was 100% guaranteed now did I?
Plz reread what i did say:
Draco Burnzsaid: How is paying to get better odds thus pretty much as close to near guarantee you can get not p2w?
Whatusaytomesaid: People don't use golden's for combat. They use the repairable versions. They use goldens for cosmetic interest, mostly by keepsake or equipping without using. If you actually use them for combat, you still aren't even close to being tiered enough for most bosses. So it's not p2w.
How do you know this for sure?
I mean if they cant afford the normal armor but can wear it, id see why theyd use it.
Tenebrisaid: and im discussing them... jesus you are difficult
so you arent going to give me more information on your idea. cause i have the "general idea" of it.
nice help you are.. have good time this is why things havent changed since the start of thread.... congrats best to give more information on your idea. then we can go into a compromise.... its how things work, there actually needs to be a discussion. if you arent willing to discuss your own idea. why even post off topic stuff?
good luck to anyone else wanting a "discussion" youll just get pushed to off topic, then get told you are troll. even though your questions never get answered and are the one keeping it being on topic by only responding to the topic itself
dont accuse me of what you are doing yourself it just shows lack of respect for yourself and the person you are speaking to
Ironman Gupsaid: All we want is to make it so people cant rig the raffle with the intention of diluting the reward pool for others. You can make a hard cap of how many alt accounts you can use before it is most likely going into that (i.e. 10 accounts). That doesnt impair players rights except those rigging the raffle. Period.
Yet its pretty much near impossible to do this w/o hurting legit players.
I mean it makes no sense for there to be any caps, nothing is tradeable thus it doesnt hurt the economy in the slightest.
I get it you want better chances at rewards, but sometimes you cant always have everything you want.
Ironman Gupsaid: If you were stabbed on the sidewalk and someone said that to you as a result, I would sympathies with you even though you are trying to do something similar here by deflecting the argument with that statement here.
Ironman Gupsaid: I think it is more important to do something that will negatively affect very few accounts then to leave a problem that hurts everyone. If you limit the amount of accounts you can enter the raffle in to 10, then almost all players will have no loss (maybe a few) but the players benefit with more rewards that were intended to be given to them.
Thats the thing though, the rewards arent meant to be easy to get so by limiting the amount that can enter, you are doing just that.
Hence why it doesnt make sense to put a cap on this.
Whatusaytomesaid: He says it isn't meant to be easy, but one player multiplying his own odds and lowering everybody else's odds for his own gain is fine. It's allowed and meant to be easy for him, but not us. That's why he's against the limit.
Plz dont mis-quote what i said.
Jagex is as much for this as i am as they have said multiple times this person isnt doing anything wrong.
Ironman Gupsaid: Also we are saying the rules should be changed to reflect the immorality of raffle riggers actions. It is why people are no longer allowed to shoot scotish people sailig into the UK despite it being allowed in the past.
Yet jagex have said there isnt anything wrong, thus no need for any rule changes.
Tenebrisaid: and there are no raffle riggers so is hunky dory :L been almost a month with this being bumped to front page 100% time. no one commented. it seems no one cares... if they did theyd post here to support this