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Raffle being lazy

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Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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Hi all,

After seeing how this years raffle as handled in September, I think it has been made clear that events like this affect the games integrity.

1) This event actively encourages trolling. Jagex has ignored criticism from previous years and made this raffle easy to rig. This has resulted in some players (Mostly one player) rigging the system, diluting the reward pool for legitimate players. As there is only a set amount of rewards, actions like this should be against the rules. However, both Jagex Moderators and Forum Moderators have stood in support of this kind of behaviour.

2) The way this handles shows Jagex's true intention. Jagex have chosen to focus on maximizing their profits rather than protecting the integrity of the game. Some updates are made to encourage trolls to participate (E.G the Spamming banner from Solomons). jagex should be avoiding these kinds of situations where they sell trolls an ability to trol further for money, however there hasn't been anything set in place to stop this kind of behaviour.

3) If actions like this are encouraged by a lack of action, people will retaliate in response. As seen throughout the month, others were making fake threads saying they have 300+ accounts as an attempt to bait players. Since the forums encourage these kinds of posts, they are actively inviting these kinds of trolls. I can foresee that next year when the raffle is added again (Because lets face it, Jagex will add it again), this kind of trolling will happen on a much larger scale.

4) There was a lot of backlash in the beginning of the month from this. Jagex covered up the backlash by having more backlash in other areas (As players focus on MTX's). Keep in mind that Jagex don't just care about maximizing profits through only microtransactions, but by adding updates for trolls to utilize.
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

13-Sep-2017 13:34:24 - Last edited on 01-Aug-2018 08:23:09 by Ironman Gup

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13-Sep-2017 13:35:29

Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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Just dont want people to accuse me later on of being an alt and say that I'm hiding it :p


Legitimate concern, tbh.


What do you mean
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

06-Oct-2017 11:36:11

Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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What do you mean


Nothing that matters and is open for discussion as thats not the topic of this thread.


Since it isnt related to OP, I will not need to comment about their quote further.
Thank you for your sound advice
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

06-Oct-2017 16:13:07

Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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Removed.


All good

I also won't forget what Miu done just before, as I was talking about a recent update and related this to MTX
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

23-Oct-2017 03:27:55 - Last edited on 23-Oct-2017 03:30:00 by Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:
Ironman Gup said:
Turksta said:
Ironman Gup said:
I bet the raffle was a way to get more membership deals due to people quitting because of MTX

LOL
+1


$$$


a company wanting to make money, and having a strategy to do so? oh my god the horror.... its like thats what they want to do or something?


Oh i know they are doing it for money, they are just ignoring the ethics in their recent updates though.

I could use the same excuse to sell 8 year olds some coke if I wanted, and make lifetime customers after they become addicts
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

03-Feb-2018 14:58:28

Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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Draco Burnz said:
Miu said:
Support, raffles should stop being implemented.


Well sadly as its a reoccurring event plus how many ppl like it, i dont see them stopping it any time soon.


Unfortunately so

I will remind players in Seprember to be vocal about not wanting this upcoming raffle to be riggable by Flarefox or others
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

25-May-2018 03:23:54

Ironman Gup

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Just make it so everyone has a fixed drop rate so trolls cant ruin it for others.

Draco Burnz said:
Miu said:
Not really. RSC was full of bots that were never banned. That doesn't mean botting was within the rules.

Regardless of the rules, it's an issue with the raffle and should be addressed.


It has been addressed before and im pretty sure theyve said they arent going to do anything about it.


Correct, Jagex makes far too much money off this to care
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

27-May-2018 04:20:31

Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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Astral V2 said:
Ironman Gup said:
Just make it so everyone has a fixed drop rate so trolls cant ruin it for others.


Nah the way it is is just fine IMO.

I mean loads of others seems to be ok with it otherwise they wouldnt always be asking for it to return.


Only 1 person with 500 alts wants this
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

17-Jun-2018 08:10:47

Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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Draco Burnz said:
Ironman Gup said:
Only 1 person with 500 alts wants this


Like how you say this w/o any proof.

I can very easily disprove this as i also cant wait for the raffle to return.


Did you want it to return with a fixed number of rewards that can be rigged? Thats specifically what i was referring to in the above post
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

30-Jun-2018 02:31:07

Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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Draco Burnz said:
Ironman Gup said:
Did you want it to return with a fixed number of rewards that can be rigged? Thats specifically what i was referring to in the above post


Uhh, tbh theres no way to change that it'll always have a limited amount of rewards as i dont think its possible to make something have "unlimited" number of rewards so...


I'm saying they should have a set drop rate so Raffle Riggers like the Fox cant ruin drop rates for others
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

02-Jul-2018 09:36:51

Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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Draco Burnz said:
Ironman Gup said:
Usually you can't rig raffles.


It's also getting very close to September...


What does any of this have to do with what i said?


1) I'm saying they should do a specific drop rate since its riggable for people like fox. Normal raffles have a set number of rewards, but equally they arent riggable.

2) September is when the Raffle is coming back out
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

01-Aug-2018 08:07:25

Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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Draco Burnz said:
Ironman Gup said:
Usually you can't rig raffles.


It's also getting very close to September...


What does any of this have to do with what i said?


1) I'm saying they should do a specific drop rate since its riggable for people like fox. Normal raffles have a set number of rewards, but equally they arent riggable.

2) September is when the Raffle is coming back out
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

01-Aug-2018 08:07:28

Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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Ezma said:
Can we try to guess who the OP named in the unedited initial shot...for prizes?

I have some very good ideas.


Well Im an ironman and cant give prizes, but guess away.

I'm going to assume the 2nd post wasn't directed at me....
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

16-Aug-2018 07:13:02 - Last edited on 16-Aug-2018 07:13:40 by Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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Draco Burnz said:
Raffles are not going to be rigable this year:

https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/9axibb/raffle_rigging/

https://puu.sh/BlTM2/84b072b6d2.png


Good stuff!

All I'm waiting for now is confirmation that players who attempt to bypass these changes get banned
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

29-Aug-2018 08:44:52

Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:
Ironman Gup said:
Draco Burnz said:
Raffles are not going to be rigable this year:

https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/9axibb/raffle_rigging/

https://puu.sh/BlTM2/84b072b6d2.png


Good stuff!

All I'm waiting for now is confirmation that players who attempt to bypass these changes get banned


how would one know if anyone was?

i have 2 accounts this one and my alt. would i be bypassing it if i used both? not the 2k alts others have


Unfortunately Jagex have been vague about this :/.

I would find it disappointing if you cant use your 1 alt account and 1 main account. I was thinking having a minimin skill total would be a better option, but oh well
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

29-Aug-2018 11:03:01

Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:
Ironman Gup said:
Draco Burnz said:
Raffles are not going to be rigable this year:

https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/9axibb/raffle_rigging/

https://puu.sh/BlTM2/84b072b6d2.png


Good stuff!

All I'm waiting for now is confirmation that players who attempt to bypass these changes get banned


how would one know if anyone was?

i have 2 accounts this one and my alt. would i be bypassing it if i used both? not the 2k alts others have


Unfortunately Jagex have been vague about this :/.

I would find it disappointing if you cant use your 1 alt account and 1 main account. I was thinking having a minimin skill total would be a better option, but oh well
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

29-Aug-2018 11:03:03

Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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Miu said:
Draco Burnz said:
Ironman Gup said:
I would find it disappointing if you cant use your 1 alt account and 1 main account. I was thinking having a minimin skill total would be a better option, but oh well


Yet again lvl req do no good as ppl can easily reach them no matter the number of acc.

Yes it might take a while but if a person has enough time on their hands...


True, especially if someone already abuses enough alts, they probably have the means to earn tons of XP lamps from the rampant XP giveaways.


True
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

01-Sep-2018 08:19:28

Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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JorisCeoen said:
Ironman Gup said:
This event actively encourages trolling. Jagex has ignored criticism from previous years and made this raffle easy to rig. This has resulted in some players (Mostly one player) rigging the system, diluting the reward pool for legitimate players. As there is only a set amount of rewards, actions like this should be against the rules.

The raffle is a free event, completely up to you to participate. You have to be a member to participate, just like 90% of the entire game. If you don't like the circumstances around it, you are always able to drop out, and simply not participate. If at all, the raffle is also
free experience
, let's say you're going for a 120 skill, the xp from each and every ticket from beginning till end of this event, free of charge, is insane.

Don't cry about something that requires absolutely no effort. If at all, it provides Jagex with the monetary support for future updates. Saying that it interfers with the integrity of the game is ridicilous.


I like how you say that while having a golden warpriest set as your avitar pic.

Since golden items are only obtainable via the raffle (and not any other way) they should either make it so you could obtain it via other means or make the raffle non riggable
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

23-Sep-2018 09:24:33

Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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JorisCeoen said:

I loooooooooove this raffle, and I'm extremely happy they allow the ability to rig it. It's amazing, it adds to the rarity, and makes a lot of people very angry ^_^ the angrier they get, the more tickets get made, and the rarer the sets become (as many duplicates get destroyed for getting the actual non-golden variants).


So you're saying you want people to be upset because it makes the items arrer and makes you happy?

Sounds pretty douche'y IMO, coming from someone with all those golden items as stated (and boasted by you)
You should probably go to RuneFest and tell people who havent won items your views
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

04-Oct-2018 07:34:51 - Last edited on 04-Oct-2018 07:37:55 by Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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JorisCeoen said:
Ironman Gup said:
So you're saying you want people to be upset because it makes the items rarer and makes you happy?
Exactly! :D


Well I cant stop you from trying to upset others

I also can't stop people like Osama Bin Laden from causing 9/11 or stop people from Raping others, therefore people will do it and (by your logic) should do it.
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

06-Oct-2018 02:58:54 - Last edited on 06-Oct-2018 03:00:26 by Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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Draco Burnz said:
Ironman Gup said:


Dont see what either of those have to do with the topic but ok.


Because Joris wants no restrictions on the raffle so he can troll and upset others?

I'm saying theres reasons why you put restrictions in place to avoid that, otherwise we wouldnt care when 9/11 or rape happens
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

13-Oct-2018 01:56:40

Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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CoolBeans568 said:
Ironman Gup said:


What does either of those have to do with the topic though?

This isnt discussing 9/11 or rape but this fascination you have with the raffle.


Yeah, and whether or not raffle riggers should be banned. I mentioned the above points you mentioned as someone stated that you should be able to rig the raffle to upset others. That isnt a good justification for making 9/11 or rape good, so why should it be a good defence to why you should be able to rig the raffle?
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

14-Oct-2018 07:21:17

Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:
Ironman Gup said:
Draco Burnz said:
Ironman Gup said:


Dont see what either of those have to do with the topic but ok.


Because Joris wants no restrictions on the raffle so he can troll and upset others?

I'm saying theres reasons why you put restrictions in place to avoid that, otherwise we wouldnt care when 9/11 or rape happens


you just went from 0 - 100 very quickly


More like 30 to 100, but it is to show that their logic as to why something is acceptable was fundamentally flawed
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

14-Oct-2018 10:44:13

Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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CoolBeans568 said:
Tenebri said:
considering this isnt even "existing content" anymore as its a temporary one that comes once a year why bump it?


Can think of multiple reasons why but thats not the point in this thread.


Since the current system still encourages raffle rigging, as players dont get their accts banned for it
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

22-Oct-2018 04:41:07

Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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CoolBeans568 said:
Ironman Gup said:
I also think my low number of bumps also shows that a fox cares more about the raffle than i do


TFW, you're the one doing the bumping...


I'm not the one using all my whole day to rig the raffle
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

23-Oct-2018 06:14:57

Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:

you use word rigging which is fine. but when the owner of said raffle doesnt see it that way.

maybe its time to move on


Just because he says it isnt rigging doesnt mean it isnt.
Otherwise people could say shooting someone in the head isnt murder lol
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

23-Oct-2018 06:16:51

Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:

let me rephrase for you poppet.


the owner of said raffle doesnt give a flying %$£& about the riggers. so why on earth do you think they care about your whining about it?

because they dont see anything wrong with it. infact they think sweeeeeeet look at all these tickets being bought. it must be a hit

that make more sense treacle?

so please refrain from twisting things it just means ill treat you like a child.


Are you looking from Jagex's point of view? If so, couldnt I say high meth sales means its a hit?

As with Fox or Jagex not having a problem with rigging, Jagex was ignoring it for the profit and the Fox knows what he is doing. Otherwise people can make excuses for what we see as unthinkable acts.

Remember 9/11 happened because of peoples religious beliefs.1



I also noticed that you are trying to troll by treating me as a child. I ask that you refrain from doing that if you wish to post on this thread.
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

26-Oct-2018 06:25:09

Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:

you go to a pool party
you dislike that people can pee in a pool
the owner of said house of pool party. says he doesnt care.
does you complaining about it do anything?
the pool party is now over.
you still constantly talk about 1 person peeing in the pool.
is the owner now going to do something about it even though its now finished?


You go to a friends house
You dislike how people are planning on committing a terrorist attack in a school
The owner of said house says he doesn't care
Does your complaining do anything?
The terrorists attack is now over
You still constantly are upset about how 30 school children were murdered in the school
Is the owner now going to do something about it even though it has now finished?


Remember the rules stated you cannot rig minigames using alt accounts. Mnay people have been banned from it in the past. Just because they are trying to say you are allowed to break the rules in 1 area doesnt mean you should.
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

26-Oct-2018 23:16:53

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04-Nov-2018 03:23:17

Ironman Gup

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Tren said:
@ Ironman Gup & @ Tenebri - Enough! Enough of the personal attacks and running to report each other to Forum Help, when it's both of you doing the same.

You are both equally to blame for the derailing of this thread with your personal arguments and attacks on each other. It stops now. If you cannot respond to each other without including personal comments, then better to ignore each other's responses.

Now please stick to the topic.

Ironman Gup said:
To get things back on topic, I think a bit mroe was done this year to improve the integrity of the raffle but still more needs to be done to improve it for the future


Thank you very much :D
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

04-Nov-2018 04:01:06

Ironman Gup

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Draco Burnz said:
Tenebri said:
you can say meth sales are a hit yes. cause well it is in high demand with a high price, and has a huge income.


yes 9/11 did happen because of religion. i dont see what that has to do here? its not about beliefs....


fine ill try once more for your brain to try understand.

you go to a pool party
you dislike that people can pee in a pool
the owner of said house of pool party. says he doesnt care.
does you complaining about it do anything?
the pool party is now over.
you still constantly talk about 1 person peeing in the pool.
is the owner now going to do something about it even though its now finished?


i lolled at "unthinkable" acts.... you honestly think what he did was unthinkably immoral?

rofl thats actually hilarious


Have to agree here.


You have always just came here to disagree lol but w/e. I have explained why I think that argument doesn't hold up.

Welcome back on ur main btw.
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

06-Nov-2018 05:35:59

Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:
Ironman Gup said:
Draco Burnz said:
Tenebri said:
you can say meth sales are a hit yes. cause well it is in high demand with a high price, and has a huge income.


yes 9/11 did happen because of religion. i dont see what that has to do here? its not about beliefs....


fine ill try once more for your brain to try understand.

you go to a pool party
you dislike that people can pee in a pool
the owner of said house of pool party. says he doesnt care.
does you complaining about it do anything?
the pool party is now over.
you still constantly talk about 1 person peeing in the pool.
is the owner now going to do something about it even though its now finished?


i lolled at "unthinkable" acts.... you honestly think what he did was unthinkably immoral?

rofl thats actually hilarious


Have to agree here
.


You
have always just came here to disagree
lol but w/e. I have explained why I think that argument doesn't hold up.

Welcome back on ur main btw.


you did try and explain yes. but it failed so keep going


Only in your opinion (and likely Draco's) did it fail.
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

07-Nov-2018 04:40:38

Ironman Gup

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Whatusaytome said:
Tren said:


Ironman Gup said:
To get things back on topic, I think a bit mroe was done this year to improve the integrity of the raffle but still more needs to be done to improve it for the future
Whether or not anybody disagrees with Iron, he is right with his opinion stating the raffle needs more done to have any Integrity at all, since one player is allowed to buy more rights than everybody else.

Tenebri, Draco. It doesn't matter if you disagree. I have heard you both claim that him being allowed to do what he does is annoying. So just stop defending him.

When "rights" get abused, or have that chance to be, regulations to balance those rights get set. This is not unusual and it doesn't stop anybody from using their REAL alts. It regulates alt use to be fair and prevents thousands of throwaway accounts from rigging the events.

Whether you disagree with fairness in general, or you disagree with us. You aren't helping anybody other than this one person by defending "what he is allowed to do now" without thinking a change can be made for the greater good of future events.


Agreed. We need to really improve the integrity of the raffle
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

16-Nov-2018 06:59:07

Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:
Draco Burnz said:
Tenebri said:
you did try and explain yes. but it failed so keep going


Agreed.

So far everything hes said has been debunked.
.


or is just an opinion that holds validity on doing something.


@ Draco, if it can be debunked then it must be an objective issue. I think it is not helping anyones case when you try to dismiss someones argument on a subjective matter with a 'I'm right, you're wrong'. Otherwise you get people like Kim Jong Un in charge.

@ Tenebri, I dont completely understand that but your response is sorry
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

16-Nov-2018 07:02:17

Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:
Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:
Draco Burnz said:
Tenebri said:
you did try and explain yes. but it failed so keep going


Agreed.

So far everything hes said has been debunked.
.


or is just an opinion that holds
no
validity on doing something.


@ Draco, if it can be debunked then it must be an objective issue. I think it is not helping anyones case when you try to dismiss someones argument on a subjective matter with a 'I'm right, you're wrong'. Otherwise you get people like Kim Jong Un in charge.

@ Tenebri, I dont completely understand that but your response is sorry



made a typo in it changed it in quote
and it just means your ideas on this are just opinion. and thats all you post is the opinion not anything to back up a change for it.
like you say with mine


It is all opinion, btoh your side and mine.

I think there does need to be a change as there was with gambling back in the day. Remember when gambling was within the rules of the game but done massive harm to the game? The rules were changed to no longer allow it. I believe the same should be done to the raffle rigging
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

17-Nov-2018 03:55:01

Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:
Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:
Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:
Draco Burnz said:
Tenebri said:
you did try and explain yes. but it failed so keep going


Agreed.

So far everything hes said has been debunked.
.


or is just an opinion that holds
no
validity on doing something.


@ Draco, if it can be debunked then it must be an objective issue. I think it is not helping anyones case when you try to dismiss someones argument on a subjective matter with a 'I'm right, you're wrong'. Otherwise you get people like Kim Jong Un in charge.

@ Tenebri, I dont completely understand that but your response is sorry



made a typo in it changed it in quote
and it just means your ideas on this are just opinion. and thats all you post is the opinion not anything to back up a change for it.
like you say with mine


It is all opinion, btoh your side and mine.

I think there does need to be a change as there was with gambling back in the day. Remember when gambling was within the rules of the game but done massive harm to the game? The rules were changed to no longer allow it. I believe the same should be done to the raffle rigging


yes i do, player run games of chance.

this is completely different matter literally completely different


I'm not saying anybody raffle rigging is breaking the player game of chance rule, im saying rules need to be added to include avoiding raffle rigging. The easiest way is to cover this in minigame manipulation
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

17-Nov-2018 11:20:11

Ironman Gup

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@ Tenebri

The same could be said about gambling then, it could have been left ingame and be allowed by players.

It was banned to improve the integrity of the game, and the same should be done for raffle rigging
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

18-Nov-2018 09:56:50

Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:
Ironman Gup said:
@ Tenebri

The same could be said about gambling then, it could have been left ingame and be allowed by players.

It was banned to improve the integrity of the game, and the same should be done for raffle rigging


no not at all the player run game of chance was destroying the game. rwt scamming etc
this one raffle that lasts a month that only effects the one account as they rewards cant be traded over.... is not the same at all

not only that but with gambling laws jagex have to abide by with this raffle its not the same.


you really are grasping at straws arent you


But scamming and RWT were both against the rules prior to that, so wouldnt the rule change be unnecessary if gambling was okay?

Not all gambling was destroying the game. Neither was people participating in the raffle. However when you get raffle riggers that intend to ham the integrity of the game then action should be taken.

I also know these cases arent the same, but they are similar in terms of morality.

I don't believe I am grasping at straws. Your defemce for the 1 person is that raffle rigging is not against the rules. While that is true, I am proposing we should look at rule changes to make it so raffle rigging is against the rules and have stated that it would help keep the integrity of the game.
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19-Nov-2018 09:34:41

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Whatusaytome said:
aren't you? Look at you still defending just one person where many players don't approve of. Look at you desperately responding to us, claiming everything he does is fine, yet you say it is annoying to you? Why contradict yourself?

Is your purpose just to get Jagex all the profit they can get? If so, why not just allow everybody else to buy the rights to bypass rules as well, since this guy can? Is it right that money buys rights and privileges that only apply to one person? If it's not something everybody can do, right or wrong, it needs to be regulated to a point where the majority is able to do the same if they wished.

Don't worry, it's a good idea because Jagex will make BANK! And only a few people will complain on the forums so only they will be the ones affected obviously. Right? That's the logic you keep giving us.


I think we were very fortunate this year that people on reddit were asking before the raffle begun whether any action will be done to deter a player from raffle rigging. This raffle rigging has gone on for so long that people are aware that if any event like this happens, there will be 1 person out there intending to ruin it.
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19-Nov-2018 09:42:23

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20-Nov-2018 09:14:11

Ironman Gup

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Draco Burnz said:
Ironman Gup said:
I believe raffle rigging should be a bannable offence based on being immoral as is botting


Yet jagex have already said it isnt.

So you keep going on about this is going nowhere fast.


Okay.

I'll keep it up as I believe stopping raffle riggins will help improve the integrity of the game :).
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23-Nov-2018 04:28:19

Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:
Ironman Gup said:
Draco Burnz said:
Ironman Gup said:
I believe raffle rigging should be a bannable offence based on being immoral as is botting


Yet jagex have already said it isnt.

So you keep going on about this is going nowhere fast.


Okay.

I'll keep it up as I believe stopping raffle riggins will help improve the integrity of the game :).


people think pking people who are skilling in wildy is immoral should that be bannable offence?


In most cases, no.

The difference being the wildy was made for pvp, the raffle wasnt made to be rigged
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24-Nov-2018 03:04:20 - Last edited on 24-Nov-2018 03:04:54 by Ironman Gup

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Draco Burnz said:
Ironman Gup said:
The difference being the wildy was made for pvp, the raffle wasnt made to be rigged


Yet in a way everything can be "rigged" if you know how to exploit it correctly.


The game was made in a way to make it possible to bot. Does that mean people should bot because the game was made in a way where it's possible to bot?

How about when people find a bug? The game was made that way, so should people exploit it?
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27-Nov-2018 04:48:59

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I think the problem here is you guys are saying raffle rigging isn't against the rules, so we should allow it while I'm saying that due to the harm it does to the game it should be changed to being against the rules.

I still believe the rules need to be checked again.
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07-Dec-2018 04:37:41 - Last edited on 07-Dec-2018 04:40:38 by Ironman Gup

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Draco Burnz said:
Whatusaytome said:
The raffle is not intended to be rigged. At all. Hence the reason they limit the number of tickets available per account, and why they don't sell the tickets outright allowing everybody to have access to higher odds.


Yet its not being rigged and jagex have confirmed this person isnt.

So whos the ignorant one again?


Where is the proof he isnt rigging the raffle?
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07-Dec-2018 04:38:22

Ironman Gup

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Draco Burnz said:
Ironman Gup said:
Where is the proof he isnt rigging the raffle?


Its been said on streams before by multiple jmods.

Plus its just logical.

Theres no where in the rules that says you cant use multiple acc to partake in an event.


If he isnt rigging the raffle how is he making vids of destrying a bunch of Golden Barrows outfits then?

Also could you provide an example of the streams you referenced
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11-Dec-2018 11:05:13

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Tenebri said:


A while ago you even said that what he was doing is wrong.

The harm that is done is raffle riggers are intentionally diluting the reward pool of useful items (items with stats) for the legitimate players. Even if it was only cosmetic, raffle riggers are robbing people from a chance to win the items.

You have made a comparison between RL and RS raffles. I would say they are not comparable, in the same way as gambling on RS & RL isnt comparable. Just because gambling is allowed irl doesnt mean it's allowed to happen ingame.

Another argument you make is anyone can say "It is immoral" without proof. I have stated why it is immoral many times, and your main argument was it is not against the rules. The argument that "you need proof" for something subjective is also problematic. I could use the same logic to ask why the Khasoggi murder is immoral, and ask for objective proof as to why its not okay.
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11-Dec-2018 11:13:00

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Draco Burnz said:
Whatusaytome said:
Read Iron's signature. Stand up for what's Right, not what's allowed. Just because something is allowed currently doesn't make it right. Hence our argument for Morality, which for some reason, you care nothing about.


Yet you're the only ppl who think it isnt right.

Jagex and most others dont seem to care.


Most people care, Jagex and you are the only people who I've seen in support of raffle rigging
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12-Dec-2018 09:51:53

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Tenebri said:
so how does diluting the item pool effect the game? esepcailly when these items are not tradeable and dont effect economy or actual game play. as stated they are only cosmetic different to low tier items already.

you are now using murder? as a comparable. if i cant use rl raffle to compare to rs raffle. rl murder to a rs raffle surely is far from acceptable hahahaha

and to answer murder is immoral i agree.

but can we talk about the raffle at hand? not murder etc doesnt get anywhere to help your case of getting it be against rules.

all youve done is show morality is somewhat subjective and holds no relevance to this argument anymore


1) It affects peoples experience with the game

2) I'm not saying the murder is as mad as raffle rigging. I am saying your argument that one person (ie. you) cannot determine what is morally acceptable. Most rs players are against Raffle rigging.

3. Quite often I see you say that others are getting off track when they are on it. I have seen comments in the past that have shown intentions of being off-topic, so I ask kindly for you to stop trying to take the high ground on this when people are on-topic. If you cannot do this then I would ask that you make your own thread on the topic if you still have concerns regarding this topic rather than posting here. I would like the thread to stay on topic and I feel this may be an attempt to do the opposite given the past comments made.
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12-Dec-2018 09:57:18 - Last edited on 12-Dec-2018 10:02:50 by Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:

can you elaborate how its immoral. as stated before just saying its immoral doesnt mean it is. also stated previous post morality is subjective and cant be used as a reasoning to change a rule. so more is needed not just "its immoral"


Laws are generally made on morality (Although there are often discrepancies).

I have stated that morality is subjective, but to say that it isnt enough to changes rules is not correct. Otherwise I could say we should be allowed to murder people because morals don't matter
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12-Dec-2018 10:01:46

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Draco Burnz said:
Whatusaytome said:
We are talking about the unfair alt use, be it in the raffle or not. And I am expanding it to all limited events because the raffle is only one of many that get rigged. Stop minimizing everything.


Yet once again, it only "unfair" in yours and OP's minds. No one elses.

Thus theres nothing wrong going on here.


I've seen you ant tenebri use this statement so I will elaborate.

Ask around and there are many people who dislike raffle rigging. There are posts with hundreds of upvotes criticising the raffle rigger as well as asking for raffle rigigng to be hindered, and you are ignoring all those poeple.

Forums is very inactive compared to the rest of the commuity. There are few people posting on here but it seems threads attract trolls who are more likely to agree with raffle rigging.

I don't see why anyone thinks only 2 people think raffle rigging should be against the rules, unless they are deliberately ignoring information to help with their own argument.
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13-Dec-2018 06:02:01

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13-Dec-2018 06:04:54

Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:
Ironman Gup said:
Draco Burnz said:
Whatusaytome said:
We are talking about the unfair alt use, be it in the raffle or not. And I am expanding it to all limited events because the raffle is only one of many that get rigged. Stop minimizing everything.


Yet once again, it only "unfair" in yours and OP's minds. No one elses.

Thus theres nothing wrong going on here.


I've seen you ant tenebri use this statement so I will elaborate.

Ask around and there are many people who dislike raffle rigging. There are posts with hundreds of upvotes criticising the raffle rigger as well as asking for raffle rigigng to be hindered, and you are ignoring all those poeple.

Forums is very inactive compared to the rest of the commuity. There are few people posting on here but it seems threads attract trolls who are more likely to agree with raffle rigging.

I don't see why anyone thinks only 2 people think raffle rigging should be against the rules, unless they are deliberately ignoring information to help with their own argument.


im sure if you phrased it differently instead of using the negative "rigging" and used "how do you feel about alts being used in raffle?"
the % of agreeing and idsagreeing would be different.


I think you trying to say it is 50% support of raffle rigging is more iaccurate than me using a negative word.
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14-Dec-2018 09:41:55

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Tuffty said:
I removed a post 1 page back for naming and shaming someone off site.

Please don't. It's still against the rules to post about it on these forums.


Sorry, I thought with nobodys name being mentioned it would be fine. The link was also talking about forum trolls in general and was stated to not mean anyone specifically
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17-Dec-2018 04:29:15

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Deathtouch darts can be used to kill bosses at lvl 3 to get valuable drops, so they do have value.

You also are trying to mislead when you said my wording is poor. I dont mind people using the raffle on alt accounts they use. I don't approve of raffle rigger making thousands of accounts to troll others.
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18-Dec-2018 05:27:53

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Tenebri said:
Whatusaytome said:
Dude, just stop. Enter on alts you'd want the prizes on, dont enter on thousands, because you won't use them. That's rigging.
And it's useless.


You still can't even comment on an alternative method of investing in the raffle.


you are right the rewards are useless except dt darts and proteans, which cant be traded and they dont effect the game at all. so whats the problem?


Again a nice attempt to deliberately misinterpret what Whatusaytome said. He is saying the rewrads are useless to the raffle rigger, not to the general public. For example the protean packs could give legitimate players xp, which seems to be important to you as you play all day for it and have it as your signature.
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18-Dec-2018 05:32:53 - Last edited on 18-Dec-2018 05:33:56 by Ironman Gup

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Integrity talks about having strong moral principles. I don't know how you reached the conclusion of me saying the raffle doesnt affect the games integrity (Unless you are deliberately trying to misinterpret what I said). By allowing players to rig the raffle in the way it has been rigged in the past, it is asking for trolls to take over who have a lack of morals and ruin the gameplay for others.

I will also ask you to stop trolling others on this thread, and deliberately misinterpreting others. I understand that there is occasionally miscommunication on a platform such as forums, but given statements in the past I do have reason to believe this is more of a trolling attempt to get the thread derailed. If you wish to have a meaningful and honest discussion on the topic then you are always welcome to post here (even if you disagree with me) but if you continue with the way you are I will ask that you refrain from posting.
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19-Dec-2018 05:29:54 - Last edited on 19-Dec-2018 05:34:29 by Ironman Gup

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All we want is to make it so people cant rig the raffle with the intention of diluting the reward pool for others. You can make a hard cap of how many alt accounts you can use before it is most likely going into that (i.e. 10 accounts). That doesnt impair players rights except those rigging the raffle. Period. Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

26-Dec-2018 03:02:19

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Draco Burnz said:
Ironman Gup said:
All we want is to make it so people cant rig the raffle with the intention of diluting the reward pool for others. You can make a hard cap of how many alt accounts you can use before it is most likely going into that (i.e. 10 accounts). That doesnt impair players rights except those rigging the raffle. Period.


Yet its pretty much near impossible to do this w/o hurting legit players.

I mean it makes no sense for there to be any caps, nothing is tradeable thus it doesnt hurt the economy in the slightest.

I get it you want better chances at rewards, but sometimes you cant always have everything you want.


What payers would it hurt?

Also deathtouch darts can convert to boss drops, which are tradeable. Not to mention various rewards convert to xp, which often cost gp to get. Just because something isnt tradeable doesnt mean it should be riggable.

Also nice attempt to try and spin the story by saying "You cant have everything you want". A while ago you thought I was the same troll I am trying to say should be punished/stopped from raffle rigging. If I was said troll, I would want the raffle to be riggable. I am saying the rules should be adjusted to avoid raffle rigging because it is the moral thing to do.
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27-Dec-2018 07:49:22

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Draco Burnz said:

I get it you want better chances at rewards, but sometimes you cant always have everything you want.


I know this is an attempt to try and belittle someones argument, although it is a petty way to do so. If you were stabbed on the sidewalk and someone said that to you as a result, I would sympathies with you even though you are trying to do something similar here by deflecting the argument with that statement here. If your opinion is valid/correct, you should be able to show it without these petty put downs.

I am not saying your opinion is invalid, but I am saying that you wont get anywhere with these comments.
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27-Dec-2018 07:52:22 - Last edited on 27-Dec-2018 21:41:29 by Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:
And i agree it would be better to make it all fair hunky dory for everyone. But no method has been presented just whinging about it. That is all. The method presented by whats has failed in all aspects as alreadyvstated. And the amount he igbored it showed that. As he wasnt even willing to attempt to show otherwise. Just just berate me in saying im not wanting an alternative....


If you believe the options presented are ineffective or problematic, thats your opinion which you are entitled to. I disagree (As does someone else here) which is why we say it should be looked into further. I certainly believe putting a cap on how many alt accounts can play will not be problematic if the number iis high enough.

Tenebri said:
Yes dt darts will result in boss drops. The amount is small however. And even so no matter which way it goes it will always be the same amount of boss kills as its limited amount of dt darts. So no matter which way if you were able to make it no alts at all. Or 3k alts for everyone. The amount of kills will always be same. So i dont see any relevence here at all


The argument of "The raffle items arent tradeable" crumbles at this point. Your next alternative is that theres very few DT darts ingame, which is not true and it can bring highly valueable and sought out items ingame. That is why they cost 5m each (or 15m for 3) at the travelling merchants shop. I dont see how that is valueless.
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27-Dec-2018 21:36:41 - Last edited on 27-Dec-2018 23:52:18 by Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:

so either bring something to this or i cba anymore let this thread die like it should have ages ago


I have requested several times that you refrain from posting here, perhaps it is best to take the advice you mentioned and let the thread go. After this time I dont think we will be on agreeing terms, and I don't want people to continue using put downs in this thread.

Tenebri said:
you always seem to make it like you quote yourself... it can be confusing lol


Fixed
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27-Dec-2018 23:56:23

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Alrighty, we want no flaming and name calling etc here :).

I think it is more important to do something that will negatively affect very few accounts then to leave a problem that hurts everyone. If you limit the amount of accounts you can enter the raffle in to 10, then almost all players will have no loss (maybe a few) but the players benefit with more rewards that were intended to be given to them.
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29-Dec-2018 02:21:18

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Draco Burnz said:
Ironman Gup said:
I think it is more important to do something that will negatively affect very few accounts then to leave a problem that hurts everyone. If you limit the amount of accounts you can enter the raffle in to 10, then almost all players will have no loss (maybe a few) but the players benefit with more rewards that were intended to be given to them.


Thats the thing though, the rewards arent meant to be easy to get so by limiting the amount that can enter,
you are doing just that.


Hence why it doesnt make sense to put a cap on this.


I am doing what?

I don't understand what you mean sorry
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29-Dec-2018 12:41:25

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Whatusaytome said:
I didn't misquote you. I didn't even quote you. I actually only rephrased what you said in a way that makes sense.

Btw. Jagex have not said anything regarding the suggested limit, they've only said that his buying membership is fine.

I simply explained why we believe that the account limit being unlimited is a double edged sword. It's fine for the few and brings in money, but it's harmful and unfair to everybody entering on their legitimate accounts.

A limit does not harm anything. Prove me wrong.


Agreed. Draco, you have said that he is misquoting you when all he done was make it easier to understand what you meant. While you can claim I didnt understand you because I didnt read what you said, I read what you said and was perplexed.

Also we are saying the rules should be changed to reflect the immorality of raffle riggers actions. It is why people are no longer allowed to shoot scotish people sailig into the UK despite it being allowed in the past.
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30-Dec-2018 00:58:20

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Draco Burnz said:
Ironman Gup said:
Also we are saying the rules should be changed to reflect the immorality of raffle riggers actions. It is why people are no longer allowed to shoot scotish people sailig into the UK despite it being allowed in the past.


Yet jagex have said there isnt anything wrong, thus no need for any rule changes.


If theres nothing wrong with it, then why have they apparantly made it harder/impossible to raffle rig?
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30-Dec-2018 07:03:35

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Draco Burnz said:
Ironman Gup said:
If theres nothing wrong with it, then why have they apparantly made it harder/impossible to raffle rig?


When have they?


Response:

Draco Burnz said:
Raffles are not going to be rigable this year:

https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/9axibb/raffle_rigging/

https://puu.sh/BlTM2/84b072b6d2.png
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31-Dec-2018 08:52:04

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Draco Burnz said:
Yet ppl can still do it so if anything just made it more annoying.

I mean he still posted his usual thread.


If theres nothing wrong with it, then why have they apparantly made it more annoying or harder to raffle rig?
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01-Jan-2019 02:21:46

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Draco Burnz said:

Yet jagex have said there isnt anything wrong, thus no need for any rule changes.



I am saying that it is wrong. Considering you have stated that he is doing it to annoy others, I think you also agree.

I am saying because of that, the rules should be altered to no longer allow it.

Draco Burnz said:
Yet ppl can still do it so if anything just made it more annoying.

I mean he still posted his usual thread.


Thats only a response as to why he does it, not why he should be allowed to do it.
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01-Jan-2019 04:42:24 - Last edited on 01-Jan-2019 04:46:16 by Ironman Gup

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Draco Burnz said:


Yet like ive said before, jagex seem to think its fine as nothing is hurting the economy and its hard to place this "limit" as it could hurt legit players.


I am providing the argument that it is not okay, and Jagex stating they will not make it riggable is evidence to show they see it as an issue.

Otherwise why did they state things would be done to make it not riggable (Which you have both stated they have and have not done in the past)
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01-Jan-2019 23:35:51

Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:
Ironman Gup said:
Draco Burnz said:


Yet like ive said before, jagex seem to think its fine as nothing is hurting the economy and its hard to place this "limit" as it could hurt legit players.


I am providing the argument that it is not okay, and Jagex stating they will not make it riggable is evidence to show they see it as an issue.



yes rigging it is not okay.

but what you are saying is rigging jagex dont see it that way.


Then what are Jagex stopping?
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03-Jan-2019 08:40:02

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03-Jan-2019 22:23:25

Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:
Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:
Ironman Gup said:
Draco Burnz said:


Yet like ive said before, jagex seem to think its fine as nothing is hurting the economy and its hard to place this "limit" as it could hurt legit players.


I am providing the argument that it is not okay, and Jagex stating they will not make it riggable is evidence to show they see it as an issue.



yes rigging it is not okay.

but what you are saying is rigging jagex dont see it that way.


Then what are Jagex stopping?


again we dont know what every bad stuff happens. the only reason we know of this guy is because hes openly discussed it and posted it. so to me it seems jagex do not see this as rigging. especially as they said its not riggable. :)


We do know what bad stuff is happening with the raffle though, so why turn a blind eye to it?

Action needs to be taken as it should for anything else that is significantly wrong such as raffle rigging.
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04-Jan-2019 06:26:06

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Name it whatever you want, it is still a significant problem.

I have stated in th past I believe there hasn't been punishment in the past as it brings significant revenue inflow in the past. As playrs became more aware and requested action to be taken before the raffle came out this year, Jagex stated they made it harder to rig but stil haven't punished any players for this action.

All they need to do is warn players that if they attempt to abuse it, all their accounts wil have actions taken against them such as a ban.
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

04-Jan-2019 21:50:16

Ironman Gup

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Why not ask Jagex to do a poll it to see if the majority of the community would prefer another method, such as an alt cap?

You can disagree with every opinion stated, but I think the only way to determine if its best is to poll it and see what the whole community thinks.
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06-Jan-2019 00:00:41 - Last edited on 06-Jan-2019 00:22:17 by Ironman Gup

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Draco Burnz said:
Ironman Gup said:
Why not ask Jagex to do a poll it to see if the majority of the community would prefer another method, such as an alt cap?

You can disagree with every opinion stated, but I think the only way to determine if its best is to poll it and see what the whole community thinks.


Considering this whole thing is your idea, why not you ask them?


Most of the community is unhappy with raffle rigging. If you truly believe there is no option to make raffle rigging better, why not poll it with the community?
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06-Jan-2019 02:35:01

Ironman Gup

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Draco Burnz said:
Ironman Gup said:
Most of the community is unhappy with raffle rigging. If you truly believe there is no option to make raffle rigging better, why not poll it with the community?


Un not really.

Where do you get this info that most are upset about this?

From what ive seen on reddit and what not, most have seem to come to an acceptance of it as theres nothing that can be done w/o hurting legit players.

You still seem to be the lonely person that wants this in place.

Plus once again, your idea so you ask them.


If you went on reddit around September then you would know that everyone was against raffle rigging.

It is a reason why J-mods stated they will make it non-riggable. Poeple didnt want raffle rigging and I know you've seen the reddit threads as you have posted the links to complaining posts in the past
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06-Jan-2019 03:48:20

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Tenebri said:

we have said this billion times now. what you call raffle rigging may not be the same as what someone else calls raffle rigging. which is why saying everyone is against raffle rigging is correct. but when it comes down to detailed explanation of what it is you dislike the numbers will change


If you disagree with the wording then please just move on and dont use it yourself. I will continue to use it as Whatyousaytome has stated the definition which matches the actions of some.

Tenebri said:

also how are they even going to implement an alt cap? its great saying "lets do this" when this is impossible to do. there would many ways to get around this alt cap


If players are caught doing it, simple. Ban any account they use to raffle rig or play on.

Tenebri said:

imo just stop this raffle i dont think people would care if september came around it was replaced with something else.


That's another alternative, althoguh they should maybe make it possible to get the cosmetics elsewhere.
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06-Jan-2019 10:18:45 - Last edited on 06-Jan-2019 10:27:46 by Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:
Whatusaytome said:
You just don't want anybody else to have a way to earn higher odds for themselves, on the accounts they want.

I'm still waiting to hear how this access to 10 tickets instead of 2 is lowering their chances, but a single person with 6k isnt.


who said there was a limit of 10 tickets? either way im not

there are going to be people able to gain more tickets than others. again i say read above its explained there. if you fail to understand simple maths. this isnt a maths lesson im not your teacher.


Ironman Gup said:
We could look at keeping the ticket cap at 2 but to ban raffle riggers?


you mean people who use alts? thats not rigging it

so how do you go about banning people who use alts? is it done via ip? done via reporting them? how is this going to work?


I dont mean people using their 1 or 2 alt accounts. I mean Raffle Riggers who use hundreds or thousands of accounts with the intention of diluting the reward pool that others can win from.

Since Jagex have aid they have a way to make it harder to raffle rig, you can ask how they currently track raffle riggers. Considering one of them has made a video with their usernames public, a good start woud he to remove all them.
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06-Jan-2019 23:13:31

Ironman Gup

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Another definition of Rigging: The act of arranging dishonestly for the result of something, for example an election, to be changed.

Some players have been deliberately bypassing the 2 ticket rule in a dishonest fashion to rig the raffle in their favour. I am not talking about the average person who has 1 or 2 alt accounts, but the people with hundreds or more. I (and many others) see it as Raffle Rigging and I ask you stop trying to correct people who state it isn't. At this point it is becoming disruptive and I am concerned it may be going off-topic.

If you disagree with the term "Raffle Rigging" then I do not expect you to use it. But I have given definitions and others have agreed on that definition, so leave it be.
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

06-Jan-2019 23:16:28 - Last edited on 06-Jan-2019 23:18:40 by Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:

so why hasnt this person already been banned? it seems jagex are fine with it.(like we have said countless times) if so why are we having this conversation.


I am saying the rules should be reviewed. If Jagex believes Raffle RIgging should be stopped (Which they stated they have done so) then they should also punish people attempting to break this.

Tenebri said:

but hell if jagex are saying they are working on getting rid of people who do what you are talking about. then again why are we having this discussion? it seems you have what you want they are doing something about it? no?


Because we are saying more should be done against raffle riggers and their accounts. Another issue is while we have been told raffle rigging has been stopped, there is no evidence of any action being done and no statements on how it was stopped.
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07-Jan-2019 11:30:46

Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:

awesome well i think everything that can be said has been said. we shall wait till september or when next raffle is


Sounds good. I will continue to try and get Jagex to look into this as I believe we need to fix the problem before September.

I will (maybe) see you in August/September :)
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07-Jan-2019 23:51:54 - Last edited on 07-Jan-2019 23:52:01 by Ironman Gup

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Draco Burnz said:
Ironman Gup said:
Sounds good. I will continue to try and get Jagex to look into this as I believe we need to fix the problem before September.


Considering theres nothing to "fix" here.

I mean if ppl really wanted to they would rig the raffle even if jagex tried setting up a fool proof plan.


And if that happens we should be punishing the raffle riggers. A perma-ban would be a good deterrent for example.
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03-Feb-2019 20:01:43 - Last edited on 03-Feb-2019 20:02:19 by Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:

and there are no raffle riggers so is hunky dory :L


A few days ago on reddit, the most well known raffle rigger posted an idea unrelated to the raffle. Most of the comments were about this persons raffle rigging actions in the past as well as rigging other events. The word 'rig' was used on numerous occasions.

Tenebri said:

been almost a month with this being bumped to front page 100% time. no one commented. it seems no one cares... if they did theyd post here to support this


There are 2 problems with this idea. The first one is forums are rarely used. The second one is this topic is popular to discuss around the raffle time of year, not 6 months after the raffle. More people will come as the raffle is closer.
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04-Feb-2019 10:03:26

Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:
Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:

and there are no raffle riggers so is hunky dory :L


A few days ago on reddit, the most well known raffle rigger posted an idea unrelated to the raffle. Most of the comments were about this persons raffle rigging actions in the past as well as rigging other events. The word 'rig' was used on numerous occasions.

Tenebri said:

been almost a month with this being bumped to front page 100% time. no one commented. it seems no one cares... if they did theyd post here to support this


There are 2 problems with this idea. The first one is forums are rarely used. The second one is this topic is popular to discuss around the raffle time of year, not 6 months after the raffle. More people will come as the raffle is closer.


All that shows is people think he rigs the raffle. Not that he actually does. Peoples opinion means fuck all. As stated rigging would be determined by the owner of said raffle aka jagex. All youve demonstrated is confirmation bias fallacy.

Im going to do what you usually do and go completely off topic with an over the top analogy for shits n giggles

Hitler was wrong we can agree on that. However there are forums out there agreeing with him. With your own logivlc of oh my god people posted on a forum or discussion thread saying he wasnt wrong. Means he wasnt in the wrong. See how confirmation bias works now?

Asked numerous times how its rigging and you never delivered at all. So still isnt rigging

As stated see what happens next raffle. Till then see no need for this thread


1) Majority of people dont think Hitler was right. Equally, most people dont support raffle rigging that has happened in the past.

2) I have delivered by stating the definition of rigging many times. You just don't agree with it
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04-Feb-2019 12:10:04

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Jamzi said:
Not sure what the problem is here. So there are a few people who have thousands of accounts, and he enters the raffle with all of them. So he would end up with an item on a random account.......... so what?

Sure it might mean I have a slightly less chance of getting an item, but who cares...?

If a person is happy with random items on random accounts... LOL, so be it :P


One of the main problems is the person isnt even keeping the items, he destroys them. It shows the sole intention of his actions is to troll others by raffle rigging to dilute the reward pool for others.
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04-Feb-2019 12:51:44 - Last edited on 04-Feb-2019 12:51:55 by Ironman Gup

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Agree to disagree then. We can both keep having confirmation bias and populum fallacy or we can move on from our differences.

As I have asked before, if you disagree with the term 'raffle rigging' then you do not have to use it yourself. Equally, I ask that you do not tell others to stop using it if they wish to do so.

You have said this forum thread will achieve nothing (i.e. get no support etc). If that is the case, you are best to ignore it as nothing will come out of it.
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04-Feb-2019 22:16:55

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Tenebri said:

im happy to post where ever even if i think it wont do anything. you cant silence me that easily :)


Despite saying in the past that you wouldn't post here, you are welcome to post here. I just ask that you stop asking people to not use the term 'raffle rigging' as there are more important things to discuss about the issue
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06-Feb-2019 01:19:35

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Tenebri said:

isnt that the discussion though. and to have a discussion we need to use terms we both accept mean same thing.


Keep the discussion about Balthazar's Big Raffle and people using alternate accounts to intentionally dilute the reward pool for others. I don't care whether you use the term 'raffle rigging' or not, the discussion is to focus around the raffle and the people who are using alternate accounts to win more rewards whilst simultaneously diluting the reward pool.

I have asked several times that you focus on this rather than what words people can and cannot use. If you do not want to be part of the discussion because of peoples wordings then you are entitled to do so. If you want to be part of this discussion you are also free to do so, but I continue to ask that you do not go off-topic by halting the discussion every time someone says 'raffle rigging'.

I see it as raffle rigging and I see it as a problem. You may disagree and thats fine, but focus on arguing why 'using alternate accounts to intentionally dilute the reward pool for others' is acceptable rather than the specific wording others use.
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09-Feb-2019 00:21:01 - Last edited on 09-Feb-2019 00:22:24 by Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:
Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:

isnt that the discussion though. and to have a discussion we need to use terms we both accept mean same thing.


I see it as raffle rigging and I see it as a problem. You may disagree and thats fine, but focus on arguing why 'using alternate accounts to intentionally dilute the reward pool for others' is acceptable rather than the specific wording others use.


It wasnt off topic its discussing termonology used. Very important in a discussion youvr made a claim "its raffle rigging" ive asked for clarification on this. All you do is post meaning of rigging. Which doesnt prove anything to this subject just meaning to rigging. So until you prove this claim you have made. I will always respond its not rigging as it hasnt met burden of proof yet otherwise.

Yes we are all aware you see it as raffle rigging. But who cares. You dont care that i dont see it as raffle rigging. You are triggered over this and i find it amusing you cant give reasonable logical arguments. Its always crying over your own feelingss that you see it as bad.


Ok then
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12-Feb-2019 08:43:18

Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:
Ironman Gup said:
I noticed on reddit one of the main perpetrators of raffle rigging didn't want deathtouch darts on TH.

I guess he was worried he couldnt dilute the reward pool for that lmao


I agree witg them dt darts shouldnt be on th. I dont think its about the "reward pool" when dt darts are obtainable else where anyway.... youve shot an arrow and painted the target afterwards


Using your logic, why shouldnt't DT darts be obtainable on TH? They are untradeable and obtainable via Travelling Merchant or raffle.

I think them being on Th is more ethical as everyone has the same chance of winning, and 1 person cant rig it to improve their chances whilst simultaneously lowering the chance of others.
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13-Feb-2019 05:46:40

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Tenebri said:

everyone has same chance of winning in raffle with your logic too then. more people could buy more keys (like using more accounts for raffle) except with them being on th it will effect one account to be able to get 0kc pets and titles. which is rare to happen with them being in raffle



The problem I have is when you rig the raffle, you lower others chances of winning prizes. This doesnt happen with TH.

That is why I have asked in the past for a fixed chance of winning regardless of participants. You have been against that idea.
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16-Feb-2019 09:41:41

Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:
Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:

everyone has same chance of winning in raffle with your logic too then. more people could buy more keys (like using more accounts for raffle) except with them being on th it will effect one account to be able to get 0kc pets and titles. which is rare to happen with them being in raffle



The problem I have is when you rig the raffle, you lower others chances of winning prizes. This doesnt happen with TH.

That is why I have asked in the past for a fixed chance of winning regardless of participants. You have been against that idea.


Then its just another form of th


And?

You can increase the odds of winning your prize by using more tickets on a specific prize. There will also be no side effect of raffle riggers intentionally diluting the reward pool for others.
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17-Feb-2019 02:43:17

Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:

you are creating a villian over curiosity. when the account you talk about does it for a lot of things in regards to th also when there is no reward pool.

i thought you said he didnt like this


He done it for money. This helps funds membership so they can do stuff such as raffle rigging.

Flaref 0x said:
I spent around 3 hours during every day of the promotion (not the last day) looting so I think it's a decent amount of GP to get with 15 hours invested into it. .


Flaref 0x said:
It's a really good time of the year to be making bank off these promotions. The twitch promotion is pretty rewarding and I made around 2b off the Crystal Capsule promo in like, 15 hours.
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18-Feb-2019 08:39:22 - Last edited on 18-Feb-2019 09:25:20 by Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:

you keep accusing these "riggers" by diluting pool on purpose. so no one else can have them and it amuses me you care so much about these "riggers" and these items. to have so much hate. i wouldnt say they do it to dilute the reward pool. and they sit ther elike "mwuahaahahahaha these pesky scapers cant get these golden outfits. they ALL MINE MINE I TELLS YOU!!!"


They have made videos of them destroying golden barrows sets back when they were not claimable. They were trying to win them with the sole intention of diluting the reward pool for others
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18-Feb-2019 08:40:35

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Tenebri said:


again i said you have fired an arrow and painted the target afterwards. meaning n matter what you see youll make it fit this bias. and its now to such extent its tempting to go say seek help




If you have genuine concerns about someones mental health, you would be better advising Jagex than trolling them or arguing with them on forums.

If you dont have those concerns, you shouldn't joke about it.
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18-Feb-2019 10:51:24

Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:
Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:


again i said you have fired an arrow and painted the target afterwards. meaning n matter what you see youll make it fit this bias. and its now to such extent its tempting to go say seek help




If you have genuine concerns about someones mental health, you would be better advising Jagex than trolling them or arguing with them on forums.

If you dont have those concerns, you shouldn't joke about it.


im not making jokes. i do lighten the seriousness with humour though.

but this is off topic.

my last post stands though. bye just wanted to clarify


If you think mental illness is a joking matter then you are better not to post here. You are making a joke out of it when you are saying negative things about mental illness and directing it at someone else who doesnt want it.

It is not warranted, all this thread is about is that raffle riggers deserve to be punished ingame.
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23-Feb-2019 00:41:08

Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:

and you have yet shown how these people are rigging. as stated before all youve done is say they are and show a dictionary definition. you havent given any reason as to why they should be banned. weve been over this for 45 pages and nothing changes

it falls down to this your own obsession / opinion


In part because it is a form of trolling players?

They are intentionally ruining an event for other legitimate players wishing to particiate for a chance of receiving something they want. Remember the same troll also has placed hundreds of bank boxes around tavenly so people cannot walk around. Do you want that as part of your gameplay?
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23-Feb-2019 11:37:47 - Last edited on 23-Feb-2019 11:40:10 by Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:
Ironman Gup said:

In part because it is a form of trolling players?

They are intentionally ruining an event for other legitimate players


you have not once proven or shown they are doing with intent of ruining for other players

as said they arent there going "muahahaha pesky scapers wont get these golden items they are mine!!!!!"

where is your proof they are doing it for this reason? if you can prove that then sure ban them. as ive said before. but you cant you just keep saying they are doing it for this reason. with out anything.


That is because you state that all proof shown against raffle riggers is invalid.
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25-Feb-2019 05:45:19 - Last edited on 25-Feb-2019 06:18:22 by Ironman Gup

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Ironman Gup said:

You have not once proven or shown they are doing with intent of ruining for other players

as said they arent there going "muahahaha pesky scapers wont get these golden items they are mine!!!!!"


Here are some examples of proof the most famous raffle rigger intended on ruining the raffle for other players:


Example 1

Player A: i love how you are pissing people off with this, eventho its not against the ToS

Raffle Rigger: Yep, that's the fun in it


Example 2

Player A: I don't really care for the raffle and such but i do really wonder why you would go through the effort to make so many accounts knowing you will destroy all rewards either way? Either way its pretty funny to see that everybody gets so mad lol

Raffle Rigger: That's why I destroyed them lol.


Example 3

Player A: People who gain enjoyment and satisfaction from the upset of others are pretty disgusting tbh.

Raffle Rigger: :)


Example 4

Player A: so because you peopel did this s--- other people had even less of a chance to win something - which by the way i didnt win anything.... thank you ... -_-

Raffle Rigger: lol




Tenebri said:

where is your proof they are doing it for this reason? if you can prove that then sure ban them. as ive said before. but you cant you just keep saying they are doing it for this reason. with out anything.


After those statements by the most famous raffle rigger, you will likely continue to say there was no intention. However the rest of the community knows their intention and they should be banned (as you have requested).
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25-Feb-2019 06:15:26 - Last edited on 25-Feb-2019 06:22:39 by Ironman Gup

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I will also use my foresight to disprove another argument that will likely use right due to my previous comment:

Likely comment: You said everyone hate raffle rigging, yet those comments you have posted indicate people like raffle rigging

Answer to that comment: A vast majority of people disliked their video, it has over 75% dislikes.
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25-Feb-2019 06:47:10

Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:

again youve made huge assumption and added the bias that the person doing it is already guilty. by adding the name "raffle rigger"

all youve done further is show how closed minded you have become to this.


They have done the act.

Tenebri said:
hypothetical examples is not evidence for what you are fighting for. the fact you went and put this much effort in it shows this is the best you have? seriously? with the accusation you have made, this is the best? it holds no relevance to what is going on now in this reality. as examples arent our realilty


They are not hypothetical examples, they are actual posts from the most infamous raffle rigger.



As for the other accusations which you have posted, they will not be tolerated here. I do not rig the raffle and highly discourage anyone to. Given this isnt the only time you have done stints like this, I ask you stop posting on this thread.

You state that I make up evidence to this issue and try to insinuate that I am the person causing those problems. It is highly offensive, and given you believe mental illness is at play you should be ashamed of yourself for sinking so low.
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26-Feb-2019 04:36:29 - Last edited on 26-Feb-2019 04:36:42 by Ironman Gup

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Your outright refusal to the evidence provided shows a massive amount of ignorance on your end too.

This is the reason there are flat earthers and anti vaxxers. They say there is no evidence and dismiss any evidence, no matter how strong it is.

I understand you are 100% set in your ways. Lets just disagree on how what punishment should be brought to raffle riggers and move on. I will continue to post here and if you really support raffle rigging you should make your own separate thread
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26-Feb-2019 07:04:11

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Tenebri said:

youve given examples as to what you think a raffle rigger reaction is to people. which doesnt get you any closer to showing how the person you are talking about intention to the raffle


I will clarify, they were not what i 'think' a raffle riggers reactions will be. These are actual quotes of what the most infamous raffle rigger has said when responding to the public

Source: https://youtu.be/U2K34sGwQuo
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26-Feb-2019 07:11:56 - Last edited on 26-Feb-2019 07:23:08 by Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:

I wasnt actually making that accusation that you are rigging. You cant be this stupid.... i was using it as an example to show that your examples get you nowhwere closer to showing he is a rigger... if i can do the same saying you are one.... this just shows how obsessed you are with this. Unbelievable


The quotes I provided are real examples of what the raffle rigger said. You made it up and were implying that I was a raffle rigger.

If I rang all your family members and asked them if you had intercourse with a minor, you would have a massive problem with that as I planted the idea in their head that it is happening. By asking that, I also imply that I know something the public doesn't. Thats why your example was outright dangerous.

We know that people rig the raffle with the sole or main intention to dilute the reward pool for others, as per the quotes I found from the most infamous raffle rigger. I am showing the public what they have said in regards to it, so they can be made aware and so Jagex can review the rules to no logner allow raffle rigging.
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27-Feb-2019 04:43:59

Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:

... ive already explained this. i wasnt accusing you of being the rigger... i was using it as an example to show how your examples get you nowhere closer to
i asked you to show how this person is raffle rigging. you gave me examples that got nowhere closer


The examples showed his intent. The fact is someone is making thousands of alternate accounts, and stating publically they do it for enjoyment due to the fact that others are upset by it.

Those are the facts, there is no denying that. If you think there is a part that is wrong in that statement, highlight it.

I am saying someone who is doing that should be punished for trolling the community. Individuals such as that one abuse an event and laugh about the damage it does towards other players.

You keep saying there's no proof of anything when we both know there is.
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

27-Feb-2019 23:48:46

Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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"The fact is someone is making thousands of alternate accounts, and stating publically they do it for enjoyment due to the fact that others are upset by it."

Can you tell me what part of that quote you disagree with?
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

01-Mar-2019 10:31:06

Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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Konota said:
Ironman Gup said:
"The fact is someone is making thousands of alternate accounts, and stating publically they do it for enjoyment due to the fact that others are upset by it."

Can you tell me what part of that quote you disagree with?

Because he/she is allowed to do & everyone else.
draco: lyfes nof fair.

You'd probably be better of focusing on how to prevent that from happening.
Tho, I am fine with how it is right now.


My main way to prevent it from happening is to no longer allow TH Rigging, where someone makes billions within hours of using many alternate accounts while there is a promotion.

The 2nd main way to prevent it is to no longer allow it, and ban all accounts (Main and alternate) associated with the raffle rigging.
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

01-Mar-2019 20:41:57

Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:
Miu said:
Or we could just remove the raffle


i dont mind this.

no skin off my nose


I think this would be fine also. I'm concerned Jagex will allow the old habits to remain though to get more membership revenue from the raffle though. Hence why I doubt they will remove the raffle and why I fight for us to limit the ability for people to abuse it
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

04-Mar-2019 08:01:25 - Last edited on 04-Mar-2019 08:02:49 by Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:
Ironman Gup said:
limit the ability for people to abuse it


it hasnt happened yet

but we've discussed this already, just pointing it out


We have?

In past raffles, people are abusing it by raffle rigging with thousands of accounts with the intention of diluting the reward pool and upsetting people.
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

05-Mar-2019 06:22:46

Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:

its just someone using more alts than anyone else. so fucking what


So we should limit the amount of alts an individual person can use so legitimate players can benefit from the rewards.

It is a disgrace when a troll goes around deliberately upsetting others by diluting the reward pool, and it should be stopped. I have given many examples that it is raffle rigging and you deliberately ignore the evidence like an anti-vaccer ignores real scientific evidence that vaccines don't cause autism to get your way.
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

08-Mar-2019 20:38:51 - Last edited on 08-Mar-2019 20:39:12 by Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:
Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:

its just someone using more alts than anyone else. so fucking what


So we should limit the amount of alts an individual person can use so legitimate players can benefit from the rewards.

It is a disgrace when a troll goes around deliberately upsetting others by diluting the reward pool, and it should be stopped. I have given many examples that it is raffle rigging and you deliberately ignore the evidence like an anti-vaccer ignores real scientific evidence that vaccines don't cause autism to get your way.


so many accusations so little evidence


Given your past and present trolling, any statements like this will just be regarded.

Action should be taken against raffle riggers. Some people may disagree and they should state why they disagree, but by acting as if there is no problem at all there will be no progress made.
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

09-Mar-2019 03:00:20

Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:
Ironman Gup said:
Action should be taken against raffle riggers


i agree. but so far no one has been shown to be a raffle rigger. just accusation of one. innocent until proven guilty

Ironman Gup said:
Given your past and present trolling,


how is this trolling? its a valid statement on the topic


Making thousands of alternate accoutns with the sole intention to dilute the reward pool is abusing the system. We know for a fact it is happening, and instead of pretending it doesnt exist you should make an argument why it should be allowed.
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

12-Mar-2019 06:26:10

Ironman Gup

Ironman Gup

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Tenebri said:
Whatusaytome said:
I was bored and decided to come back and look around.. and I saw this was still going. After reading like a few pages, I see the same arguments from both sides that we used before I left, rewritten and rephrased dozens of times.. getting nowhere.


i agree


I also agree


Whatusaytome said:

Maybe the event could simply have a few more prizes per day? Can they prevent duplicate wins? unless yours is lost, do they do that already? Maybe add set upgrades to the mix of prizes available if you own that set already?

Maybe even bring the options for earning more tickets for individuals to slightly raise a person's Main's.chances of winning. Maybe an unlimited semi difficult randomized side quest or something?


I like the idea of main accounts having a better chance. I think the rewards should have a set chance of being won so people cant dilute the reward pool and more people have a fair chance to win. Maybe we could also let them earn more tickets as you said so they can increase those odds further?


I'm also glad to see you back, and hope you are doing well :)
Don't stand up for whats allowed, stand up for whats right.

13-Mar-2019 09:14:26 - Last edited on 13-Mar-2019 09:15:36 by Ironman Gup

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