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Raffle being lazy

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Tenebri

Tenebri

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Miu said:

Disruptive behavior?
Using alts to exploit game mechanics? Both against the rules, both very subjective, but very possible for "raffle-rigging" to fall under.

I think the easier solution is just to not hold raffles in the first place. Especially ones where there are a limited number of prizes, encouraging alt abuse.


IIRC. theres no mention of using alts to exploit game mechanics. what the rule is is exploiting game mechanics to enhance one account like stealing creations.

just to clarify im not 100%, but if the only effected accounts are individually the alts, then theres no rule break.

even though i dont condone doing this. i think that is the rule

ill also ask where would you draw the line? 1 account obviously fine, 1000 accounts is a no. is 1 main 1 alt okay? 500 not? which number is the limit? out of curiousity
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25-May-2018 22:42:56

Tenebri

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"Similarly, multi-logged accounts must not interact with each other to exploit gameplay mechanics, such as attempting to rig the result of a minigame.

The rule here would be multiple accounts interacting eachother to exploit gameplay mechanics. Technically they're not interacting with eachother, but they are interacting with the same piece of content, influencing its result. It's grey."

they arent interacting with each other though, they are interacting with the same npc. but thats how you enter the raffle.

i used stealing creations before as that would be rigging it. castle wars easier to use as an example, one on zammy one on sara, the alt on sara takes zammy flag and doesnt score with it. rigging the game against rules...

this isnt the case for this, they are all individually involved in the raffle. the only things thats effected with huge number of alts doing it. is obviously chance of getting the said winning prize. but then thats also said with 2 accounts, youve increased chance by double.
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25-May-2018 23:12:44

Tenebri

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Miu said:
Tenebri said:
ill also ask where would you draw the line? 1 account obviously fine, 1000 accounts is a no. is 1 main 1 alt okay? 500 not? which number is the limit? out of curiousity


no need to draw any lines if you just don't implement the raffle :)

Or fix it so it can't be rigged.

Stop giving free handouts to encourage alts, simple enough.


that didnt answer my question but okay, ill rephrase

i have one alt i use, i also enter said raffle. am i abusing it?
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25-May-2018 23:13:31

Tenebri

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Miu said:
Tenebri said:
Miu said:
Tenebri said:
ill also ask where would you draw the line? 1 account obviously fine, 1000 accounts is a no. is 1 main 1 alt okay? 500 not? which number is the limit? out of curiousity


no need to draw any lines if you just don't implement the raffle :)

Or fix it so it can't be rigged.

Stop giving free handouts to encourage alts, simple enough.


that didnt answer my question but okay, ill rephrase

i have one alt i use, i also enter said raffle. am i abusing it?


Yes I'd consider it abuse. No I wouldn't consider it worth penalizing you for. It would be better to prevent it in the first place.


even though i just play both accounts individually? like ive had 2 save files on a console?

even though the winnings effects literally only one account?
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25-May-2018 23:37:29

Tenebri

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Miu said:
Tenebri said:
Miu said:
Tenebri said:
Miu said:
Tenebri said:
ill also ask where would you draw the line? 1 account obviously fine, 1000 accounts is a no. is 1 main 1 alt okay? 500 not? which number is the limit? out of curiousity


no need to draw any lines if you just don't implement the raffle :)

Or fix it so it can't be rigged.

Stop giving free handouts to encourage alts, simple enough.


that didnt answer my question but okay, ill rephrase

i have one alt i use, i also enter said raffle. am i abusing it?


Yes I'd consider it abuse. No I wouldn't consider it worth penalizing you for. It would be better to prevent it in the first place.


even though i just play both accounts individually? like ive had 2 save files on a console?

even though the winnings effects literally only one account?


The winnings may only affect one account, but the chances impact everyone. Therein lies the issue with the raffle. You're focusing on whether it's "abuse" or not and not on potential solutions.

If the raffle was done with fixed chances, then you could do as many alts as you like, but none of those alts would negatively impact anyone else.


i see what you mean, so the guy with 2k alts, still would be able to do what he did. but it be fine as it wouldnt of changed anyone elses winnings? as its a set amount of people/accounts winning?

with the way it is now, i still wouldnt consider it cheating / abuse. as the game is intended that way.
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25-May-2018 23:48:56 - Last edited on 25-May-2018 23:50:27 by Tenebri

Tenebri

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Miu said:
Tenebri said:
Miu said:
The winnings may only affect one account, but the chances impact everyone. Therein lies the issue with the raffle. You're focusing on whether it's "abuse" or not and not on potential solutions.

If the raffle was done with fixed chances, then you could do as many alts as you like, but none of those alts would negatively impact anyone else.


i see what you mean, so the guy with 2k alts, still would be able to do what he did. but it be fine as it wouldnt of changed anyone elses winnings? as its a set amount of people/accounts winning?


Yeah, that's what I've been getting at.


just wanted to make sure i understood where you stand on the "issue" im still going to use my alt on raffle (just the one dont worry). as the chance of the raffle is for individual accounts not people behind them.
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25-May-2018 23:53:03

Tenebri

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Draco Burnz said:
Tenebri said:
just wanted to make sure i understood where you stand on the "issue" im still going to use my alt on raffle (just the one dont worry). as the chance of the raffle is for individual accounts not people behind them.


Dont see why it matter how many you use as nothing will ever happen.


indeed
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26-May-2018 00:03:21

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Draco Burnz said:
Raffles are not going to be rigable this year:

https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/9axibb/raffle_rigging/

https://puu.sh/BlTM2/84b072b6d2.png


Good stuff!

All I'm waiting for now is confirmation that players who attempt to bypass these changes get banned


how would one know if anyone was?

i have 2 accounts this one and my alt. would i be bypassing it if i used both? not the 2k alts others have
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29-Aug-2018 09:35:41

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Draco Burnz said:
Ironman Gup said:


Dont see what either of those have to do with the topic but ok.


Because Joris wants no restrictions on the raffle so he can troll and upset others?

I'm saying theres reasons why you put restrictions in place to avoid that, otherwise we wouldnt care when 9/11 or rape happens


you just went from 0 - 100 very quickly
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14-Oct-2018 09:35:00

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
I also think my low number of bumps also shows that a fox cares more about the raffle than i do


aye but hes not responding


Ironman Gup said:
CoolBeans568 said:
Tenebri said:
considering this isnt even "existing content" anymore as its a temporary one that comes once a year why bump it?


Can think of multiple reasons why but thats not the point in this thread.


Since the current system still encourages raffle rigging, as players dont get their accts banned for it


you use word rigging which is fine. but when the owner of said raffle doesnt see it that way.

maybe its time to move on

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22-Oct-2018 09:58:58

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:

you use word rigging which is fine. but when the owner of said raffle doesnt see it that way.

maybe its time to move on


Just because he says it isnt rigging doesnt mean it isnt.
Otherwise people could say shooting someone in the head isnt murder lol


youve completely taken that out of context. and i think purposely

let me rephrase for you poppet.


the owner of said raffle doesnt give a flying %$£& about the riggers. so why on earth do you think they care about your whining about it?

because they dont see anything wrong with it. infact they think sweeeeeeet look at all these tickets being bought. it must be a hit

that make more sense treacle?

so please refrain from twisting things it just means ill treat you like a child.
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25-Oct-2018 19:47:49 - Last edited on 25-Oct-2018 19:50:56 by Tenebri

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:

let me rephrase for you poppet.


the owner of said raffle doesnt give a flying %$£& about the riggers. so why on earth do you think they care about your whining about it?

because they dont see anything wrong with it. infact they think sweeeeeeet look at all these tickets being bought. it must be a hit

that make more sense treacle?

so please refrain from twisting things it just means ill treat you like a child.


Are you looking from Jagex's point of view? If so, couldnt I say high meth sales means its a hit?

As with Fox or Jagex not having a problem with rigging, Jagex was ignoring it for the profit and the Fox knows what he is doing. Otherwise people can make excuses for what we see as unthinkable acts.

Remember 9/11 happened because of peoples religious beliefs.1



I also noticed that you are trying to troll by treating me as a child. I ask that you refrain from doing that if you wish to post on this thread.


you can say meth sales are a hit yes. cause well it is in high demand with a high price, and has a huge income.


yes 9/11 did happen because of religion. i dont see what that has to do here? its not about beliefs....


fine ill try once more for your brain to try understand.

you go to a pool party
you dislike that people can pee in a pool
the owner of said house of pool party. says he doesnt care.
does you complaining about it do anything?
the pool party is now over.
you still constantly talk about 1 person peeing in the pool.
is the owner now going to do something about it even though its now finished?


i lolled at "unthinkable" acts.... you honestly think what he did was unthinkably immoral?

rofl thats actually hilarious
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26-Oct-2018 21:37:28 - Last edited on 26-Oct-2018 21:38:59 by Tenebri

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04-Nov-2018 00:17:32

Tenebri

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Draco Burnz said:
Tenebri said:
you can say meth sales are a hit yes. cause well it is in high demand with a high price, and has a huge income.


yes 9/11 did happen because of religion. i dont see what that has to do here? its not about beliefs....


fine ill try once more for your brain to try understand.

you go to a pool party
you dislike that people can pee in a pool
the owner of said house of pool party. says he doesnt care.
does you complaining about it do anything?
the pool party is now over.
you still constantly talk about 1 person peeing in the pool.
is the owner now going to do something about it even though its now finished?


i lolled at "unthinkable" acts.... you honestly think what he did was unthinkably immoral?

rofl thats actually hilarious


Have to agree here
.


You
have always just came here to disagree
lol but w/e. I have explained why I think that argument doesn't hold up.

Welcome back on ur main btw.


you did try and explain yes. but it failed so keep going
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06-Nov-2018 07:58:58

Tenebri

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:
Draco Burnz said:
Tenebri said:
you did try and explain yes. but it failed so keep going


Agreed.

So far everything hes said has been debunked.
.


or is just an opinion that holds
no
validity on doing something.


@ Draco, if it can be debunked then it must be an objective issue. I think it is not helping anyones case when you try to dismiss someones argument on a subjective matter with a 'I'm right, you're wrong'. Otherwise you get people like Kim Jong Un in charge.

@ Tenebri, I dont completely understand that but your response is sorry



made a typo in it changed it in quote
and it just means your ideas on this are just opinion. and thats all you post is the opinion not anything to back up a change for it.
like you say with mine
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16-Nov-2018 08:39:41

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Whatusaytome said:
Tren said:


Ironman Gup said:
To get things back on topic, I think a bit mroe was done this year to improve the integrity of the raffle but still more needs to be done to improve it for the future
Whether or not anybody disagrees with Iron, he is right with his opinion stating the raffle needs more done to have any Integrity at all, since one player is allowed to buy more rights than everybody else.

Tenebri, Draco. It doesn't matter if you disagree. I have heard you both claim that him being allowed to do what he does is annoying. So just stop defending him.

When "rights" get abused, or have that chance to be, regulations to balance those rights get set. This is not unusual and it doesn't stop anybody from using their REAL alts. It regulates alt use to be fair and prevents thousands of throwaway accounts from rigging the events.

Whether you disagree with fairness in general, or you disagree with us. You aren't helping anybody other than this one person by defending "what he is allowed to do now" without thinking a change can be made for the greater good of future events.


Agreed. We need to really improve the integrity of the raffle


no we dont
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16-Nov-2018 08:40:23

Tenebri

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:
Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:
Draco Burnz said:
Tenebri said:
you did try and explain yes. but it failed so keep going


Agreed.

So far everything hes said has been debunked.
.


or is just an opinion that holds
no
validity on doing something.


@ Draco, if it can be debunked then it must be an objective issue. I think it is not helping anyones case when you try to dismiss someones argument on a subjective matter with a 'I'm right, you're wrong'. Otherwise you get people like Kim Jong Un in charge.

@ Tenebri, I dont completely understand that but your response is sorry



made a typo in it changed it in quote
and it just means your ideas on this are just opinion. and thats all you post is the opinion not anything to back up a change for it.
like you say with mine


It is all opinion, btoh your side and mine.

I think there does need to be a change as there was with gambling back in the day. Remember when gambling was within the rules of the game but done massive harm to the game? The rules were changed to no longer allow it. I believe the same should be done to the raffle rigging


yes i do, player run games of chance.

this is completely different matter literally completely different
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17-Nov-2018 10:47:40

Tenebri

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:
Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:
Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:
Draco Burnz said:
Tenebri said:
you did try and explain yes. but it failed so keep going


Agreed.

So far everything hes said has been debunked.
.


or is just an opinion that holds
no
validity on doing something.


@ Draco, if it can be debunked then it must be an objective issue. I think it is not helping anyones case when you try to dismiss someones argument on a subjective matter with a 'I'm right, you're wrong'. Otherwise you get people like Kim Jong Un in charge.

@ Tenebri, I dont completely understand that but your response is sorry



made a typo in it changed it in quote
and it just means your ideas on this are just opinion. and thats all you post is the opinion not anything to back up a change for it.
like you say with mine


It is all opinion, btoh your side and mine.

I think there does need to be a change as there was with gambling back in the day. Remember when gambling was within the rules of the game but done massive harm to the game? The rules were changed to no longer allow it. I believe the same should be done to the raffle rigging


yes i do, player run games of chance.

this is completely different matter literally completely different


I'm not saying anybody raffle rigging is breaking the player game of chance rule, im saying rules need to be added to include avoiding raffle rigging. The easiest way is to cover this in minigame manipulation


no they dont
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18-Nov-2018 09:35:23

Tenebri

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
@ Tenebri

The same could be said about gambling then, it could have been left ingame and be allowed by players.

It was banned to improve the integrity of the game, and the same should be done for raffle rigging


no not at all the player run game of chance was destroying the game. rwt scamming etc
this one raffle that lasts a month that only effects the one account as they rewards cant be traded over.... is not the same at all

not only that but with gambling laws jagex have to abide by with this raffle its not the same.


you really are grasping at straws arent you
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18-Nov-2018 11:20:59 - Last edited on 18-Nov-2018 11:22:43 by Tenebri

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19-Nov-2018 15:39:36

Tenebri

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buying more tickests and rigging it are 2 different things.

if he is selling this gold somehow that he obtains then sure ban him i agree. but right now we are talking about getting more tickets...

its not listed in the rules anywhere. if you are refering to the rigging minigames with alts. then you miss understand that.

so quit with the name calling etc it doesnt shine a good light on you
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19-Nov-2018 19:39:21 - Last edited on 19-Nov-2018 19:41:39 by Tenebri

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20-Nov-2018 00:08:16

Tenebri

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Draco Burnz said:
Ironman Gup said:
I believe raffle rigging should be a bannable offence based on being immoral as is botting


Yet jagex have already said it isnt.

So you keep going on about this is going nowhere fast.


Okay.

I'll keep it up as I believe stopping raffle riggins will help improve the integrity of the game :).


people think pking people who are skilling in wildy is immoral should that be bannable offence?
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23-Nov-2018 22:29:38

Tenebri

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Draco Burnz said:
Ironman Gup said:
The difference being the wildy was made for pvp, the raffle wasnt made to be rigged


Yet in a way everything can be "rigged" if you know how to exploit it correctly.


The game was made in a way to make it possible to bot. Does that mean people should bot because the game was made in a way where it's possible to bot?

How about when people find a bug? The game was made that way, so should people exploit it?


Botting is against rules. Owning more than one account is not
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05-Dec-2018 13:45:44

Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:
Love how you guys keep dismissing the rules relating to alternate accounts. Quick to shoot Iron down, even though he is absolutely right with his comparison.

Botting is against the rules, that's an obvious one. Are you aware that there are limitations for what's allowed to be done with alternate accounts written in the rules?

Are you going to assume the rule is limited to minigames alone, acting like any minigames are even near as powerful of an advantage as rigging the events can be?

You would report a person for rigging castle wars by putting his alts and main as the teams. When all he can get is nonprofit items like capes and halos.

But you won't report any events being rigged that profit billions because it doesn't specifically say events in the rules?

Sorry, that sounds ridiculous to me. Also part of the reason I've had a 2 year active thread suggesting they update the rules. Because people like you try to find loopholes in them to justify abuse.


Can you explain how he profited billions on nontradeable items

We have also gone oast the minigame aspect of alts i dont know why you keep bringing it up thinking it has value.

All ibsaid was owning more than one account is not against rules... which is correct so how was i dismissing anything?

If you can provide anything to validate your claims be great. Youve posted the rules on alts which is awesome but it doesnt coincide this thread. As you are talking about rigging an event and the rules arent 100% clear on it. So all youbare doing is making assumption using more than one account for the raffle is against rules. When its not stated anywhere.

You think it should be against rules whwre as i dont. Instead of concentrating on me and draco concentrate on solidifying your argument.

All youvr said is its unclear if minigames also means this raffle. Which helps no one...
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06-Dec-2018 13:34:05 - Last edited on 06-Dec-2018 13:40:36 by Tenebri

Tenebri

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in every thread ive spoken to you in, i think not once you have stayed on topic... this thread is about the raffle, not pinatas or the beach event.... seriously are you able to stay on topic?

i assumed this thread was talking about the raffle. the list you provided has nothing to do with the raffle.... its th and other events

i boss on my alt while i afk on here. are you now annoyed me at me for rigging pvm? just curious


but id rather stay on topic and talk about raffle rigging... which is what i thought this was not just owning alts?

so apologies gor saying the raffle only provided untradeable items. as you werent just talking about the raffle.... which is what i assumed you were talking about


ill also add this

which you didnt highlight

Trading wealth or items between your own accounts is done entirely at your own risk. Unconventional trade methods like drop-, death- or trust-trades are particularly risky and we strongly advise against them.


the only risk its talking about is scamming its not against rules to make gp on one and give to another.
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06-Dec-2018 19:26:03 - Last edited on 06-Dec-2018 19:31:08 by Tenebri

Tenebri

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my ignorance? i asked you about how rigging raffle is bringing in billions of gp. your answer didnt include the raffle...

if youd like to get back on topic that would be great.

i havent said minigames specifically. you keep bringing up minigames not me

so again i repeat how hows he bought in billions of gp by having more than one account with the raffle. considering that is the topic at hand

im aware exploiting game mechanics is a rule. if you can provide how this has been done then great we will finally be having some progress.

the main reason for the rule is exploit it for a gain for one account. aka winning games for one account purposely losing on another. with the raffle there is only gain for the individual accounts as nothing can be xfered over
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06-Dec-2018 21:17:10 - Last edited on 06-Dec-2018 21:21:57 by Tenebri

Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:


I don't care if you think it's about the raffle specifically or not, because the guy rigging it intends to rig all limited events, not just the raffle. He is rigging all limited events, which are more powerful gains than minigames. And you still think the rule is only intended for minigames, which is your flaw.


if he is rigging other events etc then great ban him like he should be banned.... but right now we are talking about introducing certain rules specifically to do with raffle.

we are also not talking about 1 individual person.

it seems we have been discussing something with 2 different things in mind. youve been talking about 1 person rigging stuff. (i agree if he is then deserves ban)

ive been talking about the thread topic of introducing a rule to placed on the raffle to do with alts

so please stay on topic.... otherwise we get nowhere
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06-Dec-2018 21:23:29 - Last edited on 06-Dec-2018 21:25:18 by Tenebri

Tenebri

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Draco Burnz said:
Whatusaytome said:
The raffle is not intended to be rigged. At all. Hence the reason they limit the number of tickets available per account, and why they don't sell the tickets outright allowing everybody to have access to higher odds.


Yet its not being rigged and jagex have confirmed this person isnt.

So whos the ignorant one again?


hes just ignoring everything he doesnt agree with....

especially as he purposely ignored the questions to keep this conversation on track. yet just doesnt help the conversation at all. and seems to be talking about anything he feels fit and doesnt care if its on topic or not.... so meh not feeding troll
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06-Dec-2018 22:11:28 - Last edited on 06-Dec-2018 22:12:49 by Tenebri

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
I think the problem here is you guys are saying raffle rigging isn't against the rules, so we should allow it while I'm saying that due to the harm it does to the game it should be changed to being against the rules.

I still believe the rules need to be checked again.


can you explain what harm its done?

if it gets changed to being against rules so be it. but so far nothing has been presented to say it should be changed.

and as stated we can have more than one account. and its limited to 2 tickets per account. the winnings of said raffle arent tradeable so only effect the individual account. it doesnt benefit the "main" account of owner of the accounts. which is what the rule states about owning alts being against rules.

you claim its immoral to do this (people can claim anything is immoral it needs to be backed up, not just stated).. its been stated as draco said in twitch etc that this isnt against rules. which yes you want changed. but if you can explain how its actually doing harm to the game which im sure youll claim you have. so can you just repeat it. we can maybe get somewhere.

if you just say "Oh ItS iMmOrAl" like usual that doesnt get us anywhere explanation needs to be used.

lets take it out of game context and just a normal raffle.
someone buys 100 tickets where as all other people have around 3-10 tickets. this isnt rigging it its using statistical advantage which is allowed. and is also allowed here. by having more than one account. which again i see a lack of reasoning to say this shouldnt be allowed

youve asked for a level limit or a max of x amount of alts to be legal to do so. which creates more issues than what stands now. and wouldnt solve anything anyway.

i dont see how a small event has cause harm to the game. for items most people dont care about.

integrity is also word you used alot.... again with no backing up as to why. these items are useless mainly just cosmetic.
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11-Dec-2018 00:32:53

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:


A while ago you even said that what he was doing is wrong.

The harm that is done is raffle riggers are intentionally diluting the reward pool of useful items (items with stats) for the legitimate players. Even if it was only cosmetic, raffle riggers are robbing people from a chance to win the items.

You have made a comparison between RL and RS raffles. I would say they are not comparable, in the same way as gambling on RS & RL isnt comparable. Just because gambling is allowed irl doesnt mean it's allowed to happen ingame.

Another argument you make is anyone can say "It is immoral" without proof. I have stated why it is immoral many times, and your main argument was it is not against the rules. The argument that "you need proof" for something subjective is also problematic. I could use the same logic to ask why the Khasoggi murder is immoral, and ask for objective proof as to why its not okay.


so how does diluting the item pool effect the game? esepcailly when these items are not tradeable and dont effect economy or actual game play. as stated they are only cosmetic different to low tier items already.

you are now using murder? as a comparable. if i cant use rl raffle to compare to rs raffle. rl murder to a rs raffle surely is far from acceptable hahahaha

and to answer murder is immoral i agree.

but can we talk about the raffle at hand? not murder etc doesnt get anywhere to help your case of getting it be against rules.

all youve done is show morality is somewhat subjective and holds no relevance to this argument anymore
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11-Dec-2018 12:36:05 - Last edited on 11-Dec-2018 12:38:59 by Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:


This is Immoral, and the unfairly won limited time prizes, wasted. People wanted those. Do you just not care? Or is it wrong for them to feel cheated?

This regulation is set for everybody and raises a sense of fairness in the raffle, which is what limiting the tickets per person was supposed to do. And this is far better than allowing one person to win far more than he will ever need while forcing less actual people to get anything
.


can you elaborate how its immoral. as stated before just saying its immoral doesnt mean it is. also stated previous post morality is subjective and cant be used as a reasoning to change a rule. so more is needed not just "its immoral"

yes this regulation is set for everyone well done. we all if we want to can make many alts to do this to. he chose to do so. but again as ive stated we arent talking about flare....
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12-Dec-2018 00:01:08

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:

can you elaborate how its immoral. as stated before just saying its immoral doesnt mean it is. also stated previous post morality is subjective and cant be used as a reasoning to change a rule. so more is needed not just "its immoral"


Laws are generally made on morality (Although there are often discrepancies).

I have stated that morality is subjective, but to say that it isnt enough to changes rules is not correct. Otherwise I could say we should be allowed to murder people because morals don't matter


yes laws are generally made over morality i agree.

yes especially when someone says its not immoral to have more than 100+ accounts for the raffle. you are now having to add more. if everyone said "yes i agree its immoral" then sure popularity n all. but as of right now it seems its 2 v 2 (me and draco saying its not immoral, and you and whats saying it is) say just saying its immoral for a rule change. can also be said for no its not immoral for no change....

so yes more is needed if people disagree
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12-Dec-2018 10:41:19

Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:


Read Iron's signature. Stand up for what's Right, not what's allowed. Just because something is allowed currently doesn't make it right. Hence our argument for Morality, which for some reason, you care nothing about.
.


thats what i am doing. i am standing up for whats right. i think it should be allowed to have more than one account or more than 100 accounts to use for the raffle. thats what im standing up for. the fact you think im not standing up for whats right in my own mind. is just mind boggling ignorant to think that you only think that your way is right.

the reason im constanty having the mind dumbling argument with you is because if people want to use alts for the raffle they should be allowed. you are wanting to limit that.

so yes i am standing up whats right.
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12-Dec-2018 10:44:30

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:


1) It affects peoples experience with the game

2) I'm not saying the murder is as mad as raffle rigging. I am saying your argument that one person (ie. you) cannot determine what is morally acceptable. Most rs players are against Raffle rigging.

3. Quite often I see you say that others are getting off track when they are on it. I have seen comments in the past that have shown intentions of being off-topic, so I ask kindly for you to stop trying to take the high ground on this when people are on-topic. If you cannot do this then I would ask that you make your own thread on the topic if you still have concerns regarding this topic rather than posting here. I would like the thread to stay on topic and I feel this may be an attempt to do the opposite given the past comments made.


1. by what 0.0001% people being pked in wildy will also effect peoples game play. ive lost mills in wildy. im more annoyed at that than not having a golden verac flail....

2. are they? where did you get this information? from what it seems this thread has been going for a while. and only people that seem to care on the outcome is 4 people. as rest who have commented have left it alone.(cause id assume they dont care)

3. yeah sometimes getting off track is normal. its a case of how to get back on track
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12-Dec-2018 10:46:36 - Last edited on 12-Dec-2018 10:48:10 by Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:
You never listen.

I am saying it nerds to be limited for a reason. Because only a handful of people ever have the capability to have this level of advantage and it is unfair to the entire general population to specifically allow such an extreme and unnecessary advantage.


i know you are saying that? im asking for that specific reason. and yes im aware there are only limited amount of these items. im saying if someone is willing to pay for this advantage they should be allowed for it....

Whatusaytome said:

How does it benefit those players abusing this right? How does it benefit everybody else? Does Jagex not care because they make money and don't care about fairness?

ask jagex i guess i cant answer that

Whatusaytome said:

Like I said, you aren't saving anything about the game by defending the right to rig any events for such a minority of people. Especially when the rest of the population is not capable of doing the same. It's unfair and you can't change our minds about it.

it seems you cant change your mind on it too? least im willing to say i can change my mind on it if presented good enough reasoning.

Whatusaytome said:


You are also ignorant to the fact I keep saying I'm fine with alt use. You just don't see the purpose of a limitation, and you don't understand that I'd accept 100 alts as long as that stops those people who use thousands. But you won't accept that.

okay? i dont care if you are okay or not okay with alt use? we are talking about the raffle. so i dont seem how im ignorant to this?

but okay (y)
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12-Dec-2018 21:38:07

Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:
We are talking about the unfair alt use, be it in the raffle or not. And I am expanding it to all limited events because the raffle is only one of many that get rigged. Stop minimizing everything.


I was being rhetorical about Jagex just not caring about fairness, yet you took that part seriously.


no we are talking about "unfair" use to the raffle. not alt use on other aspects of game to
(actually you are talking about alt use and other uses of alts, everyone else is talking about alt use specifically for the raffle, considering thats the topic)

actualy i didnt give an answer to that so i didnt take it seriously. most things you say i take with a pinch of salt. its why i said i ask jagex... its a void answer....
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13-Dec-2018 10:19:17 - Last edited on 13-Dec-2018 10:38:31 by Tenebri

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Draco Burnz said:
Whatusaytome said:
We are talking about the unfair alt use, be it in the raffle or not. And I am expanding it to all limited events because the raffle is only one of many that get rigged. Stop minimizing everything.


Yet once again, it only "unfair" in yours and OP's minds. No one elses.

Thus theres nothing wrong going on here.


I've seen you ant tenebri use this statement so I will elaborate.

Ask around and there are many people who dislike raffle rigging. There are posts with hundreds of upvotes criticising the raffle rigger as well as asking for raffle rigigng to be hindered, and you are ignoring all those poeple.

Forums is very inactive compared to the rest of the commuity. There are few people posting on here but it seems threads attract trolls who are more likely to agree with raffle rigging.

I don't see why anyone thinks only 2 people think raffle rigging should be against the rules, unless they are deliberately ignoring information to help with their own argument.


im sure if you phrased it differently instead of using the negative "rigging" and used "how do you feel about alts being used in raffle?"
the % of agreeing and idsagreeing would be different.
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13-Dec-2018 10:40:48

Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:
Whatusaytome said:


I can change my mind and say allow it if I was presented a good reason. But all you are saying is "they paid to do it" which is not good enough. If it was supposed to be that simple, why not simply allow tickets to be bought? For gp, loyalty points, rc, dollars, whatever.

Why didn't they do it like that? Instead of saying alts are the only way to bypass the 2 ticket limitation they placed on everybody? Anybody can participate with those other methods, but are you only going to defend the one that people can't do?
You seem to think I'm against people getting tickets.. what I'm against is that only so few people can invest in tickets like this, while the majority cannot. So if anything, they should make the tickets purchasable in a way that anybody willing to invest in the raffle can. I'd rather the ticket pool be flooded with tons of people's investments rather than being unnecessarily in favor of one person, or a small handful of people.


Well using same logic. They didnt make it against rules. So they dont mind if using alt. They made it clear it was 2 tickets per account. So all is good in world
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13-Dec-2018 17:19:35

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:
Ironman Gup said:
Draco Burnz said:
Whatusaytome said:
We are talking about the unfair alt use, be it in the raffle or not. And I am expanding it to all limited events because the raffle is only one of many that get rigged. Stop minimizing everything.


Yet once again, it only "unfair" in yours and OP's minds. No one elses.

Thus theres nothing wrong going on here.


I've seen you ant tenebri use this stat...

Ask around and there are many people who dislike raffle rigging. There are posts with hundreds of upvotes criticising the raffle rigger as well as asking for raffle rigigng to be hindered, and you are ignoring all those poeple.

Forums is very inactive compared to the rest of the commuity. There are few people posting on here but it seems threads attract trolls who are more likely to agree with raffle rigging.

I don't see why anyone thinks only 2 people think raffle rigging should be against the rules, unless they are deliberately ignoring information to help with their own argument.


im sure if you phrased it differently instead of using the negative "rigging" and used "how do you feel about alts being used in raffle?"
the % of agreeing and idsagreeing would be different.


I think you trying to say it is 50% support of raffle rigging is more iaccurate than me using a negative word.


no im not im saying if you say "are you against raffle rigging" or "are you against alts being used in raffle"
the outcome will be different

phrasing is very important to get a true scale. if you were to ask me am i agasint raffle rigging. id say 100% against it. but you assume using alts is rigging a raffle. so how many people are going to be fooled by the phrasing? i would be. its why it should be a specific question. aka how its "rigged" not the word rigged. be more accurate
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17-Dec-2018 13:37:40 - Last edited on 17-Dec-2018 13:42:52 by Tenebri

Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:
Tenebri said:

no im not im saying if you say "are you against raffle rigging" or "are you against alts being used in raffle"
the outcome will be different

phrasing is very important to get a true scale. if you were to ask me am i agasint raffle rigging. id say 100% against it. but you assume using alts is rigging a raffle. so how many people are going to be fooled by the phrasing? i would be. its why it should be a specific question. aka how its "rigged" not the word rigged. be more accurate
we are accurate in saying it's rigged in one person's favor. Like I said, not everybody can invest in alternates like him.

Why won't you acknowledge that if it was something everybody could do for better odds, we wouldn't be complaining about a few people RIGGING it. After all this time, you couldn't make a comment on what I said last.

If it was available to everybody to get that many extra tickets if they chose to, then we wouldnt complain. But why won't you support ticket sales? Why must we need a thousand alts to even compare to this person, or others?

If investing was supposed to be allowed, do it that way, not with alts. Stop assuming everything is fine based of them saying alts is fine. Make it available to all in a fair way.

Like I said, I'm not against alts either. I'm against the absurd number of them being used to rig the event, causing significantly less winners. Which you seem fine with.


just because you put rigging in caps doesnt change my opinion on using alts. it isnt rigging...
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17-Dec-2018 21:14:59 - Last edited on 17-Dec-2018 21:15:41 by Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:
Dude, just stop. Enter on alts you'd want the prizes on, dont enter on thousands, because you won't use them. That's rigging.
And it's useless.


You still can't even comment on an alternative method of investing in the raffle.


you are right the rewards are useless except dt darts and proteans, which cant be traded and they dont effect the game at all. so whats the problem?
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17-Dec-2018 22:15:37

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:
Whatusaytome said:
Dude, just stop. Enter on alts you'd want the prizes on, dont enter on thousands, because you won't use them. That's rigging.
And it's useless.


You still can't even comment on an alternative method of investing in the raffle.


you are right the rewards are useless except dt darts and proteans, which cant be traded and they dont effect the game at all. so whats the problem?


Again a nice attempt to deliberately misinterpret what Whatusaytome said. He is saying the rewrads are useless to the raffle rigger, not to the general public. For example the protean packs could give legitimate players xp, which seems to be important to you as you play all day for it and have it as your signature.


well the main general argument is that raffle rigging effects the game as a whole... so i was going off on that. considering you know. thats the reason you dispise people using alts (or alot of them) for the raffle.

what was it you said. it effects the game integrity? but now it doesnt?

make up your mind. does it effect the game integrity (if so then my response to whats, is still valid) if it doesnt. then your argument for this whole thread shatters.

because isnt that what this games integrity is? the individual playing? so yeah... you going back on your own argument or not?
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18-Dec-2018 21:46:48 - Last edited on 18-Dec-2018 21:50:45 by Tenebri

Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:
You still can't comment on supporting a fair alternative investment method to allow people the right to invest freely. Why must it be thousands of accounts as opposed to something more can use? Why are you so desperate to disagree with us and ignore the fair alternatives?



What are you talking about. If i dont think there needs to be change why would i comment about an alternative.. you want something different. I dont

Why do you think me commenting or not commenting on an alternative holds an relevence to my point.

Everyone has this right to invest freely. We all have it already.

Are you sure you are okay?


@iron if you think im trolling the just report me or atleast provide how. Every single time ive posted im responding in civil manner and to the topic. So i have no idea why you say this.
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19-Dec-2018 14:13:46 - Last edited on 19-Dec-2018 14:22:49 by Tenebri

Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:
It's only your personal opinion that nothing needs to be changed. That doesn't mean you are correct.

Let me ask you this, why do you say you support people being able to have as many tickets as they want, but refuse to support any option to allow purchasing tickets?

Why treat me like an idiot for suggesting they make purchasing tickets more available to the general public, instead of only allowing those players with thousands of accounts?


its your personal opinion you think it does... saying "personal opinion" gets no where. so i dont know why you keep adding this. instead of actual viable evidence for it to be changed. everything on this forum is personal opinion. why is this your go to. it doesnt help the thread at all. stay on topic. im aware its my opinion (because guess what treacle its my opinion lmao)

if they make it so purchasing tickets is allowed and remove the 2 ticket cap per account. i wouldnt be against it? where did i say i "refused" to support it? i havent said anything of the sort.

i think you take things too personally. if you think im treating you like an idiot.... if i was to treat you like an idiot it implies i care. all im doing is voicing my opinion to the subject. not you.

all it seems now is just bickering with out anything actually helpful to this topic. just back to "trying" to make personal attacks of what im saying. instead of addressing the actual topic
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19-Dec-2018 19:25:24 - Last edited on 19-Dec-2018 19:31:13 by Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:
Tenebri said:
Whatusaytome said:
....



What are you talking about. If i dont think there needs to be change why would i comment about an alternative.. you want something different. I dont
You don't get it, your opinion says "You want something different, I don't" so sorry for thinking you didnt support any changes. Speak more clearly next time and don't contradict yourself.

My goal is fairness. Not everybody has alts, let alone thousands. Not everybody with alts enters them all in the raffle. But they would invest in more tickets on the few they do enter with. As things are, it's unbalanced and unfair.

You haven't supported anything we've said, you desperately find any counterargument you can instead. I certainly haven't seen you say "hmm.. another method of buying tickets is a good idea, support" or any attempt to make an agreement instead of baiting us to flame you as ignorant.


i didnt contradict myself at all.

if i had a jar full of marbles one person said there is 27 marbles in there. i disagreed. doesnt mean ive made a claim of 34 marbles.

you made that assumption all i did was disagree with you. made no assertion. next time dont assume...

you are correct there i have no supported anything you have said. same to you you havent with me? does that mean i can use your own paragraph against yourself? why is that even worth writing? how is it going to help

your goal is fairness. everyone is welcome to make alts. sure some people cant make 3k... i know i cant or wont. but theres a limit of fairness. some people cant afford 200m all buyables some can. some can pvm some cant. where yours limit on fair

come back with actual validity then maybe ill respond but if not this will be last post instead of just wasting my time with people who barely know how to construct an argument something care about, but instead resort to going off topic
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19-Dec-2018 23:00:35 - Last edited on 19-Dec-2018 23:10:13 by Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:
Whatusaytome said:
why not simply allow tickets to be bought? For gp, loyalty points, rc, dollars, whatever.
Already been said I'm fine with another method as long as it's openly available to people.


oh sorry i meant to say " a fair method" hasnt been suggested

that isnt a fair method. you are now talking about wealth being in the equation. some people wont be able to afford this. same with unable to make x amount of alts
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20-Dec-2018 23:49:08 - Last edited on 20-Dec-2018 23:49:25 by Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:
You'd support a fair method you say, but allowing people to use something that is commonplace, like gold, as opposed to alts, is unfair? You aren't suggesting anything better.


yes i would support a fairer method. when one is provided.
as of now one has not been provided.
im not here to give you suggestions. i dont know why you assume this. just because ive not given another alternative doesnt mean something should be changed
do i think the method now is 100% fair no of course not. again i can use my marble in a jar analogy i used earlier. but you claim your other method is more fair.
you are asking for a change and all you are doing is shifting the unfairness to something else. you havent made it more fair at all.
ill go into it further. with this method you provide does this mean no alts can be used? or can we still use alts? or is there a limit on alts?
if no alts can be used. that brings in another unfairness. unfair to people who own a few alts and play them seperately for different reason. they still want said items on each account and should have right to try of course.
if theres a limit on alt. people can still use up to limit and buy tickets "lowering the pool of rewards" which doesnt help one of the main reasons you dislike current method of raffle
any amount of alts used. then nothing has changed at all. except more unfairness. people lack money now will have even less chance of winning.

so explain how your method is more fair
if i agree then ill change my mind but i really dont think you can
and again i repeat im not here to brainstorm with you other methods for the raffle when im not the one proposing a change.... ignorant to think i should be

ill also add the stance i take on most things is. if a change is wanted and what is presented isnt better than what we have. what i go for is "not to change" and thats my opinion to your new method.
does i mean i think current is best way? no
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22-Dec-2018 00:37:05 - Last edited on 22-Dec-2018 00:42:23 by Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:
Draco Burnz said:
Ironman Gup said:


I am tyvm.

Im saying that the rewards can give quite a powerful boost to ones acc.
what boost are those golden armors and weapons for level 3 throwaway accounts?

Maybe the darts can be of some use to get him rare drops, but
why is he one of the only few who can play that many? Why can't it be in a way most people are at least capable of
, so they can decide if they want to enter more tickets on the real accounts they use daily.

Why do they need to make hundreds of accounts they will never use just to enter to win untradeable prizes? That makes no sense
.


why do people stay 1 defence
why do people stay level 3 and skill
why do people do max
why do people only do pvm
are you now annoyed at a game style? when im pretty sure few months ago "game style" was your go to dont discriminate against game style? (or am i thinking of someone else?)

even so if you werent. this person goal may have been a level 3 account with araxxi pet (achieved)
level 3 with kk pet (achieved)
people have goals and there are ways to achieve them. this was one of them

level 3 accounts with 200m slayer majoirty bought th keys for slayer dummies and used on dxpw. best way to do it for them as that choice

you also said why is he only one allowed to do this. everyone is allowed to do this. infact the more that do the less chance he has of winning everything.

ill also add "why is it only rich people are allowed to buy this many tickest i cant" can be used with the method you suggested.

having a limit on alts imo is fairer than buying tickets. he used what 3k alts?/ 6k tickets. if people were able to buy them thered be a lot more than 6k more tickets entering the game.

also add yet again we arent talking about one person.... we are talking about the raffle as a whole. and the rules for it. you keep doing this
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22-Dec-2018 00:52:23

Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:
And what do those goals of his do to benefit anything or anybody? Is his level 3 boss pet account important? No. All it is to him is an ego boost.
.


what goals of anyone benefit anybody?
how do my goals benefit anybody?

come on man... seriously thats your counter.....

nobodies goals benefit anybody. unless the specific goal is to benefit people...

are my 1 def accounts important no is my 5.1b xp account important no. is your account important no.

its all personal goals that benefit no one. with everybody

if someones goal is insane final boss. how does that benefit anyone....

how are you able to write this and think this is a good argument... honestly


everything is an ego boost for anyones goals. whether its max one 99 a 120. it makes them feel good the person achieving it.


with your logic 99% of the rs population should be banned or atleast need something done. as 99% wont help or benefit anyone. 99% is just for ego boost.

im actually shocked this was what you said to that.

and you left for how long with out thinking?
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22-Dec-2018 09:47:03 - Last edited on 22-Dec-2018 09:51:04 by Tenebri

Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:

My suggestion is a benefit to the game as a whole as well as the raffle. Because investing means large amounts of gold sunk each time the event is held. Limiting 90% of players to 2 tickets is a pretty shitty raffle ticket pool in my opinion.


back to the actual topic and not something hilarious well done

ive listed 3 ways yours does not benefit the game. depending on which way round it goes

ive asked you to show how it benefits the game

going

It BeNiFitS tHe GaMe

doesnt give me any information.

did you even read what i said?


yes i agree wealth is easily obtainable. but for some it is not. loyalty runs out runecoins require real life money which some people dont have.

your idea is not at all fair it is worse than the way we have it now

its more micro-transactions which people hate.
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22-Dec-2018 09:53:03 - Last edited on 22-Dec-2018 09:54:36 by Tenebri

Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:
Either limit everybody to a fair maximum, or don't limit anybody at all. Don't force people to make countless extra accounts they don't want to use just to have a chance to win something they can't transfer over to the accounts they do use.

And don't say it isn't beneficial to the game to sink gold and make the company profit. Complain all you want, mtx is here to stay.


Now how about you disprove my points instead of just calling me an idiot. You aren't saying anything is actually wrong with people investing in tickets, all you are saying is you think it's better how it is, and I keep telling you it's not better as it is, where the majority of the game's players are extremely limited. And the few who aren't, putting all who are at an extreme disadvantage with no fair way for them to counter it.

Why do you desperately have to argue instead of being productive for once? Is complaining about me all you are capable of?


i never called you an idiot if you can quote me doing that or just report it that would be fine by me


and i have disproved it ill requote for you as i didnt get a response last time

Tenebri said:

ill go into it further. with this method you provide does this mean no alts can be used? or can we still use alts? or is there a limit on alts?
if no alts can be used. that brings in another unfairness. unfair to people who own a few alts and play them seperately for different reason. they still want said items on each account and should have right to try of course.
if theres a limit on alt. people can still use up to limit and buy tickets "lowering the pool of rewards" which doesnt help one of the main reasons you dislike current method of raffle
any amount of alts used. then nothing has changed at all. except more unfairness. people lack money now will have even less chance of winning.
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22-Dec-2018 17:16:18

Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:

Gold is available to all and is easy to get. And everybody collects it. Not everybody uses or collects alts, so why is that the only way to bypass the current limit?

You keep contradicting yourself in every other post, saying in one that you'd support a fair way to invest, but you won't suggest anything yourself or support anything we suggest. You aren't here to make any difference, you are just here to complain about the people who feel it should be different.

Why do you desperately have to argue instead of being productive for once? Is complaining about me all you are capable of?


im now repeating myself. i am not here to brainstorm with you ideas

how are you not understanding this? how many times do i have to say to say that?

what contradictions have i made poppet? just because im not (again brainstorming ideas) is not a contradiction. ive shown that your idea is not fair at all and is worse than the way we have it now. ive asked you to explain how yours is better. and you havent even tried to explain.

reason why im not trying to create ideas. as the way that it is now. even though it isnt 100% fair i believe it is the best way. everyone has the capable powers to make alts. not everyone has capability to buy tickets. you maybe rich idk but not everyone is.

ive also explained further in the quote above.

can you atleast attempt to prove me wrong? or will you go off topic / accuse me of doing something again like per usual? i cant wait to find out
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22-Dec-2018 17:21:12

Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:
The way it is now needs to be changed. Whether only adding a limit to the overly dramatic of accounts some people use, or by allowing the rest access to more tickets. The way it is now, as you say is not fair, but it is not the best ot can be.

You aren't trying to compromise on anything, thanks for admitting that. So why are you here? Just to complain about the people complaining about the raffle?


can you answer the questions i asked? or are you always going to ignore them? thats how compromises happen etc i need a better understanding on your idea. which you just ignore these questions.

if you dont next post. then ill only respond when its actually worth it. instead of your blatant attempt to avoid them


so how is your idea any better than the way it is now? with ive now said twice (you have ignored twice not even mentioned) it shows its actually worse


Tenebri said:


can you atleast attempt to prove me wrong? or will you go off topic / accuse me of doing something again like per usual? i cant wait to find out


i do love getting answers lmao
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22-Dec-2018 18:25:33 - Last edited on 22-Dec-2018 18:26:56 by Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:
Are you going to compromise with us or are you here to complain about people complaining? Compromises happen when both parties discuss the options. Which you just said you are not here to do.

.


and im discussing them... jesus you are difficult


so you arent going to give me more information on your idea. cause i have the "general idea" of it.

nice help you are.. have good time this is why things havent changed since the start of thread.... congrats
best to give more information on your idea. then we can go into a compromise.... its how things work, there actually needs to be a discussion. if you arent willing to discuss your own idea. why even post off topic stuff?



good luck to anyone else wanting a "discussion" youll just get pushed to off topic, then get told you are troll. even though your questions never get answered and are the one keeping it being on topic by only responding to the topic itself

dont accuse me of what you are doing yourself it just shows lack of respect for yourself and the person you are speaking to
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22-Dec-2018 20:59:10 - Last edited on 22-Dec-2018 21:04:40 by Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:
Your questions aren't helping the suggestions be more plausible. .


i need a better understanding on your idea to know first dont i treacle.

as i said now a few times.

with your idea

are alts allowed?
are they not allowed?
are only a few allowed?

if you cant answer that how am i suppose to know what your idea entails?

ive already explained that even with all those 3 situations. your idea is still worse. thatn the current method....


if you arent willing to answer questions on your idea. you fail on your idea.

imagine pitching an idea to your manager at work. he asks you for information. and you just go. "you have general idea of it why are you asking questions?"

youve given literally nothing to the idea just "pay for tickets" thats not helpful at all. so of course i need more information.

im really trying here. if you cant be bothered to even go into your idea. it shows you know it sucks in first place. you just cant admit it

and yes right now they are off topic. if you actually answered the questions. we would be on topic wouldnt we poppet? isnt that amazing how that works.....

and my posts have only ever been removed due to off topic. when in conversation to you

with anyone else its never been removed..... i wonder why


so can we get on topic. and you just answer the question. because right now this is pathetic

hopefully youll have a worthy post ahead. i highly doubt it though. prove me wrong
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22-Dec-2018 23:32:12 - Last edited on 22-Dec-2018 23:37:38 by Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:
With my idea.


you proved me wrong it was actually a post on topic. wasnt that hard was it now.

reason why im against purchasing tickets, is there are many people who buy maximum they can in th etc during certain th events. which not everyone can afford. and you stated its fairness that you wanted. to me thats not fair. which is why i said no to it. in terms of fairness.

instead of buying tickets like you have said earning tickets is a nice way to overcome it. using christmas cracker we have now. can be similar to what that is. while skilling or killing, chance of getting x "part of ticket" and x amount of these creates 1 ticket. with this the people that are using 100 alts (the max) they cant gain enough for each account. it will be mainly the main account they can use which will get the benefit of actual play time. and will also help the people that dont use alts at all. that can be their competitive chance. will they be able to make 200 tickets each day? most likely not. but then their chance of getting a specific item has been increased significantly. especially if they keep tickets for the day they actually really want to win.
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23-Dec-2018 18:43:55

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Ironman Gup said:
Draco Burnz said:
Ironman Gup said:
All we want is to make it so people cant rig the raffle with the intention of diluting the reward pool for others. You can make a hard cap of how many alt accounts you can use before it is most likely going into that (i.e. 10 accounts). That doesnt impair players rights except those rigging the raffle. Period.


Yet its pretty much near impossible to do this w/o hurting legit players.

I mean it makes no sense for there to be any caps, nothing is tradeable thus it doesnt hurt the economy in the slightest.

I get it you want better chances at rewards, but sometimes you cant always have everything you want.


What payers would it hurt?

Also deathtouch darts can convert to boss drops, which are tradeable. Not to mention various rewards convert to xp, which often cost gp to get. Just because something isnt tradeable doesnt mean it should be riggable.


Yes dt darts will result in boss drops. The amount is small however. And even so no matter which way it goes it will always be the same amount of boss kills as its limited amount of dt darts. So no matter which way if you were able to make it no alts at all. Or 3k alts for everyone. The amount of kills will always be same. So i dont see any relevence here at all


And i agree it would be better to make it all fair hunky dory for everyone. But no method has been presented just whinging about it. That is all. The method presented by whats has failed in all aspects as alreadyvstated. And the amount he igbored it showed that. As he wasnt even willing to attempt to show otherwise. Just just berate me in saying im not wanting an alternative....


So until a better idea or method is shown. Its the default of no change. As it stands now


You are wanting the impossible. Especially as you arent giving any other ways yourself. Tondiscuss. Its just tantrums and and negativity
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27-Dec-2018 13:42:35 - Last edited on 27-Dec-2018 13:43:29 by Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Ironman Gup said:
....


If you believe the options presented are ineffective or problematic, thats your opinion which you are entitled to. I disagree (As does someone else here) which is why we say it should be looked into further. I certainly believe putting a cap on how many alt accounts can play will not be problematic if the number iis high enough.

Ironman Gup said:
.


The argument of "The raffle items arent tradeable" crumbles at this point. Your next alternative is that theres very few DT darts ingame, which is not true and it can bring highly valueable and sought out items ingame. That is why they cost 5m each (or 15m for 3) at the travelling merchants shop. I dont see how that is valueless.


that argument doesnt fail here dt darts are not tradeable. from the raffle end of. with you trying to equate them to having value by drops is petty. you have said that this effects the game as whole. when the amount bought in is so small. it cant have an effect on the game

we now in circles....

you need to start bringing something to this debate not how people are responding to it. atleast whats was trying to get an alternative method which i respected and asked him to explain and go into. unfortunately after that he seemed to have disappeared :(.

so either bring something to this or i cba anymore let this thread die like it should have ages ago

you always seem to make it like you quote yourself... it can be confusing lol
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27-Dec-2018 22:56:24 - Last edited on 27-Dec-2018 22:59:16 by Tenebri

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28-Dec-2018 00:00:46

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Ironman Gup said:
Draco Burnz said:


Yet like ive said before, jagex seem to think its fine as nothing is hurting the economy and its hard to place this "limit" as it could hurt legit players.


I am providing the argument that it is not okay, and Jagex stating they will not make it riggable is evidence to show they see it as an issue.



yes rigging it is not okay.

but what you are saying is rigging jagex dont see it that way.
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02-Jan-2019 22:49:01

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Whatusaytome said:
Do you like that he uses 3k accounts? Or would you prefer if he couldn't use as many?


meh. each to their own. i personally dont mind.

why do you go always go to that one person. as said many many many times. this isnt about that one person. its about how jagex handle the raffle.

its a nice diversion when you get put in the corner with no way out.

because the only thing that does matter. is if jagex care about this person using 3k alts. and the answer is no they dont care.
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02-Jan-2019 23:25:50 - Last edited on 02-Jan-2019 23:28:51 by Tenebri

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03-Jan-2019 22:33:44

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:
Ironman Gup said:
Draco Burnz said:


Yet like ive said before, jagex seem to think its fine as nothing is hurting the economy and its hard to place this "limit" as it could hurt legit players.


I am providing the argument that it is not okay, and Jagex stating they will not make it riggable is evidence to show they see it as an issue.



yes rigging it is not okay.

but what you are saying is rigging jagex dont see it that way.


Then what are Jagex stopping?


unsure why my response to this got removed. but fair dos theres was a lot of off topic past 2 pages. start clean here.

again we dont know what every bad stuff happens. the only reason we know of this guy is because hes openly discussed it and posted it. so to me it seems jagex do not see this as rigging. especially as they said its not riggable. :)


@toxicity its good to have a clear up so thanks. i agree opinions are valid even if its not same as others ;) no matter how we wish to post
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03-Jan-2019 22:58:00 - Last edited on 03-Jan-2019 22:58:49 by Tenebri

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:
Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:
Ironman Gup said:
Draco Burnz said:


Yet like ive said before, jagex seem to think its fine as nothing is hurting the economy and its hard to place this "limit" as it could hurt legit players.


I am providing the argument that it is not okay, and Jagex stating they will not make it riggable is evidence to show they see it as an issue.



yes rigging it is not okay.

but what you are saying is rigging jagex dont see it that way.


Then what are Jagex stopping?


again we dont know what every bad stuff happens. the only reason we know of this guy is because hes openly discussed it and posted it. so to me it seems jagex do not see this as rigging. especially as they said its not riggable. :)


We do know what bad stuff is happening with the raffle though, so why turn a blind eye to it?

Action needs to be taken as it should for anything else that is significantly wrong such as raffle rigging.


think you misunderstood what i meant, if jagex are doing something. how do we know its to do with using 3k alts? or not something else?(aka something we dont know about) for one we know the person who did use 3k alts is still around. if they deem it punishable then im sure he would have been now. especially if they are going to make it impossible next time.

so no we dont know everything in regards to what happening with in raffle.

and again you use raffle rigging. when by looks of it the type you are saying is raffle rigging. jagex do no not see it that way. othewise action would have been taken by now. which it hasnt
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04-Jan-2019 20:45:39

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Name it whatever you want, it is still a significant problem.

I have stated in th past I believe there hasn't been punishment in the past as it brings significant revenue inflow in the past. As playrs became more aware and requested action to be taken before the raffle came out this year,
Jagex stated they made it harder to rig but stil haven't punished any players for this action.


All they need to do is warn players that if they attempt to abuse it, all their accounts wil have actions taken against them such as a ban.


and how do you know they meaning rigging. the same way you are using the term rigging.

as said now a few times. they havent banned or punished anyone. so it makes me think that they are okay with this type of game play towards the raffle. they dont see it as rigging
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04-Jan-2019 22:39:58 - Last edited on 04-Jan-2019 22:40:47 by Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:

....
He isn't out of context. And the raffle is still being rigged, at least according to the terms real definition. We want a change for fairness, and you can say you don't support a change if you want to, but you can't troll the thread to a lock just because you disagree with us.


Love how you humoured Toxicity by saying you agree that opinions are valid even if it's not the same as others, no matter how we wish to post. Yet you won't give our opinions any validity at all. We aren't allowed to suggest anything because you disagree with us. And you are seemingly the only one allowed to say how the raffle should be. When all we want is more fairness for the general public.


kind of ontopic?

to respond to the definition of rigging you posted. ill quote Matt Dilahunty as a response. "Words don't have intrinsic meaning. Words have usages."

i would like to go further into that but would be off topic. but nonetheless it is response to what you posted which is kind of ontopic

======

by all means post what you like, im allowed to not like them. i give my reasons for not liking them. dont be salty over the fact i can see the downsides in your idea. especially when your ideas dont make things more fair.

and yes i did thank toxicity. considering it was the way i posted that is being called upon as being valid. (as what is it you say? why do i post here? if i dont add anything to the topic?)

just because i dont go omh i love it support. i go actually no x y & z are reasons this wont work. you act out cause no everyone likes it.

thats how growth works how progress is made. constructive criticism. if you cant cope with that that is your issue. not mine. i welcome ideas all them. ive never once said to not post ideas.

this is the only off topic post ill humour from you. this is your first post after many being removed. and once again its about how i post. something you have just been told not to do.
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04-Jan-2019 23:39:48 - Last edited on 05-Jan-2019 00:32:15 by Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:
You don't explain why you desperately shut down everything we say. Your previous words were, "I'm not here to support anything"


you say you want a method that is all round fair and is more fairer than current method.

if i see that the method suggested is not fairer ill give those reasons for shutting it down is that how debate / working out best method goes?

im not going to support an idea that isnt more fair. ill explain how its not. which is what i did do.

so its not my fault everything you have said isnt more fair. i can see the faults so i speak out. cause id rather not have that in the game. i want a better game not a worse one.

you have a predetermined mind set that i dont support everything. which is untrue. i look for faults before agreeing. or i ask questions before agreeing. thats best way to be for a better future. instead of jumping on the first idea that comes


so can we now get back on topic? or do you want this discussion to be locked? considering youve had few warnings now about not talking about how people post. (literally page before this one) and you go straight away into talking about how i post. (what toxicity was referencing) it seems you want this thread locked


EDIT:
response to bellow post. as im not wanting to spam off topic. (but always need to respond if about me to defend myself)

1. you post my idea. and ask me to explain how i changed my mind on it? i dont quite understand.

2. all you are doing is talking about how im posting. so again read above....

3. im not sure what you are wanting an explanation of?

4. you say ive changed my mind on something and want an explanation. i dont see how thats relevant to being on topic. or help progress the topic. especially when youve just bought it up out of the blue. also see number 3 i dont know what ive changed my mind on to give an explantion on. especially as it holds no validity if i have or havent. whatever it is to
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04-Jan-2019 23:58:45 - Last edited on 05-Jan-2019 00:23:02 by Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Draco Burnz said:
Ironman Gup said:
Most of the community is unhappy with raffle rigging. If you truly believe there is no option to make raffle rigging better, why not poll it with the community?


Un not really.

Where do you get this info that most are upset about this?

From what ive seen on reddit and what not, most have seem to come to an acceptance of it as theres nothing that can be done w/o hurting legit players.

You still seem to be the lonely person that wants this in place.

Plus once again, your idea so you ask them.


If you went on reddit around September then you would know that everyone was against raffle rigging.

It is a reason why J-mods stated they will make it non-riggable. Poeple didnt want raffle rigging and I know you've seen the reddit threads as you have posted the links to complaining posts in the past


we have said this billion times now. what you call raffle rigging may not be the same as what someone else calls raffle rigging. which is why saying everyone is against raffle rigging is correct. but when it comes down to detailed explanation of what it is you dislike the numbers will change



also how are they even going to implement an alt cap? its great saying "lets do this" when this is impossible to do. there would many ways to get around this alt cap


imo just stop this raffle i dont think people would care if september came around it was replaced with something else.

if of course majority do care about people using alts. which i highly doubt
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06-Jan-2019 09:59:59 - Last edited on 06-Jan-2019 10:00:32 by Tenebri

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:

..


If you disagree with the wording then please just move on and dont use it yourself. I will continue to use it as Whatyousaytome has stated the definition which matches the actions of some.

Tenebri said:

also how are they even going to implement an alt cap? its great saying "lets do this" when this is impossible to do. there would many ways to get around this alt cap


If players are caught doing it, simple. Ban any account they use to raffle rig or play on.

Tenebri said:

imo just stop this raffle i dont think people would care if september came around it was replaced with something else.


That's another alternative, althoguh they should maybe make it possible to get the cosmetics elsewhere.


just ban the players doing it lmao so a hell of a lot of time and effort is going to go into jagex staff to prevent this?
youve just made this suggestion 10x worse. they have more important things to look out for. than someone wanting a golden barrows set and using an alt....


yes whats posted the meaning but as stated

Original message details are unavailable.
words don't have intrinsic meanings. they have usages


and to have a discussion. we need to use language we both agree on. thats very important otherwise we are talking about other things. its why i say "using alts" not rigging. using alts is what you are talking about. people are just going to see "rigging" and they will automatically assume the worse. which is dishonest on your part. and if you arent even willing to change that or come to comprimise on what we call this. its because you know you use "rigging" as a way of making it sound worse.


super rare drop from barrows. who cares its cosmetics.
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06-Jan-2019 10:31:39 - Last edited on 06-Jan-2019 10:39:27 by Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:
You can't accept that we use the literal definition of rigging as "rigging" and you simply assume Jagex can't do anything about alts. Which even if they can't, you refuse to explain how letting people earn extra tickets on their legitimate accounts is a bad idea. That's still more fair than only allowing people with alts to get extra tickets.

That's very close-minded on your part, and I haven't seen you actually discuss the suggestions with us.


no i understand the literal definition of rigging. what i dont accept is using alts is rigging. which is what you and iron are doing. which is wrong. please keep up.

people dont see using alts as rigging. which is why using the term rigging is not right choice of word. especially when new people come in to read. using the word rigging is already implying its wrong. if using the term "using alts" then its open for that person to think yes or no.

you dont see me discussing the topic? you should start from beginning and start reading my posts then.
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06-Jan-2019 18:27:49 - Last edited on 06-Jan-2019 18:29:39 by Tenebri

Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:
You disagree with us thinking alts is rigging?? That's what rigging is. He is disadvantaging literally every single person who doesn't use alts so his will win all deathtouched darts. That's rigging.

You still didn't comment on earning tickets being more fair.


ive been over this before. im not doing it again lmao. this has been answered and i believe you have commented on it. im not going to go in circles with you.


i didnt comment on earning tickets being more fair? what? english please or atleast a sentence that makes sense. i hope this isnt another attempt to go off topic and talk about how im posting the link bellow will take you to what i think you refereing to. as to why i didnt answer that poorly written question that makes no sense

Tenebri said:

...
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06-Jan-2019 18:38:06 - Last edited on 06-Jan-2019 18:45:17 by Tenebri

Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:
Yes, because you admitted before that you aren't here to suggest or support anything.

Well look back, you have a suggestion, and your suggestion is what I support. Yet you still don't agree with me, even though my idea is currently your idea.

And you won't support it. You keep arguing.


that is correct i didnt come here to suggest anything. i did come here to support something if it was worth supporting. i have said there is nothing here worth supporting which you may have taken out of context. but meh.

im also not here to discuss how i post or why i post (something you have been told by a few f mods to stop doing.... but here you are still doing it)

i did make a suggestion. as you were constantly talking about why am i here. you dont even suggest anything. so i did just for you. how nice am i?

i find it amusing the best idea to come from this thread is from me. well its sweet you like my idea so much you support it. i wasnt writing it because i want that as a change though (i guess i should have stated that, may confuse small minds) . i did it due to berating and to make you stop saying i was trolling as i dont add anything to the conversation. thats only reason why i did it. not because i came here to. i was here to share my opinion. which obviously is valid whether or not i add another method or not (which hopefully you have now learnt thanks to f mods) i share my opinions on the methods and ask questions about them (being on topic getting a better understanding. instead of just jumping to a support like you)

does this mean we are done talking about me now???? and can be on topic??? :D :D :D fingers crossed your weird obsession is over

you are correct why would i support something that wouldnt work? thats a question for you really. why do you support my idea? its impossible to actually implement an alt cap. so why do you support something so broken?
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06-Jan-2019 19:12:49 - Last edited on 06-Jan-2019 19:15:17 by Tenebri

Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:
Exactly. You made a suggestion because you felt pressured into it. Not because you plan on supporting anything. You are disagreeing with everything without any logical explanation.

Even your own idea, which if you remember, actually came from my post, you only expanded on it. You don't want to happen. You won't support even your own suggestions. So if you can't support anything, leave the thread for somebody who will. Stop replying like you feel forced to, I've said you can leave several times now.

We have a purpose for posting here, because we disagree with any one player having the ability to rig the event. And our suggestions can at least help to make something plausible happen. Regardless of one person disagreeing with us.

If you desperately shut everything down because you personally disagree with us, you aren't helping anything. And as I've said dozens of times, you can leave your non support as just that. You don't know any outcome from the changes we suggest, so don't act like you do. We have the right to keep making suggestions.

You can disagree, but you aren't always right. You don't have the right to say we are just plain wrong. And yes, a change can happen that is more fair, but nothing we say is more fair to you. That doesn't make us wrong. Just makes you a troll.

I just said, even if an alt cap is impossible, which it's not, what's wrong with earning tickets?


ive never said im right or wrong. all i do is ask questions to get a better understanding on why you want x to happen instead of z... if i see a flaw ill voice that too. which is what i do.

but i guess this answers my question all you want to do is discuss how i post not the actual topic.


nothing wrong with earning tickets? i never said there was. as much as you obsess over me. you dont actually read what i say. or you add stuff to suit yourself. like every women ive dated lmao
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06-Jan-2019 19:31:55 - Last edited on 06-Jan-2019 19:34:22 by Tenebri

Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:

I'm waiting to hear why earning shouldn't be allowed.



Tenebri said:


nothing wrong with earning tickets? i never said there was. as much as you obsess over me. you dont actually read what i say. or you add stuff to suit yourself. like every women ive dated lmao
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06-Jan-2019 19:37:03 - Last edited on 06-Jan-2019 19:39:06 by Tenebri

Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:
Great, you finally support a suggestion. And I made it. Great, now expand on it please.

What's good, or bad, about earning tickets?


i dont support the full idea poppet. nice try to twist it. its very dishonest to do that not way to go in a discussion

earning tickets will cause same issue we have now. except more people can "rig" the raffle (used your terminology for effect) by earning more. and also using their alts to earn more

right now the one guy you also obsess over increases the tickets by 6k tickets

with the use of earning tickets with over 1 million subscribers. its going to be hell of alot more than 6k more tickets bought into game. but am i against the idea of earning tickets? no why because it doesnt matter. the same way with keeping the raffle as it is. if it was to come sept and it was earning tickets. i wouldnt be like WHAT!!>!>! and raging. same with if sept comes and its still 2 tickets per account nothing has changed at all from 2k18. it wont matter . for the same reasons as to why this whole thread is meaningless as the raffle doesnt effect the game at all. which is what i have said countless times now. as to why im not supporting what is suggested or what has been suggested.

if sept comes around and there is a alt cap (they somehow worked out how to cap it) will i be like oh my god no!!!! of course not. same as the other 2 above.

youve taken everything i say and made it into something i havent said. the above post is brilliant at showing that dishonesty from you.

so do i support the idea no. do i care if it happens? no

you need to understand the difference of supporting something and being okay with something
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06-Jan-2019 19:41:31 - Last edited on 06-Jan-2019 19:47:43 by Tenebri

Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:
In case you aren't aware. RAFFLES ARE RANDOM.



At the moment, a select few people have significantly better odds, because they don't care what accounts win. They just want to win more. If the ticket pool was more diverse, others would have a more fair shot, instead of these select few having 6000:2 odds.

Random is better than rigged.


and earning tickets would create more people with increased better odds. instead of the few people using shit tons of alts.

the reason i talk about mass ticket increase. is due to the people being able to increase there chances significantly. to the people unable to earn as many tickets.

right now the chance hypothetically i dont know real number obviously. so im going to use easy numbers to work with

lets say now people using lots of alts increase theres by 5% of winning. everyone else is 3% (depending on amount of rewards that day)

with the chance of earning tickets (so more tickets in game)

the people able to hoard more due to game play the chances of all of these people added up with the amount of new tickets in game. will lower the chance of the people winning to less than 3% due to so many other players now on 4 or 5% mark hell probably be even more than that. due to reward pool being same. the ones that can earn more will take these items. with a few unable to earn getting lucky.

way it is now with alts. more casual players stand a chance
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06-Jan-2019 19:52:41 - Last edited on 06-Jan-2019 19:54:04 by Tenebri

Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:
No they don't. With earning tickets being allowed, they'd stand more of a chance, because the select few players bypassing with alts won't be earning tickets themselves.

They already have their bypass which takes significant time. They won't be earning much if at all. But the casual legitimate players will have better odds because they have the time to get theirs.

It's more tickets in game, on legitimate accounts. Not throwaways.


its simple maths it just wont work that way im sorry
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06-Jan-2019 20:13:19

Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:
Yes it's simple math. If we were all able to earn up to 10 tickets while he entered his 6k. We'd all have better odds than if we were only allowed the current 2.

Why is that a bad thing? Because it's more tickets in the pool? Like I said, all new tickets are on legitimate players' accounts.


re read what i said. its not about us earning tickets. its about giving unfair advantage to more people...

your comment holds nothing to what i just said
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06-Jan-2019 21:01:35

Tenebri

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Whatusaytome said:
You just don't want anybody else to have a way to earn higher odds for themselves, on the accounts they want.

I'm still waiting to hear how this access to 10 tickets instead of 2 is lowering their chances, but a single person with 6k isnt.


who said there was a limit of 10 tickets? either way im not

there are going to be people able to gain more tickets than others. again i say read above its explained there. if you fail to understand simple maths. this isnt a maths lesson im not your teacher.


Ironman Gup said:
We could look at keeping the ticket cap at 2 but to ban raffle riggers?


you mean people who use alts? thats not rigging it

so how do you go about banning people who use alts? is it done via ip? done via reporting them? how is this going to work?
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06-Jan-2019 23:07:14

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:
Whatusaytome said:
You just don't want anybody else to have a way to earn higher odds for themselves, on the accounts they want.

I'm still waiting to hear how this access to 10 tickets instead of 2 is lowering their chances, but a single person with 6k isnt.


who said there was a limit of 10 tickets? either way im not

there are going to be people able to gain more tickets than others. again i say read above its explained there. if you fail to understand simple maths. this isnt a maths lesson im not your teacher.


Ironman Gup said:
We could look at keeping the ticket cap at 2 but to ban raffle riggers?


you mean people who use alts? thats not rigging it

so how do you go about banning people who use alts? is it done via ip? done via reporting them? how is this going to work?


I dont mean people using their 1 or 2 alt accounts. I mean Raffle Riggers who use hundreds or thousands of accounts with the intention of diluting the reward pool that others can win from.

Since Jagex have aid they have a way to make it harder to raffle rig, you can ask how they currently track raffle riggers. Considering one of them has made a video with their usernames public, a good start woud he to remove all them.


so why hasnt this person already been banned? it seems jagex are fine with it.(like we have said countless times) if so why are we having this conversation.

but hell if jagex are saying they are working on getting rid of people who do what you are talking about. then again why are we having this discussion? it seems you have what you want they are doing something about it? no?
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07-Jan-2019 09:18:51

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:

so why hasnt this person already been banned? it seems jagex are fine with it.(like we have said countless times) if so why are we having this conversation.


I am saying the rules should be reviewed. If Jagex believes Raffle RIgging should be stopped (Which they stated they have done so) then they should also punish people attempting to break this.

Tenebri said:

but hell if jagex are saying they are working on getting rid of people who do what you are talking about. then again why are we having this discussion? it seems you have what you want they are doing something about it? no?


Because we are saying more should be done against raffle riggers and their accounts. Another issue is while we have been told raffle rigging has been stopped, there is no evidence of any action being done and no statements on how it was stopped.



awesome well i think everything that can be said has been said. we shall wait till september or when next raffle is
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07-Jan-2019 13:11:41

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Draco Burnz said:
Ironman Gup said:
Sounds good. I will continue to try and get Jagex to look into this as I believe we need to fix the problem before September.


Considering theres nothing to "fix" here.

I mean if ppl really wanted to they would rig the raffle even if jagex tried setting up a fool proof plan.


And if that happens we should be punishing the raffle riggers. A perma-ban would be a good deterrent for example.


and there are no raffle riggers so is hunky dory :L been almost a month with this being bumped to front page 100% time. no one commented. it seems no one cares... if they did theyd post here to support this
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03-Feb-2019 23:09:19

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:

and there are no raffle riggers so is hunky dory :L


A few days ago on reddit, the most well known raffle rigger posted an idea unrelated to the raffle. Most of the comments were about this persons raffle rigging actions in the past as well as rigging other events. The word 'rig' was used on numerous occasions.

Tenebri said:

been almost a month with this being bumped to front page 100% time. no one commented. it seems no one cares... if they did theyd post here to support this


There are 2 problems with this idea. The first one is forums are rarely used. The second one is this topic is popular to discuss around the raffle time of year, not 6 months after the raffle. More people will come as the raffle is closer.


All that shows is people think he rigs the raffle. Not that he actually does. Peoples opinion means fuck all. As stated rigging would be determined by the owner of said raffle aka jagex. All youve demonstrated is confirmation bias fallacy.

Im going to do what you usually do and go completely off topic with an over the top analogy for shits n giggles

Hitler was wrong we can agree on that. However there are forums out there agreeing with him. With your own logivlc of oh my god people posted on a forum or discussion thread saying he wasnt wrong. Means he wasnt in the wrong. See how confirmation bias works now?

Asked numerous times how its rigging and you never delivered at all. So still isnt rigging

As stated see what happens next raffle. Till then see no need for this thread
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04-Feb-2019 12:06:59

Tenebri

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Jamzi said:
Not sure what the problem is here. So there are a few people who have thousands of accounts, and he enters the raffle with all of them. So he would end up with an item on a random account.......... so what?

Sure it might mean I have a slightly less chance of getting an item, but who cares...?

If a person is happy with random items on random accounts... LOL, so be it :P


What the main thing is through out whole thread. Bit hes convinced himself wr9ng doing has happened. Its entertaining for a bit but gets boring after while
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04-Feb-2019 12:09:12

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:
Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:

and there are no raffle riggers so is hunky dory :L


A few days ago on reddit, the most well known raffle rigger posted an idea unrelated to the raffle. Most of the comments were about this persons raffle rigging actions in the past as well as rigging other events. The word 'rig' was used on numerous occasions.

Tenebri said:

been almost a month with this being bumped to front page 100% time. no one commented. it seems no one cares... if they did theyd post here to support this


There are 2 problems with this idea. The first one is forums are rarely used. The second one is this topic is popular to discuss around the raffle time of year, not 6 months after the raffle. More people will come as the raffle is closer.

...

Asked numerous times how its rigging and you never delivered at all. So still isnt rigging

As stated see what happens next raffle. Till then see no need for this thread


1) Majority of people dont think Hitler was right. Equally, most people dont support raffle rigging that has happened in the past.

2) I have delivered by stating the definition of rigging many times. You just don't agree with it


again you use term "majority" as if the majority makes a difference. thats confirmation bias. ad populum fallacy.

2. no i agree with definition of the term rigging. but using it in terms of what has happened in the raffle is misleading and wrong.
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04-Feb-2019 13:13:42

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Agree to disagree then. We can both keep having confirmation bias and populum fallacy or we can move on from our differences.

As I have asked before, if you disagree with the term 'raffle rigging' then you do not have to use it yourself. Equally, I ask that you do not tell others to stop using it if they wish to do so.

You have said this forum thread will achieve nothing (i.e. get no support etc). If that is the case, you are best to ignore it as nothing will come out of it.


i dont use that term, id be lying to myself if i did. when i do i make out why im using that term i think i did it twice/

im happy to post where ever even if i think it wont do anything. you cant silence me that easily :)
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05-Feb-2019 19:26:03

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:

im happy to post where ever even if i think it wont do anything. you cant silence me that easily :)


Despite saying in the past that you wouldn't post here, you are welcome to post here. I just ask that you stop asking people to not use the term 'raffle rigging' as there are more important things to discuss about the issue


isnt that the discussion though. and to have a discussion we need to use terms we both accept mean same thing.
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08-Feb-2019 20:27:15 - Last edited on 08-Feb-2019 20:28:31 by Tenebri

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:

isnt that the discussion though. and to have a discussion we need to use terms we both accept mean same thing.


I see it as raffle rigging and I see it as a problem. You may disagree and thats fine, but focus on arguing why 'using alternate accounts to intentionally dilute the reward pool for others' is acceptable rather than the specific wording others use.


It wasnt off topic its discussing termonology used. Very important in a discussion youvr made a claim "its raffle rigging" ive asked for clarification on this. All you do is post meaning of rigging. Which doesnt prove anything to this subject just meaning to rigging. So until you prove this claim you have made. I will always respond its not rigging as it hasnt met burden of proof yet otherwise.

Yes we are all aware you see it as raffle rigging. But who cares. You dont care that i dont see it as raffle rigging. You are triggered over this and i find it amusing you cant give reasonable logical arguments. Its always crying over your own feelingss that you see it as bad.
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10-Feb-2019 11:56:32 - Last edited on 10-Feb-2019 12:02:22 by Tenebri

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
I noticed on reddit one of the main perpetrators of raffle rigging didn't want deathtouch darts on TH.

I guess he was worried he couldnt dilute the reward pool for that lmao


I agree witg them dt darts shouldnt be on th. I dont think its about the "reward pool" when dt darts are obtainable else where anyway.... youve shot an arrow and painted the target afterwards
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12-Feb-2019 13:51:26

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:
Ironman Gup said:
I noticed on reddit one of the main perpetrators of raffle rigging didn't want deathtouch darts on TH.

I guess he was worried he couldnt dilute the reward pool for that lmao


I agree witg them dt darts shouldnt be on th. I dont think its about the "reward pool" when dt darts are obtainable else where anyway.... youve shot an arrow and painted the target afterwards


Using your logic, why shouldnt't DT darts be obtainable on TH? They are untradeable and obtainable via Travelling Merchant or raffle.

I think them being on Th is more ethical as everyone has the same chance of winning, and 1 person cant rig it to improve their chances whilst simultaneously lowering the chance of others.


ive never liked them in first place i dont like them being in merch or a raffle prize. why would i want them in another place?

i dont know why you started with "using your logic" then just asked a question made no real sense what does using my logic mean?

but no has nothing to do with them being untradeable etc. its what the dt darts are.

everyone has same chance of winning in raffle with your logic too then. more people could buy more keys (like using more accounts for raffle) except with them being on th it will effect one account to be able to get 0kc pets and titles. which is rare to happen with them being in raffle
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15-Feb-2019 21:32:47

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:

everyone has same chance of winning in raffle with your logic too then. more people could buy more keys (like using more accounts for raffle) except with them being on th it will effect one account to be able to get 0kc pets and titles. which is rare to happen with them being in raffle



The problem I have is when you rig the raffle, you lower others chances of winning prizes. This doesnt happen with TH.

That is why I have asked in the past for a fixed chance of winning regardless of participants. You have been against that idea.


Then its just another form of th
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16-Feb-2019 14:08:08

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:
Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:

everyone has same chance of winning in raffle with your logic too then. more people could buy more keys (like using more accounts for raffle) except with them being on th it will effect one account to be able to get 0kc pets and titles. which is rare to happen with them being in raffle



The problem I have is when you rig the raffle, you lower others chances of winning prizes. This doesnt happen with TH.

That is why I have asked in the past for a fixed chance of winning regardless of participants. You have been against that idea.


Then its just another form of th


And?

You can increase the odds of winning your prize by using more tickets on a specific prize. There will also be no side effect of raffle riggers intentionally diluting the reward pool for others.


increased chance of winning, makes that item which is already priceless, worth less. by it having a chance for everyone to own. thats not the point of these golden items etc

the raffle itself is also not th. if its just another form of th.... yaaaay another form of th something people hate already

you are wanting more th?

you keep accusing these "riggers" by diluting pool on purpose. so no one else can have them and it amuses me you care so much about these "riggers" and these items. to have so much hate. i wouldnt say they do it to dilute the reward pool. and they sit ther elike "mwuahaahahahaha these pesky scapers cant get these golden outfits. they ALL MINE MINE I TELLS YOU!!!"

you are creating a villian over curiosity. when the account you talk about does it for a lot of things in regards to th also when there is no reward pool.

i thought you said he didnt like this
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17-Feb-2019 13:59:01 - Last edited on 17-Feb-2019 14:02:12 by Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
He done it for money. This helps funds membership


it just needed to stop there

quote you then supplied had nothing to do with raffle rigging. that was your own assumption to the situation.

Ironman Gup said:
They have made videos of them destroying golden barrows sets back when they were not claimable. They were trying to win them with the sole intention of diluting the reward pool for others


yes because it would get views. after winning it why does it matter if its get destroyed? its not like anyone else can now have it. the reward pool is now empty..... its been awarded to someone.

this doesnt prove he is doing to dilute the reward pool at all.

i could make a video destroying one because its filling up bank, not because i purposely diluted it.


again i said you have fired an arrow and painted the target afterwards. meaning n matter what you see youll make it fit this bias. and its now to such extent its tempting to go say seek help



and also because of that there is nothing left to say as you are so set in your own beliefs in this. all youve proved is you think this. nothing more

enjoy the thread in silence for a month again while you bump as really no one cares
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18-Feb-2019 09:47:32

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:


again i said you have fired an arrow and painted the target afterwards. meaning n matter what you see youll make it fit this bias. and its now to such extent its tempting to go say seek help




If you have genuine concerns about someones mental health, you would be better advising Jagex than trolling them or arguing with them on forums.

If you dont have those concerns, you shouldn't joke about it.


im not making jokes. i do lighten the seriousness with humour though.

but this is off topic.

my last post stands though. bye just wanted to clarify
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18-Feb-2019 23:48:18

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
If you think mental illness is a joking matter then you are better not to post here.


no im not at all i suffer from it greatly. i use humour to bypass the seriousness in which it has effected me.

you are trying to create an issue thats no even there.

i said my peace on the matter.

Ironman Gup said:
It is not warranted, all this thread is about is that raffle riggers deserve to be punished ingame.


and you have yet shown how these people are rigging. as stated before all youve done is say they are and show a dictionary definition. you havent given any reason as to why they should be banned. weve been over this for 45 pages and nothing changes

it falls down to this your own obsession / opinion
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23-Feb-2019 10:42:56 - Last edited on 23-Feb-2019 11:29:03 by Tenebri

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:

In part because it is a form of trolling players?

They are intentionally ruining an event for other legitimate players


you have not once proven or shown they are doing with intent of ruining for other players

as said they arent there going "muahahaha pesky scapers wont get these golden items they are mine!!!!!"

where is your proof they are doing it for this reason? if you can prove that then sure ban them. as ive said before. but you cant you just keep saying they are doing it for this reason. with out anything.
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24-Feb-2019 20:19:53

Tenebri

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example 1: if the "fun of it" is to piss people off then yes ban him. id say its rigging

example 2: if the "thats why i destroyed them" was to get people mad, it was to with what happened after the raffle when he realised everyone was mad at him to then spike another reaction.

if its i destroyed them with intent of destroying them before i had the items. then sure the intent was there to as you say "dilute the reward pool"

example 3: okay? this a pointless example you give

example 4: again same as 3. its already happened and he cant do anything to change what has happened.


the issue i have with these examples as great as they are..... lol

is that they dont answer the question provided. how did the person you are talking about rig the raffle. you have said that is what he is. how did he do it?

all youve given are hypothetical examples that are lovely but hold no relevance to what i asked

youve given examples as to what you think a raffle rigger reaction is to people. which doesnt get you any closer to showing how the person you are talking about intention to the raffle

example 5

player a: im so mad at this raffle rigger im going to make a thread cause im so triggered
the accused: that wasnt my intention my reasoning for this was x (x being his actual reasoning)


again youve made huge assumption and added the bias that the person doing it is already guilty. by adding the name "raffle rigger"

all youve done further is show how closed minded you have become to this.
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25-Feb-2019 09:51:08 - Last edited on 25-Feb-2019 09:54:07 by Tenebri

Tenebri

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hypothetical examples is not evidence for what you are fighting for. the fact you went and put this much effort in it shows this is the best you have? seriously? with the accusation you have made, this is the best? it holds no relevance to what is going on now in this reality. as examples arent our realilty

example 6

player a: im going to make thread showing anger toward someone with alot of alt who played the raffle

that accused: hehe its actually me im player a

see how little that helps. now you are the accused of being the raffle rigger, with exactly the same amount of evidence you provided.

examples lead no where

each one of your example already had the bias of intent to piss people off. you cant add that when you dont know the intent. unless you the person

are you?
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25-Feb-2019 09:55:12

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
.



As for the other accusations which you have posted, they will not be tolerated here. I do not rig the raffle and highly discourage anyone to. Given this isnt the only time you have done stints like this, I ask you stop posting on this thread.



I wasnt actually making that accusation that you are rigging. You cant be this stupid.... i was using it as an example to show that your examples get you nowhwere closer to showing he is a rigger... if i can do the same saying you are one.... this just shows how obsessed you are with this. Unbelievable

You are impossible.

And you cant tell me not to post yet again if ive done anything please report me. And mods can remove.
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26-Feb-2019 13:52:53

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
You made it up and were implying that I was a raffle rigger.


... ive already explained this. i wasnt accusing you of being the rigger... i was using it as an example to show how your examples get you nowhere closer to proving he is.


jesus

noway of getting through to you. completely closed off will read whatever it is you wish to read.

i asked you to show how this person is raffle rigging. you gave me examples that got nowhere closer

i then also used an example to show how they dont work. you took it at as an accusation against you. as you were so offended of the thought that someone thought you were rigging thats where you went to straight away. even after explaining its not an accusation. i dont think you are rigging it yourself. you still cant get past that.

you choose to be this triggered by this. ive been stupid enough to feed it
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27-Feb-2019 08:09:25 - Last edited on 27-Feb-2019 08:19:45 by Tenebri

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
I was using real quotes from the public and the most infamous raffle rigger, while you made false quotes to deliberately imply that I was a raffle rigger.


And as stated they hold no relevance to show he is a rigger at all. Just like my example. Which you still fail to see why i said it. Even after explaining many times now

Enjoy your delusion
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01-Mar-2019 09:38:56

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
We have?

In past raffles, people are abusing it by raffle rigging with thousands of accounts with the intention of diluting the reward pool and upsetting people.


yes you have said this a billion times. ive always responded explain how thats rigging it. because its not rigging the raffle. youve tried to explained with silly examples of quotes but that doesnt get you closer to how this is rigging. so what he said lol after someone asked him a question.. you are just too butthurt

so yes we have definitely discussed it many times. you cant give actual reasoning to say its rigging.

its just someone using more alts than anyone else. so fucking what
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08-Mar-2019 19:38:53 - Last edited on 08-Mar-2019 19:40:45 by Tenebri

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Tenebri said:

its just someone using more alts than anyone else. so fucking what


So we should limit the amount of alts an individual person can use so legitimate players can benefit from the rewards.

It is a disgrace when a troll goes around deliberately upsetting others by diluting the reward pool, and it should be stopped. I have given many examples that it is raffle rigging and you deliberately ignore the evidence like an anti-vaccer ignores real scientific evidence that vaccines don't cause autism to get your way.


so many accusations so little evidence
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08-Mar-2019 20:41:06

Tenebri

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Ironman Gup said:
Action should be taken against raffle riggers


i agree. but so far no one has been shown to be a raffle rigger. just accusation of one. innocent until proven guilty

Ironman Gup said:
Given your past and present trolling,


how is this trolling? its a valid statement on the topic
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10-Mar-2019 16:54:43 - Last edited on 10-Mar-2019 16:57:17 by Tenebri

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