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Tierscape corrections/rework

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Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Posts: 1,200Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hi. The new smithing gear breaks tiers.

The Orikalkum gear + 3 requires level 60 in the related stat, yet has T63 equipment bonuses.
This makes dragon weapons and obsidian weapons inferior and redundant.

The simple solution is to make this equipment require stats directly relating to its equipment bonuses, for example, making Orikalkum + 3 require level 63 in the relevant stat.
This will fill niches, while maintaining superiority above its previous T60 slot (without competing due to identical stat requirements).

Necronium + 4 requires 70 in the relevant stat, yet has T74 equipment bonuses.
Same deal. Make all of the smithing gear require stats directly related to their bonuses.
T74 is a new niche, it works out perfectly. It's notable that Necronium is unusual to degrade as "non-special" sub T75 gear. Make it so that Necronium doesn't degrade (in-line with other gear of a similar tier).

As there are many tiers that are overloaded with gear, a suggestion was made by Rikornak, that some items should have their tiers and stats altered slightly, to reduce redundancy and to fill niches.

Some examples:
Obsidian gear (throwing rings, staff, mace, maul, shield) increased to T65
God staves to T65
Superior dragon weapons to T73
GWD1 Godswords to T77
Godbows to T77
(more suggestions can be read on page 6)

Allow staves to be fletched out of logs. (Rikornak's idea). This will complete the staff tiering.
For example, you could fletch a "Magic staff" (T50) out of magic logs. This would be F2P.
Also, allow the "shieldbow sight" to be attached, along with a mystic shield, to create the "Magic Shield-Staff (sighted)", which is t55, just like the magic shield-bow (sighted) - my idea.
The New Wild (instanced) <---------> Enhancing Combat and PVP <----- UPDATED to include
Removing RNG from PVP

27-Jan-2019 09:33:32 - Last edited on 23-Apr-2019 01:36:42 by Stoic n Vain

Rikornak
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 5,475Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
For some items it just would be better to increase their base stats. Even if you could upgrade your dragon or obsidian weapons - why should you wear them over orikalkum? I basically just see a more expensive weapon which at most achieves parity. If you like the styles - there are keepsake keys for that.

Dragon armour is power armour and as such vastly superior over orikalkum. Orikalkum just is the choice for players not having access to anything else.

I am personally not really sure what to do with dragon weapons, but obsidian could easily plainly buffed to t65 in order to occupy an entirely new niche. It's still nothing everyone would get, but it is a viable choice for a min-maxer that way. Godswords could easily be buffed to t77 to occupy a new niche over all the other t75 competitors - and so on.

Maybe a thought for dragon weapons: Allow the dragon hilt to upgrade all dragon weapons, increase the boost to t73. The weapon and hilt still will permanentely be removed from the economy, but can be augmented, disassembled or alched.
Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

27-Jan-2019 09:39:53 - Last edited on 27-Jan-2019 10:05:13 by Rikornak

Clone11117
Apr Member 2019

Clone11117

Posts: 657Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
wait does t 60 orichalcum weps have ther own special atts?.


if anything dragon armor should still have some use due to its change into t60 power armor.

and dragon weps should still have there use for their specials... I think?...
Silent Insanity...

27-Jan-2019 09:55:30

Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Posts: 1,200Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
< Removed this post to make way for my original post, in case anyone wanted to read it.

"Hello.

Part of the reason why the M&S rework was created was to improve weapon diversity.
In some cases, this is true. In other cases, it has done the opposite.

New weapons and armour can be made with the new bars which have slightly higher tier stats than the requirements to wield them. I'm ok with this. What I'm not ok with is the fact that only the new weapons/armour have this benefit.


Let's take tier 60 to make an example. "Orikalkum +3"

Orikalkum +3 is the new BIS gear for T60, because it has the stats of T63 while only requiring T60 in the attack or defence stat.

This means that the Orikalkum 2h warhammer + 3, Orikalkum warhammer +3, Orikalkum off-hand warhammer +3 and Orikalkum armour set +3 is the best stuff to use for T60.

It outclasses all of the other T60 melee stuff.
Dragon armour.
Dragon weapons.
Tzhaar-ket-om.
ETC.

So why would you use these anymore, since now they're inferior?

We should be able to upgrade all weapons and armour in the same way, so that weapon diversity remains. Each T60 item would take the same amount of Orikalkum bars as the Orikalkum weapons and armour eg - a Tzhaar-ket-om would require 28 Orikalkum bars to become a "Tzhaar-ket-om +3".

I'm not suggesting that they must change in looks as they are upgraded, like the current new weapons/armours do. That'd take too much dev time. I just don't want everything to be outdated due to the M&S update."

In the process of developing a simpler solution, collaborating with other players.
The New Wild (instanced) <---------> Enhancing Combat and PVP <----- UPDATED to include
Removing RNG from PVP

27-Jan-2019 14:17:15 - Last edited on 03-Mar-2019 01:58:24 by Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Posts: 1,200Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Original message details are unavailable.
Original message details are unavailable.
Part of the reason why the M&S rework was created was to improve weapon diversity.

It actually wasn't, Jmod clarified that in a recent stream iirc.
Must've missed that one. An older M&S rework vid that I watched stated that they were improving it by adding "passive effects" to each weapon type - introduced with the M&S rework, which obviously... didn't happen. Hopefully the idea hasn't been abandoned, just still being refined.

Thanks for the response
The New Wild (instanced) <---------> Enhancing Combat and PVP <----- UPDATED to include
Removing RNG from PVP

27-Jan-2019 14:22:21 - Last edited on 27-Jan-2019 14:24:11 by Stoic n Vain

Jennette
Jun Gold Premier Club Member 2013

Jennette

Posts: 1,341Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
It was probably just the first part of M&S, but yes I kind of agree that the new weapon choices are not very diverse they relate themselves to existing weapons in that level class. Examples: Orikalkum's 2h weapon is a maul/mace which relates to the obby maul/mace, Necronium's 2h weapon is a greataxe that relates to the barrows greataxe. Actually the greataxe and maul from smithing is better than the greataxe and maul from pvm. which it seems like it should be the other way around, because elder rune +5 2h is still worse than a nox scythe.

Some dragon weapons can be upgraded to tier 70, daggers, claws, longswords and maces. This makes them more effect special weapons but they still aren't the best choice. The orikalkum +3 hammers are still better than dragon weapons upgraded to t70.

Dragon armor being power armor now is pretty neat, I hope we will be able to upgrade and augment it in the future. I think it should also have an hp/prayer bonus. So that it is like nex/ultimate class armor instead of either tank or dps options.

Maybe we could combine a set of dragon rider armor with dragon armor for an upgraded version?
Lost Coconuts.
-
Lost Coconuts in a Paradise Lost, monkeys and pirates welcome.

28-Jan-2019 01:19:51 - Last edited on 28-Jan-2019 01:30:03 by Jennette

Stoic n Vain

Stoic n Vain

Posts: 1,200Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Yeah, I think that PVE gear should be better than smithable gear, unless they are combined, like masterwork. - which is why I suggested that PVE gear could be upgraded using bars.

Sure, combining armours is already a thing - let's continue the trend.

Yeah, it is weird that the new smithable t50-t70 are all superior to PVE drops, yet t80 and t90 are both inferior. Good point. They only got the high tiers correct, but not the lower ones I guess...

Keep it consistent O_o
Perhaps there is a reason, I hope they can confirm why this is the case.
The New Wild (instanced) <---------> Enhancing Combat and PVP <----- UPDATED to include
Removing RNG from PVP

29-Jan-2019 03:13:54

Rikornak
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 5,475Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Original message details are unavailable.
Yeah, I think that PVE gear should be better than smithable gear, unless they are combined, like masterwork. - which is why I suggested that PVE gear could be upgraded using bars.

Sure, combining armours is already a thing - let's continue the trend.

Yeah, it is weird that the new smithable t50-t70 are all superior to PVE drops, yet t80 and t90 are both inferior. Good point. They only got the high tiers correct, but not the lower ones I guess...

Keep it consistent O_o
Perhaps there is a reason, I hope they can confirm why this is the case.


Compare necrite to barrows: It's lacking a passive effect, which still might make the latter more suitable for min-maxing - even though I am sure most just will grab necrite, since it's simply cheaper. And well - orikalkum doesn't compete with anything anyway - there is no other t60 melee tank armour.

Staying at barrows I think a fix might be giving it (and all other t70+ tank armour) an health bonus as well. And maybe allowing players to create a set of superior barrows armour at t80 by combining a full set of +4 necrite with a full set of barrows armour.

The +x system for random other items just isn't justified to implement, since most players just will go the way of least resistence if it comes to equality for equipment. Just buff a few of those things into niches, that aren't occupied yet (or they just would be more fitting to be included in in terms of effort). Maybe change the equipment type of some other items (i.e. converting certain tank armours to power)
Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

29-Jan-2019 06:26:28

Jennette
Jun Gold Premier Club Member 2013

Jennette

Posts: 1,341Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Superior barrows sounds neat, But remember it is only a weapon, top, legs and helm set, Smithing sets consist of a helm, top, legs and shield. Maybe an option to make a t5 necronium bar out of the t4 armor pieces that can then be used to upgrade barrows t70 to t80?

Dragon armor should totally be like nex gear class whatever that is. It could have def/hp/prayer bonus's. Then we need a way to upgrade it to t70 so the look can be updated and then we could augment it hopefully.


Dragon and barrows weapons need buffs or smithing weapons need nerfs.
Lost Coconuts.
-
Lost Coconuts in a Paradise Lost, monkeys and pirates welcome.

29-Jan-2019 10:38:44 - Last edited on 29-Jan-2019 10:39:37 by Jennette

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