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M&S DOA?

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Matchgirl42
Jul Gold Premier Club Member 2011

Matchgirl42

Posts: 477Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
~Matchgirl42 goes investigatin': profit from an elder+5 platebody from start to finish.~

~Part 2: Smithing~

smithing level: 100

equipment: smithing cape+hood, varrock armour lvl 4, smelting gauntlets

~smelting~

10 minutes to smelt both the rune bars and then the elder rune bars

output:
18 rune bars (instasell 3566 each)(64,188gp)
164 elder rune bars (instasell 13,499 each)(2,213,836gp)
13 luminite (instasell 1224 each)(15,912gp)
14 runite (instasell 1646 each)(23,044gp)
15 light animica (instasell 4915 each)(73,725gp)
15 dark animica (instasell 4866 each)(72,990gp)
total gp value from geodes: 135,330gp

Total value after smelting: 2,599,025 (huh)

~smithing~

35 minutes to smith elder rune+5 platebody

output after smithing complete:

18 rune bars (instasell 3566 each)(64,188gp)
6 elder rune bars (instasell 13,499 each)(80,994gp)
13 luminite (instasell 1224 each)(15,912gp)
14 runite (instasell 1646 each)(23,044gp)
15 light animica (instasell 4915 each)(73,725gp)
15 dark animica (instasell 4866 each)(72,990gp)
1 elder+5 rune platebody (high alch 1,600,000gp)
total gp value from geodes: 135,330gp

Total value after smithing: 2,066,183

20-Jan-2019 05:35:48

Matchgirl42
Jul Gold Premier Club Member 2011

Matchgirl42

Posts: 477Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
~Matchgirl42 goes investigatin': profit from an elder+5 platebody from start to finish.~

~Part 3: final results!~

Total time mining+opening geodes: 1hr, 43 mins
profit/hr from mining: 1,257,682gp

Total time mining+smelting+opening geodes: 1hr, 53 mins
profit/hr from mining+smelting: 1,380,013gp

Total time, start to finish of elder+5 platebody: 2hrs 28 mins
Profit/hr: 837,642gp

Looks like the highest profit is mining+smelting, however, that's not much more than what I was getting pre-rework mining+smelting rune bars. A difference of about 180k/hr. Elder rune is tier 80/85; rune is and always has been tier 50. The rate difference should be much higher than that. I mean, I suppose technically this is more profitable after the rework, but certainly not by much. And that's assuming elder rune bar street price doesn't tank further; with only a 10k/bar alch value, it would be 2,025,189 total after smelting, or 1,075,322/hr - a loss of about 125k/hr profit from pre-rework rune mining+smelting.

Keep in mind also that this was just one trip of 160 total of each ore. Those numbers probably will fall on longer trips (I was using porters+the ore box, that's a total of around 680 ore per trip, but the cost of the porters reduce profit/hr), and doesn't account for distractions, power/internet outages, etc. The real profit/hr is probably somewhere between my original guesstimated rate and the ones listed above.

I might in the future track it for the entire 12 hours(over 2-3 days) that was the basis for my original guesstimation, but for now I'm going back to crafting combination runes which even with the above figures has a much higher profit/hr rate.

I encourage everyone to track their rates as well, to see what you're actually getting vs what you think you're getting. Make sure to subtract the cost of any consumables. And track your xp rates as well. Feel free to post your numbers in this thread if you'd like.

20-Jan-2019 05:51:06 - Last edited on 20-Jan-2019 05:56:26 by Matchgirl42

Mini JIT
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2014

Mini JIT

Posts: 964Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Your figures still don't make sense to me, first you only compered mining rune pre update then to mining animica and claimed you only make 566k ph. later you changed it to about 1.2m which makes more sense.

The alching of a elder5 plate was just a example because pre update to make that money I would have to run around mine around 126 rune ores and 1k coal then smelt and smith into 42 rune 2h. and still hardly get any xp from doing so.

If you want to show real figures for mining and smelting pre update then you also need to time in how long it took you to mine the coal and not just the rune. You showed figures for mining lumite post update.

If all you was doing pre update was mining and selling rune ore with costly porters during vos and now mining and selling animaca with ore box during vos you should be making more money and gaining way more xp.

2 more tips: save the gems from geodes for near dxp weekend as price might go up due to gem rocks being so much harder to mine and when smelting the smithing outfit upgraded helm helps loads as you can get free extra bars (but not the masterwork bars after last week)

I think you got unlucky on your geodes with not a single dragonstone, I get arounds 5 every inventory I open, 5 effegies so far, 3 sets of onyx dust, 2 of them coins and loads of masterwork bars and dragon items. (I do use gem finding scrim).

20-Jan-2019 17:12:12

Mini JIT
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2014

Mini JIT

Posts: 964Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Jagex will always keep pvm as best money making but this update is a nice balance between money and xp. Yes you might make more money with combi runes but how much xp ph do you get?

20-Jan-2019 17:16:37

Matchgirl42
Jul Gold Premier Club Member 2011

Matchgirl42

Posts: 477Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The 566k/hr rate came from this guesstimation calculation: 4-6 hrs per day, 2-3 days to mine and smelt 680 elder rune bars. (That's mining every ore, using 20-charge porters (540 ore each trip) plus the elder rune ore box (another 140 ore each trip) (for a total of 680 of each type of ore). 4-6 hrs/day over 2-3 days is roughly 12 hours; at the alch value (10k per bar), that's 6.8 million over 12 hours, which is 566k/hr.

That was the guesstimation, at the alch value level. Right now the bars are worth more than that, but probably not for much longer. They usually settle at just under the alch value, because as I've noted before, alchers provide a big part of the demand for M&S items, and they won't buy it at or higher than the alch value, because they'll lose money. So it's a near certainty that the M&S prices are going to sink further than they already have.

The real profit/hr rate, as I said, is probably somewhere between the 566k/hr and the figures from the 160 bar investigation above. This is because, to get that rate, I was clicking every rockertunity immediately, and hyper-focused. Over longer times, it's natural to get distracted, and to not click a rockertunity right away. And I have noticed that, if you don't click a rockertunity, after a few seconds your mining rate drops - goes from a solid swing every 4.5 ticks to what it used to be, where your character pauses to wipe their forehead. There's also breaks in there, and power/internet outages (something we are prone to in my house, I'm afraid), and real life distractions, like someone needing to talk to you about something, not to mention chatting with the other players nearby and getting distracted that way. And when you AFK gather, you're gonna get distracted, it's only a matter of when and how. All of those things affects your profit/hr rate.

By contrast, crafting combo runes, I can easily make 4m/hr. If I really work at it, I can get up near 8m/hr.

21-Jan-2019 00:25:01

Matchgirl42
Jul Gold Premier Club Member 2011

Matchgirl42

Posts: 477Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Prior to the update, rune bars were about 13.5k each street price; and I would usually find a good spot (such as the mining guild resource dungeon, clan trahaearn, or the keldagrim north mine) and use world-hopping to mine the runite. And then usually mine coal in clain trahaearn. Over the same time period - 4-6 hrs/day, 2-3 days - I would get enough runite and coal ores to make over 1k rune bars, and smelt them at the Edgeville furnace (which at the time was the closest furnace to a bank). Which worked out to about 1.2 mill/hr.

21-Jan-2019 00:40:13

Matchgirl42
Jul Gold Premier Club Member 2011

Matchgirl42

Posts: 477Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Also: I don't get why everyone's like "pvm should have the best rates because it takes the most effort" because...that is not true. There are a number of pvm scenarios, most of them high paying, that are basically AFKable. Seriously, google "Runescape pvm AFKable" and you'll see what I mean. Whereas there are money-making skilling methods that are very effort intensive. (Runecrafting being one of them.)

And honestly I don't know why I haven't had better luck with geodes. I am wearing a LOTD after all. *shrug* Whenever I take a break from crafting combo runes, I run a few treasure trails; as soon as I get another 50 fortunate components, the next thing on my list to make is a GOTE, so that I'll have access to Seren spirits which should hopefully up my profit level.

(But honestly, that I would have to spend that much time to get a GOTE in order to make M&S decently profitable - and remember, a GOTE on the GE is about 35 million right now - is ludicrous. M&S should be decently profitable on it's own. The only reason mining and smelting ended up being more profitable than mining alone in the above numbers is because I have varrock armor 4 unlocked. You shouldn't have to jump through hoops and buy a bunch of stuff in order to make a method profitable. That's ridiculous.)

As far as xp goes, that's not a concern/priority for me right now. The only skills I don't have a 99 in currently are all above lvl 90; and mining, smithing and runecrafting are all skills I have at least 99 in. My greater priority right now is to make money, to get bonds to buy a premiere membership before they go off sale. I'm disabled with no income, so making money in game is how I remain a member and maintain access to member content. And premiere club is the cheapest way to get a year's membership - 20 bonds for gold vs 28 bonds for 1 year (each bond = 2 weeks of membership).

21-Jan-2019 08:56:38

Mini JIT
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2014

Mini JIT

Posts: 964Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
All I am saying is I don't understand why people think mining/ smithing should be the best (non combat) money maker in the game. Again as a iron account I don't know what all the prices are so this is just a example, how many sail fish can you catch a hour and how much do they sell for, how many elder logs can you cut a hour and how much do they sell for, how much divine energy can you collect a hour and how much does it sell for. Farming herbs can also be added to the list but because of the growing times its harder to work out.

As gathering skills they should all be around the same xp and gp per hour but they not and that's why the game is broken. Jagex removes metal drops from pvm but they don't remove logs/herbs/food how is that fair.

The problem with making something very profitable is that everyone will be doing it and it will have a reverse effect. Yes jagex can make alch prices 100m gp ph from smith items if they wanted, but at the same time that 100m gp will be worthless. I will use you as a example (nothing wrong with what you do) you use gp to buy bonds to pay for membership but the thing is another player (not jagex) is selling those bonds because they want gp, if the same player can make 100m from skilling then they will no longer need the money from bonds and you will no longer be able to buy them.

Yes I know daily challenges and bots also have a effect on items entering and leaving the game.

21-Jan-2019 14:01:17

Fox Totem
Aug Gold Premier Club Member 2016

Fox Totem

Posts: 1,663Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
All the old ways I used to make gp are getting less and less profitable. I do not want to boss all the time so I am hoping that this rework will pay better as the hype dies down. It is too new and busy right now. Perhaps profit will increase as things balance out. So I will try to wait before deciding.

In the meantime, as much as I miss some of the old way of doing things, I do like this update so far. I am wondering if they will add this plus armour making to crafting.
The point of the journey is not to arrive.

21-Jan-2019 17:09:05

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