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RE: State of Game Updates

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Blackwing
Nov Member 2012

Blackwing

Posts: 40,837Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Since the discussion kinda ended abruptly for no reason, I thought to continue it because it's not been discussed in greater detail for a while, so it seems to be forgotten about:


Original message details are unavailable.
Honestly the fact you expect content almost every week or month going by nearly every first point you get on these is almost unbelievable. I don't even think the best of the best in the industry could satisfy your demands.

If you think weekly new content for Runescape is "unbelieveable", you're either an old-timer who has forgotten how things used to be (or who refuses to remember for the sake of wanting to be positive about the current state of the updates), or a new player who doesn't know about the past, because the fact is that Jagex used to, for years upon years, deliver almost weekly new content. It was no coincidence that said trend changed to the current "delivering ever less new content" when MTX were introduced to the game, because it allowed Jagex to grow lazier and rely on milking the existing addicted player for increased ARPPU rather than continuing to attract new players and relying on more people paying the same price (and thus keeping the value proposition at a healthy level).

Plus, it was Jagex who claimed that adding MTX to the game would increase the amount of actual game updates, which thusly would have made them pretty much deliver new content every single week, or at least more often than before. Yet the exact opposite happened: we're now 5 weeks in a row without new content, and prior to fossil island update, we had several months of patch weeks between it and ED3. Fossil island was a big update to be sure, but it wasn't worth all those patch weeks at all, the patch weeks were simply too many in number, and that same trend has begun post-fossil island once again.
"These ghastly beasts CAN be slain! They CAN be overcome!" -Borch Three Jackdaws

12-Aug-2019 15:15:20

Blackwing
Nov Member 2012

Blackwing

Posts: 40,837Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Still, let's be practical here: if Jagex cannot deliver almost weekly new content, that's fine, because they have the alternative option of toning down the monetization of the game. Because if you cannot deliver even the same level of delivery as you used to prior to the huge increase in monetization, then it's only fair that you don't deserve to be paid all that money in return, right? You pointed out that even the "best of the best" might not be able to satisfy weekly new content (which isn't true given Jagex's history, but let's play along), but that doesn't matter: the value proposition does. If you charge X amount of money for Y game experience, then people set their expectations accordingly to that X amount, and if you charge Z amount of money, then they set their expectations accordingly to that. Simple, yes?

So all in all, if Jagex doesn't like players bleeding from the game by trying to increase the ARPPU without providing more in return, they do have the option to change their monetization accordingly, which would make people like me change their expectations as well to match. As long as they keep charging more money, it's only natural to expect them to deliver more though.
"These ghastly beasts CAN be slain! They CAN be overcome!" -Borch Three Jackdaws

12-Aug-2019 15:15:29

Rikornak
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 6,028Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Let's get this straight:

- I do fully agree with you that tons of patch weeks in a row aren't really ideal - regarding the fact august was announced as a full patch month it will be at least seven unless they really have some hidden thing up their sleeves - which simply is way too much. Albeit - the quality of the patch weeks this year is significantly higher than the ones they delivered in one of that tons of patch weeks in a row set last year - if they can't deliver content, they at least should polish existing stuff - which is at least as important as outright new content. Something they horribly failed at additionally last year in those sequences not just once. But right now the quality of those patch weeks is great.
- It doesn't help anybody that you start complaining at the lack of content directly the week after a big update - admittingly I do not know how or if you engage with it. While I generally agree with your ends, your means (that passive-aggressive muttering) does not really help with that - especially regarding the background you instantly start doing this in a patch week after a big update.
- It also doesn't help you're taking some state 10 years ago as a point of reference - great to see that it once was like this, but for some reason it no longer is for quite some time now. RS3 is significantly more complex than RS2 ever was - and ever OS, which is much closer to that delivers tons of patch weeks in a row between two pieces of content - or even no update weeks.
Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

12-Aug-2019 15:31:41 - Last edited on 12-Aug-2019 15:40:33 by Rikornak

Tuffty
Jan
fmod Member
2003

Tuffty

Forum Moderator Posts: 138,843Ruby Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I would rather have patch weeks and all bugs fixed then keep adding content and leaving the bugs in place.

Also if I remember right the Community voted for these type of updates.

So what are we complaining about here when it was a community decission.
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12-Aug-2019 15:38:14

Rikornak
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 6,028Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Tuffty said:
I would rather have patch weeks and all bugs fixed then keep adding content and leaving the bugs in place.

Also if I remember right the Community voted for these type of updates.

So what are we complaining about here when it was a community decission.


I think you're refering to the 2015 poll: https://runescape.wiki/w/Player_Power/Past_polls/2015#Opinion_Poll:_Update_Size_vs_Frequency

That is about the size of content - 2018 for instance hadn't had a big update at all, so it basically ended up just as reducing the frequency of stuff - 2014 had prif (which was before that poll), 2016 the arc, '17 menaphos and '19 now the anachronia.

Also - Jagex had deemed the expansion based model as failed after the release of menaphos (which why invention batch 2 was released seperately rather than being part of another expansion), returning to smaller releases.
Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

12-Aug-2019 15:42:20 - Last edited on 12-Aug-2019 15:47:17 by Rikornak

Skull-inky
May Gold Premier Club Member 2017

Skull-inky

Posts: 3,867Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Oooh i love this excuse, these are the excuses companies use for MTX..

Changes to tech in the gaming industry, means content takes longer to make.

MTX helps the game grow.

With the introduction of MTX we can invest that back into the game.

MTX is needed to ensure the game has a future.

Fun fact the most commonly used excuse by another gaming company is the "tech changes" however its been proven time and time again, the changes to tech actually means less development time and faster game releases. Infact this company is has boosted laying off staff, making more money and less development time.

Jagex currently have the upper hand as not many people actually keep upto date with gaming industry news.

As an example not a lot of people know jagex told Pcgamer that after fossil island release content will be dropped every week for 8 weeks or so, as to not overwhelm people with the content. this was a complete lie.

Jagex are currently at their highest profits, and ironically since MTX content has been consistently dwindling since their statement of MTX allows more frequent higher quality updates. lol.
royal society magazine

We would agree that regardless of the profitability of the loot box trade, the risks associated with them are worryingly high

12-Aug-2019 15:45:29

Skull-inky
May Gold Premier Club Member 2017

Skull-inky

Posts: 3,867Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Tuffty said:
I would rather have patch weeks and all bugs fixed then keep adding content and leaving the bugs in place.

Also if I remember right the Community voted for these type of updates.

So what are we complaining about here when it was a community decission.


Ill say again the fact jagex had to lie to Pcgamer suggests they knew content was minimal on this island and by lying was the only way to ensure people would buy summer special membership.

People voted for full big updates, not an island with minimal content.
royal society magazine

We would agree that regardless of the profitability of the loot box trade, the risks associated with them are worryingly high

12-Aug-2019 15:47:41

Blackwing
Nov Member 2012

Blackwing

Posts: 40,837Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Rikornak said:
- I do fully agree with you that tons of patch weeks in a row aren't really ideal - regarding the fact august was announced as a full patch month it will be at least seven unless they really have some hidden thing up their sleeves. Albeit - the quality of the patch weeks this year is significantly higher than the ones they delivered in one of that tons of patch weeks in a row set last year - if they can't deliver content, they at least should polish existing stuff - which is at least as important as outright new content. Something they horribly failed at additionally last year in that sequence not just once. But right now the quality of those patch weeks is great.

Patches are great when combined with having something to do, but alone they're pointless - what's the point of fixing the game if it's boring? Also it seems that they fix more stuff nowadays because they let through more bugs as well.


Rikornak said:
- It doesn't help anybody that you start complaining at the lack of content directly the week after a big update - admittingly I do not know how or if you engage with it. While I generally agree with your ends, your means (that passive-aggressive muttering) do not really help with that - especially regarding the background you instantly start doing this in a patch week after a big update.

Having seen how Jagex has developed the game across the years, I know what happens when you let Jagex get too comfortable: they'll take a mile when you give them an inch. They've been given so many chances before that it's not worth it to keep giving them the benefit of the doubt for the 100th time or so (figuratively, but I hope you get the idea). If Jagex were to prove with actions that they'll improve, then you wouldn't see that.
"These ghastly beasts CAN be slain! They CAN be overcome!" -Borch Three Jackdaws

12-Aug-2019 15:47:41

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