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LordáDrakan
Sep Member 2010

LordáDrakan

Posts: 6,777Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Welcome, dear reader. :)

At long last, a completionist cape rework has been announced, with a request for player input. Well, here is mine!

The goal of this thread is to suggest a - hopefully - sensible way of nixing the completionist's cape's (henceforth cc) stats and replacing its best-in-slot status with a different cape. The idea behind the replacement cape would be that it's entirely combat-oriented, and thus would require various combat-related 'ingredients' to obtain.

Apart from making the cc (as good as) cosmetic, its requirements, which are currently a mess, would be reworked from scratch, making sure they are of the appropriate difficulty as well as consistent, in particular for the trimmed version. Finally, this suggestion introduces a new way of showing off achievements beyond even the trimmed cc, displaying exceptional prowess at, for instance, certain bosses or minigames.

Please let me know what you think! (there is a FAQ at the end) Apart from discussing this particular suggestion, this thread (being in FGU) may of course also be used to discuss the update in general. Note that this thread does not discuss of introducing new, playstyle-specific comp cape equivalents (except for combat), e.g. for minigames, achievements/RuneScore, music, etc. but I would very much be a fan of this idea, so feel free to suggest/discuss that too!

If you have the time, please do read all the discussion in this thread, not just the OP, as there's helpful back-and-forth feedback going on, representing several different views. :)

~~~

Written by Lord Lowerniel Vergidiyad Drakan, Regent of the Sanguine Fields, Prince of Blood, Lord of Vampyrium, Monarch of Morytania, Despoiler of Hallowvale, Bane of Icyene, 5 times winner of the Official Sharpest Teeth Award (ę Varrock Tourist Office 5.163, 5.165-7, 5.169) aka Fswe1.

Thanks to Rikornak and Big Storms for suggestions.
Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. Minigames & ninja fixes & achievement ideas!

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
Ś Zanik

03-Jan-2019 11:12:07 - Last edited on 26-Jan-2019 09:02:58 by LordáDrakan

LordáDrakan
Sep Member 2010

LordáDrakan

Posts: 6,777Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Table of Contents

1.1 - Introduction
1.2 - Table of Contents (hello)
1.3 - Reasons
1.6 - What happens to the cc?
1.7 - New cc requirements
1.8 - New cc(t) requirements
1.9 - Emblems
2.1 - Amnesties
2.2 - The new combat cape
2.6 - FAQ
Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. Minigames & ninja fixes & achievement ideas!

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
Ś Zanik

03-Jan-2019 11:12:20 - Last edited on 03-Jan-2019 11:20:04 by LordáDrakan

LordáDrakan
Sep Member 2010

LordáDrakan

Posts: 6,777Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Reasons

Uniquely amongst the capes of distinction, the cc does more ill than it does good to the game. The problem is that it is currently the best cape in-game in terms of stats and therefore high-levelled players feel compelled to obtain it. While one has always been able to argue that 'nobody is forcing you to get the cape', the retort 'but I need its superior stats for Slayer/tough bosses/rumble mode/...' is more than fair. Thus, players feel forced, whether they like it or not, to obtain the cape not just for the prestige but largely for the stats as well, and this leads to a multitude of problems. However, do see Big Storms's comments here.

For instance, some of the requirements, particularly for the trimmed cape, are extremely steep. A full set of profound decorative armour, rank 400 in Mobilising Armies, the best ogre hat... While these are definitely things that true completion of the game would warrant to some degree, they have absolutely nothing to do with prowess in combat. Thus, while a completionist cape may require these, a best-in-slot cape for use in combat should not. One solution would be to remove those requirements, but then it wouldn't be a completionist cape anymore. The obvious route, then, is to introduce a new best-in-slot cape with more appropriate requirements and revamp the cc to be solely a prestige thing. Because currently, high requirements like these lead to massive problems, such as afk'ers in Castle Wars and MA, saboteurs, and that kind of stuff that kills the enjoyment in the game for other people (though the badly designed thaler system has also contributed to this, but that's a different story). By removing the cc's stats, only the truly dedicated players will 'go' for it - the ones that enjoy CW and MA and chompy hunting, without feeling 'forced' to get it because of its stats. Well, that wouldn't apply to everyone, but it'd probably go a good way thither.
Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. Minigames & ninja fixes & achievement ideas!

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
Ś Zanik

03-Jan-2019 11:12:32 - Last edited on 04-Jan-2019 14:43:25 by LordáDrakan

LordáDrakan
Sep Member 2010

LordáDrakan

Posts: 6,777Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Another issue is that developers have to limit the difficulty of new content in order to prevent complaints from the people who don't want to lose their cape. While, as before, the argument 'this counts as completing the content; if you don't want to play it/think it takes too long, then you should lose your cape, so stop complaining' is perfectly valid, so is the retort 'but it has brilliant stats and I need those for my regular gameplay (e.g. endgame bosses), therefore I am forced to complete this new content much faster than it is intended, so you shouldn't make the requirement so high'. Nix the stats, and the argument falls apart. Developers would be able to also add rewards to the most challenging parts of new updates, and require completionists to obtain these without depriving people of their combat bonuses. Compare this to the achievement system; achievements can be made arbitrarily difficult (see some of the suggestions in my forum thread! :D) precisely because they're simply for fun and don't come with any rewards (let alone such superior rewards such as best-in-slot stats). There is a caveat here, of course, as adding arbitrarily difficult requirements (within reason of course) that take a long time to get, coupled with the frequency of updates, means that nobody would ever have a cc due to constantly having to work to 'reclaim' it (even if it doesn't have its stats anymore, one might still feel 'forced' to get it back because it's so prestigious). I have addressed this concern below.

Finally, the current requirements are very inconsistent. You have to unlock all spells, but not all prayers or abilities, just some. You have to unlock the bonecrusher upgrade, but not seedicide and herbicide. Where's the ability to make Ancient Magicks teletabs? The list goes on. Reworking everything from scratch would allow stuff to be streamlined across the board, and the achievement system helps with that immensely.
Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. Minigames & ninja fixes & achievement ideas!

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
Ś Zanik

03-Jan-2019 11:12:43

LordáDrakan
Sep Member 2010

LordáDrakan

Posts: 6,777Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Being a completionist's cape, i.e. marking one's 'completion' of 'everything' the game has to offer, it's intended as something you earn after years of varied gameplay. In theory, nobody should ever have to purposefully try and obtain the cape, as it's supposed to be earnt 'eventually', as you play regularly and explore all of the game's content. But its superior stats have turned it into a goal by itself for many (and can you blame them? Some situations just require the best gear you can get), and thereby led to aforementioned problems. Also, certain people seem to have a mindset that they 'must' get the cape even if they don't like the content related to some of its requirements (this leads to e.g. the afk'ing and boosting in MA); hopefully if the cape's stats (but not its prestige!) are removed, they can accept that there is also the option to accept that you really don't want to play that content extensively and therefore forgo the cape.

All in all, not only does it not make sense for the cc to have such good combat stats, the desire for which causes major problems in various pieces of content, the method of earning it is also riddled with inconsistency and illogicality, whereas the player-felt necessity of holding on to the cape once earnt leads to problems with unreleased content. Needless to say, it's time for change.
Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. Minigames & ninja fixes & achievement ideas!

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
Ś Zanik

03-Jan-2019 11:12:52

LordáDrakan
Sep Member 2010

LordáDrakan

Posts: 6,777Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
What happens to the cc

The completionist cape would be changed as follows:
- Its stats are vastly reduced to those of a regular skillcape (or it is made completely cosmetic).
- It keeps all of its customisations and emotes. Unlocking it would automatically also unlock an override version that inherits your customisations, if that is technically feasible.
- It would lose its combat-related special effects too, with the exception of the ability to hold three skillcape perks. It would still be able to teleport to the Max Guild (the max cape would retain these two as well, requiring all skillcapes after all), and inherit the effects of the Ardougne cloak and Jerrod's cape.
- Its other effects would be transferred to the new best-in-slot combat cape; that is, Ava's devices' ammo retrieval, the TzHaar capes' bonus, spirit cape effect and the bonesack(e)'s teleport.
- Its requirements, and those of the trimming, would have to be revised from scratch, making use of the new achievement system. A general guideline is found below.
Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. Minigames & ninja fixes & achievement ideas!

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
Ś Zanik

03-Jan-2019 11:13:16

LordáDrakan
Sep Member 2010

LordáDrakan

Posts: 6,777Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
+++
CC requirements
+++
The completionist cape would require:
- Level 99 in all skills
- A quest cape
- All achievement diaries (= exploration achievements excluding lodestone, Menaphos and The Arc) completed
- All music tracks unlocked
- All miniquests completed
- 500 total boss kills, spread over at least five bosses (replacing the Reaper title in particular)
- Intermediate experience with each minigame, D&D and skill training area (by this I mean e.g. Artisans' Workshop, Herblore Habitat, Livid Farm), recorded through (as of yet mostly non-existing) achievements or trackable unlocks, e.g.
* BA: Kill the Penance King once (is an achievement)
* FF: Obtain the fishing outfit (outfit untradeable; can be tracked)
* CW: Display any set of decorative armour in your POH (would be an achievement)
* DT: Fight each boss at least once (can be tracked as they're unlocked for freestyle)
* LF: Purchase the Teleport to South Falador spell from Pauline (is an achievement)
* FPF: Obtain a score of at least 1500 (would be an achievement)
* POP: Unlock the Skull region (can be tracked)
* SH: Complete Dahmaroc's statue once (can be tracked)
- A RuneScore requirement, something like 15,000 (just an example)
- Some miscellaneous requirements of not-too-cumbersome completeables, again tracked through achievements, e.g. obtained a frozen key, an imcando pickaxe, learnt Ourania Teleport and Bones to Peaches, learnt how to make ancient magicks, Arc and Menaphos teletabs, etc.
Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. Minigames & ninja fixes & achievement ideas!

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
Ś Zanik

03-Jan-2019 11:13:20 - Last edited on 03-Jan-2019 11:13:43 by LordáDrakan

LordáDrakan
Sep Member 2010

LordáDrakan

Posts: 6,777Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
+++
CC(t) requirements
+++
The trimmed cape would require even more thorough completion of the game, that is:
- A cc
- Level 120 in the relevant skills
- Most post-quest content fully explored (think Doric & Boric tasks and other stuff from the master quest cape that relates directly to (quest) gameplay and not just lore)
- 1000 total boss kills and Reaper title
- Unlock all spells, abilities and prayers/curses (that aren't dropped as super expensive codices)
- Extensive experience with or, where applicable, completion of each minigame, D&D and skill training area, once more recorded through achievements and unique rewards, e.g. (note that the thaler system would have to be removed/reworked first so that the unique minigame rewards cannot be obtained from afk'ing or the thaler shop)
* BA: Obtain all titles, insignias, lore books, pieces of armour (sans granite body) and weapons (can be tracked, e.g. via armour case)
* FF: Obtain the champion's tackle box (can be tracked)
* CW: Own three out of the five cosmetic capes
* DT: Unlock all achievements and the Survivor title
* LF: Unlock all of Pauline's spells
* FPF: Unlock the full factory outfit, rogue outfit and botanist's outfit
* POP: Complete all storylines, fully upgrade your port, complete all scrolls, obtain the tengu outfit
* SH: Complete Dahmaroc's statue in your POH
- A RuneScore requirement, something like 20,000 (just an example)
- Complete all non-cosmetic miscellaneous content, e.g.
* Complete each slayer challenge once
* Maximum Menaphos reputation (overall; not all districts)
* All minigame hybrid armour obtained (note that it can be purchased from Stanley Limelight's store, so that should be removed)
* All Meilyr combination recipes unlocked
Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. Minigames & ninja fixes & achievement ideas!

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
Ś Zanik

03-Jan-2019 11:14:15

LordáDrakan
Sep Member 2010

LordáDrakan

Posts: 6,777Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
These are just ideas and examples, not strict rules. In particular, the trimmed cape would be rid of ridiculous requirements like the profound decorative armour set or maximum Runespan esteem. But you ask, how can players show off those achievements then? Kudos to Rikornak for the following proposal!

+++
Emblems!
+++
So currently, the general rule is that the cc should be "complete most basic stuff, try out every piece of content" while the trimmed version is "additionally, get all useful unlockables and completeables and play every pieces of content extensively". But what about 'true' completion of content that demonstrates you're super dedicated and extremely good at it, but wouldn't be reasonable to ask of everyone as a requirement? How to show off that you got a super high score of 1800+ in Flash Powder Factory, or completed the drop log for Araxxi, or played 5000 Castle Wars games, or have obtained the (Insane) Final Boss title, or have a super high Conquest rating of over 5000, or have prestiged your Robber role in Heist 50 times, or obtained 200M Cooking xp? To those players I offer emblems, the ultimate way of customising your (trimmed) cc apart from choosing the fancy colour scheme.

Basically, completing super difficult endgame achievements such as the ones just listed (ideally every skill, boss, skill training area or D&D and minigame would get such an emblem-unlocking achievement - see thread in signature for suggestions!) would unlock an emblem you can add to your cape, like a sticker. These can be used to show off these specific achievements, proving you just went beyond trim. You could have, for instance, up to 5 emblems on your cape, fully customised by yourself. Getting 200M xp in a skill would unlock that skill icon; other content like minigames and bosses would have new custom icons - it shouldn't be too hard to come up with them.
Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. Minigames & ninja fixes & achievement ideas!

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
Ś Zanik

03-Jan-2019 11:14:37 - Last edited on 03-Jan-2019 11:14:57 by LordáDrakan

LordáDrakan
Sep Member 2010

LordáDrakan

Posts: 6,777Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
This way, both comp capes have difficult but humane requirements, whilst the true 'completers' and fans of certain pieces of content can really personalise their cape and show off their accomplishments! My only issue is that you would need a completionist cape to show off emblems in the first place, but why should e.g. a Conquest champion with a very high rating have 99 in all skills to get one? Therefore perhaps emblems should not be limited to the cc only. Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. Minigames & ninja fixes & achievement ideas!

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
Ś Zanik

03-Jan-2019 11:15:05

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