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Samora Kiba

Samora Kiba

Posts: 7,946Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
This all sounds very familiar..
Anyways:
Original message details are unavailable.
Jagex can *very* easily see whether 2 accounts belong to the same person. This is one of the first checks that are already being done as part of the investigation. Players can safely transfer money to their alt accounts, that does not trigger a RWT ban. Therefor, proving that you own both accounts does not affect the RWT ban.

Besides, there is no evidence that you can provide that can be considered valid information. Screenshots and similar can easily be faked. Other people vouching for you is not reliable either. Jagex can only rely on the evidence their own system gathered, and that evidence is already thoroughly checked by multiple Jmods before a ban is applied.

Jagex already has a ban review process, and decided to not include some types of bans for several reasons. I certainly do hope the live chat and instant reply services won't be spammed with players trying to appeal a ban that can't be appealed, I doubt the live chat is meant as bypass for players who want to appeal a ban that can't be appealed.

Edit:
Pontoons said:
Please do not mistake me for someone who thinks real world trade is acceptable in game. Just trying to think of a 'fair' way to give
people
back their accounts who may have been banned but perhaps did not deserved it.

'People' eh?
Original message details are unavailable.
Well Samora, clearly you're wrong. Besides, that is the only possible explanation for the ban besides trading friends large sums of money, although I've been trading the same friends large sums of money back and forth for a long time.

Besides, Jagex doesn't show evidence for these types of bans, so how can I possibly know what triggered the ban, and how can you possibly know what doesn't trigger a ban?
~Samo

Community Helper

Member of the godless. It's not that I don't want to devote my soul to an RS god, the problem is that I can't find it.

29-May-2019 21:39:14 - Last edited on 29-May-2019 21:42:07 by Samora Kiba

Samora Kiba

Samora Kiba

Posts: 7,946Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hi Pontoons,

Not getting the answer you want does not mean that the person replying to you is wrong or ill-informed. 'Well, what you say doesn't match what I want to hear so you can't possibly know what you're talking about' is a rather poor stance in any discussion and suggests you'd rather maintain ignorance instead of accepting the truth.

Skod is correct: what you are suggesting is not evidence.
You could bring all your devices to Jagex HQ and that will not influence your ban in any way. Next to that - we mentioned Jagex can easily tell which accounts belong to the same owner/household. Bans for RWT are not triggered by trading your own alt, dozens of people do that every single hour. RWT bans are triggered by Real World Trading.

There's no need to prove that you traded your alt because Jagex can tell they are your alt.

What an interesting Compliments thread.
~Samo

Community Helper

Member of the godless. It's not that I don't want to devote my soul to an RS god, the problem is that I can't find it.

31-May-2019 19:34:15

Samora Kiba

Samora Kiba

Posts: 7,946Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
You are either missing what we are trying to say, or ignoring it:

- Jagex does not require information provided by players at all.
- There is nothing you can provide that can be considered valid evidence.

The entire players providing evidence part is not viable and not going to fly, as it's not needed and it's not reliable, no matter how you look at it. That is what other players including Skod and me have been trying to tell you on this thread and your previous thread. Really, it's the best advice we can give you: forget about wanting to provide evidence.

On to the main suggestion: wanting to make RWT bans appealable.
How could Jagex go about reviewing bans to ensure incorrect bans are found, without spending a lot of time on checking illegitimate appeals? For starters, by only allowing appeals for the type of bans where there's still a chance for a legit player being caught, like macroing.

With RWT bans, that is not the case. They have been reviewed several times already by multiple Jmods specialised in the field of RWT bans. Especially because it can't be appealed, they make absolutely sure to confirm an offence happened and that a perm ban is appropriate. If such a ban was to be reviewed again, it would simply be yet another Jmod looking at the same evidence gathered by Jagex again (no, don't see this as a hint that this means there is a lack of evidence, as there really is plenty of that). It will not change the outcome. Jagex can see what happened.

Constructive feedback does not necessarily have to support your view. Both Skod and I have been delivering constructive feedback with arguments and facts why something does not work. We based our replies on facts, Jmod replies and experience. Not wanting to aknowledge/believe/get certain information about your suggestion, well, in my opinion that says quite a lot about the quality of the suggestion.
~Samo

Community Helper

Member of the godless. It's not that I don't want to devote my soul to an RS god, the problem is that I can't find it.

01-Jun-2019 16:21:46

Samora Kiba

Samora Kiba

Posts: 7,946Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Also, as I'm quite frankly tired of hearing that no one except Jmods knows anything about bans whatsoever, I'll just quote Mod Infinity for you:
We call these severe offences. These permanent bans may be issued due to prolific item scamming, bug abuse, account hijacking, fraud, or as a result of a Customer Support JMod investigation.

Whenever a category 1 or severe offence ban is issued it is manually investigated by a fully trained Customer Support Specialist. They're trained to review if the account was hijacked, if there are any other alternative punishments we could use (such as a final warning), and if the offence committed warrants a permanent ban. We take a lot of care when issuing these bans, as we fully accept that at current, there is no way for the player to appeal the ban.

Team Leaders regularly audit and review permanent bans issued for consistency and accuracy (although our team are highly proficient) and all Category 1 offences are reviewed by a team of Community Safety Specialists (given that they are escalated to external enforcement agencies).

I'm completely satisfied with the way in which those bans and offences are issued. They are reviewed fully by trained specialists, they are reviewed by Team Leaders and in certain cases, a team of safety experts. The majority of permanent bans are generally issued by a more senior member of the support team.

It is worth noting that we are a business, and removing innocent players from our game offers us no benefit. In fact, we're losing money. When you consider the staff cost of issuing a ban, the future membership revenue now lost, plus any potential MTX spend, along with the fact we've now got a pissed off player who is telling all of their friends we banned them for no reason... well - its not great for business or our image, and so only permanently ban if absolutely necessary. Permanent bans are ultimately designed to safeguard our game and protect the wider community.
~Samo

Community Helper

Member of the godless. It's not that I don't want to devote my soul to an RS god, the problem is that I can't find it.

01-Jun-2019 16:26:07

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