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Pontoons
Jun Member 2019

Pontoons

Posts: 47Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hi Skod,

If you've got access to all of the details of both accounts in question then it's not RWT anyway because the money hasn't exchanged ownership...lol.

How about if you prove you've got access to all devices you've logged into the account on? We know Jagex has data on what devices you log into your account on. But oh...the device might not be yours either....lol

Kind Regards

31-May-2019 10:35:19

Samora Kiba
Jan Member 2008

Samora Kiba

Posts: 7,907Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hi Pontoons,

Not getting the answer you want does not mean that the person replying to you is wrong or ill-informed. 'Well, what you say doesn't match what I want to hear so you can't possibly know what you're talking about' is a rather poor stance in any discussion and suggests you'd rather maintain ignorance instead of accepting the truth.

Skod is correct: what you are suggesting is not evidence.
You could bring all your devices to Jagex HQ and that will not influence your ban in any way. Next to that - we mentioned Jagex can easily tell which accounts belong to the same owner/household. Bans for RWT are not triggered by trading your own alt, dozens of people do that every single hour. RWT bans are triggered by Real World Trading.

There's no need to prove that you traded your alt because Jagex can tell they are your alt.

What an interesting Compliments thread.
~Samo

Community Helper

Member of the godless. It's not that I don't want to devote my soul to an RS god, the problem is that I can't find it.

31-May-2019 19:34:15

Pontoons
Jun Member 2019

Pontoons

Posts: 47Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Hi Samora,

I don't quite agree with your opening paragraph but I won't sway your opinion on that I don't think.

I am aware that Jagex does not currently review any RWT bans, which is why I'm asking them to look into it as part of their customer service review.

If Jagex requires anymore information other than the device the account was created on, proof you have access to the email and account details then they could specify exactly what they'd like and if the user could provide that then surely it's worth looking into?

Given that there is currently no review process at the moment, they wouldn't know if there is something that they're getting wrong or not because the player has absolutely no chance so submit evidence against the charges.

This is/was a compliments thread because I believe the a customer service review is an incredibly good thing in all aspects, and their latest update was very promising. However, this should now maybe be moved to suggestions.

If you honestly have any constructive feedback, other than 'people banned should accept the ban even if they have evidence against it', please let me know.

Things that might be helpful include:
-Thinking of evidence which could be deemed valid enough to warrant a review.
-How Jagex could go about reviewing bans whilst quickly filtering out illegitimate appeals.

Kind Regards,

01-Jun-2019 05:43:11

Samora Kiba
Jan Member 2008

Samora Kiba

Posts: 7,907Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
You are either missing what we are trying to say, or ignoring it:

- Jagex does not require information provided by players at all.
- There is nothing you can provide that can be considered valid evidence.

The entire players providing evidence part is not viable and not going to fly, as it's not needed and it's not reliable, no matter how you look at it. That is what other players including Skod and me have been trying to tell you on this thread and your previous thread. Really, it's the best advice we can give you: forget about wanting to provide evidence.

On to the main suggestion: wanting to make RWT bans appealable.
How could Jagex go about reviewing bans to ensure incorrect bans are found, without spending a lot of time on checking illegitimate appeals? For starters, by only allowing appeals for the type of bans where there's still a chance for a legit player being caught, like macroing.

With RWT bans, that is not the case. They have been reviewed several times already by multiple Jmods specialised in the field of RWT bans. Especially because it can't be appealed, they make absolutely sure to confirm an offence happened and that a perm ban is appropriate. If such a ban was to be reviewed again, it would simply be yet another Jmod looking at the same evidence gathered by Jagex again (no, don't see this as a hint that this means there is a lack of evidence, as there really is plenty of that). It will not change the outcome. Jagex can see what happened.

Constructive feedback does not necessarily have to support your view. Both Skod and I have been delivering constructive feedback with arguments and facts why something does not work. We based our replies on facts, Jmod replies and experience. Not wanting to aknowledge/believe/get certain information about your suggestion, well, in my opinion that says quite a lot about the quality of the suggestion.
~Samo

Community Helper

Member of the godless. It's not that I don't want to devote my soul to an RS god, the problem is that I can't find it.

01-Jun-2019 16:21:46

Samora Kiba
Jan Member 2008

Samora Kiba

Posts: 7,907Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Also, as I'm quite frankly tired of hearing that no one except Jmods knows anything about bans whatsoever, I'll just quote Mod Infinity for you:
We call these severe offences. These permanent bans may be issued due to prolific item scamming, bug abuse, account hijacking, fraud, or as a result of a Customer Support JMod investigation.

Whenever a category 1 or severe offence ban is issued it is manually investigated by a fully trained Customer Support Specialist. They're trained to review if the account was hijacked, if there are any other alternative punishments we could use (such as a final warning), and if the offence committed warrants a permanent ban. We take a lot of care when issuing these bans, as we fully accept that at current, there is no way for the player to appeal the ban.

Team Leaders regularly audit and review permanent bans issued for consistency and accuracy (although our team are highly proficient) and all Category 1 offences are reviewed by a team of Community Safety Specialists (given that they are escalated to external enforcement agencies).

I'm completely satisfied with the way in which those bans and offences are issued. They are reviewed fully by trained specialists, they are reviewed by Team Leaders and in certain cases, a team of safety experts. The majority of permanent bans are generally issued by a more senior member of the support team.

It is worth noting that we are a business, and removing innocent players from our game offers us no benefit. In fact, we're losing money. When you consider the staff cost of issuing a ban, the future membership revenue now lost, plus any potential MTX spend, along with the fact we've now got a pissed off player who is telling all of their friends we banned them for no reason... well - its not great for business or our image, and so only permanently ban if absolutely necessary. Permanent bans are ultimately designed to safeguard our game and protect the wider community.
~Samo

Community Helper

Member of the godless. It's not that I don't want to devote my soul to an RS god, the problem is that I can't find it.

01-Jun-2019 16:26:07

Pontoons
Jun Member 2019

Pontoons

Posts: 47Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I did write a very long reply but when I pressed 'post' it disappeared for some reason.

I'm not going to re-type it all; however, every IT company knows that every process involving humans falls victim to human-error. Whether this is some small piece of information that is overlooked or misinterpreted. And Jagex said themselves in that statement you posted that not EVERY ban is reviewed by multiple JMods.

As much as you think you know, Samora, and as much as Jagex tries to avoid banning innocent accounts; however small the number, some innocent accounts ARE banned. Jagex will know this and they've probably just decided that it's not worth the resource costs to skim through all the illegitimate appeals to find the legitimate ones. I'm just asking that they look into ways of reviewing all permanent ban types as part of their player support rework.

Kind Regards,

06-Jun-2019 00:13:10

Tuffty
Jan
fmod Member
2003

Tuffty

Forum Moderator Posts: 137,813Ruby Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
This has turned into an appeal thread.

Jagex check all bans before issuing them. Why would the ban innocent players.

Threads been locked now due to the nature of the topic. It's not really a Compliment but a Suggestion for better appeal system for certain bans.
Comprehensive Account Security
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10-Jun-2019 10:00:16 - Last edited on 10-Jun-2019 10:00:36 by Tuffty

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