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iXavior

iXavior

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^
**EDIT**
UPDATE:
Well.... I have to admit, the new lore in the "The Ugthanatos" book really changes perspectives of summoning a lot...
I worship Mah, for she is mah homegirl! The correct adjective for Mah's followers are: Mahomies, Mah-homeboys, or Mah-homegirls.

10-Nov-2015 02:33:36 - Last edited on 17-Nov-2015 04:16:22 by iXavior

Rondstat

Rondstat

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So, with the Myreque (and, in all likelihood, Morytania) storyline coming to a close, one of the game's more confusing critters currently casts me into consternation. Also, I have a rare disease which makes me obnoxiously alliterative.

I refer of course to the nailbeast! For reasons alluded to in the thread, it is one of the biggest outliers in Runescape's bestiary. While most creatures who drop unique charms evidently draw their anima from some place other than the Anima Mundi (Abyssal creatures, elder charmers, TzHaar->Kiln, etc), nailbeasts have no known origin, and no apparent reason for dropping anything other than the four standard charms of Gielinor.

While it's unlikely Rivers of Blood will take this detour, I'd still very much like to see the question answered, and I'm wondering if any Lorehounds have compelling theories/observations of their own on this topic.
Where do nailbeasts come from?!




that's worth gravebumping my thread, right?

02-Apr-2016 00:31:36

AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

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Svigris said:
iXavior said:
snip


Summoning is it's own source of magic. Notably it's made from the collective dreams of the inhabitants of mortals or powerful beings. Lord Almondd is our formost cite for this matter so I'd recommend you go talk to him.


Worth mentioning that everything he says are just theories, nothing he knows for certain... Well apart from familiars not needing to eat.


"The Amlodd believe that familiars are nothing more than manifest concepts - ideas brought to life through the power of anima. A spirit wolf comes into being due to those of us who THINK about wolves and the idea of wolfiness. Wait, 'wolfiness'? That's not a wordl. Hmm, pretend that it is; you get the idea. Though, I have also heard claims that the Spirit Plane is nothing more than an underworld for beings of limited consciousness. Whatever is the case, they don't NEED to eat, and yet there I saw them, ever day, doing through the motions of eating. "


Now of course the camel warriors book seems to imply that the Amlodd's theory is correct, but we shouldn't be too quick to jump to conclusions.
-
I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

02-Apr-2016 16:29:16 - Last edited on 02-Apr-2016 16:30:34 by AesirWarrior

AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

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Hey, Rondstat,

This is excellent. I'm sorry it took me literally a year to process all of this. I was stuck on a few details, such as treating anima as a quantified force - which the lore does, but Aristotle does not - and I needed to clarify these for myself. I think I've done so in an outline of the history of magic among Gielinor's humans on Last Prophet's On Chaos Druids. It's very close to your account here, except I try to outline two or three different but corresponding and complimentary languages of magic which gather together the various senses of the words we use and which might fit within different ages of Gielinor's history. I prefer speaking in what I have described as a traditional (pre- modern runic magic) register, but now I can better appreciate the modern register.

Because my 'history' does not disagree with but supplements your work, I want first to outline a few points concerning translating between the different registers I've developed, so that I can draw upon them, and then I can indicate the extent of our agreement and make a few suggestions.

25-Jul-2016 17:58:37

AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

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Second, in my own ancient account, individual freedom and action and control over matter kind of disappears; I have tried to speak in a way that predates the modern conception of self - of oneself as a materially located place of visible responses to various invisible spirits. Therefore, my account does not have a distinction between wanima and manima, but I think your model is great. And my own account of the emergence of summoning resonates with it:AttilaSquare said:
The new discipline began with the following insight: "The spirits of nature are perfectly balanced to support the lives of everything which lives in the world of Gielinor. The spirits live in their realm of shadow, while we live in the realm of light. But is not this strict division inordinately rigid? Might not there be some balanced way by which the spirits visit us and we visit the spirits?"

Based upon these questions, the druids developed a spell by which they established a connection with the shadow realm. It may sound strange to identify the spirit realm with the shadow realm, but [I think] these are the same - it is the invisible dimension of Gielinor, populated by spirits, secrets, lost things, and pocket dimensions - generally the stuff of legends - simply accessed in a different manner.

This connection, established in different locations, began the growth of the summoning obelisks. Herein lies the genius of these druids in maintaining balance - every spell of summoning a creature from the spirit realm would require as a cost a certain number of spirit shards shaved from the growing obelisks; should the druids have used summoned the spirits too frequently, they would have depleted the obelisk and broken the connection; should the druids have summoned the spirits too infrequently, the resulting massive obelisks would have become attractive to their enemies and put the druids themselves at risk.

25-Jul-2016 17:58:58 - Last edited on 25-Jul-2016 18:02:36 by AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

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I think your description of summoning charms works very well. In my recent posts, I contrasted the modern account of the creation of the runecrafting altars with an ancient account, and I think something similar could be done with summoning charms, and that this might further elucidate Lord Amlodd's claim that summoning creatures feed upon the memories of others. Here is the contrast:AttilaSquare said:
Today it is said that human mages brought large blocks of rune essence to locations especially strong in particular magical elements and there focused their thoughts on the elements until the blocks of rune essence also took on the magical elements and became the runecrafting altars we know today. This account is clearly modern: it treats the presence of spirits in terms of quantifiable forces, and it does not address at all the architecture of the altars.

It is more likely that the early human sorcerers did not begin with a complete list of magical elements. Instead, as they journeyed throughout the world, following the promptings of spirits, they came upon places where they enjoyed clear insights concerning the spirits guiding them. In those places they constructed altars. These were meant to invite others to appreciate the guidance of the spirits invisibly dwelling there.

These altars would have become sites of pilgrimage, and the runestones which sorcerers crafted there served as powerful and useful reminders of the pilgrims' journeys. Just as we are taught today, runestones serve to focus the attention of the mage - but for the ancient sorcerers this focusing happened because of the memories associated with the runestones. Today human mages achieve this focus not through recollected memories of spirits but through training in magical techniques and through repeated exposure to magical phenomena.

25-Jul-2016 18:00:23

AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

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Next, I'd like to comment on this:Rondstat said:
Some planes have an over-abundance of free-flowing Wani*a, but have physical presences too chaotic or unfinished to naturally sustain life, or the formation of Manima springs. In this case, the Wani*a may divert, forming 'natural' tributaries and reservoir pools on its own. These natural pools represent 'near-lifeforms,' pure anima/magical constructs. We see this most obviously in the Runespan, where chaotic energies naturally coalesce into the appearance of lifeforms, but I suspect an element of this phenomenon may occur in the early days of most planes. It is even possible that Vorago is a manifestation of Gielinor's over-abundant anima pooling outside the stream.
If I were to attempt to speak of this in an ancient register, I might say that spirits naturally seek matter to animate, and that some planes are not yet saturated with spirits - these exhibit the phenomena you are describing. As you indicate, a similar situation has arisen since the death of Guthix:AttilaSquare said:
Once the Edicts of Guthix fell, the physical manifestations of the change were identified as anima. [...] From a mystical perspective, the pools of green matter are not anima itself, which is a capacity; rather green glow manifests the reaction of matter whose animating spirit has been cast out - the remaining spirits animating the matter resist such violent [planar] thinning and reveal the capacity of the matter of the world for further animating spirits by the green glow. Thus adventures have fed this "hungry" matter, so to speak, with memories - they reintroduce spirits mediated by those memories to Gielinor's matter, restoring and thickening what Guthix's death had thinned.

25-Jul-2016 18:01:07 - Last edited on 25-Jul-2016 18:06:19 by AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

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AttilaSquare said:
This can easily be illustrated with a real life example. Imagine a loved one dies suddenly. The animating spirits of things all around are thrown into disarray - the meaning of everything has changed. Objects in the home themselves seem to long for the presence of the missing person. It takes time to reconnect these things with the memories of the loved one as memories, i.e. as related to someone who is now absent from them. This happens in the time of mourning, after which the memories have settled and new memories are forming, which heal the wounds of loss.

Wounded by the death of Guthix and meddled with by the gods, Gielinor's anima mundi has brought forth from the shadows the spirits of Vorago and Telos.
I think your section on "Conscious People and Dead People" is perfect!

With regard to the void, I am inclined to treat voidal charms as remnants of the components of anima specifically related to abstract thought, i.e. those components unconcerned with experienced content - for, on my account, the pests exercised these components especially in their transit to Gielinor. I have already linked to my description of the void in our other ongoing conversation, but I'll quote here a fun line on Guthix's cut into the void:AttilaSquare said:
To use a cliche, there Guthix had unwittingly severed mind and heart - there their joint action was not necessary to enter the world.
So, in conclusion, I have finally been able to process and appreciate the brilliance of this thread. Thank you for writing it! Also, I am interested in whether you think I have interpreted your work properly and to what extent you think this is compatible with the 'history' I recently wrote. If these work together, I think they form an extremely impressive synthesis of a massive amount of lore.

25-Jul-2016 18:01:37 - Last edited on 25-Jul-2016 18:02:09 by AttilaSquare

iXavior

iXavior

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There seems to be a bit of new summoning lore with the release of The Arc that may be worth looking into.

I suggest reading into the new lore books dropped by the Anagami:
The Path of the Dragon
The Path of the Elemental
The Path of the Monk

Also take a look at the "Spirit Dragon charm" item.
I worship Mah, for she is mah homegirl! The correct adjective for Mah's followers are: Mahomies, Mah-homeboys, or Mah-homegirls.

26-Jul-2016 01:34:25

AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

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iXavior said:
There seems to be a bit of new summoning lore with the release of The Arc that may be worth looking into.

I suggest reading into the new lore books dropped by the Anagami:
The Path of the Dragon\t
The Path of the Elemental\t
The Path of the Monk

Also take a look at the "Spirit Dragon charm" item.
This is interesting. A new explanation for the spirit dragon charms is needed, but this can be somewhat ad hoc, and I have ideas about how to integrate their understanding of summoning with my own account of mysticism. Also, it needs to be explained how a finite number of charms "will allow our existence there on the other side for all time."

29-Jul-2016 18:27:03

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