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What's a Sorcerer?

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Swolllliosis

Swolllliosis

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The word sorcerer is thrown around very scarcely in-game, but what exactly is a sorcerer? The word sorcerer means someone who utilizes sorcery, compared to a wizard, who studies wizardry.

In some other RPGs like D&D, a sorcerer is someone who has inherent magic abilities and does not need to go into magical academics and read spellbooks, like a wizard does. If we use their definition that would mean we could call the moonclan sorcerers/sorceresses, but unfortunately, we never use that term. Instead, characters in-game call the moonclan seahags, witches, or mages, so this suggests that isn't the definition of a sorcerer.

Is a sorcerer a master at magic? Perhaps, but maybe not. We call Sedridor, the headmaster of the Wizards Tower, an "archmage," and never a sorcerer. The title "archmage" requires 99 rc and magic, so this can't be what a sorcerer is. In Rune Memories, we also never called the headmaster of the different Colour Orders Sorcerers. They simply went by Wizard. We also don't call the Magic cape seller a sorcerer I think. Dahmorac and Rhiannon are just called "great mages."

Examples of "Sorcerer" used in game.
-The Sorcerer's Tower with Sorcerer Thormac.
- The Sorceress in Al-Kharid, the owner of the Sorceress's Garden.
- Finia, Quin, Haricanto are called sorcerers in the Wushanko Isles.
- Many in-game books call the Mahjarrat "sorcerers." Books: The Book of Sliske, The Legend of Arrav, Tumeken's Dream,
- In some quests, they use the word "sorcery:"

One of a Kind:
Player: Is there a teleport spell?
Hannibus: Ah, I'm afraid my people are not masters of sorcery, and I fear that any spell powerful enough to send me home might have... consequences.

The Old Blood:
Drakan: Azzanadra was casting a spell, and the sorcery of the Mahjarrat is not to be taken lightly.
Owner of the first 6th age church of Tumeken
| Twitter: @RSTemekel

06-Mar-2017 05:19:56 - Last edited on 06-Mar-2017 07:17:10 by Swolllliosis

Swolllliosis

Swolllliosis

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ROTM:
Akrisae: They [the Mahjarrat] have powerful magic that they'll do Saradomin-knows-what with. I'm not going anywhere near their foul sorcery.

DoC:
Sir Owen: A ritual chamber! A dark aura pervades the room. Zamorakian sorcery has been performed here.

_____________________

While we are on the topic, can someone please also tell me what a mage, magus (example Cadarn magus), thaumaturge (e.g. Saradominist thaumaturge), Shaman (e.g. Armadylean/Airut Shaman), and Occultist (e.g. Zamorakian Occultist) is?
Owner of the first 6th age church of Tumeken
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06-Mar-2017 05:52:04 - Last edited on 06-Mar-2017 07:18:30 by Swolllliosis

Deltaslug

Deltaslug

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There are a few possibilities on top of what you suggested:

- In Rune Mysteries/Memories, Wizard Ellaron blatantly stated that wizards sometimes like to give themselves fancy sounding titles.
As he calls himself: Grand Master of the Order of Saradomin; Initiate into the Inner Circle of Rune Mysteries; Heir to the Sacred Order of the Staff of Fire
All of that at once.
Hence titling themselves as "sorcerer" isn't really all that special.

- They did something relatively unique.
In game, Thormac is the only NPC that can upgrade a Battlestaff to a Mystic Staff.
The Sorceress is the only known NPC with her rather unique garden.
Whether they pioneered something, rediscovered something, or went in a direction that was "more than just magic", there are potential outlets for discovery and such that can allow them to be titled as such.

- They are an order or sub-order unto themselves.
Perhaps they consider themselves to be the true reincarnation of the First Tower's 4 orders. Perhaps they are just a group of hobbyist wizards.
Or they deal in arcane, little used, or undiscovered fields of magic rather than mainstream.
In the end, the differences between them and the ZMI and the Wizard's Tower/Guild force them to have location(s) offsite for their work, but they are still entrenched with their varying magical group affiliations (Assuming they even have them).


- The terms are simply interchangeable.
Eventually in lexicon, multiple words will pop up to describe something. But, all of the words are technically correct/right/accurate, even when at first glance they wouldn't appear to be.
The term 'wizard' is simply the most common description used. 'Mage' gets tossed around at time. So it could be conceivable that 'sorcerer' is a term used by more educated individuals to sound smart and all over their more mundane companions use of other terms.

06-Mar-2017 05:53:45

Elf of Seren
Nov Gold Premier Club Member 2012

Elf of Seren

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You didn't use my etymology stuff from the chat. #Rude lol

But some of these I actually know that Jagex uses correctly according to basic vocabulary!

Thaumaturge means like "miracle worker" so, basically magic users that are perceived to work miracles (coincides well with the Sainthood of Saradomin, and so on).

Shaman relates to spirits, and if you look at ancient Avainsie religion, you find the spirit stories. Through Airut's, I guess you could loosely relate it somehow to like how the spirits escaped Tuska after her death, for the Iccy/Amascut event (I'm sure there's something that explains it better in the lore that hasn't been told yet).

Occultists are described by Zuzu the Occultist in one of her quests, but I forget the precise definition. So, that's really the only one with a canon description.

06-Mar-2017 06:40:55

Raleirosen
Jun Member 2019

Raleirosen

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Remember to cite your sources, else you say something outrageously dumb... kinda like this:Swolllliosis said:
In some other MMOs like D&D
Patrolling Lore FC almost makes you wish for a Great Revision.

06-Mar-2017 06:46:28 - Last edited on 06-Mar-2017 06:46:53 by Raleirosen

Swolllliosis

Swolllliosis

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Elf of Seren said:
Occultists are described by Zuzu the Occultist in one of her quests, but I forget the precise definition. So, that's really the only one with a canon description.


I checked, and Zu Zu doesn't really give a precise definition of an Occultist... just that they are rare, feared and the Eastern Lands hasn't seen any born with the powers of one in decades, until her.
Owner of the first 6th age church of Tumeken
| Twitter: @RSTemekel

06-Mar-2017 07:15:27

Elf of Seren
Nov Gold Premier Club Member 2012

Elf of Seren

Posts: 3,313Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Swolllliosis said:
Elf of Seren said:
Occultists are described by Zuzu the Occultist in one of her quests, but I forget the precise definition. So, that's really the only one with a canon description.


I checked, and Zu Zu doesn't really give a precise definition of an Occultist... just that they are rare, feared and the Eastern Lands hasn't seen any born with the powers of one in decades, until her.


Oops. lol. I guess I would just relate it to the "Occult" supernatural "out there" immoral magicks, then. Like how she basically mutilated animals to do magics. I'm sure that the Zamorakian Occultists may do something similar in misinterpreting his message.

Maiden China said:
Based on the way people talk about it, I'm guessing a soceror is just a magical dude who's kinda evil (or percieved as such) whereas a wizard isn't necessarily good or bad


I don't think Thormac is even perceived as evil tho...

06-Mar-2017 16:56:03 - Last edited on 06-Mar-2017 16:57:40 by Elf of Seren

AttilaSquare

AttilaSquare

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Great question! I tried to develop an extensive answer to this question in Part III of this thread - I recommend skimming page 4 on the Age of Sorcery. The main thrust of it is that sorcery is one of three broad traditions of human magics in Gielinor (from the 1st and 2nd ages) - besides mysticism (late 2nd through mid 4th) and modern magic (mid 4th to the present day).

This partially headcannon account justifies the attribution of sorcery to the mahjarrat - because that was how Gielinor's humans would have originally understood their powers. Another part of the account - a renaissance of sorcery following the return of Guthix (since Guthix restored to some extent the ways of human life as they were before the advent of the young gods) - gives some support to the lingering tradition of sorcery and the practice of making mystic staves sustained by Thormac.

In general, I don't think there is much order to the various titles that the Jmods give to the characters they develop - the titles are more associated with cultures and institutions than a taxonomy of magical disciplines. I proposed here (wholly headcannon) a number of Schools of Mysticism during the Age of Mysticism with which we could associate certain titles, including a 3rd age use of 'sorcerer' in Kandarin as meaning something like 'junior mystic,' like a master's degree as compared to a PhD.

06-Mar-2017 18:52:12 - Last edited on 06-Mar-2017 19:13:53 by AttilaSquare

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