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Thoughts on Werewolf Quests

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ChaosáLupus

ChaosáLupus

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With the release of River of Blood the floodgates have finally been opened for the beginning of a werewolf-focused quest series. Here are a few of my thoughts on how certain elements of the plot and background lore should be handled if these quests become a reality.

Werewolves should not be their own race. Yes, I know that they were confirmed to be their own race from their own world. However, we already have dozens of different races from dozens of different worlds whose origins can all be explained by evolution and adaptation, albeit exaggerated to fit certain niches within this fantasy universe. Instead, I propose that their ancestors should have been humans who were cursed as a result of dark actions of their own.

Afterall, they are able to interbreed with humans (that could be a result of Tenebraĺs magic as we only have one example), although that isnĺt exactly rare in Runescape as humans are able to do so with many different races. However, it makes little sense that werewolves would be trapped in their human forms, or revert back to them in the case that they have already taken on their bestial appearance, if it is not their natural form. It is also odd that they are the only shape-shifters who can, without the aid of a potion or other substance, only take on two different forms. If they are capable of altering their appearances so drastically, why else would they not be able to take on three forms or four or ten? Additionally, it is mentioned by Imre in the novel Return to Canifis, that their children have no abilities beyond that of a normal human child.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

26-Apr-2016 19:31:03 - Last edited on 03-May-2016 17:15:16 by ChaosáLupus

ChaosáLupus

ChaosáLupus

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There are plenty of myths from which influence could be drawn here. A few that I would look favorably upon include certain stories surrounding the wendigo. For those of you who donĺt know, wendigo come from Algonquian legends. There are many variations on the concept of what exactly a wendigo is. The general idea, as it is commonly understood, is that they are humans who become aggressive and develop monstrous physical characteristics and supernatural physical abilities after committing a heinous crime, which is usually but not always cannibalism. In other cases they are driven to these deeds after being possessed by dark spirits or demons. And of course there are similarities to Lycaon, the king of Arcadia, who Zeus turned into a wolf as punishment for trying to trick the god into eating human flesh. In my personal opinion, their origin being described as something of this nature, as some sort of curse or consequence, would be far more interesting than if they simply developed their shape-shifting abilities for the purpose of adapting to their worldĺs environment.

Werewolves should not be part of the Zarosian Empire. Humans, Mahjarrat, vampyres, chthonians, avernic, ilujanka. All of these races lived within the empire and all of them had a purpose. All of the most important roles - politics, architecture, agriculture, military, etc. - have been filled. Werewolves should not just be shoehorned in, there is no need to create a function in Zarosian society just for them.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

26-Apr-2016 19:31:07 - Last edited on 15-Jul-2016 19:34:25 by ChaosáLupus

ChaosáLupus

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Giving the werewolves a unique history on Gielinor would be much more interesting than just dubbing them another member of the crowd. It would also be nice to differentiate them more from vampyres as they have, for the most part, just been their servile dogs up until this point. That is not to say that their history should not be connected to the vampyres, just that it does not need to be a parallel. Additionally, there is also nothing to suggest that werewolves were even present on Gielinor prior to the Third Age. In fact, as far as I am aware, the earliest that their presence can be confirmed is during the events of the barrows brothersĺ campaign.

Instead of placing their arrival on Gielinor during the Second Age, I think that it would be much more appropriate if they first appeared at some point during the God Wars. They could have been transported by a god at some point or first become werewolves while already on Gielinor. One interesting possibility is that there is more to the blooding than we know and that Malak created werewolves by forcing humans to carry out the ritual. This could create an interesting dynamic if Malak wanted to claim dominion over them despite their claim to independence.

Different characters should have different personalities. As things currently stand there are very few prominent werewolves. The only individuals with unique personalities, aside from the joke characters like Scrambles and Shanty Claws, are Garĺrth and Roavar. While the majority of werewolves who have come of age have been similarly affected by the blooding, they should still have differing, and in some cases conflicting, opinions and mentalities in certain cases.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

26-Apr-2016 19:31:11 - Last edited on 03-May-2016 20:51:23 by ChaosáLupus

ChaosáLupus

ChaosáLupus

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One key situation should be the topic of their freedom from the vampyres. While those at the Salve in River of Blood were quick to claim independence, there are still those, like Roavar and Jerrod, who have always been too terrified of their vampyre lords to disobey them. Perhaps their older age has provided them with access to darker secrets than the younger members of their kin have access to...

The story should be told through a fantasy lense. Whichever direction their story ends up going, it should be told as if it were a part of the fantasy genre. While Runescape is a fantasy game at heart, many of its main stories, the Myreque quests included, overlap with the territory of science fiction. In some cases that works well, in others not so much. I would just like people to keep in mind that a story of this kind is not necessarily better just because every fantastical element is accompanied by a thorough explanation.

Character involvement, who should be play a role? Obviously, the answer to that question depends on what sort of story is going to be told.

That said, there are a few obvious candidates, the most notable being Garĺrth. For anyone who is not aware, Garĺrth is a character exclusive to the novels. He is Jerrod** nephew as well as a an old companion of Kara-Meir. He is also the only grown werewolf who has been confirmed to have evaded the blooding. All in all, he is an ideal major protagonist.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

26-Apr-2016 19:31:16 - Last edited on 27-Apr-2016 15:27:18 by ChaosáLupus

ChaosáLupus

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Another popular choice would be Jerrod, who most people probably remember from Dishonour Among Thieves. The catch here is that his involvement would require the series to take place during the Sixth Age as he was imprisoned by Handelmort during the year 169 of the Fifth Age. Personally, I'd prefer for this story to take place in the Fifth Age.

Being one of the elders of Canifis and notably servile to the vampyres, Roavar should probably also play a role. His perspective could create an interesting counterbalance to those wishing to claim independence.

King Roald definitely needs to be involved as well, as the face of Misthalin, whose citizens are now at great risk. A single werewolf was enough to create a mass panic throughout northern Asgarnia, an entire village is a whole other story.

The Society of Owls, which is also currently exclusive to the novels. They are a secret society based in Misthalin who are dedicated to protecting the realm from Morytanian threats. The activities of some of their members have been shady, however, so their involvement would create an interesting dynamic as well as introduce even more interesting characters to the game.

Malakĺs ambition and greed, as well as his lordship of Canifis, make him an ideal antagonist. Very little is currently known about him other than the fact that he is both cruel and incredibly powerful. This would be a great opportunity to expand more on his character (and finally give him a graphical update).

As for characters who should definitely not be involved, it would be very disappointing if gods were directly involved in this series. It should primarily focus on the werewolves and the results of their own decisions, not the commands from a god.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

26-Apr-2016 19:31:19 - Last edited on 27-Apr-2016 15:35:03 by ChaosáLupus

ChaosáLupus

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Also, while Vanescula is an interesting character, she should not have a major role. Involving her would take the series to larger scale and make it less focused. She also has a reason not to get involved, which is that the werewolves are only a threat because we made it unable for the vampyres to cross the Salve and keep them on a leash.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

26-Apr-2016 19:31:22 - Last edited on 27-Apr-2016 15:35:11 by ChaosáLupus

ChaosáLupus

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You may now post. Please leave your own thoughts on what you would like to see if we ever get a werewolf quest/series.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

26-Apr-2016 19:31:34 - Last edited on 27-Apr-2016 00:29:00 by ChaosáLupus

ChaosáLupus

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MegicaláMan said:
Tbh I just really want to see their Zamorak Halloween Festival at some point as an event, or even a side event.

Really, since they are pushing for this werewolf spin off, it would make sense, and it could give us a teaser into some of the lore/plot points for the future quest.


Yeah, I've been advocating a Festival of Zamorak event for a long time, although I think it would be better as a permanent miniquest. It could be done a lot easier now since all of the werewolves have access to Misthalin and other F2P areas.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

26-Apr-2016 19:42:49

ChaosáLupus

ChaosáLupus

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sir eos lee said:
I'm not opposed to the idea.

Is it a 1 time quest or a new series?

Sadly, I do want other quest lines (Pirate, Desert, etc) to be wrapped up before we introduce new ones. (At this point, Elemental Workshop can stay buried.)


It's not even confirmed that it will happen for sure, it's just been something they've wanted to do for a while and with RoB's release there's more opportunity for it. IMO it should definitely be a series, I don't think they'd do it justice with just one quest.

As for other quest series, I agree that most unfinished major Fifth Age quests series should take priority, although I think they should have taken priority before TWW too.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

26-Apr-2016 19:46:44

ChaosáLupus

ChaosáLupus

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Balustan said:
Agree with no Zarosian Empire connection, agree with no gods, agree with no Vanescula, agree with them being human. I do wonder if they need to be brought at all though or rather they could just occur throughout the God Wars due to events that happened during them. Agree with the fantasy lense.

I wonder if the Society of Owls could be villains as well or rather antagonists I don't want to dub them outright villains. H.A.M who we haven't seen in a while and without the pathetic Sigmund running them could also be an excellent choice for appearances. I also think some of the Wereeolves themselves should be villains though some shouldn't.

My biggest hope is to see them spread to the world and for this to be a less linear series than we usually see. More akin to what Mahjarrat was though maybe with a clear starting point.


I think the Society of Owls should contain a lot of antiheroes. Some would legitimately want to end a threat to the citizens of Misthalin, but they all have loved ones who were killed by creatures of Morytania so revenge should also be a major motivation. And, of course, there are those who would want a werewolf dead no matter what they were like.

Then, on the flip side, werewolves would be trying to provide for their families by killing humans. Some of them could look for other means of survival while others wouldn't trust humans enough to compromise with them. I think it's a great opportunity to portray both sides as grey, each with its share of people just looking to harm others.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

26-Apr-2016 20:17:21

ChaosáLupus

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@ Lime

1.) Because it'd be redundant and boring. It's been done with plenty of other races and we already know a lot about the Zarosian Empire. It's time to explore other civilizations, not shove more races under the same roof. Placing them in the Zarosian Empire during the Second Age just makes them a hidden face among the crowd. There's also not a gap that needs to be filled anyway, meaning that they'd just be shoehorned in. Plus, it'd be strange since there is no reference to werewolves ever existing in the empire.

2.) No, that's like saying that all wolves are domesticated dogs. One is the other but it's not always true of the inverse. It doesn't mean that all humans are werewolves just because all werewolves are humans. And it should be an actual curse in my opinion. I think that their origin story would be much more appealing if it was dark.

3.) Not if they explain it in-game, just like any other newly introduced character. You should really read the novels since you haven't already, I strongly recommend them.

4.) I disagree, I think it should definitely be a series. An entire village of sapient man-eating beasts now have access to human lands, that's not exactly a small issue. Besides, Mods Ana and Osborne have always talked about it being a series. That could change, but I think it'd be a huge mistake to gloss over things so quickly. I can't tell if your werewolf nation suggestion is serious, but if it is I really don't see much storytelling value there.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

27-Apr-2016 04:01:42 - Last edited on 27-Apr-2016 05:55:38 by ChaosáLupus

ChaosáLupus

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Kittyphantom said:
The novels actually do have like one line mentioning this in passing. Either your idea is coincidentally the same or you're drawing off of that - Either case, I support, if only because I'm pro-novel. :P


What are you referring to specifically?
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

27-Apr-2016 15:14:16

ChaosáLupus

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Kemtros said:
River of Blood "ended" the Fifth Age story of the Myreque, so if there were to be any exploration of the potential that River of Blood opened, it should take place in the Sixth Age. I agree to no Vanescula, if only because it would fit in with the werewolves declaring their independence. I personally would rather see the conspirators here. They played a minor role in River of Blood, mostly since they weren't a priority, but they brought werewolves across the Salve.

The difficulty would be reconciling these ideas. The werewolves were just one of many tools to the conspirators, whose purpose may be uncertain in the Sixth Age, especially after the Battle of Lumbridge. Instead of the Zarosian Empire, I'd rather bring the werewolves closer to how they align with Zamorak.


IMO it should definitely remain in the Fifth Age because placing it in the Sixth Age would make it so much less focused. I want to see the werewolves acting on their own, not just as servants enacting someone else's will again. Jerrod is already set up for use in the Sixth Age, so they could always just put him in more Zamorak content.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

27-Apr-2016 16:19:35

ChaosáLupus

ChaosáLupus

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Kittyphantom said:
ChaosáLupus said:
Kittyphantom said:
The novels actually do have like one line mentioning this in passing. Either your idea is coincidentally the same or you're drawing off of that - Either case, I support, if only because I'm pro-novel. :P


What are you referring to specifically?


They had behaved so wickedly and with such avarice that they had become wolves.


Interesting. I don't recall that specific line, do you remember approximately where in the novels it's said? It'll probably be passed off as just a rumor but I think it'd be the more interesting route.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

27-Apr-2016 19:11:17

ChaosáLupus

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HalfáCentaur said:
ChaosáLupus said:


IMO it should definitely remain in the Fifth Age because placing it in the Sixth Age would make it so much less focused.


Nah, I think its high time the morytania series caught up with the rest of the game world.

At the moments its kind of a mix between the werewolves not thinking Vanescule is strong and wanting more rights (since the humans seem to be rising in power now). Having it set in the sixth age gives the werewolves a lot more ammunition to use as reasons to rebel, and opens up Jerrod for use.

I really feel without it being in the 6th age, we aren't getting much closer to actually closing the loop on all the dangling threads of the series. If the alliance members knew today Saradomin had returned, some of them have very little reason to continue sticking around in Morytania, particularly Aeonis**, who is still very likely to be a splinter cell member.


While I think werewolves rebelling would have been the best course for their story, I think we're past the point where that'd be the most interesting option as a main focus. It would be a bit redundant if done right after the Myreque series, sort of a rehash but with werewolves instead of humans. That said, I think the matter of their independence is something that really needs to be addressed. RoB made it seem like it happened way too easily. Maybe the first quest could deal with that with the following one or two focusing on their conflict within Misthalin. I don't think it necessarily needs to be a full rebellion though.

As for the series taking place in the Sixth Age, I still think it'd be a mistake. It'd be far too easy for Zamorak to just show up and say he needs the werewolves of Canifis to fight for him, it's not like Malak could do much to protest. I think werewolves can still play a role in the Sixth Age, especially Jerrod, I'd just prefer that their own series didn't.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

27-Apr-2016 19:17:31 - Last edited on 27-Apr-2016 19:20:34 by ChaosáLupus

ChaosáLupus

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Lethalintent said:
I think just about everyone in our delightful community knows how much it'd mean to you.

While I'm not against it, I really can't see a full series being made out of it. I think you're a one man army on this one.

There's certainly a small story to tell, but that can easily be compacted into one quest.


I've talked to quite a few people who are interested in a werewolf quest series, I'm just the most vocal about it. There are almost always questions about it whenever there are Morytania-related Q&A's and I think even more people would be open to it if they knew it was directly tied into the Myreque series since it's one of the most popular in the game.

I think the story would require two or three quests in total, one is definitely not enough. The issue of their independence really needs more focus than it was given and then there's also the issue of conflict between them and Misthalin and trying to resolve that issue.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

27-Apr-2016 21:18:37

ChaosáLupus

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HalfáCentaur said:
ChaosáLupus said:


As for the series taking place in the Sixth Age, I still think it'd be a mistake. It'd be far too easy for Zamorak to just show up and say he needs the werewolves of Canifis to fight for him, it's not like Malak could do much to protest. I think werewolves can still play a role in the Sixth A
[/quote]

Thing is, if we have a werewolf quest, say set it after dishonor among thieves, and say that news of BoL has spread slowly to canifis, then we can address the possibility that many werewolves don't want to leave canifis or fight with Zamorak.

Jerrod could come in trying to recruit people for Zamorak. Zamorak wouldn't want to show up for fear of Saradomin showing and starting a wholly unnecessary conflict where he has nothing to win.

The fear of Saradomin's return, in this regard, would help keep the vyres in line and keep them from starting something.[/quote]

I can see that working as an explanation for why neither gods get involved, but I don't really see a good reason to set it in the Sixth Age aside from the possibility of Jerrod's involvement. Personally, I'd much rather see them struggling to free themselves and interacting with the people of Misthalin than debating whether or not to fight for Zamorak. They've always been loyal to him as far as we've seen, it would seem like that issue arose from nowhere.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

27-Apr-2016 21:22:54

ChaosáLupus

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Balustan said:
I am pretty much where Lupus is with wanting the series. Though my thinking is more 1 quest will deal with the immediate aftermath of events in Myreque (it can be set in the 6th age Idc) which would start things off with the Werewolves. Right now they are isolated in one place and my preference would be to see them not be constrained to a single story but rather spread to various places in the world.

Some of these would warrant stand alone quests some may require series. Similar to how humans have multiple series or stand alone quests.


The way I'm thinking right now, I think it'd be best if the first quest dealt largely with their claim to independence (but I don't think it should be a full blown rebellion), while a second and possibly third quest deals with their conflict with humans in the lands west of the Salve and the resolution to that.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

27-Apr-2016 21:48:12

ChaosáLupus

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@ Centaur

I'm not opposed to Sixth Age content, I just think that more things should be wrapped up in the Fifth Age first. I'm all for a quest about Hazeel retaking Ardougne with Jerrod as a major character since he fits in so well, but I don't think it should be part of the main werewolf series. Maybe something affected by its events though.

As for Shanty Claws, I'm honestly fine with him being a comedic character and would really like to see him play a minor role in some sort of pirate-related content.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

27-Apr-2016 22:09:22

ChaosáLupus

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CaptaináLime said:
ChaosáLupus said:
@ Centaur

I'm not opposed to Sixth Age content, I just think that more things should be wrapped up in the Fifth Age first.


Except having quests in the Fifth Age will almost always create more problems than it's worth - unless the Werewolf storyline is fundamentally based on an absent god, which it isn't, putting things in the Fifth age will really ***** with the causality and create issues that will make lorehounds cry.


Like?
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

27-Apr-2016 23:26:49

ChaosáLupus

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TheáMather1 said:
HalfáCentaur said:
Another big question that should be dealt with-
Can werewolves cross the salve still?
That means they effectively have no food problems, but this could really make this whole misthalin situation.
Now they can.

Reason they couldn't before was because the rite of passage enforced upon them by Drakan stained them with vampyre essence somehow, making them register to the blessing of the Salve as vampyres resulting in their death upon an attempted crossing.
However now the blessing of the Salve has been changed to act as a cure for vampyrism, so all their stain would do is trigger the blessing to clean it off them.


The blooding is what prevented them from crossing before and it was carried out by Malak, at least in the late Fifth Age. Lowerniel didn't have anything to do with it to our knowledge unless it was mentioned somewhere in a Q&A.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

28-Apr-2016 21:29:39

ChaosáLupus

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Well Nomad's Elegy was master and required a GM quest. Really, they should just revamp all quest levels to reflect the difficulty of the quests themselves, they shouldn't have anything to do with requirements.

As for Shanty Claws, although I can see a serious take working to some degree, I'd still rather see him as a comedic character in pirate content. Not a joke character (Brassica Prime), just someone whose personality is funny.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

30-Apr-2016 19:39:44

ChaosáLupus

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AutumnáElite said:
ChaosáLupus said:
IMO it should definitely remain in the Fifth Age because placing it in the Sixth Age would make it so much less focused.


I don't see any truth in this.

Sixth age series don't have to focus or include gods at all. Although it would be possible to use this as a lense to vastly increase the likelihood of it being made. There's nothing having it in the fifth age adds that couldn't be done on the sixth age & you are just inviting whining for not having the River of Blood requirement unless you want to vastly restrict the series. Like Java and NXT, we should move to one for a cleaner experience.


No, IMO it should definitely have the RoB requirement, although I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't add it, especially if it took place in the Sixth Age. But I think all quests should have proper quest requirements anyway.

And I disagree, I think the Sixth Age would take away from the series. It's much less interesting when Saradomin is fully capable of teleporting in and vaporizing anyone he wants on the spot.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

01-May-2016 16:31:36

ChaosáLupus

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AutumnáElite said:
ChaosáLupus said:
And I disagree, I think the Sixth Age would take away from the series. It's much less interesting when Saradomin is fully capable of teleporting in and vaporizing anyone he wants on the spot.


I mean, theoretically he could but you could just not write that it? Sixth age does not mean gods, its a time period. You can have a sixth age quest with no gods appearing. It just doesn't make sense to have something in the past unless you are using a specific feature as a plot point.


They'd have to address it or it would just be poor writing. It'd be stupid of Saradomin to do nothing if werewolves were spilling into Misthalin and killing his followers.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

01-May-2016 17:49:52

ChaosáLupus

ChaosáLupus

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Hazeel said:
ChaosáLupus said:
AutumnáElite said:
ChaosáLupus said:
And I disagree, I think the Sixth Age would take away from the series. It's much less interesting when Saradomin is fully capable of teleporting in and vaporizing anyone he wants on the spot.


I mean, theoretically he could but you could just not write that it? Sixth age does not mean gods, its a time period. You can have a sixth age quest with no gods appearing. It just doesn't make sense to have something in the past unless you are using a specific feature as a plot point.


They'd have to address it or it would just be poor writing. It'd be stupid of Saradomin to do nothing if werewolves were spilling into Misthalin and killing his followers.


Because when has Saradomin ignored the prayers of his followers? =P


It's not exactly a smart tactical move either, better to have them at his disposal rather than fighting off invading werewolves.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

01-May-2016 18:10:26

ChaosáLupus

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HalfáCentaur said:
Original message details are unavailable.
River of Blood essentially takes Morytania up to the 6th Age - we do not think any further quests in that area would be 5th Age based.


And I gotta disagree with you Lupus. Right now, the alliance is pretty good for Saradomin, there's little reason for him to get involved, simply for fear of wrecking the thing. Zamorak may want to recruit some people from there- but seeing as he's weaker than Sara atm and any fight he started would be on top of his followers home ground- there's little he could get by risking a visit. Which is why it'd make sense to send say Jerrod to recruit werewolves instead.


Also- if there are werewolves still kidnapping humans (which would technically be illegal now), maybe now they have to play it smart, because any reported kidnappings in Varrock would catch Vanescula's attention.

So- they could just kidnap homeless people and muggers from Varrock. NPC* that wouldn't really be missed. I'm sure there's still a market among the true borns for real blood- but this could solve that problem.

I doubt King Roald would think twice about the criminal element going missing- also, Jerrod could have Straven kidnapped as a form of vengeance for selling him into slavery.


Saradomin sends in a few projections, waves his hand, problem solved. I'm not against the series being Sixth Age, I just don't see a good reason to place it in that time frame when there are so many things they'd have to work around.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

01-May-2016 22:22:52

ChaosáLupus

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HalfáCentaur said:
ChaosáLupus said:


Saradomin sends in a few projections, waves his hand, problem solved. I'm not against the series being Sixth Age, I just don't see a good reason to place it in that time frame when there are so many things they'd have to work around.


Waves his hands and does what exactly? He's not omnicient- if the werewolves are getting away with things that the vyres don't know about- Saradomin won't know either.

Besides, you could just say he's busy trying to figure out how to resurrect the centaurs anyway.


He doesn't have to be omniscient to kill someone. And he can project himself to other locations so his involvement with resurrecting the centaurs doesn't really make a difference. Again, I'm not against the series taking place in the Sixth Age, it's not like it can't be done, there are just things that would have to be explained that could just be avoided entirely by placing it in the Fifth Age. Placing it in the Sixth Age just needlessly creates extra work.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

01-May-2016 22:50:22

ChaosáLupus

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@ Centaur

What would affect the alliance, the werewolves or the Sixth Age? Why would it unless the gods were to get heavily involved? The werewolves have claimed independence and most of the vampyres aren't loyal to any god. The splinter group has basically been made irrelevant, so I don't find them to be interesting at all anyway.

I'm aware, although I'm not sure of your point. Mod Osborne also confirmed that the werewolves are their own race from their own world.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

01-May-2016 23:12:48 - Last edited on 01-May-2016 23:13:11 by ChaosáLupus

ChaosáLupus

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HalfáCentaur said:
ChaosáLupus said:
@ Centaur

What would affect the alliance, the werewolves or the Sixth Age? Why would it unless the gods were to get heavily involved? The werewolves have claimed independence and most of the vampyres aren't loyal to any god. The splinter group has basically been made irrelevant, so I don't find them to be interesting at all anyway.

I'm aware, although I'm not sure of your point. Mod Osborne also confirmed that the werewolves are their own race from their own world.


Well, we'd have to assume the splinter group would get involved again- at least Aeonis*g would be made more militant by Saradomin's return (they've also yet to resolve the fact he's likely a splinter group member).

Assuming the werewolves are still Zamorakian- they'd have to be affected in some way by his return, and the evident lack of their being werewolves in his armies.


I don't see any good reason for them to get involved, they don't really have any impact on the story.

I'm not sure how placing the werewolf series in the Fifth Age would mean we can't see their reaction to Zamorak's return. We've already gotten Jerrod's take and it'd be no hard task to have other werewolves working for him in the Sixth Age if people wanted to see that.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

01-May-2016 23:31:59

ChaosáLupus

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BlaivSiocled said:
Whilst I'm quite for a Werewolf Quest in principle, I can't say I like your suggestions.

You mention they are unique in being able to switch between two forms. What about Vampyres? They have their natural, flying form, and their "humanoid" form taught by Zaros.

In general, I feel a better way to look at potential lore is "What do we know?" rather than "What do I want?"


Vampyres can turn into mist as well as a variety of human forms. What don't you like about which ideas?

The sad truth is that we currently know very little about the werewolves and are in need of more lore in that area. If you're interested, please support my Runelabs idea here.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

03-May-2016 17:19:12

ChaosáLupus

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@ Blaiv

That's what I mean, the werewolves should effectively be the descendants of cursed humans. Honestly, I think that makes them much more unique and interesting. Like I said, there are already plenty of different races from their own planets. It also just makes more sense for them to be connected to humans in that way.

I disagree. There is no reference to the werewolves being part of the Zarosian Empire. Just because they could be placed within it, it doesn't mean that they should. I'm opposed to it because I'd like to see them given their own unique history, not made to share one with a bunch of other races.

Yes, but unfortunately it's not. There are plenty of weak characters without any real personality of their own, they're just part of a hive mind. That's currently the case with all the werewolves we've met in-game, with the exception of joke characters like Shanty Claws and Scrambles.

Yes, Gar'rth is half human.

Again, I'm not opposed to it taking place within the Sixth Age (that's almost definitely when it will take place anyway), I just don't see a good reason to place it there.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

03-May-2016 18:15:33 - Last edited on 03-May-2016 18:17:11 by ChaosáLupus

ChaosáLupus

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Hguoh said:
Raleirosen said:
ChaosáLupus said:
I disagree. There is no reference to the werewolves being part of the Zarosian Empire. Just because they could be placed within it, it doesn't mean that they should. I'm opposed to it because I'd like to see them given their own unique history, not made to share one with a bunch of other races.

They're not mutually exclusive. Placing werewolves under the umbrella of the Zarosian empire, for whatever time period, doesn't preclude the possibility of a unique history. I could see Jagex using the empire as a quick shorthand for their background though, so I understand the concern.

But considering most incarnations of lycanthropy involve an originating curse or infection of some kind, I wouldn't be particularly worried about werewolves getting (to coin a phrase) purplewashed.


It wouldn't exactly be that difficult to do both. For example, we've only heard about Ripper Demons being in the empire just before it's collapse. Given the hints that they were essentially created as a method of weaponizing the 'useless' humans, would it really be so much of a stretch to say that they weren't the only experiment of their kind?

Given their shapeshifting capabilities, perhaps werewolves were created to be spies (or maybe assassins for situations where subtlety was more important). This would give them a small link to the empire, a reason to side with Zamorak (the originals were likely experimented on against their will, after all), an explanation for their presence in the 3rd age and apparent absence in the 2nd, and still plays off of the 'cursed humans' trope


But that's my point, it's less interesting if they're just another one of the bunch.

We already know quite a bit about the Zarosian Empire, it'd be nice to start exploring other times and civilizations.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

03-May-2016 23:59:46

ChaosáLupus

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@ Hguoh

The werewolves don't necessarily have to have become what they are now with the goal of weaponization. Personally, I'd much prefer that it be a consequence of their own actions.

Their origin doesn't have to be a linked to a god. I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to it, depending on the direction taken there, but it's certainly not the only option. Lycanthropy can be considered both a blessing and a curse. As far as the latter goes, they often find it difficult to control themselves, making them both dangerous to those around them and reducing their free will in favor of instinctual behavior.

Not at all. Their origin could easily be placed at some point during the God Wars. The Third Age is currently just a cluster of major events without much detail, it could use more focus. And the werewolves could still have originated in the Second Age without living within the Zarosian Empire. Personally, I'd much rather that they lived in Hallowvale, so we could learn more the area at the time (that wouldn't be ideal either, but better than the Zarosian Empire).
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

04-May-2016 02:01:06

ChaosáLupus

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Another thing I should add to the front page: don't reveal that there's really a bunch of werewolves living somewhere we've never been. That trope is getting real old.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

11-May-2016 03:02:19

ChaosáLupus

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N7spongy said:
ChaosáLupus said:
Another thing I should add to the front page: don't reveal that there's really a bunch of werewolves living somewhere we've never been. That trope is getting real old.
Yea :/. But at least it does explain Roavar's dialogue as to how were apparently a new werewolf in Canifis.


We could be from Darkmeyer.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

11-May-2016 05:36:00

ChaosáLupus

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AncientáDrew said:
ChaosáLupus said:
Unfortunately, werewolves are now confirmed to have lived in the Zarosian Empire during the Second Age.
Perhaps they came from Vampyrium and had been natural rivals with the vyres for aeons?


I'd rather they didn't. For one there's no mention of them yet, they'd just come out of nowhere similar to the Zarosian Empire reveal. It'd also be more lazy writing, just lumping them in with the vampyres all throughout history. IMO it'd be much more interesting if they actually had their own stories and background lore and weren't just reactionary to everything the vampyres do or vice versa.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

11-Jul-2016 14:22:36

ChaosáLupus

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@ Sepulchre

They could still give werewolves an interesting origin, but unless Jagex has changed their minds, they're their own race from their own world.

No matter what their final decision on the origin is, the Zarosian Empire reveal restricts the timeline for it and comes out of nowhere. Not that the reveal was surprising, I was expecting it, but it seems pretty odd that, even in a fantasy world, there's no other mention of people turning into humanoid man-eating wolves prior to the Third Age. They could have done something interesting with them first appearing during the God Wars, but as things currently stand it appears that they'll just be another race shoved into the Empire who converted to Zamorakianism.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

14-Jul-2016 22:35:36

ChaosáLupus

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Svigris said:
I think ages ago I had a theory of the werewolves that they were kind of just an accident some Druids tried to get closer to nature and got a bit closer than they would have liked. Then said Druids got consumed by the empire. Zamorak later found and recruited them letting them out of Sennestin.


Yeah, personally I hope it's written so that they were humans who dabbled in something unknown to them and were cursed as a result. It'd make more sense for them to be placed in the Zarosian Empire in the Second Age if it was covered up until Zamorak rebelled and decided to make use of them during the God Wars, but oddly enough it appears that they were normal members of everyday society.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

15-Jul-2016 00:22:02

ChaosáLupus

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Sepulchre said:
ChaosáLupus said:
Svigris said:
I think ages ago I had a theory of the werewolves that they were kind of just an accident some Druids tried to get closer to nature and got a bit closer than they would have liked. Then said Druids got consumed by the empire. Zamorak later found and recruited them letting them out of Sennestin.


Yeah, personally I hope it's written so that they were humans who dabbled in something unknown to them and were cursed as a result. It'd make more sense for them to be placed in the Zarosian Empire in the Second Age if it was covered up until Zamorak rebelled and decided to make use of them during the God Wars, but oddly enough it appears that they were normal members of everyday society.
This is basically what I suggested at the end of my post, yes. Experiments.


Depends on the type of experiment. I'd rather they don't do some sort of mad doctor Frankenstein monster science experiment. Humans facing the consequences of dabbling in some sort of dark magic/ritual that they weren't familiar with, though, I'd be completely on board for. Although I'd prefer either to simply writing them as their own race who evolved naturally.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

15-Jul-2016 19:33:03

ChaosáLupus

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Svigris said:
Hazeel said:
Given that werewolf supposedly have their own homeworld, I always figured Zaros just forced them to suppress themselves as humans like the vyres do.


If I remember that's from a jmod quote or something like that not directly canon. I mean it's a cite but it can be backpedalled on. I'd rather see werewolves as a more localized thin rather than a cosmic multiplar thing.


"I'd rather see werewolves as a more localized thin rather than a cosmic multiplar thing." I agree with this.

As for the quote, it's from Mod Osborne at Runefest a few years ago. He just said that the werewolves are 'their own race from their own world,' which could mean a lot of things and could definitely be altered before being implemented into the game, but that's most of what we have to go on so far. I did talk to Raven in the Lore FC about it a while back, though, and he said that, while the werewolves are considered to be their own race now, it might not always have been that way. I'm hoping that'll end up meaning they were magically altered humans, and not that they simply evolved from them.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

15-Jul-2016 23:26:18

ChaosáLupus

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Hazeel said:
Given that werewolf supposedly have their own homeworld, I always figured Zaros just forced them to suppress themselves as humans like the vyres do.


If I had to bet on it, yeah, I'd say they'll just end up being another race that Zaros discovered at some point and brought to Gielinor. I really hope they aren't that lazy when writing it, though.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

15-Jul-2016 23:28:00

ChaosáLupus

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@ Wekill

Agreed about being a Gielinorian race.

I've thought about it mostly in broad strokes, and there are a lot of different ways they could go with it that would work well, but personally, Iĺd like for it to draw some influence from the tale of Lycaon. Dabbling in black magic of their own could also make for a really interesting story. Iĺd definitely retcon the mention of Lygrass being a werewolf, which would require changing literally only one word in one of Sliskeĺs journals from Kindred Spirits. Anyway, one of the many ideas I have for a possibility...

The God Wars are in full swing and have been for the span of at least several human generations. A community of simple hunter/gatherers live in a small settlement that was, until recently, secluded from most of the strife of the outside world. However, the lines of battle have shifted and now war threatens to swallow them all. Years pass and the peril creeps slowly closer. They are caught up in the bloodshed. Many of their number fall as casualties of war. They pray to Saradomin for salvation, but it never arrives.

Eventually, as victims of war, they grow desperate. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Their homeland, having been ravaged by war, no longer produces the food that they require to survive. The supply lines that they might otherwise have turned to have been cut off. Their village has been reduced to rubble. On the brink of starvation, they turn to the only option that they can see: eating their own dead. They even begin to kill those unfortunate enough to wander too close in small numbers. They donĺt discriminate. Hearing of this, Saradomin arrives and delivers punishment for their heinous crimes. He curses them and theyĺre forced to walk in the bodies of the instinctual beasts which they had come to mimic.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

16-Jul-2016 03:41:23 - Last edited on 16-Jul-2016 03:44:23 by ChaosáLupus

ChaosáLupus

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Some time later, Zamorak comes to hear of mysterious monsters that have been harrying his forces, coming in the dead of night and seemingly killing without provocation or cause beyond the sake of killing itself. The demons in their ranks dub them ôwerewolvesö (vir - pronounced the same as were - meaning ômanö in Latin). One of Zamorakĺs generals manages to snare and imprison one of these werewolves. He intends to kill it, but Zamorak stops him. The god sees potential in the miserable creature. Opportunity. He also sees Saradominĺs mark on it. He cannot reverse the process completely, nor does he wish to, but he does have the power to return some semblance of its previous self. He does so with every werewolf in the vicinity, declaring that they now possess the finest qualities of both man and beast.

Grateful for the gift that he has bestowed upon them, they develop a strong sense of loyalty to Zamorak, one rivalled only by the avernic. They quickly assimilate to life in their new godĺs army. They breed and reproduce, but slowly, for the curse that still lingers in their blood claims the lives of all but the strongest of their offspring. Despite their dwindling numbers, they carry on the fight.

By the end of the God Wars, Zamorakĺs forces are scattered and broken. What remains of the werewolves are now lost and without purpose. They revert back to their primal instincts, to what they know best. They hunt, they kill, and they survive. Generations pass and new settlements rise and fall. By the mid-Fourth Age, an old and powerful presence can be felt once again, conquerors that fought alongside their ancestors in the God Wars. Vampyres. They reach out to the werewolves and tell them of how they can fulfill their purpose. A war begins, and the werewolves rally to fight for their god once more, only this time they are fighting under the banner of the Drakans.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

16-Jul-2016 03:41:41

ChaosáLupus

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But, in the end, the war is lost. It is apparent to the werewolves that they have been manipulated, used for a false cause. They try to abandon their new masters, but to no avail. It is too late, they are trapped in the lands of Morytania, imprisoned by the River Salve. The few who remained in the west when the holy barrier was erected are killed by humans, their weaknesses exploited. And those in the east, their masters find new uses for them. They see them as dogs, and dogs can be domesticated.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

16-Jul-2016 03:41:52

ChaosáLupus

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LegoáMiester said:
Humans cursed/blessed by Zamorak, similarly to the chaos dwarves, but retaining more sentience/loyalty during the god wars? That's a decent enough origin story. What's this about "the blooding" though, some ritual? I haven't read the novels.


It's carried out by Malak when werewolves come of age. They're made to consume the blood of an innocent and it warps their minds, making them more cruel and bloodthirsty, a rite of passage of sorts. It's supposed to be a sign of fealty to Zamorak, but in reality it's what stopped most of them from crossing the Salve prior to RoB.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

16-Jul-2016 21:56:42 - Last edited on 16-Jul-2016 21:56:58 by ChaosáLupus

ChaosáLupus

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@ Wekill

Gar'rth makes it clear in the books that their behavior is completely changed once they go through the blooding.

We've only ever canonically met a handful of werewolves, and most of that is when they're doing something for or being scolded by vampyres. The werewolves we met in Darkness of Hallowvale knocked us out and would have taken us to be tithed if they hadn't already claimed other victims, the werewolf in The Lord of Vampyrium is being threatened by his master, and we never really met any of the ones in River of Blood. Jerrod is probably the most extreme example, as he's a sadistic, psychopathic mass murderer who kills children in order to make a point (and to eat, although the others in Canifis do that as well).

And of course there are jokey event characters like Larsa, Scrambles, and Shanty Claws, but even then we don't know if they've been blooded. Then there are shopkeepers in Canifis which we've never met other than Fidelio and we've watched Roavar take heat from Malak (and even in his regular dialogue he doesn't realize we're human). The rest are just random NPC's there for people to train on, and their dialogue is still pretty hostile.
The strength of the pack is the wolf and the strength of the wolf is the pack.

29-Jul-2016 02:17:56

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