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Second Age Human Empires

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Cthris

Cthris

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Post away, speculate till your hearts desired



Hello, welcome to my thread, this is my Second Age humans thread. While similar to my Humans in the Zarosian Empire thread, I hope to make this one a bit different. Its purpose is to speculate on life for humans all around gielinor, not just the Zarosian empire. There is not as much information on the other empires as there was for Zaros so this one shall contain a lot more speculation, and deduction. Usually I fully develop my theories before hand, however I want to try something new, what I have written is rather incomplete and not up to standards, what I seek for you guys to help me do is help write what you think each empire was like.

Some basic notes

In the Second Age, Runecrafting had not been discovered yet, therefor there were not a lot of runes, this means magic was not easily available to human, and was very very rare for them to have accesses too.

In the Second Age, there was a lot less technology, as Dwarves still had their magical powers so they had not reached their technological revolution. As well there was no such thing as cave goblins at this time, therefor meaning the use of electricity was almost certainly not prevelant. This essential means life was much harder in those days for every human, everywhere, not just the Zarosian empire. I am assuming it was very similar to the Dark ages in our own history.

Every Human Empire we know of was at war, or at risk of being at war during this time, therefor is should be assumed that general things that happen during war times would be going on, such as heavy taxes to fund the war, large amounts of food being needed for war, meaning less if given to the civilians, resource are going towards the war, so again less for the civilians.

11-Mar-2014 19:45:56 - Last edited on 11-Mar-2014 20:13:16 by Cthris

Cthris

Cthris

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Some Mod Quotes to keep in mind while reading the thread



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One thing you need to bear in mind when thinking about conditions in the Second and Third Ages is that I'm basing a lot of what the kingdoms and empires must have been like on human history.

We are fortunate to live in an age of astonishing luxury. For the vast majority of (real) human history, people have scrabbled and fought simply to survive from day to day. A tiny, tiny minority lived in extravagant opulence while everyone else was subject to famine, disease, war and hard work all day, every day.

So when I say something like "the Zarosian empire was a cruel and horrible place you wouldn't want to live in", I'm telling the truth, but this doesn't single the Zarosian empire out as unusual in any way.. The same thing is true of more or less every point in human history prior to about 1910.

You wouldn't have wanted to live in ancient Egypt, or ancient Rome, or ancient Greece, or medieval Europe or Mesoamerica, or Victorian Europe, or Sengoku Japan.



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The more "good" gods probably spent a lot of their time involved in the bureaucracy of the executive and judiciary of their demesnes. Depending on how sophisticated their judiciaries were, they could have spent a huge amount of time essentially serving as the "Supreme Court of Last Resort" hearing cases and making judgements.

Zamorak and Bandos I imagine spent almost all of their time on campaign, standing in tents, pointing at maps and thumping their fists on tables.

11-Mar-2014 19:46:31 - Last edited on 11-Mar-2014 19:52:56 by Cthris

Cthris

Cthris

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Other writers may disagree, and this definitely isn't canon, but I'm essentially picturing the other gods' societies as medieval, and the Zarosians as late agricultural/early industrial revolution. As Athrenn correctly points out, technological development brought with it great benefits for the world, but also suffering on a scale never before imagined.

The question of whether the gods personally intervened in order to make their societies better is an interesting one. I'm not convinced they had that much power - they could guide and advise but they couldn't fix everyone's problems by themselves.

I have trouble picturing Saradomin having much time for whiny worshippers who demand that he come and personally fertilise their poor crops. Zamorak and Bandos would be ideologically opposed to even trying. Armadyl is a possibility, but his treatment of the staff suggests some insight in the narrow line between the use and abuse of power.


Keep in mind that Mod Jacks are not cannon but as a big developer on this kind of stuff his quotes are vary valuable, and close to cannon



Hope you guys enjoy :)

11-Mar-2014 19:46:41 - Last edited on 11-Mar-2014 19:56:07 by Cthris

Cthris

Cthris

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Zarosian empire

On this thread I shall not go into vast detail about the empire, if you would like to learn more about what life was life for the Zarosian humans, check out this thread
341-342-171-65298939.


It goes into a greater debt* look at what life was truly like for humans. If you wish to dicuss the empire later in the thread, please make sure you have read this thread, thank you.

The things you should know are, The humans suffered under constant persecution from the other races, they lived in fear of being eaten or worse, punishment was extremely harsh, humans worked extremely hard with little pay, almost slave like conditions. However there were no real slaves in the empire like some of the other gods may have had, and the Zarosians had more technology and wealth then humans of another Empire
The following quote give a neat little summery of some of the factors

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The vast majority of humans in the Zarosian Empire were unsafe, unhappy and unprosperous.

Just throwing that out there.



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Of course, conditions weren't great in the Empire anyway. Would you consider working in a Victorian workhouse slavery? What about a modern sweatshop?



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The vast majority of people in the Zarosian Empire were humans.

I'm not prepared to commit on the subject of slavery but as I'm imagining it there were technically no slaves in the Empire, but there were humans whose economic conditions amounted to little better than slavery.

11-Mar-2014 19:46:50 - Last edited on 11-Mar-2014 20:14:21 by Cthris

Cthris

Cthris

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Mod Jack said:
Athrenn said:
Yeah good point about micromanaging. I wonder who enforced the laws in the empire! That would good to ask mod Jack


Laws were enforced by the church, which was the same thing as the civil bureaucracy. By the late empire Zaros trusted its running to the human leaders and Azzanadra, but even Azzanadra could only personally supervise a tiny fraction of it.

Like any human institution, I'm sure corruption and inefficiency were tremendous.

11-Mar-2014 19:47:00 - Last edited on 13-Mar-2014 12:19:08 by Cthris

Cthris

Cthris

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Saradomins Human Empire

We do not have very much to go on for the humans of the Saradominist Empire other then that we know there was a large amount of persecution towards humans. In the lore story, The Song Before the war we see that humans are not considered the same importance as a Icyene and therefor are not worth the time or resource of using the best medical service available.

"Golem limbs," someone beside me whispered. "They make them in Uzer."
"Why doesn't Elder Tasgall have one?" I asked.
"Don't be silly," my friend said. "They don't make them for humans."
(Song Before the War)

We also see that from the same sourse that the Saradominst Empire cared more about the war effort then the needs of civilain population

"You're taking too many, too soon," Tasgall said. "The village won't be able to sustain itself if you steal all our young people.

I shall asume the Saradomin counts as a good god, though many people may disagree, and assume he as Mod Jack suggested acted as a judge, jury and executioner, overhearing trials and court cases, though I think, based on Mod Jacks other quotes, that a case would have to be something big and not something petty like property lines.

Humans also were apparently all peasants or low level soldiers up to at least the Third Age

"This is why there are no humans in the High Command," Mazakon said sternly.

We also know that in Mod Jack opinion that Saradomin likely did not concern himself with humans peaty troubles.

Take note Song before the War is Third age, I included it, as right now it is the closest thing i could get to a second age account of the Saradominist empire, I felt it was still relevant as it is so unlikely that things actually would get worse in the third age then they were in the second. Also note we will get some new info in mahem.

11-Mar-2014 19:47:07 - Last edited on 16-Mar-2014 21:45:40 by Cthris

Cthris

Cthris

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Original message details are unavailable.
Other writers may disagree, and this definitely isn't canon, but I'm essentially picturing the other gods' societies as medieval, and the Zarosians as late agricultural/early industrial revolution. As Athrenn correctly points out, technological development brought with it great benefits for the world, but also suffering on a scale never before imagined.

The question of whether the gods personally intervened in order to make their societies better is an interesting one. I'm not convinced they had that much power - they could guide and advise but they couldn't fix everyone's problems by themselves.

I have trouble picturing Saradomin having much time for whiny worshippers who demand that he come and personally fertilise their poor crops. Zamorak and Bandos would be ideologically opposed to even trying. Armadyl is a possibility, but his treatment of the staff suggests some insight in the narrow line between the use and abuse of power.


The humans were also very poor, even more so then the Zarosian humans as seen in Jacks opinion.

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We haven't decided what the Saradominist lands were like yet.

Off the top of my head (and this is just me thinking through an idea) I would say that Saradomin treated his people better than Zaros did. However, the Zarosians had better access to technology and education.

I'd tentatively suggest that the Zarosian humans were materially better off but the Saradominists were happier.



But there is the fact that humans were happier, the extra freedom and less work would have allowed the humans to form better bonds and friendships with their neighbors, this extra human interaction could have gone a long way in making sure life was was better for the humans. Also the humans did not have to fear being eaten or killed by other Saradominist like the Zarosians did, this would definitely made life better for them.

11-Mar-2014 19:47:15 - Last edited on 11-Mar-2014 20:15:46 by Cthris

Cthris

Cthris

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So there for I speculate that life was quite horrible compared to todays average life for Saradominist, and was not much better then the Zarosians.

11-Mar-2014 19:47:24 - Last edited on 11-Mar-2014 20:02:52 by Cthris

Cthris

Cthris

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The Desert Empire

The Desert as we have seen is very much like the ancient Egyptian society. We do not know much about what life was like for the egyptians, and our only witness was a pharoqueen so we get a sort of squwered look on the Desert Empire. Though one thing that should be noted is that the Desert was not a Desert in the second age, it was in fact a very lush land, filled with trees and grass

Senliten: I was, in life, ruler of these lands from the plains of Uzer to the forests of Ullek. From the new settlement of Sophanem to the untamed hunting grounds of the Bedabin.
Player: You talk of forests and plains, what kinds of lands were these?
Senliten: Lands rich in resources, granite, sandstone, timber and game. You seem surprised by this?


We know that the Desert folk has a dictorial like system, which is where Pharos the words of power, and what they said goes.

We know that unlike the other empires the Desert folk did indeed have slaves, as in Do No Evil, Sennliten tells us a tale of how she got away from her elderly watcher, becuase of this she was almost killed by a Jackal, Instead of Senlitten being punished, the Watcher was tied to a stake and left to die in the middle of the desert. When Sennliten tells the player this, they are shocked, yet Sennlitten passes it off as nothing.
This means that the elite had little to no care about the lives of those below them, and that Desert justice was harsh and unfair, and only served the elite.

11-Mar-2014 19:47:32 - Last edited on 11-Mar-2014 20:03:49 by Cthris

Cthris

Cthris

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How ever the Desert folk did have one thing that it seems the other empires did not, they had a large amount of resourses "Lands rich in resources, granite, sandstone, timber and game" (Sennliten) These extra resourse would have allowed most if not all humans to have a fair diet, and at least a good shelter. As well it did not seem to me like Sennliten was a cruel and evil dictator, and did care about her followers, though she did seem to hold thier lives in far less value then her own.
Also the Desert allowed a lot of freedom in Religion it seems, Uzer became a Saradominist City and Saradominist mages made a alliance with Elidness.

Of the three Empires talk about so far I would say life in the Desert was the worst of the three, with cruel, unfair punishment systems, a dictorial system where the elite walked on the backs of the poor, I would say the average human in the desert were unhappy, and not in a good place.

11-Mar-2014 19:47:45 - Last edited on 11-Mar-2014 20:04:16 by Cthris

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