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History of the Kinshra - Edits

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ModáStu

ModáStu

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Some of the writers of this text have requested revisions to the version that made it into the game. I'm posting this thread so you can discuss and agree among you what those changes will be.

What I'd like from this discussion is an agreed bullet-point list quoting the text you want to change, and the replacement text.

When you're in agreement on what changes you want, let me know and I'll implement these changes in a single bugfix, to minimise the impact on other departments.

Bear in mind that as before, the changes will go through editing and lore checking, so the finished product may not contain exactly the text you write. It's rare for a first draft to be included verbatim without finding room for improvement, and that's standard procedure for text that goes into the game.

Thanks again for contributing the text for this book.


For easy reference, I've posted the full text of the current in-game book below:

Preface

This work is an attempt to archive and catalogue the early history of the order of the Kinshra. Their early days have largely been forgotten in favour of the bitter rivalry between the Kinshra and the White Knights of Falador.

By searching through city archives, interviewing veteran White Knights and Kinshra soldiers, and reviewing what little historical texts do offer on impactful events, I have attempted to create a near-complete account of the order's dawn.

It is the author's hope that this text may remind the reader how this often-misunderstood order of knights forged the kingdom of Asgarnia we know today.

Poule Scryant, on commission of Lord Daquarius Rennard

Chapter 1

To understand the origin of the Kinshra, one must be familiar with the time in which these events took place. Nowadays, man lives in relative peace, without fear of a violent and sudden death. The Fourth Age, however, was different.

Even though the gods had agreed many centuries ago to cease their wars for the sake of the world, the mortal races remained in bitter conflict. Each strove for superiority, for land and resources. With each side gaining no foothold over the other, the fighting seemed endless.

It was the Fremmenik discovery of rune essence that changed this. The ability to craft runestones, which had been lost for millennia, gained humans advantage over the other races.

Using their magic, the humans claimed the lands for their own, ushering Gielinor into the Fifth Age. As Botolph proudly declared, it was 'the Age of Man'.

Chapter 2

The borders of the ancient realm of Misthalin expanded, and tribes of men, hungry for sanctuary, readily pledged themselves to King Botolph Remanis of Varrock.

The tribes of the west, however, remained reluctant to sacrifice their independence. With no wizards of their own, they remained vulnerable to the other races.

A small kingdom of a handful of villages had existed here for centuries, ruled at this time by King Raddallin of the Donblas tribe. It was also home to an order of the White Knights, who acted as the guardians of the west against invading races. However, the protection they offered could not hope to equal that of Misthalin's many orders of mages.

The knights attempted to persuade King Raddallin to sacrifice their sovereignty and merge with Misthalin for protection. With the other races being driven out of Misthalin and into the lands of the western tribes, it appeared they had no choice.

Indeed, all territory between the treacherous slopes of White Wolf Mountain and the sunny docks of Port Lina may well have been part of modern Misthalin, were it not for the events that followed.

Chapter 3

Curiously enough, it was from Varrock that another option presented itself. Lord Valzin, a wealthy nobleman, saw opportunity in the chaos...the chance to forge a new kingdom for his favoured god, Zamorak.

The orders of magi at that time contained many dark wizards, also followers of the Lord of Chaos and Death. Although they were men of a very different type from Lord Valzin, he managed to persuade them to help. Thus, it was that a man of Varrock delivered to King Raddallin and the White Knights the means of retaining their independence.

King Raddallin was only one of many tribal leaders, but Lord Valzin convinced him it was possible to unify the others. Raddallin would be king not only of the Donblas, but also of all the lands west of the Lum, and the men within them.

Chapter 4

Supposedly, even then the White Knights held suspicion of Lord Valzin's proposal. Raddallin decided to accept the nobleman's offer, and began unifying the smaller tribes and settlements, ever guided by Valzin. Soon, the western tribes, with the dark wizards' help, moved to expand their domain and overpower the other races.

As King Raddallin and his kingdom grew in influence, so too did Lord Valzin. Four years into the new age, the day came that the nobleman persuaded Raddallin to allow him to form his own order of warriors, so that Lord Valzin could better aid the expansion of their kingdom.

Valzin argued that faith was a great motivator in creating effective warriors. The White Knights of Saradomin were an excellent example, but devoting another order to Saradomin would be erring on the side of favouritism.

Instead, Lord Valzin, along with other men of wealth and power with whom he had secretly made deals, suggested to Raddallin that these warriors should pledge fealty to another god: Zamorak. It was on this day that the order of the Kinshra was founded.

Chapter 5

From the onset, the White Knights were mistrustful of the Kinshra, whether due to conflicting religious sensibilities, or a sense of entitlement over the Zamorakians, who traditionally came from working class backgrounds.

The reasons vary from account to account, but it was clear that, irrespective of the exact motivation, it fostered a great rivalry between the two orders, although neither disclosed this fact to King Raddallin.

Whatever the reason, both orders were distracted by their secret enmities, and failed to notice a greater threat that was brewing beyond their borders.

The human tribes had not been the only ones to unite under a common banner. Various non-human races joined forces to overcome Misthalin. They saw the orders of knights and considered their forming to be an act of aggression. They moved together in great force to eliminate mankind, to purge the humans from their lands, and hordes of creatures fell upon the human tribes.

The White Knights and the Kinshra (dubbed Black Knights by some; the Kinshra disliked the term as it implied a connection to the White Knights) immediately set aside their differences, and for the only known time in history, formed an alliance in defence of their land.

Many lives were lost in the bloody battles that ensued, but through an alliance of the knight orders, many tribal warbands and the aid of the dark wizards, man stood triumphant.

It was on this day, four years after the Kinshra's foundation, that Asgarnia was established as a nation, with Raddallin as its king. Its capital became Falador, one of the Donblas' humblest villages. Falador began to grow rapidly, as both knightly orders made their home there.

Chapter 6

True to their word, the Kinshra aided the expansion of the kingdom...and expand it did, even driving the mighty troll race into the mountains, and subduing the numerous goblin colonies.

While Asgarnia expanded, however, the relations between the White and Black Knights worsened. Only months later, the simmering tensions between the Kinshra and their Saradominist counterparts boiled over.

When matters could not have seemed worse, several Kinshra officers are said to have drunkenly torched a Saradominist chapel, after a late night at the tavern. Lord Valzin was quick to disavow his errant warriors, yet this did little to calm the White Knights. On the contrary, there were rumours that this act had been in retaliation for an earlier offence administered by the White Knights.

Only King Raddallin's interference averted outright civil war. It finally became clear to him that these two orders were vicious rivals. As both had done great things for the kingdom, however, Raddallin refused to disband neither White nor Black, and instead resigned himself to the difficult and constant task of keeping the peace between the two.

In the years that followed, the rivalry between the knights was the only threat the kingdom faced, apart from the barbarian invasions from the west. Therefore, Lord Valzin was free to pursue his ambitions.

As the years passed, the highest positions in the kingdom were one-by-one filled by men recommended by him...men who happened to serve Zamorak, albeit secretly. He worked carefully, ensuring that progress would continue to be made even when he had gone. Lord Valzin would see the rise of Zamorak's kingdom, which he had sought to forge since the dawn of the new age.

Chapter 7

In the seventieth year of the Fifth Age, disaster struck. The great tower of magic in the south of Misthalin was burnt to the ground. The incident was blamed on the dark wizards, who were said to have attacked the tower.

Zamorakians from both Asgarnia and Misthalin pre-emptively defended their brethren's actions, but this served only to seal their fate across the continent. It was no longer safe to outwardly support Zamorak.

While the order of the Dagon'hai was chased out of Varrock, Asgarnia once more found itself on the brink of civil war. This time, nothing the now elderly Lord Valzin could say or do would prove effective. Everything he had worked towards was now lost due to the alleged misdoings of another order that shared his faith.

Elderly King Raddallin, whom Valzin had helped achieve greatness, was pressured by his court. He could no longer keep the peace between the two orders. All of the Zamorakian officials within the king's court were ousted, and the Kinshra themselves were forced to leave the city.

Chapter 8

By this time, Asgarnia's borders had extended so far as to claim Ice Mountain and the surrounding lands. Lord Valzin led a perilous march to his private mansion on the lower slopes of the mountain.

Lord Valzin now commanded that his mansion be fortified, to double as private residence and new headquarters for the Kinshra. Through back channels, avoiding knowledge of his court, King Raddallin provided gold and resources for the construction process. Work progressed quickly.

Whereas the mansion gained strength each day, Lord Valzin's health declined, and he was already of a remarkably advanced age. Some rumoured that his longevity was a gift from Zamorak; others suspected dark rituals had been the cause.

Nonetheless, the fate that had befallen his order due to the destruction of the Wizards' Tower plunged the ancient lord into illness. Within his now fortified manor, Lord Valzin passed away. The founder of the Kinshra, a man who had dedicated his home, finances, and the very lives of his family to Zamorak, was dead.

In his last hours, however, the dying man seemed to experience a change of heart. He insisted the Kinshra be dissolved upon his death. His final words were instead interpreted, quite creatively, to be a declaration that no man - but himself - should ever lead the order.

Chapter 9

With the loss of Valzin's wealth and influence, the members of the Kinshra order, now leaderless and with bitterness in their hearts, declared that they would no longer recognise the legitimacy of King Raddallin's government or his claim to the throne.

It was their order who had truly built the nation, and they were its rightful rulers...and one day they would claim what was theirs by right.

King Raddallin looked darkly upon these words of treason, but left them unchallenged, out of respect for his late comrade.

05-Feb-2015 09:49:23

Kittyphantom

Kittyphantom

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Thanks, Stu. First order of business - The version of the text currently ingame fails to mention Shadwell, thus unintentionally eliminating the 'Dulcin is descended from the founder of the Kinshra' aspect of the story. We did discuss this on the original thread (though admittedly that was quite a few months ago, so memories may not be fresh in that regard).

As you yourself said then, Mod Stu,

Original message details are unavailable.
Kittyphantom's text above would be a great opening paragraph, and it's good to have that right at the top as a summary for the lore-curious who don't yet want to read too much into the details.


The text in question on the thread was this:

Original message details are unavailable.
'The Fortress was originally the mansion of Lord <name here>, who founded the order of the Black Knights. He dedicated his home, finances, and the lives of his family to Zamorak, and fortified the mansion as a base of operations. It is unclear whether these family ties later aided Lord Shadwell, the direct descendant of Lord <name here>, in his successful bid to become Lord of the Kinshra.'

(Don't take that example as a 'final version'. I may still be able to make it better.)


The version in document sMJMZgr1 was updated from this, being

Original message details are unavailable.
The fortress was originally the mansion of Lord Valzin, who founded the order of the Kinshra. He dedicated his home, finances, and the lives of his family to Zamorak, and fortified the mansion as a base of operations. These family ties later aided Shadwell, Lord Valzinĺs most direct male line heir, in his successful bid to become Lord of the Kinshra.


I think we can potentially make it sound even better, though. I'd like the first two sentences to be kept as they are in sMJMZgr1 (as they replace Owen's chat), but the final sentence, about Shadwell, has room for improvement - Though whatever the wording, the general idea should remain the same. The usage of the term 'family ties' also serves to remind a quester of Owen having mentioned Dulcin's
"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you[...]For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have?

05-Feb-2015 11:53:19 - Last edited on 05-Feb-2015 12:08:37 by Kittyphantom

Kittyphantom

Kittyphantom

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'family ties' to Shadwell - Thus bringing on the realisation that if Dulcin is descended from Shadwell, and Shadwell is descended from Valzin, then Dulcin *is descended from the founder of the Kinshra*.


Now, the other question about this snippet of text is how to word it in a way that it appears at the very beginning, thus fulfilling the aim of a reader not interested in the lore seeing it immediately.

My idea (see sMJMZgr1) had been to make the text read like an extract from a larger book, with that paragraph being the 'end' of an otherwise unseen section; If you guys at Jagex would rather not do that, though, we should figure out how else we can make this work.


So, that's the first order of business for now. I'll post with other points later. For now, I encourage Robo, Wahisietel and even other lore players to get in on the discussion with suggestions, ideas, etc. After all, this whole thing stemmed in the first place from a suggestion of Noctiseus's - He's really the unsung hero in this whole affair.
"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you[...]For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have?

05-Feb-2015 11:53:58 - Last edited on 05-Feb-2015 12:03:48 by Kittyphantom

Wahisietel
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2005

Wahisietel

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Yay, hi Kitty.

Now, on to business. It's probably worth nothing that Shadwell is still referred to as the "founding father of the Kinshra" and Dulcin's ancestor in Captain Dulcin's journal.

Original message details are unavailable.
Lord Shadwell would not have sullied his Kinshra forces with weak wizards and bearers of children!

The young Lord Daquarius may have little concern for the founding father of the Kinshra, but I shall not stray from the old ways of my ancestor.
You never were our brightest star, Khazard. 'Vermin slaughtered like lambs'? What does that even mean?

05-Feb-2015 13:10:09

LordáDrakan
Sep Member 2010

LordáDrakan

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Moving the ancestry thing sounds good to me. Personally, I'd leave Shadwell out of the picture completely (maybe even change the reference in Dulcin's journal to Valzin) snd make it so Dulcin is Valzin's descendant instead, after all the names were chosen with this in mind.

Also, we should get the final Kitty edits that were for some reason cut in. So change Scryant to Scrye and remove the sentence about the treacherous slopes of WWM and Port Lina. Instead, add a sentence that the choice whether to remain independent and join Misthalin was made more urgent by the destruction of Lina, a bit earlier. Since "treacherous slopes" is a nice phrase, we can use that in the preface to describe Ice Mountain. :P

Also, the Botolph thingy Mod Osborne added is a bit odd in that he's introduced simply as "Botol**" and his full name appears later. I'd suggest switching the two around, so it'd be "King Botolph Remanis of Varrock proudly declared..." and "...pledged allegiance to King Botolph."

That's about it from me. Kitty also had some problems with "Lord of Chaos and Death" I believe and insists I wrote it. I don't really recall doing that, but that doesn't matter. I'm fine with changing/removing it, but why exactly? Most people I asked liked it and apparently it has a pro-Zamorak association, which is nice.
Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. Minigames & ninja fixes & achievement ideas!

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
Ś Zanik

05-Feb-2015 13:29:38

Kittyphantom

Kittyphantom

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LordáDrakan said:
Kitty also had some problems with "Lord of Chaos and Death" I believe and insists I wrote it. I don't really recall doing that, but that doesn't matter. I'm fine with changing/removing it, but why exactly? Most people I asked liked it and apparently it has a pro-Zamorak association, which is nice.


Original message details are unavailable.
Anonymous User @Randomname1573 Jan 27
@Fswe1 @Wahisietel @JagexStu @Fannygirdle @JagexOsborne Stu gave me both links you sent.

Anonymous User @Randomname1573 Jan 27
@Fswe1 @Wahisietel @JagexStu @Fannygirdle @JagexOsborne Robo has now given me both he *thought* you sent.

Anonymous User @Randomname1573 Jan 27
@Fswe1 @Wahisietel @JagexStu @Fannygirdle @JagexOsborne Neither link matched. Nor did their contents.
"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you[...]For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have?

05-Feb-2015 13:49:58 - Last edited on 05-Feb-2015 13:51:20 by Kittyphantom

LordáDrakan
Sep Member 2010

LordáDrakan

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Kittyphantom said:
LordáDrakan said:
Kitty also had some problems with "Lord of Chaos and Death" I believe and insists I wrote it. I don't really recall doing that, but that doesn't matter. I'm fine with changing/removing it, but why exactly? Most people I asked liked it and apparently it has a pro-Zamorak association, which is nice.


Original message details are unavailable.
Anonymous User @Randomname1573 Jan 27
@Fswe1 @Wahisietel @JagexStu @Fannygirdle @JagexOsborne Stu gave me both links you sent.

Anonymous User @Randomname1573 Jan 27
@Fswe1 @Wahisietel @JagexStu @Fannygirdle @JagexOsborne Robo has now given me both he *thought* you sent.

Anonymous User @Randomname1573 Jan 27
@Fswe1 @Wahisietel @JagexStu @Fannygirdle @JagexOsborne Neither link matched. Nor did their contents.

That's not an answer...?

Either way we're here to suggest adjustments and improvements, not quarrel over who did what wrong.
Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. Minigames & ninja fixes & achievement ideas!

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
Ś Zanik

05-Feb-2015 14:18:41 - Last edited on 05-Feb-2015 14:26:10 by LordáDrakan

LordáBilrach

LordáBilrach

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Anyone else find it odd that the Kinshra are keeping a public book in their headquarters that tells of how their own founder wanted them to dissolve and they twisted his words?

I dunno, I feel like it should have been written in a way that actually DID twist his words, but leaves a hint that they are being biased. This book would likely bring the reader to three conclusions.

1) The White Knights are intolerant and possibly evil.

2) The Kinshra are victims.

3) The Kinshra are no longer an organization of any worth and should be disbanded.

One and two fit the Kinshra agenda just fine, but it just feels strange for the Kinshra to document this in a way that paints them as deteriorating. Maybe the book would twist Valzin's words, and there would be a private document in Dulcin's room detailing the last words of Valzin, where he gives his real opinion on the Kinshra but this would be keep secret from most Kinshra members?

05-Feb-2015 18:18:56 - Last edited on 05-Feb-2015 18:24:53 by LordáBilrach

LordáDrakan
Sep Member 2010

LordáDrakan

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LordáBilrach said:
Anyone else find it odd that the Kinshra are keeping a public book in their headquarters that tells of how their own founder wanted them to dissolve and they twisted his words?

I dunno, I feel like it should have been written in a way that actually DID twist his words, but leaves a hint that they are being biased. This book would likely bring the reader to three conclusions.

1) The White Knights are intolerant and possibly evil.

2) The Kinshra are victims.

3) The Kinshra are no longer an organization of any worth and should be disbanded.

One and two fit the Kinshra agenda just fine, but it just feels strange for the Kinshra to document this in a way that paints them as deteriorating. Maybe the book would twist Valzin's words, and there would be a private document in Dulcin's room detailing the last words of Valzin, where he gives his real opinion on the Kinshra but this would be keep secret from most Kinshra members?

That ending is actually very deliberate, so to speak. Can't say more though - ye'll have to figure it out yourselves eventually! ^_^
Bizarre Boron Fusswell, scryer extraordinaire. Minigames & ninja fixes & achievement ideas!

Perhaps you're half right; perhaps we can't win. But we can fight.
Ś Zanik

05-Feb-2015 18:33:58

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