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Xau-Tak: God of the Horrors

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Hguoh

Hguoh

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Um Wolfie, I just checked the transcript of WGS and Duradel says that he, 'took some shortcuts and trod on some very important toes.' Nowhere does he mention a leader of the slayer masters. Plus, Lapalock only mentions worshipping Amascut, not being appointed by her.

That being said, I think you have a pretty good chance of being right in this case. However, I fail to see how it substantially links her to Xau. All things considered, you don't need to know somebody personally in order to start playing with the toys they left behind. You just need to find where the toys were left.

17-Nov-2015 22:50:51 - Last edited on 17-Nov-2015 22:53:33 by Hguoh

Hguoh

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Jakir said:
The cave horrors are followers of Xau and happen to drop a mask which gives incredible powerups when fighting slayer tasks (missions from Amascut/those in her service (knowingly or not)) and can even be upgraded by slayer masters.

So either Xau is working with Amascut or is doing something so related to her the mechanics of one of his relics react with what she is doing. I feel this relation is worth noting because while it could just be a relationship formed by the similar mechanics they both use as Gods it could also hint at an interesting alliance between "evil" Gods, or even at certain goals of Amascut like potentially reviving Tumeken.

Either way I find it very interesting and thought it was worth sharing because it gives us a lot of awesome dark lore to ponder.


I'm not arguing the Amascut leads the slayer master point. I'm arguing the Xau and Amascut must be in cahoots point.

I mean, it's just not a sound conclusion. For example, a while back I got a Zamorak coif from a clue scroll. I started using the coif because I couldn't afford a royal coif (was prior to the FoG changes) and didn't have the stats for Armadyl gear. By your logic, because the coif offered very useful benefits to my ability to range, my character must worship or be in cahoots with Zamorak.

That's simply not the case, of course. I'm just making good use of one of Zamorak's old toys that he left behind and I found.

19-Nov-2015 11:01:59 - Last edited on 19-Nov-2015 11:02:44 by Hguoh

Hguoh

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Thanks for the clarification, Mod Wilson.

@ Wolfie

That still doesn't add up logically. If I find a black mask and use it on my slayer assignments, that doesn't mean I'm working with Xau or Amascut. All it means is that I found something that conveniently suits my needs and chose to use it.

I mean, as Wahi pointed out, the hex crest and focus sight both accomplish very similar things to the mask, but that doesn't mean Kerapac is in league with Amascut. And as Kastor pointed out, some of the rewards from FoG help with Slayer, but we know Guthix wouldn't work with any other god, let alone Amascut.

Plus, it really doesn't help your point that the Slayer helm's boosts function on Raptor tasks, and its rather unlikely that he serves anybody but him/herself.

20-Nov-2015 10:24:31

Hguoh

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Ren_Derek said:
Gotcha, still breaking into the lore business! I guess it's just coincidence where it's located then?


Keep in mind that it's also just north of the digsite, and thus right over the ruins of Senntisten. This relationship is further confirmed when we head down beneath the manor, and enter the ruins of an ancient Zarosian insane asylum (from which it is implied the Chtonian Demon escaped).

So the location is very deliberate, but not because of the Skeletal Horror.

20-Nov-2015 12:57:35 - Last edited on 20-Nov-2015 12:58:13 by Hguoh

Hguoh

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Given the implication of the Crassians being a result of the dark hydromancer's curse (the tutor's cursed forms strikingly resembling Crassians, his comment that he'd gone on to perfect his curse elsewhere, and his ability to summon and control them), I highly doubt that they were around during the last God Wars for Bandos to have bred the Mogres to fight.

28-Jan-2016 21:19:28 - Last edited on 28-Jan-2016 21:20:06 by Hguoh

Hguoh

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Wahisietel said:
Yeah, an underwater city is referenced, but it being "raised back up to land" doesn't really go with the lore about it we've got from elsewhere, which implies it's always been underwater.


Didn't Guthix's God letter only say that the underwater city had been submerged for many centuries? I'd say that leaves enough wiggle room to claim that it had been above water prior to being submerged.

08-May-2016 03:12:52

Hguoh

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CakeRider said:
Happily reading diaries during Kindred Spirits, while feeling like a failure in the previous two puzzles.

"Do you really think you can save them, CakeRider? You can't. The spiral of time leads only to the gaping maw of eternity. And this is Xau-Tak."


My face when.


The best part of that line? Xau is seemingly talking to us via the words of a sailor that were recorded in the 2nd age about the events that were happening during the quest. Dude's got some seriously good premonitions.

23-May-2016 18:16:35

Hguoh

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Wahisietel said:
Anyway. Olaf's quest. Olaf says that he thinks his grandfather's treasure is cursed, since his ship was wrecked while he was looking for it. Ulfric's parchment also says that the treasure is cursed, and that the ships carrying it were either sunken or crashed. As we see in the quest, he and his crew were turned into undead to protect it.

So a mysterious cursed treasure connected to the ocean and the undead. I think we can safely say it's related to Xau-Tak at this point?


I really don't think the treasure's curse has anything to do with Olaf's own ship wreck:

Player: I am a friend of your husband. He sent me here with a gift for you. An expensive, exotic gift from the far-flung and tropical shores of the Island of Obscurity.

Ingrid Hradson: How wonderful! I assumed from the way the big oaf always referred to the rigging as 'big strings' that he couldn't navigate his way out of a soggy paper bag. So, can I see the gift he sent?

Player: Certainly! Here it is. He sends his best wishes along with it.

Ingrid Hradson: I see. It looks like a log with 'Olaf was here' carved in it.

For all appearances, Olaf is utterly incompetent, so, while the treasure is certainly cursed, it likely had no part in this particular incident.

As for potential Xau-tak involvement, maybe. The Fremennik area is pretty far from Xau's other known prowling ground (the Pirate quest areas) with an entire continent (Forinthry) in the between, but it could be related.

08-Jun-2016 22:05:37

Hguoh

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Raleirosen said:
wait a sec

Has anyone actually looked at the Fremmy prophecy in the context of Xau-Tak?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"All-consuming darkness will rise from the sea, unleashed by Good Intent.
The lost Mother is dead, her Daughter risen in her place.
Wits and Skills will bring the Light; fate does not dictate.
When the tide is strongest, Good Intent will be needed once more.
And his/her name will be [Fremennik name]."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

All-consuming darkness, from the sea? That's gotta be Xau-Tak.

And it's going to be unleashed by Good Intent, capitalized? Could be the player, as per the last passage. Makes me think of Saradomin too, though.

Lost Mother? Mah. Daughter? Seren.

Fate does not dictate? Zaros' plan is gonna ***** up somehow.

And the last lines imply we're going to be instrumental in stopping Xau-Tak.


It's the Dagganoth. The Dagganoth Mother was killed by the player in an attempt to do good, and another rose to take her place and led an assault on the Fremmenik.

That's your darkness from the sea (Dagganoth), unleashed by good intent (the player in Horror from the Deep), the dead mother (the original Mother), and the risen daughter (the second Mother).

Wits and Skills will bring the light? Rescuing King Vargas (the light) and escaping through Waterbirth Island (Wits and Skills).

Fate will not dictate? Our death and actually having passed to the afterlife (fate), but subsequent return to life (not dictate).

When the tide is strongest? The Dagganoth's assault.

Good intent will be needed once more? The player dealing with the Dagganoth Mother properly this time.

And I think you can figure out the last bit. They kinda explain some of the prophecy during Blood Runs Deep, and how it refers to the Dagganoth.

14-Jul-2016 05:15:40 - Last edited on 14-Jul-2016 05:15:54 by Hguoh

Hguoh

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Raleirosen said:
Hguoh said:
It's the Dagganoth.

Yes yes, I know that's what it was originally referring to. But come on; would you really describe the dagannoth as "all-consuming darkness"?


When their modus operandi is to either eat or destroy everything? Yes, yes I would.

14-Jul-2016 22:38:44

Hguoh

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Fates†Pyro said:
I don't think it can live up to the hype... Like you said they seem to be making it to be more threatening than the Elder gods... Which it simply can't be.


Not necessarily. Magic the Gathering has (or had) a group of monsters called the eldrazi. Long story short, they are basically 3 eldritch abominations that devour entire planes of existence. The parts of them that actually interact with planes are godlike in power and yet are such minor parts of them that actually killing the whole thing is practically an impossibility (as you can probably guess, they did kill off 2 of the 3 and trapped the last in a moon). They are basically our elder gods.

On the other hand, Magic also has a race known as the Phrexians. They are a hellish mix of machine and flesh that seek to remake all of reality in their image. They utilize a substance called Phrexian Oil that is incredibly difficult to completely destroy that converts and corrupts other life into Phrexian form. They infiltrate other worlds, spy on them for weaknesses, and then invade.

By all accounts, the Phyrexians have less raw power than the Eldrazi and are less physically destructive than them. However, they are considered by many players to be a greater threat and have generally required more firepower to deal with than the Eldrazi. I personally think this is because the Phrexians are just so tenacious, sneaky, and clever whereas the Eldrazi are very direct.

In conclusion, it's not easy, but it is entirely possible to make a less powerful and destructive force the greater threat.

06-Sep-2016 16:06:13 - Last edited on 06-Sep-2016 16:07:40 by Hguoh

Hguoh

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Maiden†China said:
Hguoh said:
nerd stuff... [
like I mean, I'm a nerd, but this guy's a super-nerd :P]
(just joking)


I can go a bit nerdier. How so? By referencing Doctor Who!

A common enemy of the titular Doctor are the Daleks (a race of genocidal brain squids piloting killer trashcan robot suits). Canonically, they are one of the Doctor's greatest and most dangerous enemies. However, there's a fairly common issue with their appearances: the fewer Daleks, the greater threat they present.

This is largely due to the knowledge that the Doctor will always win in the end. This effectively limits any enemy or group of enemies the Doctor faces to the same standing as the Doctor and his allies. As the Doctor's resources remain largely constant, this makes large groups of enemies relatively powerless against him and his compatriots (the Daleks are the most guilty of this as they brought an entire empire up against him multiple times).

On the other hand, a single Dalek will pose a much more significant threat as, in order to make the episode entertaining, it is brought up to the same standing as the Doctor and those with him.

Again, a less powerful force presents a greater threat.

12-Sep-2016 13:55:54 - Last edited on 12-Sep-2016 13:58:04 by Hguoh

Hguoh

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Couldn't it simply be the case that Xau was hiding from Guthix so as to not be removed from Gielinor when the Edicts were set up?

As far as we are aware, Guthix didn't know about Xau, so it could very well be the case that Xau destroyed most evidence of its existence and then slept within the underwater city in order to hide it's presence from the nasty god who was going around and banning people from the plane.

I mean, we seem to be viewing the underwater city as Xau's prison, but perhaps it was meant to keep others out rather than keep him in.

16-Sep-2016 20:42:20

Hguoh

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Wahisietel said:
One of the Ambassador's concepts actually shows it in an area that matches up with the description of the Underwater City we got in The Light Within. It's set underwater and is full of black obsidian structures.



Black obsidian structures that just so happen to look like hands reaching up from the depths. Like one of the dreams you could have if you fell asleep while listening to Coeden in TLW.

17-Sep-2016 22:24:18

Hguoh

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Sepulchre said:
N7spongy said:
Wahisietel said:
The Ambassador was concepted as a potential boss alongside an eastern Island guardian and another sea monster, so that gives us an idea as to where it will be found.

Also, its name is eerily similar to the Harbinger... is the Harbinger a harbinger for the arrival of the Ambassador?
Where did you get that info from?

Anyways my theory is that the Harbinger is one of the ships belonging to Rabid Jack, and he uses this ship to trade slaves to turn into zombie minions. If this is true I find it unlikely we would get to meet
STOP SAYING HIS NAME, YOU FOOLS!
(because the requirements would be WAYYYY too high for a pirate continuation) but we are likely to get more lore on the Pirate series as a whole and Xau-Tak himself.
I think the Wushanko Isles and the Pirate series will definitely be intertwined somehow, I just don't know how. Perhaps the Pirate finale could take place IN the Arc?


In the Arc? But then Xau-tak can't personally show up (Kami Shima Edicts Barrier). And if further serialization is an issue, just play the 5th age clause, or approach Xau from one of the other ways he's flexing his influence on Gielinor.

22-Sep-2016 13:22:36 - Last edited on 22-Sep-2016 13:28:43 by Hguoh

Hguoh

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Wahisietel said:
Mod Raven has said that they are very reluctant to do any more time travel plots (with us doing the time travel, at least) as recently as The Light Within, since it cheapens storylines if we're just able to go back and change things.

So that being said, I think we can rule out us time travelling again in connection to Xau-Tak. Considering how many other unremarkable characters are capable of it to some degree, it's pretty likely that Xau-Tak was simply able to see the future, or it just took note of us when we were messing around in the First Age.


I don't think they'll pull a time travel schtick with Xau-tak. That being said, I don't think we should discount the possibility so readily since (despite the reluctance Mod Raven reported) they just told us at Runefest that we'd be traveling back in time to Zamorak's coup/the Betrayal during CoM.

23-Sep-2016 15:28:24 - Last edited on 23-Sep-2016 16:04:56 by Hguoh

Hguoh

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AesirWarrior said:
I mean, there's a thousand ways to work around that. The easiest way would be to change the time travel rules so we literally cant change the past, because any time travel is already part of history. It'd all be stable time loops/bootstrap paradoxes. Think Harry Potter and The Prisoner of Azkaban, or Gargoyles if any of you have seen that.


I'm actually quite fond of the way time travel works in game right now.

In Meeting History, we are perfectly capable of changing certain small events (the trees, sarah, and assisting Laura), but the overarching timeline remains consistent. Herblore will still be called Herblore, the Wizard's Guild will still be established, the Amserdrwys will will itself into existence, and the Outpost's significance will be forgotten.

It's very Dr. Who-like: you can change certain events, you cannot drastically change the outcome of the more important (influential) events (in the Betrayl's case, Zaros would still 'die' and Zamorak would still become a god, but you might accidentally save a Chthonian Duke by unintentionally convincing the Zamorakians to banish them instead), and the majority of history remains unaffected.

24-Sep-2016 02:53:55 - Last edited on 24-Sep-2016 02:54:07 by Hguoh

Hguoh

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Maiden†China said:
th doctor says that certain points are in flux, that they can be changed... but some of those in flux moments would change the world so drastically that the 'fixed' moments would never be able to happen... an an example, the pompeii fire-giants and ww2


Except that both of those were fixed events (hence the Doctor's extreme reluctance to save anybody from it and him trying so hard to explain to Mels that her plan to shoot H***** wouldn't work). The most interesting bit about those events, however, is that they were fixed events already in danger of being changed (the fire giants in Pompeii and the Teselecta), and the Doctor was brought in against his will (he didn't mean to land in Pompeii and Mels forced him back to WW2). And, of course, the Doctor fixes things so that the fixed event goes as planned (because he had little choice to do otherwise in Pompeii and did so accidentally in WW2).

Of course, you could be talking about another WW2 episode (the one with the Daleks). But again, the Doctor is lured in by something out of his control (Winston Churchill calling for help) and fixes what would have derailed the fixed point (gets the Daleks off Earth and stops their bomb's explosion).

Then there's the water on Mars episode, where the Doctor deliberately attempts to drastically change a fixed point, but only succeeds in changing a minor detail about it.

Or there's the episode where the Doctor failed to die in his designated place and time. But even then, time broke until the event was back on track, the Doctor's actions beforehand ensured the event would get back on track, and the event did get back on track with the entire season up to then hinting that him avoiding his death through technicality was how the event was meant to go down in the first place (the looping time aspect of the events making it so that this was always how it did go down).

24-Sep-2016 10:54:28

Hguoh

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Yes, it's very contrived way to get around the cascading effects of time travel in an episodic TV series, but it works well in that respect. And considering the typically long interludes quest series experience and the limit on just how much they can change, it might be one of the better ways to handle time travel in Runescape.

Maiden†China said:
and... the way time travel in game works now (as far as I'm aware) is that all your time travel medling will already have happened always... you can't change anything, you have to change it because you already did change it. Say goodbye to the illusion of free will.


If that were the case, then we wouldn't have been able to change anything about Past B in Meeting History as our actions in Past A would already have happened even though we had yet to do them. If our actions had already and would always occur, then Past B as the future of Past A would have already been changed by our actions just as the future had. As we clearly observe changes to Past B caused by our actions in Past A, then our actions cannot have always been a part of the timeline.

This indicates that though we could change small things, the overall timeline remained constant (ex: even when we hadn't yet inspired young Jack to go off and establish the Wizard's Guild when he was older (a distinct and observable change between the two pasts that we cause), it was still established in the Future).

24-Sep-2016 10:59:14 - Last edited on 24-Sep-2016 11:12:48 by Hguoh

Hguoh

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Maiden†China said:
Hguoh said:
I can brain very well today
I mean that the fire giants in pompeii, if the doctor let them take over the world, would have so radically changed the world that ww2 ( a fixed point) could never have happened


Pompeii was also a fixed point though.

24-Sep-2016 18:32:49

Hguoh

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Sepulchre said:
AesirWarrior said:
Oh it pretty much has to happen with Robert eventually, so I don't think it's a pointless discussion (even then, we have tons of those). I mean, the main reason it popped up here was because of the possibility it could happen with Xau-Tak's story (though I seriously doubt it).
Actually they said on the Lore Corner they weren't planning to do any time-travel shenanigans with Robert's story, I do believe?


How would you even do that?

He literally leaves a note for us to give to himself when he's human that tells him how to even get to Kethsi in the first place (otherwise he'd already know about DIRAKS).

He even seems to tell himself to put DIRAKS on his collar in the first place (not to mention what appears to be instructions for his reincarnation).

I mean even if we somehow turn Bob back into a human, he still somehow knew a lot about future events that hints at some time-based shenanigans.

27-Sep-2016 15:43:11

Hguoh

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Sepulchre said:
Hguoh said:
Sepulchre said:
AesirWarrior said:
Oh it pretty much has to happen with Robert eventually, so I don't think it's a pointless discussion (even then, we have tons of those). I mean, the main reason it popped up here was because of the possibility it could happen with Xau-Tak's story (though I seriously doubt it).
Actually they said on the Lore Corner they weren't planning to do any time-travel shenanigans with Robert's story, I do believe?


How would you even do that?

He literally leaves a note for us to give to himself when he's human that tells him how to even get to Kethsi in the first place (otherwise he'd already know about DIRAKS).

He even seems to tell himself to put DIRAKS on his collar in the first place (not to mention what appears to be instructions for his reincarnation).

I mean even if we somehow turn Bob back into a human, he still somehow knew a lot about future events that hints at some time-based shenanigans.
Oh? So he leaves us a note, okay. Let's look at the start of that note.

Dear adventurer,
Welcome to Kethsi. I'm sorry that I have no means of knowing your name.

So we went back in time with him... but he has no means of knowing our name? Seems legit.


Not really all that much of a stretch if I am honest. 2 of 3 options during TLW have us not ever tell Guthix our name, and we are never even given a chance to tell Haluned our name. Heck even in Meeting History, our name only ever comes up in the post-quest dialogue about naming Herblore (and we never actually explained that it was out name).

28-Sep-2016 11:46:26

Hguoh

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Keep in mind, the Arc is rather isolated from godly influence due to an anti-god barrier over all of Wushanko originating from Kami-shima. Unless Xau has non-dead things working under him (think: cult) neither his influence nor anything sustained by his magic (anything Xau personally raised from the dead) should be able to even enter the Wushanko Isles.

That being said, I like Wahi's idea of Cora having gained her necromantic powers through something related to, but not dependant on the power of, Xau-tak. I mean, Higgs mentions still hearing moaning coming from near gate after the final quest, so I doubt the necromancy shenanigans are all over already.

11-Oct-2016 19:03:43 - Last edited on 11-Oct-2016 19:04:52 by Hguoh

Hguoh

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Wahisietel said:
Hguoh said:
Keep in mind, the Arc is rather isolated from godly influence due to an anti-god barrier over all of Wushanko originating from Kami-shima. Unless Xau has non-dead things working under him (think: cult) neither his influence nor anything sustained by his magic (anything Xau personally raised from the dead) should be able to even enter the Wushanko Isles.

The Memory is proof that low-tier divine beings are able to enter Wushanko with no issues, and we know from the Horn that godly artefacts are also allowed in.

Anyway, I was mainly thinking that Cora could have found an artefact or something at the nearby Cursed Archipelago to the north-west. From what we've seen, her necromantic skill seemingly rivals that of the Mahjarrat, which is pretty impressive, and probably not something a human would be capable of without divine assistance.

Higgs mentioning moaning after the miniquest is due to her dialogue being buggy - what should be her post-miniquest dialogue is currently displayed during it, and vice-versa.


Eh, the Memory is also identified as a Kami by sirens. This would indicate, based on our current understanding of the term, that the Memory is more a construct of anima, like Wushanko's monsters and the ba/orokami than she is anything divine. Granted, this opens up the possibility of things empowered or sustained by some small amount of Xau's power being active in the area, but it does kind of inhibit Xau's typical possess people to say creepy stuff schtick.

12-Oct-2016 03:40:23

Hguoh

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Wahisietel said:
Yeah, the fact that Cora is described as being a "young girl" when she was taken into slavery by The Skulls also makes things rather confusing, since she was also married to Gully at the time :|.


Eh, Middle Ages life expectancy wasn't all that good. Even accepting that Gielinor probably is better than that (depending on occupation), I wouldn't consider it all that odd if they happened to have been married when they were 14-17 years of age. That's still pretty young.

18-Oct-2016 04:44:33

Hguoh

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SixOfOne said:
I think it's pretty much confirmed that the Odd Old Man was being controlled by an artefact related to Xau-tak. He also wasn't really doing anything unethical. All he wanted while being controlled were bones and there is nothing inherently unethical with that..


Bones to build a fairly strong body for the skull that was in his backpack that has obvious mind controlling powers. Granted, we don't know exactly what the horror wanted to do, but I'm not exactly going to trust it or Xau's intentions considering the Odd Old Man set us up to be killed by it while he was under its influence.

24-Jan-2017 05:25:19 - Last edited on 24-Jan-2017 05:25:39 by Hguoh

Hguoh

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As an alternative to the 'unintended creation of an elder god' idea, perhaps Xau is a god that originates from across the Void and came through the tear in the fabric of reality that broke the elder blade.

Granted, I'll be the first to admit that the aesthetic of the Void Pests doesn't quite match up with what Xau appears to prefer. That being said, who is to say that, much like how our side of the Void has many biomes and planes that lead to a variety of species, the Void Pest's dimension is not inhabited by species other than the Pests (one of which Xau could have originated from).

As it is a different dimension to our own (as opposed to a different plane or a parallel universe), it is entirely possible for it to possess different physical laws to our own, enabling Xau to take our own dimension's laws as something more along the lines of a suggestion. Differing universal laws could also explain Xau having a godhood tier on a completely different scale to the ones used for the gods native to our dimension.

That, or Xau could just be imaginary. An idea that has become widespread and pervasive enough so as to make it seem as if Xau actually exists (like how Azzy convinced himself and the Zarosians under him that Zaros was talking to him when he first made the Communion Portal, just more successful and widespread).

13-Mar-2017 21:02:50

Hguoh

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Wahisietel said:
Worth pointing out that the Void pests do not originate from the void, they merely pass through it to get to our world. The Void is just... nothingness. Grayzag's interference permanently weakened the connection to the void on the Pest Islands, so the pests are still able to tear their way through to some extent.


While I would like to say that I did propose Xau coming from the other side of the Void, as opposed to from the void itself, the timing is notably off if if Xau indeed was the corruption within the planet.

That being said, I wouldn't say that the Void is only nothingness. Most notably, the Spirit Beast was said to leave Void in its wake when it tried to force its way into our world. The Spirits in the Quest as well as ourselves were also able to exist within the void for a time. So while the Void is mostly nothingness, it is entirely possible for things to exist within the Void (and I personally think that the Spirit Beast was originally a creature of the Void given its ability to spread Void).

15-Mar-2017 19:40:11

Hguoh

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P†Caesar said:
If Xau-Tak is responsible for the ravaged planes Guthix described, and if Xau-Tak had drained worlds of their anima (life) in the cycle before this one, such an anima deficiency could have caused Mah to be stillborn. (Otherwise, I have wondered, what caused the elder gods' process to fail? How long has it been failing?)


Well, the corruption on Mah's core (as seen in Children of Mah) is described as an icy blue crystal. This would indicate Wen as the perpetrator when it comes to Mah's corruption, which presumably led to her 'stillbirth,' rather than Xau.

Of course, it could be that Xau is a direct or indirect creation of Wen. She is described as 'the corpse' and apparently from her comes 'the ending of things.' However, Xau lacks Wen's signature association with ice and cold.

I'd say that Xau could be Wen's other half (assuming the split Wen theory is true), but V's memories seem to indicate that Xau's been active in the universe while Ice and White Wolf Mountains have remained rather clearly stationary.

16-Mar-2017 00:08:05 - Last edited on 16-Mar-2017 03:25:30 by Hguoh

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Steve†XVIII said:
A general question regarding Xau-Taks signature phrase:

"Do you really think you can save them,Player? You can't. There is something scary which does something scary. And this is Xau-Tak."

Who exactly are we meant to be saving? Is it a specific group, or just everything in general.


Assuming Xau-Tak is the corruption in the Guthixian Engram or the new host for the corruption, it is described as entwining itself with mortality. Acknowledging that, the 'we' Xau-Tak speaks of could literally be as broad as every single mortal in existence or as narrow as Xau-Tak itself/it's hosts.

21-Mar-2017 00:41:22

Hguoh

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Devil†Vein said:
Hguoh said:
Steve†XVIII said:
A general question regarding Xau-Taks signature phrase:

"Do you really think you can save them,Player? You can't. There is something scary which does something scary. And this is Xau-Tak."

Who exactly are we meant to be saving? Is it a specific group, or just everything in general.


Assuming Xau-Tak is the corruption in the Guthixian Engram or the new host for the corruption, it is described as entwining itself with mortality. Acknowledging that, the 'we' Xau-Tak speaks of could literally be as broad as every single mortal in existence or as narrow as Xau-Tak itself/it's hosts.


How awesome would it be if it is the Elder Gods that need saving? If Xau is draining the Anima Mundi from worlds, that means he is indirectly responsible for all of their deaths. But really, do we want to save them at this point? They're kinda indifferent about whether we live or die. Shouldn't we be the same towards them? It would be interesting if another elder or two died in the Elder god pillar and a way to prove ourselves to Jas would be to stop Xau.


As of right now, Wen is most likely responsible for the deaths of the other elder gods given her strongly implied involvement in Mah's corruption (the icy blue crystals on Mah's core). And other than an association with corpses (for different reasons) there is nothing linking the two or suggesting a link.

03-Apr-2017 18:25:39

Hguoh

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*Sigh* Alright then, let's begin the dissection:

1. It is not a fact that Wen is in two pieces. That is a theory. There is the alternative theories that Wen is simply so massive that she stretches between the two mountain ranges or that Wen is active below Gielinor's surface.

2. It was never established that parasites can control gods, only that Guthix allowed them to connect to his nervous system in order to communicate with them.

3. We know that Mah is supposed to play an active role in the creation of a revision (she inhibited sentient life), so it would make no sense for them to return and find Mah still born. Rather, Zaros's interpretation, that they left Mah for stillborn from the beginning.

Beyond that, the fact that the Dragonkin came from the previous revision strongly suggests that Mah's corruption originates at some point near the end of the previous cycle. And because the corruption would have had to occur while the others were creating the universe, this would mean that, despite not playing an active role in creation, Wen travels with the others while the universe is being created.

4. There is nothing in the surrounding geography that suggests that White Wolf and Ice Mountains were created by a large object crashing into the surface (no impact crater). For example, the Wilderness has a crater that is very clearly meant to have been caused by the explosion that woke Guthix at the end of the 3rd age, Tuska's crash landing left bits of her strewn about the surrounding area, Tumeken's explosion left the Kharidian a desert, the Poison Wastes exist because of the processes the gnomes of Arposandra utilize, etc...

03-Apr-2017 19:23:44

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AesirWarrior said:
I checked out some of the Myths' Guild books from OSRS and this http://oldschoolrunescape.wikia.com/wiki/Imcandoria%27s_fall in particular has a similar Lovecraftian vibe as Xau-Tak. The reference to black rocks in particular caught my attention. I don't know if there's already some OSRS lore for this thing, but we know a lot of the lorebooks were written by RS3 devs.

I don't think it's Xau-Tak itself mind, as the people observing it should go insane if that were the case, but perhaps it's some kind of avatar?


Based on a read through, I'm thinking that this is OSRS explaining what civilization fell and became the Cave Horrors of Mos Le'Harmless. If that is true (since that is part of the earlier pieces for the Xau-tak puzzle), it would indeed be a reference to Xau-Tak or some servant of it.

10-Feb-2018 10:27:18

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If Imcandoria was near Auspah tribes, that would place it near the Fremennik in Rellekka. Given the surrounding areas, this would place Imcandoria right around where the entrance to Keldagrim is today (makes sense, some dwarves fled far and wide, while others fled downward and established Keldagrim). Knowing what we do, it's likely that the blanketing of snow in the area around Imcandoria was a result of the Frostenhorn magnifying the cold environment around Ghorrock after Zarosians fleeing the God Wars brought the item to the fortress.

11-Feb-2018 22:23:32

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Wahisietel said:
Hguoh said:
If Imcandoria was near Auspah tribes, that would place it near the Fremennik in Rellekka. Given the surrounding areas, this would place Imcandoria right around where the entrance to Keldagrim is today (makes sense, some dwarves fled far and wide, while others fled downward and established Keldagrim). Knowing what we do, it's likely that the blanketing of snow in the area around Imcandoria was a result of the Frostenhorn magnifying the cold environment around Ghorrock after Zarosians fleeing the God Wars brought the item to the fortress.


We know that Auspah were also in the desert, though. And the area around Keldagrim has always been blanketed by snow.


We know the climate there has always been cold, but that's not a reason to state that the area was always covered in snow or that the snow has always been as thick as it is now. We know, in fact, that this is not the case, as the Frostenhorn was noted to have amplified the cold climate.

And while there were also Auspah tribes in the desert, there happens to be no snow covered area nearby to have once been Imcandoria (and definitely not such an area that is close enough to the sea that storms localized to it would make travel by water dangerous).

Edit: As for the giants... Well, Hreidmar had to get the giants to turn into chaos giants from somewhere, so there could very well be giants in that area deep below where we frequent.

11-Feb-2018 23:47:23 - Last edited on 12-Feb-2018 00:03:00 by Hguoh

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Wahisietel said:
The problem is, Xau-Tak has no connection to the cold. There IS a deity with a connection to both the cold and the Imcando dwarves, but she was asleep at the time.


And I'm not saying that Xau caused the cold and storms, merely that it acted when the Frostenhorn first enhanced the region's cold climate. Given Xau's apparently prophetic abilities (stating our name during a 2nd age conversation that we would later come to read in the 6th age), I'd say it would be able to organize such a 'coincidence.'

12-Feb-2018 20:14:17

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Iceey said:
Also the lake they seem to talk about in one of the journals, seems to be another World Gate. And with how powerful it seems Xau-Tak is, I would say he is nearly as powerful as Guthix, Zaros and Seren.


Based on the Mwanu creation myth in the Decaying Journal, Xau-Tak came into being early in the existence of the current cycle (existing prior to the stars, and finding interest in Jermyn while the plane's jungles lacked any sapient life). This places Xau-Tak as having originally been a denizen of one of the lower planes of existence (possibly even one that existed in the previous cycle).

Granted, the myth itself could very well be exaggerated. And I do notice some parts I find suspect (the jungle lacking any animal life seems awfully unlikely since we've been told the elders made simple life in general and not just plants), but I'm somewhat fond of the idea that Xau-Tak survived the last revision or arose from it's remains and that it 'uplifted' one of the species of Jermyn to make the Mwanu (the horror race) much like Bandos 'created' his races from the denizens of Yu'biusk.

As for the lake, I think that might just be Jermyn's equivalent of the Schism/Daemonheim Rift. It lacks the characteristic red energy the other two examples have (though that may have been concealed well below it's surface), but it shares two major traits with the Schism/Rift.

First, it whispers to those that approach it, beckoning to them to enter.
Second, it appears to be a permanent (it explains how the horn got to Gielinor after Marimbo lost it (tossed into the portal)) interplanar portal that connects at least two planes, does not appear to have originated from the elder blade (the only god's the Mwanu knew were Xau-Tak and the god Marimbo drank to death, neither of which had the blade), and deposits those who enter in no apparent proximity to the portal itself.

13-Mar-2018 03:25:11

Hguoh

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So perhaps Xau-Tak has somehow managed to 'infect' the Schism/Rift/Lake. This would explain it's apparent omnipresence throughout the planes (seemingly every plane has one of these somewhere) as well as it's ability to know the future (the apparent time wonky-ness of Daemonheim indicates the phenomenon has an odd interaction with time (it also may be the case that Robert the Strong's journey through the Schism sent him back in time, explaining how we could meet him when he's not yet as a cat without needing to travel back in time)).

'Infecting' the Rift would enable Xau-Tak to wrap its tendrils around any denizen of any plane in this revision as well as exert some modicum of control over where the Rift/Schism/Lake deposits those who enter (getting every piece in it's game to the right places at the right time). This could also allow Xau-Tak to do everything it does without being a god (explaining why we were told it was tier -1 (i.e. not in the god tiers)).

It also opens up some potential conflict between Xau-Tak and the other being we know of that has an odd relationship with time itself: Aeternam.

13-Mar-2018 03:38:57 - Last edited on 13-Mar-2018 03:39:27 by Hguoh

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N7spongy said:
Perhaps when Xau-Tak showed up the Mwanu interpreted it to be Tezcasalasagna, but that was wrong, because Tezcasablanca isn't a real person or deity. O_o


Xau's influence is clear at the lake the Mwanu used to escape to Gielinor, and in the lore books referencing their life after leaving Jermyn (black stone hands, and the black stone in general). Meanwhile, there seems little to no influence of Xau on Jermyn prior to this point (at best, you have the Mwanu liking to make just about every animal other than them dead to satisfy Tezcasathla's hunger).

The Mwanu misinterpretting Xau-Tak as their own god, Tezcasathla, seems to be an easy enough mix-up (especially considering their desperation at the time).

13-Mar-2018 19:05:08

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RoninOctopus said:
Has anyone brought up how Tezcasathla name is rather similar to the Aztec deity Tezcatlipoca, more commonly known as "Smoking Mirror".

The rival of the Feathered Serpent, Quetzalcoatl, Tezcatlipoca is associated with obsidian, the night sky, and sorcery.... among other things.

Even if Xau-Tac and Texcasathla are not necessarily the same entity, I find it interesting that Jagex is incorporating Mesoamerican influences into this segment of lore, along with the Lovecraft elements.


The Aztecs were all about making blood sacrifices to keep the world going. It was central to their religion, culture, and warfare. This would explain the prominence of blood sacrifice in the pre-Gielinor Mwanu culture.

As for why they'd choose to give the Mwanu Aztec influences, look at your list of what Tezcatlipoca is associated with.

Black rocks, darkness, and magic.

What's Xau-Tak associated with?

Black rocks, deep dark waters, and necromancy.

It's a match made in Hades. Probably also helps that historically Horrors have been a highly aggressive race since their inception, lived in a fairly tropical climate, and previously had a civilization that collapsed (and now they've even made the association that this collapse was driven by a foreignor(s) whom was aided by the groups the Mwanu oppressed). That draws a number of parallels between the Aztec and the Mwanu.

To then have them turn to worshiping the Lovecraftian entity that is Xau-Tak, seems to take inspiration from how such entities garnered worship from ancient civilization in the works of Lovecraft and others like him (ex: the worship of Amon-Gorloth by a cult in Egypt in Les Yeux d'Amon or Nyarlathotep gathering a cult whilst in the guise of an Egyptian Pharoah).

13-Mar-2018 20:54:35

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AesirWarrior said:
Personally I assumed the creature described in "The Weeping" was the Chaos Elemental. It was found roughly around the same area the Elemental now roams, and the physical description matches quite well (perhaps the OSRS version more than the RS3 version though).


I don't think so. The area's right, but the description is off. OSRS chaos elemental is a cloud with some spiked tentacles. I can see how one could consider it to be hulking, but I can't see how one would associate talons, spindly arms, or vocalizations of sheer anguish with the chaos elemental. RS3 chaos elemental is closer with it's multiple spindly arms tapering to sharp points, but I'm again at a loss when it comes to the sorrowful vocalizations.

Wahisietel said:
The creature is described as being hulking, with spindly arms and a flash of razor sharp talons, and sounding like a weeping woman. To me, it sounds like some kind of ripper demon that has not fully taken control of its host, but we cannot rule out that is related to Xau.


The idea of it being a Ripper Demon fits pretty darn well (hulking, spindly arms, razor sharp talons). The problem with this idea is what the creature was vocalizing: cries of anguish and grief. The only time we've known Ripper Demons to make such a sound was when Elspeth's sang the song from before the war in its presence, hurting it.

We know from the Miner's Journals that the Ripper Demon transformation drives it's host insane, driving them to feel nothing but hate, anger, and bloodlust. The sounds they make once fully converted are feral: hisses and howls. During transformation, hosts may attempt to make cries of anguish or fear, but, given the events in the Miner's Journals it seems to be the case that the Demon silences or limits the volume of such vocalizations.

14-Mar-2018 01:37:48

Hguoh

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It's also worth noting that the Ripper Demon transformation occurs over the course of days, while the being behind the door in The Weeping would have been within that room for much much longer (being in an abandoned Zarosian structure in a room that must have been sealed for a very long time given the description of the air within).

All indications point to the being having been deliberately locked away before or during the empire's fall. It almost sounds like a banshee, though I wouldn't really describe them as hulking. Maybe a cave horror, though I wouldn't call their arms spindly and their cries are said to be a mixture of anguish and bloodthirsty roars. Edimmu almost fits, but there's again the issue of the importance placed on the vocalizations.

Not sure what it was, but I'm doubting a Xau-Tak connection. Seems more likely it was a Zarosian experiment (one of Zaros's attempts at making life or one of the bioweapons the empire developed) that twas deemed a failure and locked away.

Really though, The Weeping and Pestilent Journal serve to identify Herbert Dunwich as an outcast of the 3rd age who got around a lot, poked his nose into dangerous situations along the way, and lived to write about them.

14-Mar-2018 01:59:14 - Last edited on 14-Mar-2018 02:03:40 by Hguoh

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Goldmage162 said:
The creature described in the Weeping Journal seems to me like iut could possibly be referring to a Dragonkin- the way they are depicted in OS at least. Large (about twice as tall as humans) but with spindly arms topped with claws. Also intelligent enough and with reason enough to be crying in anguish and grief, especially if trapped with no way to relieve the pain from the stone use during the 3rd age, and likely to lash out at the first available thing.


Dragonkin have wings to fly with and a breath weapon they can use to attack at range. Dunwich escaped the creature that pursued him out of the room by climbing a rope. Probably not a Dragonkin.

Renzler said:
This may be off the wall and unrelated but the journals released detailed 3 entities of form correct?

Could this at all somehow be the Obsidian Tribunal that had Saradomin's daughter on a "tomb world'?


I mean... maybe? Problem is we know even less about the obsidian tribunal than we do about Xau-Tak (they have a single line of dialogue in comparison to all that alludes to Xau-Tak), so it's hard to make any call on that. The best connection we have is that their name includes a black stone and that they are a group of three like these new idols.

Problem is, I'm not even convinced that the beings these idols represent are capable of interplanar travel (as Nyarlahydra seems to be the Skeletal Horror, and it doesn't demonstrate such power) to establish control of worlds (Zaros claims to have found Saradomin's daughter on a world the tribunal controls, which implies that they own more) or that they are even unique entities (given the priestesses in the Blasphemous Journal, the three idols might simply represent three ways Xau-Tak twists the Horrors or it's three 'favorite' types of creations.

15-Mar-2018 00:23:15 - Last edited on 15-Mar-2018 00:24:49 by Hguoh

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Devil†Vein said:
Goldmage162 said:
Also, just for fun, can we get some theorizing on what it means to have a Godhood Teir level of i, assuming of course that it wasn't just a way of saying "NaNa I'm not telling."


Sure. The impossible teir.

Theory 1: Jmods are trolling you.
Theory 2: Xau is based on lovecraftian gods which are described as being impossible for mortals to comprehend. Therefore Xau is impossible to comprehend
Theory 3: It is impossible for a being like Xau to fall into any of the known god teirs.

Or D. All of the Above.

Finally if you must power scale, in an answer to a lore corner question of wouldnt zaros and seren just destroy Xau Tak, Mod Jack responded that they wouldnt be powerful enough to. So power wise hes probably at t2 or above or better yet, ti.


Theory 4: The idea of Xau-Tak being a god is imaginary (hence the use of an imaginary number to describe it).

And power needed to destroy something does not necessarily correspond to said thing's own power. None of the gods could touch Tuska because of her anima barrier, yet she was only t4. Hostilius the Autocrat was stated to be about as powerful as a t5 god, yet he was not a god.

All Mod Jack's statement necessitates is that Xau-Tak is really really hard to kill. Assuming Xau-Tak was the corruption in Renmark, we already knew as much since the elder blade couldn't even kill it.

19-Mar-2018 12:27:54

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Goldmage162 said:
Or perhaps it could have had Guthix been better at wielding it...who knows?


He hit it hard enough to shatter Renmark. He broke a plane and the corruption just went on its merry way across the universe. Even if we consider that the blade wasn't being wielded at its full power, surviving a blow strong enough to break a plane indicates some amazing survivability.

19-Mar-2018 22:21:52

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Handkerchief said:
I missed talking to space kitty on the ship before we fight the kraken dude - what did it say at that point?

That door we can't open in the temple is driving me nuts. You know they just did that to fuck with us. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.


I can't remember what exactly it said, but it foreshadowed the impending Kraken attack.

19-Mar-2018 22:46:32

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Gaga†Lady said:
Perhaps I'm lore-failing here, but was it ever explained how the Dragonkin have been able to travel from planet to planet? Perhaps this portal to the abyss was created so they could travel to different worlds, rather than to contact a god?


It's never been explained how the Dragonkin do it, but we have been told about how the white dragons do it. Seeing as they only have that power because of Kerapac infusing his blood into their eggs, it stands to reason that the white dragon ability to do so would be similar or identical to that of the Draonkin. Here's the relevant quote from One of a Kind detailing their ability to travel between wordls:

Hannibus: I see a brilliant white dragon disappearing through holes in the sky. I have memories, fragmented though they are, of pain... destruction. She has hidden and escaped under his protection... my... my old mount. Player we must go visit my old friend, I believe you know him as the King Black Dragon. He has the answers we seek.

And here's the quote from the same quest that says they were infused with Kerapac's blood:

Therragorn: I remember a being, pale of scale like ourselves, but different in shape. We were born from its blood and the eggs of the queen herself. But we were not the children they wanted, and the Creator cast us aside. It is not wise to meet your Gods. They will always disappoint you.

21-Mar-2018 12:26:54

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Half†Centaur said:
him to be on a similar or greater level than the elder gods.


I donít think thatís necessary at all.

I think Xau-Tak functions reasonably as a memetic agent. A sort of virus of the mind. Worming its way into your head with but the barest hint of its nature. It drives you to seek it out further, and wraps and weaves itself tighter into your being the closer and closer you get. It tempts you with promises of answers or power, and gives them freely. Yet each answer brings up 2 more questions, each sample of its power a line to draw you further into its sprawling web.

It wants you to theorize about it, as that gives it more of a hold over you. It wants you to spread word of it so it can dig into the minds of others as well. And with each mind it infects it grows more and more able to use them to affect the physical world so that all of creation may eventually be its domain.

Of course, thatís only one option, and probably isnít right. My point though is that something doesnít have to be all that powerful to be absolutely terrifying. The scary thing about the elder gods is their power and utter disregard for our existence. They are like an apex predator and we are their prey.

On the other side of the power spectrum, you can have tiny viruses. You canít see them. You only detect them after theyíve already been inside you for days, weeks, or even years. They can destroy you from the inside out while you are helpless to stop them. And even if you do manage to fend them off once, they can remain dormant inside you for years, only teaching out to attack again when you are weak and vulnerable. They will use you to spread them to other people before you even know you have one, and will continue to use you for that purpose even once you are aware whether you like it or not.

Itís entirely insidious, and doesnít require them to be very powerful at all.

22-Mar-2018 21:27:34

Hguoh

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Handkerchief said:
Hguoh said:
Itís entirely insidious, and doesnít require them to be very powerful at all.

I dunno, that arm hurt pretty bad :P


But was it even real? The ones in the fight disappear mid-strike if you recover your sanity enough (at least they did for me). Rabid Jack himself says that the glimpse of the arm was meant to drive us utterly gibbering mad, and hallucinations popped up everywhere in the fight.

23-Mar-2018 12:02:10

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Handkerchief said:
How insane did you let yourself get? I let it get to 5 stacks where the camera totally flips - does it go beyond that?


I let myself only ever get to 3. At that point, the arm appears and tries to attack and Rabid Jack starts to get clones, but if you drop to 2 or 1 the arm and clones disappear. No idea how far insanity goes

23-Mar-2018 12:40:48 - Last edited on 23-Mar-2018 15:17:08 by Hguoh

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Devil†Vein said:
Let's pause for a second and look at the source material. Xau is based on Lovecrafts Cthulhu mythology. This mythology contains elder gods which are those opposed to Cthulhu and his kin. There are generally 4 accepted elders in this mythology (more in the expanded post lovecraftian universe). There was a fifth, wife of Cthulhu that he killed. Hmm...someone similar in the RS universe recently died and Seren said "someone close to her did this." So this could be a hint of Xau-taks relation to the elders and his own power. But you can also view it as irrelevant, though it is generally accepted by fans as part of the mythos the Elders never came into the universe until after HP's passing. So they are not inventions of the original author of the mythos. Just some knowledge to pass along.


The icy blue crystals on Mahís core very strongly suggests that the elder god Wen corrupted Mah (ice is Wenís domain, and pure elder god magic is crystal).

If it were Xau, Iíd expect black stone, tentacles, hands, or something undead or rotting to have been corrupting Mahís core.

23-Mar-2018 19:35:40

Hguoh

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Half†Centaur said:
Or you've got it backwards, and Mah should've had more color, but was corrupted from the outside in, causing her body to decay into a black color.


In that case, Seren would have needed to entirely misunderstand the nature of her mother so as to misinterpret what actually was Mah as corruption and what was corruption as being Mah:

Seren: Mah, I see it now; that icy corruption torn into your core. You are like this because someone close to you willed it... There is only one way I can help you, I am just so sorry it has taken me this long to realize.

It also would go against JMod statements about the elder gods and their overall aesthetic as each elder is supposed to represent a stage of life that is associated with their elemental domain:

Mah is the child; full of wonder, imagination, and innocence. Her elements are light and dark.
Bik is the youth; associated with malleability, building, and destroying. Her elements are earth and water.
Ful is the maiden; passionate, lifegiving, and focused on the present. She is the end of malleability. Her elements are fire and lava/magma.
Jas is the mother; wise and nurturing. She guides the others with her foresight, preparation, and planning. Her elements are sand and time.
Wen is the corpse; fearful, bringing death, and reflection on what was. She destroys the creation, harvesting the sown crop. Her elements are ice and death.

It would make little sense for Mah's appearance to have shared in Wen's domain, given the opposing positions the two hold in their roles as elder gods. This becomes even more evident when comparing their elements.

Given what we know, it seems very unlikely that any other being than Wen corrupted Mah. Xau-Tak is a particularly unlikely candidate given the apparent nature of the corruption in question.

27-Mar-2018 15:23:41

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Gamez†X said:
The bts vid of july came out and confirmed that the 2nd elite dungeon is in the wildy, which is odd cus they said "the 2nd is related to an elder god but not one of the ones on gilenor". The only other elder was mah but if this isnt on freneskae and its not one of the 4 on gilenor then it seems to hint xau tak might be the 6th afterall?


I disagree. Forinthry used to be the Zarosian empire. Considering the significant role many of Mah's children played in the empire while it existed, I'd be surprised if the dungeon was related to any elder god other than Mah (plus I'm still not sold on the hypothesis that Xau is an elder).

30-Jun-2018 02:31:57 - Last edited on 30-Jun-2018 02:32:45 by Hguoh

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