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My Ramblings on Nature Spirits

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AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

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Sodden Hound said:
Spirits of the spirit plane which are (mostly/probably) not-deceased spirits and are formed by belief and desire,


I'm gonna ramble for a bit here, but the short version is I (kinda) think they are.

You see, according to Lord Amlodd there are two main theories concerning the Spirit Plane. It's either some dream-realm formed by belief, so a Spirit Wolf would be a manifestation of the idea of wolfiness. This is what the Amlodd themselves believe. The other theory is that it's an afterlife for animals/beings of limited intellect.

Now the Ugthanatos book dropped by the Camel Warriors implies that the former theory is true, and that might have been the end of the debate. However, we've since learned that the afterlife is formed by the belief of deceased souls. After that revelation it seems more likely to me that both theories are correct. The Spirit Plane isn't unique in the sense that it can manifest ideas, because that's a trait shared by all afterlives. That being said, not every spirit being is necessarily a deceased animals. A spirit wolf may well be just the idea of wolfiness, but the point is that those ideas are shaped by the dead animals that pass on to the realm. Maybe they're even changed by it.

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Anyway over to what the thread's actually about

Nature Spirits (Human) - Does Filiman really disappear after Fairy Tale Part 1? I seem to remember he's just inside the Cave, but I don't have membership atm to check. Either way he's clearly the soul of an actual person. Judging by the quest, and Ashuelot Reis' dialogue, it's most likely a ritual Guthix passed down by Guthix after he gained insight into the anima mundi. They seem to fuse with their local nature, which might be why Reis looks different from Filiman.

Nymphs - I think Stu's toyed with the idea of Nymphs being native to Renmark, but that's not currently in-game canon.

Continued in next post.
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I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

12-Nov-2017 23:47:48 - Last edited on 12-Nov-2017 23:48:30 by AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

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I imagine the Renmark connection primarily comes from the fact that Dryads, traditionally a variant of nymphs, are in the Enchanted Valley. They could be ghosts as well like you suggest, though I don't think the Liquid Gold Nymph looks a lot like a dwarf.


Walkers

Solak, Vorago and Telos are currently (and hopefully) the only known Walkers . Considering Vorago seemed to have memories of a past life when drained in Sliske's Maze, it's possible that they're not all that different from Guthixian Nature Spirits. If they are anima-infused humans I imagine the main difference is that they are directly created by the anima mundi, without the need of a ritual to "establish a connection". Their greater strength is simply because the Anima Mundi needs them to be strong.

Spirits in General

So we know there are humans/ghosts that can become spirits, which may even include the Walkers, but that does not leave out the possibility that there are other "pure" spirits created directly from the Anima Mundi. The sea monsters seem to be an example of this. Nymphs would certainly fit if they're not tied to Renmark.


Fremennik

I had a theory, somewhat similar to yours, that before the Fremennik adopted Guthixianism they worshipped various nature spirits. The wolves Fenrir, Hati and Sköll (btw Garm should totally be added for the next one), as well as the Kendal and Fossegrimen would be examples of this. Draugen I see as more of a ghost, but it could fit in there somewhere.
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I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

13-Nov-2017 00:33:59 - Last edited on 13-Nov-2017 00:43:45 by AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

Posts: 1,053Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Sodden Hound said:
...


Do we know for a fact demons and nihil are summoned from the Spirit Plane? Just because all other familiars are doesn't mean they have to as well. The Phoenix familiar for example doesn't come from the Spirit Plane, it's a spectral version of the original one, summoned by using part of its essence. Demons have of course traditionally been summoned from other realms as well, most notably by Bilrach.
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I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

13-Nov-2017 00:43:14

AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

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You could probably say something about the intelligence of various animals as well. Is it canon that almost every animal in the game can be talked too. Does C.A.T.T.L.E. actually exist? Even then, I'm open to the idea that Summoning familiars can be summoned from anywhere (or at least any afterlife). As long as you have a piece of the creature's essence it might be possible to call upon a spectral form of it. Maybe the Phoenix is not unique. I suppose you could argue it's even tied to prayer. -
I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

13-Nov-2017 00:53:23

AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

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Elf of Seren said:
Telos and Vorago were created by the Anima, not Guthix. They were created by the Anima for the sole purpose of protecting it. They were not humans. They are not spirits. Your lore in this area is all over the place and highly incorrect.


No, you are misinterpreting what I'm saying.


I am THEORISING that the Anima construct might be similar to Nature Spirits, because Endgame implied Vorago was of mortal origin. I am not saying they were created by Guthix, I'm saying it might be a similar process to the one Guthix taught the druids.
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I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

13-Nov-2017 01:04:41 - Last edited on 13-Nov-2017 01:04:56 by AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

Posts: 1,053Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Elf of Seren said:
AesirWarrior said:
because Endgame implied Vorago was of mortal origin.


Transcripts?


Vorago

Vorago: Player, it is good to see you again. Granted, meeting under these circumstances is not ideal.
Vorago: I'm impressed you've come this far. Even I, 'the Enduring', can feel my power diminishing.
Vorago: I cannot feel the earth as I once did; I feel a sense of separation. This is something that I have not felt in a long time.
Vorago: My mind is opening up, allowing me to recollect past events that have been concealed by the overwhelming urge to defend and protect this world.
Vorago: I am more in control of my thoughts, it's an odd but satisfying feeling to have. I sense forgotten pasts, forgotten stories, and a name I am unfamiliar with.
Vorago: In this state, I worry that I am unworthy of being known as the defeater that I am.
Vorago: I do not expect you to understand, it's something I have little information of myself. The power that runs through me is usually at the forefront of my mind, driving what I believe to be my sole purpose.

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Being "created" from the Anima Mundi does not mean they have to just pop out from the ground. Many things are created from existing parts.
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I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

13-Nov-2017 01:15:36 - Last edited on 13-Nov-2017 01:24:46 by AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

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I think it's important we distinguish between "artificial" Nature Spirits and "natural" Nature Spirits. For simplicity's sake I'll also consider some physical beings "spirits" as well. There's a lot of creatures that are considered "spirits" that nevertheless are corporeal, unlike the ghostly Ashuelot or Filiman. Instead of making this overly complicated by trying to debate whether "spirits" have to be incorporeal, I'll just include both.

Artificial spirits:

- Ashuelot Reis and Filiman Tarlock were both just human mortals, who have attuned their spirit to the local nature through a ritual. The only thing we know about the mechanics of this ritual is that it requires "something with faith", "something from nature" and "something of the "spirit-to-become" freely given.

This was most likely something Guthix learned from his connection to the Anima Mundi. It may or may not be necessary to be dead to become a nature spirit.

- The Acolytes of Seiryu's transformation from humans to Spirit Dragons is somewhat similar to the Nature Spirit transformation.

- Guthix could be argued to be similar to a Nature Spirit. His soul became tethered to the Anima Mundi, and he needed a druidic ritual to originally wake him in the third age.

Natural Spirits:

Now "natural" nature spirits (sounds weird doesn't it) is a bit trickier, because we don't know much about them. For simplicity's sake I'll define "natural" spirits as spirits created through the Anima Mundi directly (yes yes I know all Life technically is, but you get the point) , not through Guthixian (or other) rituals.

- Nymphs could potentially be "natural" spirits, but they could just as easily be another species from Renmark, or Guthixian who underwent the ritual. I find the latter fairly unlikely though.

- Most likely the Sea Creatures from the Wushanko Isles

- Hati, Sköll, Fenrir and the Kendal?

Could be either:

- Fossegrimen

- Spirit of Farradorn? Unless it's just her name.
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I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

13-Nov-2017 02:20:34 - Last edited on 13-Nov-2017 02:30:32 by AesirWarrior

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