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Seren is Nuts

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Orcrist9
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2015

Orcrist9

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I love her, but she's crazy. Straight up. She has a lot of conflicting dialogue alongside being very emotionally unstable. Now, I've only completed up to the Children of Mah, so I haven't done Sliske's Endgame. She could've gone to therapy in the meantime for all I know, but I don't think so. When I talked to her after The Light Within and was asking her about Zaros, I asked her if I should trust him, and she was basically like "Oh, well, that's up to you. I won't tell you either way." Then after asking her about his plans or whatever, she was like "Remember, my brother CANNOT be trusted." Man. And that's just what I remember right now.

Then there was that whole thing with Mah. Talk about being co-dependent. She'd potentially endanger the whole universe, herself, her brother whom she loves/hates, and the Mahjarrat whom she is remorseful for and stuff, and her elves, just to spare Mah. I mean, yeah, Mah had some bad stuff going on with her, but it was better to end her suffering and stop her from making everyone else suffer too.

I love Seren, and I think she's more accepting and peaceful for all beings, which is why I generally side with her, but imagining a world where Seren wins, and I say that subjectively, she's gonna need someone to help keep her sane. I guess that would be me, until I die my natural death. Then I guess we could just have tea parties in the Underworld or something.
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31-Dec-2017 23:52:26

MystLunaris

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Well, Seren is the Emotional one.
And really that makes her more of a danger to everyone around her than she is a benefit.
I could go on about the many reasons why I dislike her, but I'm drunk at the moment (because it's New Year's) so I'll leave it at that for now, I might come back later though.

I really hate that she basically only cares about her elves and stopping Zaros becoming an Elder God despite knowing all the stakes.
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01-Jan-2018 01:03:53

Ancient Drew
Jun Member 2019

Ancient Drew

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Well, she personally distrusts Zaros due to him leaving her and Mah first and foremost. And she seems to deem receiving life as the ultimate debt (see her defence of Mah in CoM and sticking by her after Zaros had left). Now, I know the situation there was complicated seeing as Mah was born in this cycle corrupted, likely by Wen, and she gave Zaros and Seren their aura abilities to play with and stay close to her. And both Zaros and Seren were aware that these abilities affected each other and as such kept a distance while, as Zaros put it after The Light Within, held resentments of sorts towards each other due to this.

I think Seren does love him as a brother and doesn't really want to see him come to harm as such, but his own aura ability likely affected her as much as her loving aura affected him and the elves. It's always been a messy situation, especially as Seren is emotion driven anyway and restoring her may have its convolutions later on depending on the player's choice, in addition to her shattering which rent her soul and consciousness as well as her body, but they do genuinely seem to care for each other, with Zaros saying he's happy that she returned and would like to reconcile. That being said, a long-brewed resentment rooted at their aura abilities lingers alongside a history of staying apart while yearning for each other. And it will likely take a long time to clear that up.

Seren does indeed have her flaws and comes off as crazy, but I know of her situation and as a stickler of Zarosian philosophy and staying as open-minded as possible, while knowing the importance of family, I would willingly help her out as a favour to him while gaining power in order to solve problems and keep the peace. At the end of the day though, love is insane. Good, one of the best things I could argue, but insane.
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01-Jan-2018 02:37:27

Lethalintent
Dec Gold Premier Club Member 2012

Lethalintent

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As previously stated, Seren is the pure emotional driven being to the Logical analytical reasoning mindset of Zaros.

If she seems crazy, imagine all the times in your life when you've acted out from emotion or ever really done anything that's ever been tied to an emotional feeling.

Seren is the apex of that.

Granted that if you've left out either Eluned or the Dark Shard she has been altered, and we still don't yet know what ramifications if any that'll have, Endgame did provide some clues though but I'll not spoil anything since you haven't yet done it.

Suffice to say she's not Crazy, but don't forget that every action she takes is driven by first and foremost pure emotional reasoning.
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01-Jan-2018 14:41:48

Pupppy
Nov Gold Premier Club Member 2010

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I don't think Seren is that much of a danger actually.

I mean, she does always speak up her mind, but at the vast majority of times she's just all talk, or at least cannot put up with doing violence on her own - or else, Zamorak would have been dead since long ago...

In fact I see her problem as quite the opposite: she does little action, for good or for worse, on her emotional states. Maybe she has learned from her previous mistakes and now is too fearful of unseen consequences and reactions to anything she would have wanted to do.

To give you an example, I believe that nowadays she'd be unwilling to sacrifice a few to save the many (like sara, zaros, zamy or even arma probably would) because she doesnt want to decide that those few should die; or on another example she'd be unwilling to teleport away an endangered city for knowing that a few would get lost on the way [and even if you had the perfect, logical plan to do so, she'd think something could still go wrong].

ps: note that I say nowadays - meaning that she regrets what she'd done to the mahjarrat before and would not do it again. That is what she says at least, and each one may decide if they should believe it or not. I do so because of the way I see her character as. Don't try to argue on my post because I wont reply honestly.

01-Jan-2018 20:30:48 - Last edited on 01-Jan-2018 20:33:55 by Pupppy

Renzler

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People dont give her enough I think, shes one of the Gods who takes responsibility for her actions and has them as her priorities:

-Tarddiad and the elves there, its her doing and what her absence caused, she wants a remedy.
-Her elves are dependent on her because of her effect on them which is why she remains in Priff but doesn't rule.
- Zaros is her "brother" and his motives to attain elder godhood are unclear and she knows this.

Seren is one god who also doesn't hide anything or have ulterior motives or selfish goals.
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02-Jan-2018 09:20:38

Hguoh
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2014

Hguoh

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Renzler said:
Seren is one god who also doesn't hide anything or have ulterior motives or selfish goals.


Except for the fact that she deliberately hid from the elves that they were addicted to her, used that addiction to manipulate them, and misled the Mahjarrat into believing she was Mah in order to convince them to give and take energy from Mah at specific intervals.

All of this involved hiding the facts from those she interacted with.
Her interactions with the elves stem from her being unwilling to let them die because it hurt her to lose them and then not wanting them to stop loving her if they learned the truth.
Her interactions with the Mahjarrat was her attempting to keep Mah alive for as long as possible because she couldn't bear it if Mah died.

Certainly seems like hiding things, ulterior motives, and selfish goals to me.

02-Jan-2018 17:14:55

Elf of Seren
Nov Gold Premier Club Member 2012

Elf of Seren

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Lethalintent said:
As previously stated, Seren is the pure emotional driven being to the Logical analytical reasoning mindset of Zaros.

If she seems crazy, imagine all the times in your life when you've acted out from emotion or ever really done anything that's ever been tied to an emotional feeling.

Seren is the apex of that.

Granted that if you've left out either Eluned or the Dark Shard she has been altered, and we still don't yet know what ramifications if any that'll have, Endgame did provide some clues though but I'll not spoil anything since you haven't yet done it.

Suffice to say she's not Crazy, but don't forget that every action she takes is driven by first and foremost pure emotional reasoning.


^ I would argue that this example is the most correct.

03-Jan-2018 02:57:19 - Last edited on 03-Jan-2018 02:58:27 by Elf of Seren

Prime Axiom
Jun Member 2019

Prime Axiom

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I always found it funny that during The Light Within that Seren tries to show you "evidence" of Zaros being willing to commit genocide, and it just turns out to be the moment Zaros decided to ditch Mah. Then you realize that Seren was literally designed to chain Zaros to Mah. It's no wonder that she would see Zaros leaving Mah and herself as the ultimate evil.

It doesn't make her evil. It just makes her biased.

03-Jan-2018 06:28:13

Orcrist9
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2015

Orcrist9

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Lethalintent said:
Suffice to say she's not Crazy, but don't forget that every action she takes is driven by first and foremost pure emotional reasoning.


Being driven first and foremost by pure, emotional reasoning is not actually reasonable or sound. Rather, it's very irrational behavior, and her actions -- her long co-dependence on Mah, reciprocating that co-dependence on the elves to the point where she had to shatter herself to keep them alive, willingly manipulating and sacrificing the Mahjarrat and other races of Freneskae for the benefit of Mah and herself, and breaking down in a lethal, screaming fit after killing Mah and being confronted for her offenses against the Mahjarrat -- are quite indicative of mental instability.

I'm not saying she's some abhorrent evil because of those flaws, but I think it's important to acknowledge that they are flaws. What Mah did to her, and Zaros, was really the bad mother case where the mother is so controlling and manipulative of her children that it harms them and leaves lasting mental and emotional trauma, and the fact that Mah intentionally amplified Seren's emotions only furthers that point.

I honestly believe that was the illustration Jagex was portraying between Mah, Zaros, and Seren, and I think it was further shown in Seren's repetition of Mah's co-dependence with the elves and with Zaros' rejection, rebellion, animosity and even apathy towards Mah. Like the sixteen-year-old son who runs away from home to get away from his bad mother and experience the real-world, leaving behind his younger sister to take care of poor, old, messed-up Ma.
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03-Jan-2018 09:42:29

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