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Seren, Zaros, Mother Nature

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KingStannis5
Feb Member 2019

KingStannis5

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Hexie Kazumi said:
Seren gave herself purpose, just as Zaros did. She had the emotions, and recognized Mah as the one who brought her into existence, and Mah was suffering. Alone. Hurt. Broken. Seren's compassion that she was born with is most likely what drove her to aid Mah. I highly doubt there was any kind of "Seren, mama... take care of me."

Seren's nature drove her to help Mah. She was not given a role, but she made one for herself, just as the Empty Lord did. So I would argue that your "basic gist" still falls short. I just felt it important to discuss the nature of these beings which kind of exist outside the norms of being that we see in mortals, or even the lesser gods.


They gve themselves purposes based on their initial experiences of the universes, which is exactly what i've argued.

02-Dec-2015 20:36:32

Hexie Kazumi
Jul Member 2012

Hexie Kazumi

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Raleirosen said:

I don't discount the possibility of them fulfilling grand roles in the scheme of the universe. But for now, I haven't seen anything that makes them that much different from the younger gods; what roles are they playing right now that are so crucial to existence as we know it? I can't think of anything, really. Caring for a senile Elder and creating an ultimately fragile empire on a single world are not tasks on which the fate of the universe depend, to be perfectly honest. To me it's equally possible that they'll end up dying, leaving the power vacuum to Saradomin & Co (assuming they survive, anyway). We'll just have to see how things play out.


It's not about a power vacuum. It's about a role vacuum. The cycle that the Elder Gods proliferate is a natural part of existence in. And this is not a cycle that could be properly managed by simple order and chaos. Nor, even if it could be regulated by these attributes, would Sara and Zam have the will, nor inclination, nor power, to regulate what is a normal part of existence.

KingStannis5 said:


They gve themselves purposes based on their initial experiences of the universes, which is exactly what i've argued.


You seemed to argue that these two were given purpose by some being, and not that they just happened.

03-Dec-2015 08:07:37 - Last edited on 03-Dec-2015 08:08:59 by Hexie Kazumi

Raleirosen
Jun Member 2019

Raleirosen

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Hexie Kazumi said:
It's not about a power vacuum. It's about a role vacuum. The cycle that the Elder Gods proliferate is a natural part of existence in. And this is not a cycle that could be properly managed by simple order and chaos. Nor, even if it could be regulated by these attributes, would Sara and Zam have the will, nor inclination, nor power, to regulate what is a normal part of existence.

No offense but that is complete and total conjecture. We have no idea what would happen to the universe without the Elders, whether or not */S could step up to manage whatever role vacuum exists (assuming they survive), or whether the younger gods could do the same (assuming they survive).
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03-Dec-2015 18:03:07

Hexie Kazumi
Jul Member 2012

Hexie Kazumi

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Raleirosen said:
Hexie Kazumi said:
It's not about a power vacuum. It's about a role vacuum. The cycle that the Elder Gods proliferate is a natural part of existence in. And this is not a cycle that could be properly managed by simple order and chaos. Nor, even if it could be regulated by these attributes, would Sara and Zam have the will, nor inclination, nor power, to regulate what is a normal part of existence.

No offense but that is complete and total conjecture. We have no idea what would happen to the universe without the Elders, whether or not */S could step up to manage whatever role vacuum exists (assuming they survive), or whether the younger gods could do the same (assuming they survive).


One would note that I didn't rule out the possibility of the young gods being capable of regulating the cycle. But it is doubtful that Saradomin and Zamorak would give a peddlephin about the cycles of existence. They will always try to push their own way of doing things, and would not help maintain the natural balance of things, even if they could.

Now, you are right that I added my conjecture to the mix. but that is not to say that I am completely wrong. I am right that the Elder Gods are just a natural way of things- they always are, and do as they do in a repeating cycle that creates and destroys. The opinion comes in when I say that this is a cycle that must occur- albeit one based on philosophical paradigms that certainly exist in Universe, with some evidence (ie, what happened when Seren denied the destructive part of herself, rather than working with her nature- this supports my point about her role)

You are right, that we don't know what will happen w/o Elders. But it is safe to say that the entire fabric of existence would change in some way. I'm sorry, all-powerful creator beings dying simply doesn't seem like it would be impactless. I think you would agree w/ thi

03-Dec-2015 18:15:07

Raleirosen
Jun Member 2019

Raleirosen

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Hexie Kazumi said:
One would note that I didn't rule out the possibility of the young gods being capable of regulating the cycle.

Sounded to me like quite the opposite:
Hexie Kazumi said:
Nor, even if it could be regulated by these attributes, would Sara and Zam have the will, nor inclination, nor power, to regulate what is a normal part of existence.


But yes, other than that I agree.
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04-Dec-2015 01:13:33 - Last edited on 04-Dec-2015 01:13:49 by Raleirosen

Hexie Kazumi
Jul Member 2012

Hexie Kazumi

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In the world of Gielinor, events in the game have pretty much supported ideas of Balance and Harmony. That is why I offered my opinion as if it were the likely truth. Much has happened when Balance was violated, and when the ways of nature were violated. When Seren denied her nature, things happened. When a T2 god of nature died, the world started seeping energy. When Zamorak was filled with hatred, and the SoJ was overflowing with negative energy, it exploded with more energy than an H-bomb. It's also worth noting that abominations and unnatural beasts spawned throughout the wilderness as a result of this, and from no will on Zamorak's part.

Things just happen when the Balance of the Universe is disrupted. And the manners in which this occurred seemed to line up with theories of Harmony and Balance that I know of. Hence why I offered an opinion. All the god's paradigms have some creedence and truth in Gielinor. Guthix's is no different. And Guthix's philosophy is one that lines up with real world philosophies of Harmony and Balance. Such theories inform what I am saying, and not mere conjecture

The events of Gielinor's Universe seem to favor a world whose natural state is Balanced. And that is where my argument stems from

Regarding the power comment, I don't backtrack entirely. I still doubt that they would have enough power to affect anything more than a single world. But I do not claim an absolute this time.

04-Dec-2015 14:51:35

Lego Miester

Lego Miester

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I think that's looking too much into it. Seren and Zaros's genders are hardly relevant to anything considering they, like even the young gods, are shapeshifters. It's like 'what is Angof?' Whatever it feels like being at that point in time.

The emphasis has been on their polarity of personality. Cold logic vs unpredictable emotions. Light and dark, neither wholly good or bad.

If I were to wax philosophically on that I'd call them a representation of the human condition as a narrative device. We ourselves are not wholly logical or wholly emotional. Neither can exist without the other. Light and dark, yin and yang, etc.
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13-Jan-2017 20:03:59

Questcaping
Dec Member 2016

Questcaping

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Honestly, I don't think this really fits, but then I haven't really gleaned enough Seren/Zaros lore from the wiki to be able to argue very much. I'll just be over here working on those quest requirements...

Something I would like to drop in, though, is this tidbit from Mod John A in 2014 (found through my recent addiction to reading Lore Forum Q&As) --

Original message details are unavailable.
The Elder Gods *don't* really have a gender in the same way as humans do, but "she" is their preferred pronoun rather than "he" or "it". The same probably applies to Zaros and Seren as well - they might not have gender themselves, but when they observed mortal languages they would decide whether they wanted to be treated as male or female for the purposes of language.


Make of that what you will.
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