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Let's talk about Azz and Moia.

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Lethalintent
Dec Gold Premier Club Member 2012

Lethalintent

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Ancient Drew said:
What would Azzanadra say if he knew that Moia was being perpetually abused by Lucien?


Lucien abused everyone, he'd probably tell her to get as much joy out of his death like the rest of them.
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22-Dec-2016 18:33:08

Solanumtinkr
Jul Member 2009

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Lethalintent said:
Ancient Drew said:
What would Azzanadra say if he knew that Moia was being perpetually abused by Lucien?


Lucien abused everyone, he'd probably tell her to get as much joy out of his death like the rest of them.
No, if someone is that bigoted it would still focus on her being an abomination that should have died long before then. Anything else wouldn't even cross their mind.
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22-Dec-2016 18:35:40

AesirWarrior

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Hazeel said:
The Mather1 said:
Sliske was a strong Mahjarrat, but not by far the strongest. Although his trickery gives him one hell of an edge, that's still not even comparable Azzanadra's magic, which was able to instantly create a force field capable of withstanding an explosion that devastated a fifth of the continent.

I have no doubts that a fight against Azzy would be a hell of a lot tougher than Sliske's fight, even if he fights completely fair. And that there's no way we'd be putting much of a scratch on him unless we enter World Guardian mode again.


I did say before CoM ritual. Now? Yeah, Azzanadra might be stronger. Before? Sliske was a tier ahead of him and had the staff on top of that. When we watch Zamorak in a similar situation, he literally just swatted Azzanadra aside.


Mahjarrat tiers aren't just about magical might though. IIRC they're also about political power.
-
I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

22-Dec-2016 18:46:40

AesirWarrior

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NotFishing said:

He views the WG as an equal because the WG has proven that they are, in fact, an equal


Equal? Equal?!

Haha no. He still considers us below a Mahjarrat.
-
I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

22-Dec-2016 18:47:39 - Last edited on 22-Dec-2016 18:48:31 by AesirWarrior

Lethalintent
Dec Gold Premier Club Member 2012

Lethalintent

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AesirWarrior said:
NotFishing said:

He views the WG as an equal because the WG has proven that they are, in fact, an equal


Equal? Equal?!

Haha no. He still considers us below a Mahjarrat.


Incorrect. Azzanadra has called me a friend, and is glad that we're on the same side.

"Back at the height of the empire, had someone told me that Zaros would be banished from this world, I would not have believed it. After his banishment, had someone told me that a mere human would be the one to return him, I would have laughed. These things have taught me humility, a trait others of my kind lack. But I'm not entirely sure you are human anymore. No, you are something else now. I am glad you are on our side."

Doesn't seem like he views me as lesser for being a human.

Although you, most likely. I doubt he likes you. You don't bathe,
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22-Dec-2016 18:57:04

AesirWarrior

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Lethalintent said:
AesirWarrior said:
NotFishing said:

He views the WG as an equal because the WG has proven that they are, in fact, an equal


Equal? Equal?!

Haha no. He still considers us below a Mahjarrat.


Incorrect. Azzanadra has called me a friend, and is glad that we're on the same side.

"Back at the height of the empire, had someone told me that Zaros would be banished from this world, I would not have believed it. After his banishment, had someone told me that a mere human would be the one to return him, I would have laughed. These things have taught me humility, a trait others of my kind lack. But I'm not entirely sure you are human anymore. No, you are something else now. I am glad you are on our side."



"In the short time I have known you, your powers have grown considerably. You have a remarkable inner strength, and a capacity to overcome any obstacle. I doubt it will be long before you can stand up even to one of my kind. I have been honoured to call you a friend. But, if Zaros dies as a result of your actions, do not think for one second that any of that will save you. I will pour every ounce of my strength into your destruction. Nothing will stop me! Do you understand? Nothing!"

(I actually restored Zaros, but I think that dialogue is available if you hindered him)

He's quite clearly implying we aren't near a mahjarrat in his eyes yet, and certainly not equal to Azzy himself.

We're an ally and friend, sure, but not at all equal.
-
I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

22-Dec-2016 19:02:28 - Last edited on 22-Dec-2016 19:02:59 by AesirWarrior

Lethalintent
Dec Gold Premier Club Member 2012

Lethalintent

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AesirWarrior said:
Lethalintent said:
AesirWarrior said:
NotFishing said:

He views the WG as an equal because the WG has proven that they are, in fact, an equal


Equal? Equal?!

Haha no. He still considers us below a Mahjarrat.


Incorrect. Azzanadra has called me a friend, and is glad that we're on the same side.

"Back at the height of the empire, had someone told me that Zaros would be banished from this world, I would not have believed it. After his banishment, had someone told me that a mere human would be the one to return him, I would have laughed. These things have taught me humility, a trait others of my kind lack. But I'm not entirely sure you are human anymore. No, you are something else now. I am glad you are on our side."



"In the short time I have known you, your powers have grown considerably. You have a remarkable inner strength, and a capacity to overcome any obstacle. I doubt it will be long before you can stand up even to one of my kind. I have been honoured to call you a friend. But, if Zaros dies as a result of your actions, do not think for one second that any of that will save you. I will pour every ounce of my strength into your destruction. Nothing will stop me! Do you understand? Nothing!"

(I actually restored Zaros, but I think that dialogue is available if you hindered him)

He's quite clearly implying we aren't near a mahjarrat in his eyes yet, and certainly not equal to Azzy himself.

We're an ally and friend, sure, but not at all equal.


That dialogue you mentioned is only if you hinder and are glad that you did so.

It could be his opinion on us being equal or not is dependent on if we help Zaros or not, which makes sense.
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22-Dec-2016 19:05:09

Rykan

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Azzanadra is just a traditional Mahjarrat.
He's only offended by Moia because he wants to protect Mahjarrat culture.
Moia isn't really a Mahjarrat, she's more human than mahjarrat, this is why Azzanadra does not see her as the future of his race.

A point I'd like to make alongside this, is that Azzanadra didn't seem like himself during the quest. Azzanadra seemed rather angry, in a way like he was struggling to cope with something. I would Assume this is because of his position after the Children of Mah.

22-Dec-2016 19:05:38

Hauyne

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I personally think that it was fair that Azzanadra is written to be repulsed by Moia being a hybrid, as it adds character development.

Some time ago, it was all Zarosian Mahjarrat being nice and friendly while Zamorakian Mahjarrat being evil villain-jerks. Now we get to see some niceness and jerkiness on both sides. On the Zamorakian side, Zemouregal and Lucien saw Moia as a lowly half-breed, it is fair to see that on the Zarosian side Azzanadra thought of the same.

I absolutely agree that Moia does not deserve being threatened, ridiculed, and insulted for being a hybrid, but Azzanadra's reaction wasn't completely unfounded.

It has been mentioned many times in this thread, but how many of us who's currently discussing this would be completely comfortable to the of a human/non-human hybrid walking around claiming to be the future of our race, even if the said hybrid is just as capable or even more capable than a pure human being?

Regarding the differences between the two races, for example, chimpanzee and human share about 99% of genes, but most people still wouldn't think that the differences are small enough for the crossbreeding of both species to not be bestiality.

Regarding if Azzanadra actually think humans as lesser than Mahjarrat, I think that it is very possible. Humans are in fact weaker than Mahjarrat in many aspects. However, out of all the races in Runescape, the power disparity between the strongest(World Guardian, Nomad, etc) and the average(lvl 3 man/woman) humans seems to be the greatest. Hence he may not consider all humans to be inferior to Mahjarrat. Maybe that was why Bilrach stated that he has always taught Moia to be more than Mahjarrat, because some humans can be incredibly strong.

22-Dec-2016 20:20:34

The Mather1
May Gold Premier Club Member 2008

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Hazeel, you're just straight up ignoring lore here. A firebreath from a dragonkin is nowhere near the power of a god spending all his energy in a self-destructive blast. Tumeken's blast took out an area roughly the size of India (determined by comparing Gielinor's coordinates to Earth's).

Azzanadra is canonically the most powerful Mahjarrat still alive (and still Mahjarrat), and has been so since Temekel's death. His power is such that he is comparable to Nex at the peak of combat, when even the gods are said to fear her. He is on a scale beyond what any being not of divine energy could hope to compete with.
"Abscondita est in Astra."

22-Dec-2016 21:28:02

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