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AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

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The scale of the Elder Gods' creation is mind-numbingly huge, far more than I originally thought at least. You have a myriad of different planes of reality, all with potentially different physical laws. There are countless worlds, stars, and everything in-between.

With such a huge and ancient universe Gielinor appears almost insignificant in comparison. It's just a tiny blip compared to the size of the universe. Yet apparently it can generate enough power to sustain the creation of another universe after this one. The Elder Gods can apparently create something which gives them more power than they used in creating it. Energy cannot be created or destroyed, except in Runescape it seems, where the power to create thousands of stars seems to come from nothing.

TL;DR: Why is Conservation of Energy not a thing in this universe?
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I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

25-Sep-2017 22:57:15 - Last edited on 25-Sep-2017 23:00:40 by AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

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Aerak said:
AesirWarrior said:
The scale of the Elder Gods' creation is mind-numbingly huge, far more than I originally thought at least. You have a myriad of different planes of reality, all with potentially different physical laws. There are countless worlds, stars, and everything in-between.

With such a huge and ancient universe Gielinor appears almost insignificant in comparison. It's just a tiny blip compared to the size of the universe. Yet apparently it can generate enough power to sustain the creation of another universe after this one. The Elder Gods can apparently create something which gives them more power than they used in creating it. Energy cannot be created or destroyed, except in Runescape it seems, where the power to create thousands of stars seems to come from nothing.
Or maybe Gielinor is simply refining power from somewhere like the Void? Maybe Anima is just refined Void energy?


Actually, now that I think about it, maybe it has something to do with the Chakra analogy (which I'm slowly starting to understand). Do the Elder Gods start with a more elemental form of energy which is then purified into pure anima/soul with a perfect world?
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I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

25-Sep-2017 23:02:44

AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

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I'm sorry, but I don't see what the problem is here. I haven't seen anything that implies Jagex "changed their mind" about the shape of the universe, because they never established a shape to begin with. They've just used different models to explain it. Jagex never said the universe was cheese shaped, they never said it was Torus shaped, nor did they say it was shaped like a beehive. These were all simply models to explain how the universe works: How the planes, abyss, the void and so on work in relation to each other.

Now you might prefer one model over another, but I wouldn't call this a "problem", because they don't actually contradict one another. Note how Rowley doesn't state the Cheese model is wrong, simply that a Torus might be more accurate. Nevertheless they're both still just simple models to explain a universe which frankly is most likely impossible to portay accurately on a 2d, or even 3d, surface.

Gamez X said:

but again this makes no sense. The abyss didnt exist until the elders started making planes so there couldnt of been a planet on the jas path that survived.


Says who? Who says the abyss of the old revision is destroyed when the new universe is created? The abyss could very well be a constant that has always existed. In fact, I'd say current lore confirms it

BikKra: Yes, now you mention it I do know what you are referring to. It arrived suddenly with magic that reeked of the Abyss and then she performed some ritual or other on me. That too reeked of the Abyss. I'm not complaining of course, soon everything will need to be cast into the Abyss. When She awakens she'll rework this world, fix it, remove the mistakes and cast them into the Abyss with the other rubble. All these mistakes that think themselves alive will be hurled into the Abyss where they can be rightfully forgotten.
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I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

08-Oct-2017 14:50:53

AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

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BikKra: Your opinion hardly matters. Ultimately it's the way of things. All will be remade and improved and the debris cast into the Abyss. I am rather looking forward to it.


TokHaar-Hok: The first worlds were primal and chaotic. The masters tore them asunder, and cast the discarded clay into the abyssal void.

And the prehistoric Abyssal, which I'd say is implied to be a remnant from the previous revision considering it's seen the elders destroy worlds

It took me straight into the Abyss and there I met an ancient creature, with centuries of knowledge. It told me about other worlds that were destroyed by ancient, god-like beings.

Clearly this indicates that when the great revision takes place everything is thrown into the abyss, not just magically removed from existence forever. It's the garbage bin of the elders essentially.



Gamez X said:
The ingame location "the abyss" didnt exist until long after when zammy made it so thats not it.


I mean, it did, Hostilius just wasn't in it. The only thing Zamorak did was put Hostilius there, and we just accidentally teleport inside him because he's so large.
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I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

08-Oct-2017 14:57:11 - Last edited on 08-Oct-2017 14:57:57 by AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

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Gamez X said:
Also zammy didnt throw hostilus into the "the ingame abyss", he stretched him out to create teleport pathways through the universe to become that location. This ingame location and the abyss between worlds are not the same the thing and i think that is causing confusion. Which is why i've taken to calling the ingame location the hostilus rift and the space between worlds the abyss. The rift is inside the abyss but not the full abyss itself, it is confusing to word it right...


Yes Zamorak stretched Hostilius out in the abyss. I'm not saying he didn't. But if you remove Hostilius from the equation you're still gonna be in the Abyss, just without a giant demon in it. And no, Zamorak did not make Hostilius into a teleportation nexus, that is pure headcanon. The abyss is a medium through which teleports happen, Hostilius has nothing to do with it as far as we know.
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I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

08-Oct-2017 17:42:15 - Last edited on 08-Oct-2017 17:43:10 by AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

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Gamez X said:
The first wizards tower figured out they can use teleportation if they bend the path through a different dimension first


Indeed let's look at a few quotes, and other lore, shall we?

Rune memories:

Of course! That makes a lot of sense. Teleport spells need to move the traveler through a second plane of existence, in order to bypass obstacles. The teleport spells in the standard spellbook use a plane called the Abyss

For a teleport spell to be useful it has to bypass obstacles, and that's what the wizards of the old tower had so much trouble working out to do. That was the teleportation problem. Kelavan's breakthrough, the one you saw him make in the first memory, provided a means to travel around an obstacle by briefly entering a different plane of existence.

Abyssal book:

Abyssal Space is not a dimension in a way that we understand the term from examples such as Zanaris or Freneskae. Rather, it is the name we have given the dimension that exists between other more developed dimensions - the ‘glue’ that keeps each dimension together yet separate, if you will.
The Abyssal Space’s existence at the ‘fringe’ of reality means that it does not conform to the same guidelines of space and time as Gielinor does; you may enter it and then leave it from an identical spot, yet reappear many hundreds of miles at your target destination (the ‘teleportation’ phenomenon that we use daily).


Unless you want to pull the retcon card it's clear that it's the nature of the abyss as a glue-dimension between the planes that allow it to be used for teleportation, not an artifical construct.

TBC in next post.
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I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

08-Oct-2017 18:10:08 - Last edited on 08-Oct-2017 18:37:12 by AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

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Gamez X said:

Now lets look at this abyss and determine which one it is, is it the universal abyss or the hostilus rift? Well the first clue is the fact they made a demon pact to gain access to it, why would a demon who are only native to 1 planet in the entire universe have a monopoly on the whole of space in the universe?


You are making two assumptions here. One, that the abyss is synonomous with outer space, and two, that it's seperate from "the hostilius rift" as you call it.

All current lore indicates that the abyss is another dimension. It's been referred to as the "glue" between panes several times, and most Jmod models of the universe make a distinction between "space" and "the abyss". It is through its nature as another dimension that makes teleportation possible. The original dev who worked upon it used "warp space" as an analogy in his AMA. You enter a another dimension where space works differently to achieve nigh-instantaneous travel. Current developers still see this Warp/Hyperspace analogy as accurate. https://twitter.com/JagexStu/status/911893358758461440

As for Hostilius he's stretched out in the abyss. You refer to him as a "rift", but that seems to purely be based on the presence of Runecrafting teleports inside him. It's not that the Hostilius "abyss" and the normal "abyss" are seperate places, rather Hostilius takes up such a significant portion of the area of the abyss we access when teleporting that we end up inside him. You're still in the universal abyss no matter what. You're assuming Hostilius himself is important for teleportation, but apart from just being our access point I find that unlikely.

And as for the demon making a deal with Zanmaron. It's not that he has complete dominion over the entire dimension, but rather that he has the knowledge of how to strenghten its link to Gielinor. He's the keeper of the key to the abyss not the owner of it.
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I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

08-Oct-2017 18:27:53 - Last edited on 08-Oct-2017 18:31:59 by AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

Posts: 1,053Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
As for names needing to be defined, I'd say the current lore marathon did exactly that. It established how the abyss relates to the planes and how they relate to the planets within. Not to mention Mod Stu's comments earlier in this thread that clarified some of the questions regarding it. -
I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

08-Oct-2017 18:35:05 - Last edited on 08-Oct-2017 18:35:41 by AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

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Everything we know indicates that if you removed Hostilius from the equation teleports would still function, because it's the nature of the abyss itself that allows it, not his presence. The gods, and even mortal races like demons, teleported for aeons before Zamorak strung hostilius up. -
I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

08-Oct-2017 19:14:31

AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

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You are assuming that when Wizards refer to "the abyss" they actually refer to Hostilius and that when they refer to a dimension they only refer to the portion of it that he resides in, and that means Hostilius is a nexus for teleportation? Well, I prefer to take it at face value.

When wizards refer to the properties of "the abyss" is expect it to refer to the actual abyss, not Hostilius. You're saying they have the same name, but do they really? Has Hostilius' area ever been referred to as "the abyss"? Think about it. As we've already established he is in the abyss. Why should people be referring to the demon Hostilius when they say "the abyss"? Because ZMI experiments and teleportation accidents placed us inside him? They clearly still use the word to describe the dimension, not that one part we visit.


The problem is simply that for the longest time, probably until the release of The Account of Aesa Fellsdottir, we erronously believed that Hostilius' insides were all there was to the abyss, because that's the only part we got to see, but it isn't. When Wizards talk of the abyss' relation to teleportation why should I expect it to just refer to this secluded area?
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I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

08-Oct-2017 19:36:43 - Last edited on 08-Oct-2017 19:48:03 by AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

Posts: 1,053Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Gamez X said:
EDIT: Btw i say the hostilus rift was also called the abyss cus we know thats the name of the runecrafting portal location


Except it isn't. When did it get a name of its own? Because when we travel to "the abyss" we travel to inside Hostilius? Well Hostilius is in the abyss so why would you think they're only referring to that tiny portion of it rather than the entire thing when they say "the abyss". When has the word "abyss" ever been used to refer to a single area and not the dimension as a whole? We just call that Runecrafting location the abyss because that's the part of the abyss we actually visit. That doesn't mean that when people say "abyss" they refer to two seperate things, Hostilius and the rest of it.

There is no source for Hostilius being a teleportation nexus. All lore claims teleportations happens through the abyss, and why should that refer to Hostilius alone and not the dimension as a whole?
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I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

08-Oct-2017 20:31:49 - Last edited on 08-Oct-2017 20:32:44 by AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

Posts: 1,053Mithril Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Sodden Hound said:
^^^ The Void pest lore rn is really wonky since quests state that they're from a normal plane with a tropical climate, and they just use the Void to travel - but then recently Jagex said they're actually FROM the Void, so either it was a lorefail or their homeworld just drifts in the Void. If the latter is the case, it's possible that there are other elders that create other universes aside from OUR elder group, and possibly some universes that were created without Peripheries separating them from the Void.


I don't think it's a good idea to assume a retcon has occured. Currently we have both a quest and a lorebook confirming that the Pests come from another plane and merely use the Void to travel. Mod Stu most likely made an error (note his use of the word "inexplicably". Doesn't seem like a deliberate retcon to me!) . Either way, I'd argue in-game lore trumps out of game statements.

Also I don't think the preiphery is necessarily a defense mechanism. It's the edge of our universe, that doesn't mean it was deliberately created to defend against something. It may be necessary to contain the universe, to keep the universe from "popping", maybe there's nothing special at all about it and it's just how we comprehend the edge of our reality...
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I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

08-Dec-2017 16:20:02 - Last edited on 08-Dec-2017 16:20:41 by AesirWarrior

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