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Inherent spellcasting ability?

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iXavior

iXavior

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From Lore q&a (page 7)

Damp Dogger said:

What races DO generally need runes for standard magic

Mod Stu:
Those that don't have an inherent spellcasting ability.

-------------

And apparently races of the lower planes like vampyres can do such a thing.

What does Stu mean by "inherent spellcasting ability" and what relations does it have to the moonclan?

This terminology doesn't make sense because the definition of a spell is an incantation, ritual, magical gesture, or invocations used to cause a magical effect, and "spellcasting" is merely the verb form of doing magic. Yet, humans are known to cast spells using words and rituals too. We technically do have "spellcasting abilities," but what I do not understand is the inherent part? How is reciting words verbally (or if you are really talented, in your head) inherent? I don't think the Ga'al or Kennith know any wacky incantations at all.

What Mod Stu said contradicts what Mod Jack says on page 6 about Abyssal Demon magic..

Czar:
How do Abyssal Demons teleport? Are they small blinks or spells?

Mod Jack:
Most demons have magical abilities of one sort of another. These are inherent and probably
don't count as "spells" in that they don't need runes.
I worship Mah, for she is mah homegirl! The correct adjective for Mah's followers are: Mahomies, Mah-homeboys, or Mah-homegirls.

12-Feb-2017 23:31:37 - Last edited on 12-Feb-2017 23:31:59 by iXavior

AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

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You're tying yourself up in semantics. Don't get carried away looking at the definition of a "spell". Stu meant the exact same thing Jack did, even if he technically used the wrong term. Some races, like vampyres or demons, use magic naturally. Others, like humans, need a conduit. Vampyres and Demons are magical creatures, humans are not, but can learn to use it. It's not any more complicated than that. -
I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

12-Feb-2017 23:59:31

Elf of Seren
Nov Gold Premier Club Member 2012

Elf of Seren

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AesirWarrior said:
You're tying yourself up in semantics. Don't get carried away looking at the definition of a "spell". Stu meant the exact same thing Jack did, even if he technically used the wrong term. Some races, like vampyres or demons, use magic naturally. Others, like humans, need a conduit. Vampyres and Demons are magical creatures, humans are not, but can learn to use it. It's not any more complicated than that.


Basically this.

The only explanation you need is:
*M
A
G
I
C*


(and Anima stuff)

13-Feb-2017 02:01:40

Rifleavenger

Rifleavenger

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Doesn't the lore of the Moon Clan suggest that magic is ultimately internal to humans too? Runes serving only as a catalyst, created in the first place by people focusing their will upon essence? The Moon Clan themselves seem to have surpassed the need for runes to cast magic. Or Kenneth, given that in the absence of a redo or sequel to Salt in the Wound his powers are internal and not the product of a sinister power? What about the player character's magic abilities?

The way I read the answer seemed to imply the mods were saying magic works in a fundamentally different way for rune using races versus non-rune using races, rather than the simpler and more elegant older solution of some races needing a boost to achieve the same level of results. If it wasn't just communicated poorly, that would be a terrible retcon of how magic works in the Runescape universe.

01-Mar-2017 01:21:07

Elf of Seren
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Elf of Seren

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Rifleavenger said:
Doesn't the lore of the Moon Clan suggest that magic is ultimately internal to humans too? Runes serving only as a catalyst, created in the first place by people focusing their will upon essence? The Moon Clan themselves seem to have surpassed the need for runes to cast magic. Or Kenneth, given that in the absence of a redo or sequel to Salt in the Wound his powers are internal and not the product of a sinister power? What about the player character's magic abilities?


The Moon Clan essentially tied themselves to the RC altars when they went around the world building and doing stuff to them, thus no longer a need for Runes.

Kenneth is an outlier, as exists within any gathering of statistical information.

We require Runes about 95% of the time, Guthix supplied our World Guardian powers, etc.

01-Mar-2017 19:05:53 - Last edited on 01-Mar-2017 19:06:13 by Elf of Seren

Rifleavenger

Rifleavenger

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Elf of Seren said:
Rifleavenger said:
Doesn't the lore of the Moon Clan suggest that magic is ultimately internal to humans too? Runes serving only as a catalyst, created in the first place by people focusing their will upon essence? The Moon Clan themselves seem to have surpassed the need for runes to cast magic. Or Kenneth, given that in the absence of a redo or sequel to Salt in the Wound his powers are internal and not the product of a sinister power? What about the player character's magic abilities?


The Moon Clan essentially tied themselves to the RC altars when they went around the world building and doing stuff to them, thus no longer a need for Runes.

Kenneth is an outlier, as exists within any gathering of statistical information

We require Runes about 95% of the time, Guthix supplied our World Guardian powers, etc.


The Moonclan manual says that humans could manipulate essence for what were essentially cantrips prior to making the altars, through their own effort. That still suggests that magical ability is internal in humans and essence/runes only a catalyst through which that internal power can be amplified.

It's the difference between the power being drawn only from the runes, and runes being a material easy enough to manipulate that races with weaker magical ability can work with them. Like the difference between an average Ourg being able to bend granite while an average human can only bend mudstone or clay. The ability to bend rock is not something granted by the rock itself, simply by the differing degrees of strength the two races possess.

That's how I understood magic, and it was simple, elegant, and universally consistent. Now the mods seem to be saying something different, closer to early Runescape where the assumption was that magic didn't exist w/o runes.

01-Mar-2017 19:34:43 - Last edited on 01-Mar-2017 19:35:51 by Rifleavenger

comics1996

comics1996

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The Moon Clan essentially tied themselves to the RC altars when they went around the world building and doing stuff to them, thus no longer a need for Runes.

Kenneth is an outlier, as exists within any gathering of statistical information

We require Runes about 95% of the time, Guthix supplied our World Guardian powers, etc.[/quote]

The Moonclan manual says that humans could manipulate essence for what were essentially cantrips prior to making the altars, through their own effort. That still suggests that magical ability is internal in humans and essence/runes only a catalyst through which that internal power can be amplified.

It's the difference between the power being drawn only from the runes, and runes being a material easy enough to manipulate that races with weaker magical ability can work with them. Like the difference between an average Ourg being able to bend granite while an average human can only bend mudstone or clay. The ability to bend rock is not something granted by the rock itself, simply by the differing degrees of strength the two races possess.

That's how I understood magic, and it was simple, elegant, and universally consistent. Now the mods seem to be saying something different, closer to early Runescape where the assumption was that magic didn't exist w/o runes.[/quote] You did a good job explaining it. As it makes the most sence how our charters use magic.

01-Mar-2017 20:28:47

AesirWarrior

AesirWarrior

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Rifleavenger said:
Magic Magic Magic Magic... Magic


The way I see it, there's been no retcon, or at least not a major one. Like you said, humans are naturally able to do magic and can even become skilled enough to perform it wihout runes. However, unlike demons we don't come out of the womb (well, demons aren't born that way, but that's besides the point) with the ability to just cast spells out of nowhere. We have to be taught how to manipulate the wind or shoot fire from our hands. To a demon, or any of the other races with "inherent spellcasting", magic is like breathing. To a human, magic is more like trying to learn a martial art.

Original message details are unavailable.
It would take the best of them a full year to master the fundamental principles of blood magic.

For me, it was as breathing.

- Lowerniel Drakan.

Going by Heart of Stone, (mortal) magic is harnessing the power of the anima mundi. It's something anyone can do in theory, but some races are more capable than others. I suspect it has something do with coming from the lower planes and the anima mundi being more "raw" there. Humans come from a higher plane, which makes it harder to harness this power, hence why most of us require runes to channel it.
-
I have noticed your kind does tend to blindly stumble forward towards danger simply because it exists. What is your word for that?
- We call it being a hero.

02-Mar-2017 19:29:56 - Last edited on 02-Mar-2017 19:30:34 by AesirWarrior

HalloweenFox
Aug Member 2018

HalloweenFox

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The "inherent" magic of certain races like demons or the Mahjarrat comes from the fact that they are essentially just magic energy incarnate, originating either as creations of elder gods, or from anima mundi directly (like Vorago) which is also why they seem to start just fading away if they use too much magic. Unlike magic-based organisms, biological organisms like humans, dwarves, aviansie, etc. need to draw energy from something else in order to use magic, and these sources all either directly or indirectly come from anima mundi and/or elder gods.

Different races on different worlds have found different methods for harnessing different sources of anima energy or residual energy left behind by elder gods when they made the planets.

Pretty much all magic is just the energy of anima mundi in one form or another. The elder gods harvest energy from the anima mundi in planets in order to create more planets to grow more anima mundi and so on (kinda like a chicken and egg situation).

22-Mar-2017 21:31:14 - Last edited on 22-Mar-2017 21:35:58 by HalloweenFox

Sepulchre
Feb Gold Premier Club Member 2019

Sepulchre

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I may be running off an hour of sleep and my vision is blurry, but I think I can still manage this.. I'm just repeating something I said before.

Magic is technically inherent to all beings. When sentient beings were created, it was due to imperfections in the anima of the world they were on. Different imperfections and different environments created different sentient races, but in the end we are all of the Anima Mundi, and we return to the Anima Mundi. That branches off into my theory of the afterlife, souls, and physical forms, but that's for another time.
I really don't have the energy to repeat the whole 2 posts I once did, but I'll try to summarize it with this: Anima is the source of magic, runes are what help those of us who aren't in-tune enough with the anima inside of is to focus it. Beings who are born with the ability to do "magic" without runes have either evolved into this state, or the anima in them is drawn with more ease from their creation.
A
World Guardian
must learn to find
Balance
in themselves.
Only then can they
Control
themselves and forge their own
Fate.

04-Apr-2017 15:56:19

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