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Unpopular opinion?

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Arcumaries
Dec Member 2016

Arcumaries

Posts: 18Bronze Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Am I the only one that doesn't like the mining and smithing rework?
Perhaps its because I'm just not used to it, but I find it rather hard to get used to.
Also, it kind of sucks that I worked so hard to be able to mine rune, but now, I could have been level 50 mining to mine rune. I feel like the rework is only "rewarding" for newer players and not for players like me (I have played Runescape for nearly 15 years) who want the gameplay to be how it used to be without starting all over in an Old School account.
I understand that RS3 is supposed to be an everchanging game that updates with the times and to wants/needs of the majority of players, but this rework just doesn't sit well with me. It's the only update I can't really get on board with. Smithing takes longer and the Smithing interface is entirely different and, I find, more difficult to use compared to the older way.
Unpopular opinion, I suppose? Does anyone else have a similar mindset or other experiences they would like to share?
Naturally.

28-Jan-2019 03:05:17

Rikornak
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 5,363Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Why do you think it was good design to require two skills at 85 and 99 to smith a piece of armour you'd wear with level 50 (or even just 40 in RS2/Classic)?

Why do you think it was good design to have the ability to smith equipment solely for causing a loss to do so? Most players won't ever have actually smithed steel (yes - steel, not god damn runite) for using it for themselves, even less will have done that with mithril or higher.

Why do you think it is bad to be able to actually smith level adequate equipment: You know, you can mine an ore at mining level 90, you can make armour out of it with smithing 90 and you can equip it with defence level 90.

Why do you not feel rewarded to be able to smith the best in slot melee armour for reaching skill mastery? I mean - actual equipment, not some overglorified, valuewise overbloated piece of junk actually causing loss for being smithed. That was fine in 2001, maybe still in 2002 - problem is, something like 17 years has passed since then. Fact is - it was inadequate the second runite was no longer the best in slot equipment - and that was a point before even you started playing.
Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

28-Jan-2019 05:38:37 - Last edited on 28-Jan-2019 05:48:31 by Rikornak

Renny II
Feb Member 2018

Renny II

Posts: 220Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Rikornak said:
Why do you think it was good design to require two skills at 85 and 99 to smith a piece of armour you'd wear with level 50 (or even just 40 in RS2/Classic)?

Why do you think it was good design to have the ability to smith equipment solely for causing a loss to do so? Most players won't ever have actually smithed steel (yes - steel, not god damn runite) for using it for themselves, even less will have done that with mithril or higher.

Why do you think it is bad to be able to actually smith level adequate equipment: You know, you can mine an ore at mining level 90, you can make armour out of it with smithing 90 and you can equip it with defence level 90.

Why do you not feel rewarded to be able to smith the best in slot melee armour for reaching skill mastery? I mean - actual equipment, not some overglorified, valuewise overbloated piece of junk actually causing loss for being smithed. That was fine in 2001, maybe still in 2002 - problem is, something like 17 years has passed since then. Fact is - it was inadequate the second runite was no longer the best in slot equipment - and that was a point before even you started playing.


Absolutely spot on!

30-Jan-2019 14:12:32

Mad Mazie
Dec Member 2017

Mad Mazie

Posts: 75Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I love the mining rework but have several problems with the smithing one.

Namely,

-Portable forges removal hurt crafting

-It's very hard/expensive to get many invention parts now. Even though they fixed salvage buy limits, it simply doesn't buy. They should fix this by increasing smithed item buy limit back to 1000 and making it so higher quality items give more parts when dismantled. (wasn't the whole point of invention to deal with the excess items we make through skills?)

-It ruined one of my favorite methods of training smithing.. world 84, portable forge, making steel and mithril swords, maces, 2hs, you name it. Reasonably afk, decent exp, good profit. While it's certainly still possible to profit from smithing now, it's just not the same any more as it's more click intensive and gives less exp now.

31-Jan-2019 22:04:42

Rikornak
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 5,363Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Stuff that could (and should) be fixed fairly easily:

- Simply include smelting functionality to the portable crafter - done. Bonus points to have it work like the portable forge (increased chance for a free bar) before the rework in that aspect.
- As soon as they got the shop prices fixed again use those. They always were a cheap additional source which could be grabbed from time to time - for now the white knight armoury still works, offering a multitude of components cheaply.
- Use an auto-heater and/or the super heat form - Might not be the ideal xp/h, but it's still viable and you can fully afk it.
Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

01-Feb-2019 07:03:13 - Last edited on 01-Feb-2019 07:05:23 by Rikornak

Rikornak
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 5,363Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Of course shops aren't even intended for providing bulk materials, but they can easily help you to overcome a shortcoming of materials - i.*. quickly getting the stuff for a new rod-o-matic and by the time you need another one you can buy the stuff once more, while rotating between a few shops.

If you need the stuff in a bulk at once - buy salvage in the GE - most equipment actually were drops and salvage is basically the same.
Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

02-Feb-2019 20:02:47

dark_axil
Nov Member 2018

dark_axil

Posts: 198Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Not the only one Arcumaries, you and I certainly appear to be in the minority side of the divide too, but our dislike for the mining and smiting update is not unjustifiable, though unpopular it clearly is.
We must concede that a new interface can be gotten used to. As well: though Rune gear has tragically been rendered quite mundane, that has been happening gradually and organically for a while. We can say that the thought of starting again on Runescape Old School, after we've put so many hours into our accounts on RS3, cannot be given countenance. M&S has been reinvented for an ever changing game, like you rightly acknowledge, and there have undeniably been casualties made of once towering aspects of the game along the way. We just have to decide whether it's a game we still wish to play or not.

Rikornak's logic is nonexistent. Her three three asinine 'why' questions boil down to "But 90 isn't the same as 50". Asserting that, because one can wear rune at 50 defence one should also be able to make it at 50 smiting. And perhaps on the surface that looks right but it ignores the entire drop economy of killing monsters to obtain late createable items. I made my own set of steel, many people did contrary to her claims. No, I didn't craft my own set of Mithril, I killed some mobs for it, bought other parts from shops, other players too. I did the same all the way to full rune, engaging with the player base to get what I needed. And that is a perfectly valid system. With Adamant and Rune being higher level to smith it encourages the killing of mid-tier mobs and makes their drops worth more. Those that stuck it out to the 90th levels to smith rune were entitled to the profit they'd get (bars cost around 3k ATOW, plate bodies cost 37k). What we have is a new system with a fresh take on what is among the oldest two skills in runescape's history - with it's own pros and cons.

06-Feb-2019 18:01:27 - Last edited on 06-Feb-2019 18:03:18 by dark_axil

dark_axil
Nov Member 2018

dark_axil

Posts: 198Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Further: you could return the tone and question in kind: Why do you think it is unacceptable to kill for adequate equipment? Why do you think it is unacceptable to trade for adequate equipment? Why does it necessarily make sense to smith what you can wear?
The true fact of the matter is that it doesn't, it is just different, and the claim it 'makes more sense' is facile and ill-informed. I don't doubt there are other mid-tier mobs worth killing, I don't doubt that Runescape won't carry on just fine with this new set of armours as it's been diligently researched. But the argument that "You can wear it at fifty so you should make it at fifty" is utterly hollow. I can use black weapons at 25 attack but can't smith it, is that not ok? Personally, I can shoot a magic bow at 50 ranged and i've no problem with waiting till 80 fletching to craft one for myself. Until then I will buy one from a dude who can - supporting the skilling industries that produce them.

06-Feb-2019 18:02:47

Rikornak
Oct Gold Premier Club Member 2013

Rikornak

Posts: 5,363Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I guess you clearly didn't played before the rework - or you managed to warp your memories so extremely in just a month. If you got some rune bar pre rework for 3k this certainly had to be in some kind of parallel universe. Nope - sorry to break your illusion: Since smithing runite was worth quite a few xp, in consequence you've lost a few thousand coins for making a piece of equipment out of it.

As for drops: Nothing is bad with a drop as long as it roughly fits to the difficulty of a monster, it gets an issue if you're fighting something way higher levelled (so if a boss for level 70s drops stuff intended for players roughly around 70 all is fine - if a boss for level 90 only drops tier 40 items as their main reward something went horribly wrong - albeit some paststuck player might see it as good design of course).

It doesn't fit fully at all places, but for slayer they're more some source of income, rather than the place to equip yourself - and even if it was: It's nowhere close to be as broken as smithing was pre-rework.

Sorry to shatter your next illusion: Smithables weren't valuable because you learned them roughly 20 to 50 levels too late - they were backed up by their alch value - and only by that - maybe also by the possibility to disassemble them for a few components - take those two out and they would've dropped to their store values (the amount of gp you'd get if selling the stuff to a store). Too bad though they still caused a loss for the bars used due to the smithing xp they inherit.

Some economy 101 for you before you respond with even more nonsense: https://runescape.wiki/w/High_Level_Alchemy#Role_in_the_economy

Funny - magic shortbows are also broken - but not as much as runite was before. And well - you (and players like you) are not the reason why it has some value.

Black equipment isn't regular equipment so it naturally has other sources to enter the game (they're a fairy adequate drop for black knights to be honest - not just by theme).
Improvements: Tooltip / (F2P) QoL v2
Quick Fixes: Invention

06-Feb-2019 19:52:04 - Last edited on 06-Feb-2019 19:53:27 by Rikornak

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