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Renzler
Aug Member 2013

Renzler

Posts: 593Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Just wanted to put a thread out there asking if it would be at all possible to change some of the quest based decisions we made in the quests leading up to Sliske's Endgame to affect our canon story.

Not having to replay the previous required quests, but using the checkbox in the replay interface to change our canon story in our second canonical play through.

DoC with giving Saradomin the wand
FotG restoring Zaros to full power
DaT Betraying or helping Zamorak attack Sliske
TLW including the Dark shard, sacrificing Eluned
NE Death killing Gielinor

I understand not allowing change of allegiance in World Events due to them being temporary, but quests that impact possible outcomes of the Endgame should also be allowed to be changed for our 2nd canon play through, as this does reflect the lore.
WE1- Aligned/
Saradomin
(W)
WE2- Aligned/
Armadyl
(W)
WE3 -Aligned/
Godless
(W)

05-Feb-2018 08:00:31 - Last edited on 05-Feb-2018 08:03:43 by Renzler

Renzler
Aug Member 2013

Renzler

Posts: 593Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
If possible I would greatly appreciate a comment from Mod Raven, Mod Osborne or any other J-Mods. Thank you WE1- Aligned/
Saradomin
(W)
WE2- Aligned/
Armadyl
(W)
WE3 -Aligned/
Godless
(W)

05-Feb-2018 08:01:24

Lethalintent
Dec Gold Premier Club Member 2012

Lethalintent

Posts: 7,342Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I disagree.

Even though I have choices I bitterly regret
My Dearest Eluned...
we shouldn't be able to change them, because that would negate the impact of the choice. We have to all shoulder our choices in life and make the best of them what we can.

Choices matter because they stick, sure we were given a free second canon run through, but that's due to on launch issues and added dialogue that wouldn't of been fair to keep from people having already played through the Quest.
Zarosian Lorehound

Master Questcape Owner

Inconsistent Completionist

05-Feb-2018 13:50:05

Hguoh
Mar Gold Premier Club Member 2014

Hguoh

Posts: 7,380Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
The only thing I'd wish they'd let us do is choose allegiances for world events the account didn't participate in. I mean, canonically the player character was there for those events, but new and returning players will be locked into the game treating them as if they'd aligned against both/all the involved parties (despite never having an opportunity to make any choice on the matter).

Edit: Heck, use the NPCs that let us replay the cutscenes. Ex:

Player: Can you remember who I fought for here?
NPC (if an allegiance has been declared for the world event): Ah yes, you fought for *insert god here.* (Follow up with appropriate dialogue regarding your allegience vs the npc's (ex: Saradominist preacher being outraged if you sided with Zamorak in WE1).

NPC (if an allegiance has not been declared for the world event): Ah yes, you fought for...
Choose a god to have fought for: <god1> <god2>
You will not be able to change this decision once it has been made. Are you sure you want to choose *insert god here*?: <yes> <no>

(if no is chosen, dialogue ends)
(if yes is chosen, dialogue resumes from the *allegiance has been declared for the world event* branch)

05-Feb-2018 17:42:54 - Last edited on 05-Feb-2018 18:11:50 by Hguoh

Renzler
Aug Member 2013

Renzler

Posts: 593Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Lethalintent said:
I disagree.

Even though I have choices I bitterly regret
My Dearest Eluned...
we shouldn't be able to change them, because that would negate the impact of the choice. We have to all shoulder our choices in life and make the best of them what we can.

Choices matter because they stick, sure we were given a free second canon run through, but that's due to on launch issues and added dialogue that wouldn't of been fair to keep from people having already played through the Quest.



Well I do agree with you somewhat, but they are giving us a second canon replay for one of the biggest quests of the Sixth age to change our outcome and that cant necessarily be done unless certain choices in previous quests are made.
WE1- Aligned/
Saradomin
(W)
WE2- Aligned/
Armadyl
(W)
WE3 -Aligned/
Godless
(W)

05-Feb-2018 21:01:42

Mod Raven

Mod Raven

Jagex Moderator Forum Profile Posts by user
So the reason we offered a second canon playthrough was because there were a few technical issues in some of the earliest playthroughs. Whilst we fixed these issues, we couldn't change it retroactively for those who suffered through them, so the only solution available to us was to create a second canon.

It should be clear that making a second canon playthrough was NOT a small job and created many potential dangers which we had to carefully investigate. This took a lot of time.

This was for a quest that had been built from the start to be replayed and Endgame uses certain techniques we wouldn't use in other quests (effective time limits, the ability for the player to "fail" and still complete the quest). Also all choices in Endgame are deliberately morally grey in the grand scheme of things (there are no right or wrong choices).

So Endgame is an exception to the rule, not the proof.

Choices should mean something, which means that they need consequence. Changing them on the fly AFTER you have seen the outcome means that they have no consequence (and potentially create more issues).

With Endgame, we're planning to lock your canon as soon as you start the next quest. Meaning you cannot use that information to "get the best outcome" and will need to see how your choices play out. So I recommend playing your second canon now, if you intend to.

There is no "right" outcome. All choices have consequences, some more obvious than others.

So in short, no, once you've made your choices you will need to live with them. ;)

= Raven =

06-Feb-2018 15:02:42

Adventurerrr
Jan Gold Premier Club Member 2018

Adventurerrr

Posts: 3,151Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Mod Raven said:
So the reason we offered a second canon playthrough was because there were a few technical issues in some of the earliest playthroughs. Whilst we fixed these issues, we couldn't change it retroactively for those who suffered through them, so the only solution available to us was to create a second canon.

It should be clear that making a second canon playthrough was NOT a small job and created many potential dangers which we had to carefully investigate. This took a lot of time.

This was for a quest that had been built from the start to be replayed and Endgame uses certain techniques we wouldn't use in other quests (effective time limits, the ability for the player to "fail" and still complete the quest). Also all choices in Endgame are deliberately morally grey in the grand scheme of things (there are no right or wrong choices).

So Endgame is an exception to the rule, not the proof.

Choices should mean something, which means that they need consequence. Changing them on the fly AFTER you have seen the outcome means that they have no consequence (and potentially create more issues).

With Endgame, we're planning to lock your canon as soon as you start the next quest. Meaning you cannot use that information to "get the best outcome" and will need to see how your choices play out. So I recommend playing your second canon now, if you intend to.

There is no "right" outcome. All choices have consequences, some more obvious than others.

So in short, no, once you've made your choices you will need to live with them. ;)

= Raven =


Told ya so.
the World Guardian
of Guthix
,
of the Godless
&
Quest Master

06-Feb-2018 16:42:14

Renzler
Aug Member 2013

Renzler

Posts: 593Steel Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I didn't think we would be able just wanted to pitch the idea, thanks Mod Raven I do understand your explanation and makes the choices more serious and dealing with the consequences of them.

I didn't want to change any decision trying to make the "right" or "best" choice but just wanted to alter my story line if possible but I figured the reason why we got the second canon play through was due to bugs and some glitchy areas in the quest.

I gotta say when you gave us the option of including the dark shard in Seren and whether or not to sacrifice Eluned in TLW, I seriously sat there and contemplated those decisions for about 15 or 20 minutes. most stressful quest decisions for me by far.
WE1- Aligned/
Saradomin
(W)
WE2- Aligned/
Armadyl
(W)
WE3 -Aligned/
Godless
(W)

06-Feb-2018 22:46:48 - Last edited on 06-Feb-2018 22:48:51 by Renzler

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