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HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

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Edit: To discuss a possibly determined solution, click here!


Conclusion

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Canon Catastrophe

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For years the W42 community has endured multiple split canon issues that have torn pieces of the community from the bulk canon. As a result, what is left of the fractured community is a few tiny cliques that tend to have plentiful out of character tension. Due to hug box bubble Discords where toxic gossip stagnates, nothing progresses. In fact, everything seems to move two steps forward and ten steps back each time a split canon arises from these same repetitive "inactivity" spiels offered as an excuse to the very clear out of character spite for and between specific unnamed individuals.

Each and every time, the issue is covered here in the forums. Likewise, each and every time forum mods are used as a meat shield and figurative Gestapo to silence any and all negative reaction and fallout inevitable when you blacklist an entire group, shove them beneath the rug and rewrite their stories they have worked on for so long.

This time, a group has not just rewritten the storyline of a character and group, but years upon years of work since the beginning of the W42 community. Kandarin has never undergone a successful split canon situation and has always continued on playing its story along, much unlike some other groups that have unfortunately been toxicly destroyed and the slate wiped clean of their work due to various reasons cherry picked by the powerplayers.
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
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Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

15-Jun-2019 12:47:02 - Last edited on 19-Jun-2019 14:23:20 by HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

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Not only this, but community leaders (self-appointed or otherwise) have stepped up this past week to wipe clean the slate of Kandarin and begin their own narrative of the large POK despite their own core values and guidelines taught to others screaming counter to every action they've taken.

The same people supporting this action are the same people who have done this in the past. Not only are some of them community leaders, but they are also in control of the entirety of W42's mainstream canon outside of Kandarin. This offers them ultimate authority to do as they please so long they all agree with one another, and have the ability but not the integral right to essentially blacklist and ignore all attempts to counteract their adamant decision.

The problem with this is that the solution offered is one unacceptable for any of the 36 people in the Kandarin POK. Not a soul in the POK is interested in a new narrative written for them, overwriting any and every existing plot, storyline and action leading up to the point. Not a soul is interested in losing their well-built character(s) played for nearly 10 entire years to a narrative dictating they died. Not a soul is interested in their hand-crafted families having private RP locations raided and plundered. Not a soul is interested in a split canon.

For years I have candidly argued against the existence of split canons. They inhibit all roleplay opportunity between split groups, and therefore slice pieces of the community in half. This time, a very large section is being torn away under the virulent illusion that the group is inactive, when in fact it is the contrary with plentiful people speaking against it.

Purchasing bonds or paying real world money for RS membership is not a factor to prove activity. A forum icon is not a factor to prove activity. A thread posted on is not a factor to prove activity. They are excuses to make destructive decisions for personal gain.
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
|
Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

15-Jun-2019 12:47:12 - Last edited on 18-Jun-2019 18:04:24 by HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

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A solution needs to be made. I offer no seamless solution but am hoping to provide the medium at which to discuss one, as the individuals causing the problem hide behind forum CoC to avoid negative feedback as much as humanly possible. This is the only correct way.

Should there be new community leaders? New guidelines? Should split canons be banned (yes)? At this rate I have no idea. Typically, these threads never work and are flamed into oblivion.

For this reason: please avoid personally targeting individuals and please remain civil.



Please discuss.
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
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Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

15-Jun-2019 12:47:16 - Last edited on 18-Jun-2019 18:03:47 by HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

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RiDaku said:
Metagaming: Taking advantage of knowledge that you know, but your character doesn't. Perhaps your character is leading an army, and you catch wind that there is to be an ambush where you're going. While it might suck for you that you cannot fairly do anything about that, if your character doesn't know, you're going to have to stay the course and deal with it. Or perhaps your character has been wounded in a small skirmish and PM your pal telling him to help you out. Now, if your character isn't capable of long distance telepathy, then it's metagaming.

Extensive Powerplaying: This refers to writing far beyond your own character. For example, controlling what NPC civilians do in another player's event, how another person's units behave, asserting your own actions as more important over another's, or refusing to acknowledge the weight of another player's actions. Seriously, this will ruin everybody else's fun in an interaction - If everything revolves around you, why bother writing with other people?


RiDaku said:
Take action against rule breakers: A healthy server starts with you. If someone you see is breaking rules or otherwise engaging in behavior not conducive to fun for everyone, investigate why. As mentioned with blacklists - sometimes an individual may have to be a little harsh because someone else never learns. That doesn't mean apparently toxic behavior will always be justified, though.
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
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Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

15-Jun-2019 12:47:21 - Last edited on 15-Jun-2019 13:36:32 by HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

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RiDaku said:

As a whole; these are the basics to prepare you.

Nobody needs permission to kill your character. An OOC mechanic, the Character Death Courtesy has emerged into the community, at least with the more text-centric roleplay. It offers the player who is victim to a kill-move to let the killer inflict a crippling, or incapacitating blow with permission; rather than end the life and story of the character. Regardless of what is said, no, your character doesn't have to resort to killing. (ransoming, crippling, abandoning, or listening to pleas of a yield are perfectly fine for most.) And also, no, the courtesy is just that, not a rule but something to ask to be polite and have both players leave the situation happily.

Obversely, anything violating Jagex's rules in any roleplay, cannot be roleplayed in any sphere, whether it be public, private, or sandbox.

Blacklists or exclusions are not allowed, unless someone cannot conform to the rules of a public setting. In this case, just ignore them.
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
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Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

15-Jun-2019 12:47:27 - Last edited on 15-Jun-2019 13:38:57 by HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

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Hazbollah said:
There shouldn't be 'community leaders' full stop. Frankly I'm not convinced anyone here is capable of it. I have seen a few self-professed representatives here on the forums and I can't help but laugh at your ego and entitlement.


I agree to an extent. I believe there should be "community leaders" in that they run the stickies, as they are. However, their authority should end there immediately. Currently, I feel like one of the owners of those two stickies overstep those boundaries very, very often. Not only that, but I think their sticky is confusing, overly complex and contradicts itself multiple times with the guidelines. That brings me to the next question.

Hazbollah said:
HC Tervuren said:
New guidelines?
Why? The ones we have are perfectly fine, provided people actually pay attention to them. The reason we have problems like these split canons is because people ignore the rules we've had for years and just do what they want and think that's acceptable.


Some guidelines we have in our stickies contradict one another. Two of them are quoted on the first page .. see the blacklisting sections. They are confusing and direct counter to one another.

I also suggest new guidelines given the split canon problem, where a guideline should be made dictating that split cannons are absolutely unacceptable.

Hazbollah said:
A bit more commentary which I imagine won't go down well: Kandarin is pretty notorious for its inactivity and landhogging and I think that would be hard to deny, but it certainly doesn't excuse the method of takeover.


I agree. It has been inactive many times, and land-hogging has been a thing before. Nowadays we typically give away land if a good enough reason is presented with a fun roleplay to boot. Like you said though, it's no excuse at all.

Thank you for the civil responses.
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
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Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

15-Jun-2019 14:25:26 - Last edited on 15-Jun-2019 14:28:19 by HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

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Hazbollah said:
In that case, the stickies should undoubtedly be addressed to be coherent. Suppose that calls for another community thread to revisit and cooperatively edit them? I'll not talk about my views on blacklisting because that's a different topic entirely.

I would certainly be for a guideline that doesn't accept split canons.


Somewhere in the depths of the sticky mentioned you can find a few pages where I and others argued against the complexity and contradictory nature of what all is said there. Despite that, no changes were made. :|

But I digress .. A guideline absolutely banning split canons would be great. It'd be one thing to create a new canon if a group completely abandoned their RP and all attempts to reach them were fruitless, but in this instance, we immediately reacted and have been on the case ever since.

Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to make the cut.
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
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Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

15-Jun-2019 14:50:22

HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

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Casindra Rin said:
What isn't cool, and what I cannot abide, is seeing someone specifically and publicy use someone else's character in a way that the owner of said character is very visibly not alright with.


Word. This is one of my least favorite things about this situation, the usage of a character for personal gain in the alternate canon they've made. Not only did they kill the character, but they are asking other people to play the ghost of the dead character after the character owner declined to even acknowledge the separate canon.

Powerplaying a character, killing them and making other people play the dead character is beyond breaking rules here. It's just a show of no core values.
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
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Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

15-Jun-2019 15:35:10

HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

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Ranpuff said:

Invite civil discussion about issues, absolutely, but there are better places to handle it.


What is your suggestion then? As stated by the CoC, this is the medium to discuss it:



The same is quoted by Community Manager Brandon.

CM Brandon said:

The last 2 pages of the discussion is better suited for a thread of it's own, or by PM/Discord, rather than on someone's thread like this.


Nothing is immature about this thread. This thread is, by design, created to civilly discuss the issue at hand: split canons, as they are destroying the RP community on the game. Not only is it here to discuss the issue, but to document and record it as reference material in a place where it can't simply be deleted by anyone other than myself or a forum mod.

I also don't see the forum mods as power-crazy. Specifically, I stated that they are used as a figurative Gestapo to silence negative feedback. Which is true - you will find individuals argue to their last word and add the brick wall "stop immediately or be reported" blanket statement at the end so that no further negative feedback can be provided.

Regardless of everything, this is the correct medium to address this issue.
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
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Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

15-Jun-2019 15:57:25 - Last edited on 15-Jun-2019 16:02:59 by HC Tervuren

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Ranpuff said:
He did, however, also suggest PM's or Discord... Which I believe the issue itself should've been contained to from the start.


This was attempted, and unfortunately had no success. The problem is that Discord is not regulated by an adamant CoC. Forum mods do act as mediators and keep things clean, and therefore of the three options to use Discord, DMs or the forums, this is most likely to succeed for that reason.

Either way, thanks for your input.
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
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Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

15-Jun-2019 16:21:24 - Last edited on 15-Jun-2019 16:21:35 by HC Tervuren

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Casindra Rin said:
I'd request that my character's name be taken out of their story in toto.


Unfortunately, this has also been attempted .. I think everything has been tried, and it seems they don't care much about what other people think. I'd quote the areas where all this was mentioned on their thread although all of it was hidden by a forum mod. Them having so much control over the mainstream canon allows them to kind of get away with rulebreaking, sadly enough.

Regardless, they've outright named him in multiple RPs and have stated that he died, before thereafter deciding that they'd use his corpse or ghost or what have you as a means to access a private RP location used solely for disposing of OP items that we thought shouldn't exist on W42, like dragon weapons and whatnot.

Either way, the knowledge of that place's existence and contents is metagaming. I digress again though, like I said it's been attempted with no result.
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
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Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

15-Jun-2019 17:05:07 - Last edited on 15-Jun-2019 17:06:48 by HC Tervuren

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Casindra Rin said:
Fair enough. I'm sorry it seems to be such a convoluted situation when it doesn't need to be, for everyone involved.


Thanks for your input though, very much appreciated. ^_^
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
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Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

15-Jun-2019 17:10:31

HC Tervuren

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Void said:
How many Asgarnia threads can I link that, in the past few months, have attempted to overwrite what Daku has been doing with full support from Vekonic Kandarin?


Actually, I've never supported any overwriting of any group ever. I suspect you may be talking about someone else. I have candidly argued against any split canon scenario no matter how ridiculous the actual canon group is or was.

Void said:
Three years ago you lost Kandarin in a very similar way - You were powerplayed


Powerplayed - full stop. In no instance should any group be powerplayed over. Ever. I don't need to say anything else on that at all.

Void said:
Do any of us remember how bad the in-game harassment was? How awfully you ganged up and chased people off for daring to try and replace your imaginary power?


Yes, I do remember harassment from both sides. Three years ago is a long time, and it is irrelevant now. Nobody has been harassing anyone in-game and people have matured. I however recall you or Ridaku claiming I "harassed" an RP dinner you had the other day, although I actually have screenshots of the chat there where I stated shortly that I'd respectfully wait for your RP to conclude before beginning mine.

Void said:
In truth, a lot of the people raising their voices in complaint right now are just the people who are being overwritten.


Don't you think? The people being overwritten and bystanders who abide by the basic rules of RP are voicing their complaints.
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
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Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

15-Jun-2019 22:51:26

HC Tervuren

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Void said:
We assume your main account is muted, HC Tervurens, because otherwise, you’d be using it. We won’t be discussing how that happened here today.


I use this account by my own free will. The other is not muted permanently, it was muted temporarily years ago after posting a gif of a cat typing on a keyboard. At the time, the CoC was different for image files posted and violated the rules. It doesn't now, but at the time it did.

It's entirely irrelevant.

Void said:
Of course, not everybody complaining right now are from your group. Up until now, the onlookers in this discussion have been only able to make opinions off of the heavily one-sided and cherrypicked problems that you’re raising.


I'm not understanding. You're contradicting yourself. There are definitely people outside of our group complaining, because this entire scenario is a perfect example of powerplaying.

Void said:
In short (or, length, from how much we’ve written), the crux of the issue here isn’t “rulebreaking.” What we are doing is within the rules of roleplay


No, it isn't. I don't know what makes you think that it is. Please reference any rules of any RP community that exists ever. You will find that what you're doing violates them all.

Void said:
You’ve done it before


No, we haven't. Not only that, but even if we had it gives you no right to do it as well. It is rule-breaking. It has no place in this community, RSRP wiki admin, sticky owner or POK owner aside. There is no inch of space for it.

Void said:
we’re all terribly unclear just how much of our land Vekonic Kandarin claims to hold with no means of retaking it, having been turned away when we attempted.)


You never once messaged me regarding Ardougne. Ever. There was never any attempt, at all.
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
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Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

15-Jun-2019 22:51:30 - Last edited on 15-Jun-2019 22:59:10 by HC Tervuren

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I will let Vekon conclude with the rest, as the remainder of what you've said targets him and his character.

That aside, the TL;DR of what you've said seems to summarize as "You did this before, therefore we can too because we think you're toxic and inactive."

Even if every single thing you've said were true to the T, it gives you no right to do so. Nothing was said (mostly) regarding Justin being overwritten for reasons I'm not aware of, as I was not active in the community at the time. And in fact, I was adamantly against Pyro taking control. If you don't recall, I ranted to him directly in Discord before being promptly banned due to opposing him.

It is all powerplay. All of it. None of it is permissible and I have never supported it.

Additionally, it is sickening that you, an RSRP Wiki admin would adamantly support such a thing like you are. Likewise, it is sickening that a RSRP Guide owner (Ridaku) adamantly supports it like he is. It truly shows the face behind the mask in the community, and it's bleak at best.


Regardless, I do appreciate you responding. I would hope that you go back on your decision that this be the only post from your group as this is supposed to be a discussion to better the community, and it isn't really a discussion if you communicate once and no further.

Thank you for the response, and I hope you explain further.
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
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Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

15-Jun-2019 23:05:48 - Last edited on 15-Jun-2019 23:21:11 by HC Tervuren

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RiDaku said:
This whole thread is just "Let's talk our shit and shake hands about it." The only factual thing that any of you (stu, vekon, tervuren, etc) has posted ...


Can you prove that? I keep being called a liar but any evidence (if you can call it that) provided is a bunch of accusations and assumptions that I already responded to from your's and Void's collaborative response. To my knowledge, I've lied about nothing.

It'd serve me no justice to lie about anything relative to this, because I'm trying to prevent my entire group from disappearing. Lying would make that worse and would be illogical.

Casindra Rin said:
Very interesting take on everything going on. Frankly, it sounds like a lot of bad blood and old grudges being brought up ..


Exactly right, Casindra! And that's the big thing: all of this is old dirt dug up from years past, most of it irrelevant unless in regards to the past few months. What I'm seeing is that all of these old grudges and accusations are being used as excuses to validate the current rule-breaking .. like I've recapitulated time and time again, there isn't an excuse for this. At its core, this is all rule-breaking and it shows the incredible lack of integrity with the aggressors.

RiDaku said:
When Lor laid out the bans on IP's ..

I actually know exactly who (a few individuals, not Arens) that did this and the IP (of one individual) was a masked dynamic behind two VPNs. The other two people just made split wiki accounts. In fact, Lor only assumed who did the crime and banned people off of assumption, funny enough.

Regardless, this is all irrelevant to the fact you guys have broken rules and powerplayed an entire group. Can we get back on topic to solve this problem please? Thank you for your replies either way.
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
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Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

16-Jun-2019 13:16:50 - Last edited on 16-Jun-2019 13:20:15 by HC Tervuren

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Oxtus said:
I'd like to ask that if people have disagreements about Kandarin canon, they don't deliberately steamroll the RP of others in Misthalin that aren't involved with the actions of Pyro/Ridaku/Void elsewhere. It's not fair as we have had no part in the Kandarin mess, nor would many of us condone it.


Tbh it's really not fair for anyone outside of their groups. It's not really fair for people inside their groups as well, because if they try to interact with anyone on our end, well .. split canon.

It'd be cool if we could, you know, take a few steps back to about a week and a half back and just kind of reset there and forget about the whole split canon thing. I'd be totally alright with that, but I'm doubtful anyone else on the other end would share similar ideas.
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
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Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

16-Jun-2019 20:46:35

HC Tervuren

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CrocoNuts said:
Glad to see this posted in such a civil manner. Seems like a thread worth making a good contribution to no matter what your stance on this whole Ardougne thing is. I'll respond to the questions asked later but good going making an actual thread instead of sporadically making me watch like 2-3 threads at the time as I try to keep up with the debate.


I'm unsure if you've posted your reply yet (not that I recall thus far) but if you still want do I'd love to hear it. I've been patiently waiting for any suggestions you might have to offer.
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
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Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

17-Jun-2019 13:31:42

HC Tervuren

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Posting here from another thread for transparency. Hopefully it encourages further discussion, including Pyro here:

Lord Pyro I said:
1. I've was in Kandarin for several months and have seen in person the general level of activity. There was I admit some RP, in so much as I personally set up RP events and invited non kandarin rpers to populate them.


To be fair Pyro, I only recall you ever having joined one roleplay over that period of time and it was a Khazard tourney. In which you fought Salwamander, got fed-up with her roleplay combat style and left in a hurry claiming your character was just dead. Anything otherwise was just Discord conversation. Regardless ..

Lord Pyro I said:
2. Rule breaking is the issue, I accept that. One that we are resolving by removing you and your group from any position that gives you the oppotunity to continue doing so as you have done for the past... Well let's just say 5 years minimum?


Again, I do not understand where the accusation spins from. I have repeatedly asked for clarity that is not enveloped by assumption and instead cold-hard facts. In any case, if five years of "rule-breaking" is true, the solution is not to rule-break in response. The solution is discussing an alternative that works for all parties involved, not one or none; please, I welcome you to do so below.

Lord Pyro I said:
3. You have not yet come close to admitting to your flaws on this server and frankly I personally will never accept you as a roleplayer until that happens.


I'm not sure what flaws I haven't admitted to that I should admit to. Other than Discord shenanigans unrelated (which I have already covered several times over the months), there's nothing to admit to. If you think otherwise, please inform me of what else I should admit to so that we can proceed with a discussion about our groups rather than me as an individual.
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
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Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

17-Jun-2019 14:01:13

HC Tervuren

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Casindra Rin said:
HC Tervuren said:
How is this relevant to the discussion?


Though it's not relevant to this particular point about split canon, I think it's important enough to it contextually to bring up since he's involved.

That's not cool to defame someone like that.


I'm just wondering the relevance start-to-end of that piece from both sides. It's not relevant at all, I think. Accusations or the replies.

CrocoNuts said:
I simply must withhold for now to get very oppiniated about this. It’s a delicate subject and I want to take my time.


No worries, and I appreciate you taking the time to reply along with withholding anything further. I'd prefer a response well-thought rather than one just said on the spot.
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
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Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

17-Jun-2019 14:40:28

HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

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Lord Pyro I said:


1. I like how the fact that I did not specify the exact time period led you to pick a time period ..


Yeah, that's why I said "I only recall", meaning that's the only time I ever noticed you RPing in our group.

Lord Pyro I said:
Also I heard that the tourny in question didn't go very far in the end but still further than the one you tried to run in Ardy ..


You're right. And I don't much understand the relevance nor how it relates to activity. People just didn't like the idea of a joust, nothing but.



Lord Pyro I said:
2. Yeah we're accepting that one as self evident, as in we are not going to waste our time explaining this.


Why is this the answer every time? I don't understand and am asking for clarification. Every time I am told that it's a waste of your time. It's not a "delay tactic". What am I delaying? I don't understand.

Lord Pyro I said:
As to our "rule breaking", claiming over an inactive pok is not rule breaking, refusing to acknowledge rule breakers is not rule breaking.


But we're not inactive. "Claiming over" is powerplaying, plain and simple.

Lord Pyro I said:
If that has really has been "covered" as you claim, why haven't I received an apology for what you did to my discord server?


What do you mean when you say "what you did"? I didn't do anything to your Discord other than post images in an entry channel without any roles. Does that even demand an apology? And is it legitimately important to the health of the entire community? I feel like we're pulling for straws here.

I'm not demanding an apology from you for banning me from all your Discords without reason prior to that happening. Why? Because I don't care and it's irrelevant to a community issue on RuneScape.
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
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Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

17-Jun-2019 18:29:28 - Last edited on 17-Jun-2019 18:31:36 by HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

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Kandarin Stu said:
Storm has tried to make multiple tournaments, and while as you pointed out some of these werent successful - they were open to the whole server and nobody came, not just Kandarin.


That's a good point you mention. Nobody came, including Pyro who I directly invited on his own Misthalin thread.

It's simply an issue that either nobody liked the idea of a joust, or nobody wanted to come because everyone was inactive or busy.
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
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Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

17-Jun-2019 20:14:17

HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

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I'm not sure what to think at this point.

Many people are derailing and slipping into conversation about issues years old, attacking personal problems and claiming they are a legitimate issue or providing factless, baseless "trust me I'm right" responses to real accusations worth providing thought to.

I asked for civility and was given a few pages of that, although (as expected) the community here responded otherwise with direct accusations at people's character and have pulled poor history of individuals into the light as a form of excuse to justify their current actions against them.

No "excuse" exists for role-breaking in an RP community.

No legitimate solutions have been posted here in the last 140 pages of lengthy posts, and as said are mostly accusations (truthful or otherwise) and people bickering about which side is right or wrong. I have my opinions on that and others have their's, but it does not cover the issue here.

We need a solution.

Do we, Kandarin from the past 10+ years accept being overwritten and take our group into "private"? Do we create our own canon and, therefore, RP over the other split canon? That's what we're looking at to have a fulfilled POK when overwritten. I imagine it would not bode well with Pyro, Void or Ridaku.

We don't have the members to run three POKs. Neither, I would imagine, do Pyro, Void and Ridaku. For that reason you might see them RPing characters in each POK, and that's not meant to be insulting. It's to show how small the community is and how this is damaging it all.

We, as Kandarin, have the same years-long interest to continue and the people to support it. Does Void? I don't know, but what I do know is that us going "private" won't help anything on their end. They won't acknowledge us for various reasons, true or not that they have presented.
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
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Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

18-Jun-2019 09:49:59 - Last edited on 18-Jun-2019 10:11:38 by HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

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It sounds to me like every single bit of this stems from years-long buildup of hatred between one another. It's honestly really sad. I wish I could get along with everyone equally. I remember when Ridaku and I were pretty decent friends years ago around 2013-2015, and nothing was an issue between us. I also remember a lot of times in the past years Pyro and I getting along.

We also bickered, but I don't ever remember anything being too startling. For Void, I honestly don't recall who they are due to name changes throughout the years, but given I don't really seem to know them I figure we've never hated eachother. I would hope we've gotten along.

With all this in mind, I doubt the counter-solution to the one already mentioned would work: Voiding the split canon Kandarin and asking Void to hand back the controls. Regardless, it is what caused this problem to begin with, and reverting to how things were two weeks ago would be the best options for everyone involved.

I'd like to go a step further even though I don't really know how well it'd work in the community here and ask that everyone forgive the opposing party for issues in the past. We're all, I suspect, adults now; we've all (just about) been in this community since W42 existed as W31, way back in the day. We were little kids back then, immature and highly toxic when we opposed one another. Every single one of us has grown from then.

So has our problems with one another, and so has our knowledge of one another expanded. Everyone knows eachother pretty well, some of us having even met IRL over the years, something we never really expected to happen when we first went in character on W42. Hell, some people even met and have gotten married or had kids from meeting in this community.

That's pretty awesome to think about, with Quick Chat "This is not a dating site." echoing in the background. :P
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
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Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

18-Jun-2019 09:50:06 - Last edited on 18-Jun-2019 10:11:21 by HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

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I digress, but I do think a sort of "I forgive you" kinda thing -- while cliche and very cheesy -- could kind of work and help us to reset to a week or so ago and acknowledge one another in the POK realm and, hopefully, work together and have an awesome community.

Disregarding all previous problems we've had would surely help to bring a toxic community together. Sure, people will still have their problems and I'm sure things won't last forever, but it is certainly a step (and probably the only possible one) in the right direction. Like I said, the community tends to take two steps forwards and ten steps back.

I'd like to take two steps forwards and place a barrier behind us to prevent us taking those ten steps back. Maybe this solution is the right one. But certainly, it can't be the wrong one. It eliminates nobody, reverting back two weeks and handling the issue entirely OOC.

And hopefully we can all agree that it's a good idea worth working on.

Please proceed to discuss this and not continue bickering with previous posts. Thanks!
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
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Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

18-Jun-2019 10:00:46 - Last edited on 18-Jun-2019 10:11:10 by HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

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RiDaku said:
Please don't invoke the fact that we were once on neutral terms as some sort of reach-across-the-aisle thing. There are certain actions that have been taken that just can't be taken back or forgiven.


Why? I was hoping it'd put light on the fact that it'd work. You may not be able to forgive me but I'm willing to forgive the nasty things you've said about me behind my back. Frankly, I don't care what's said. I just want a functioning community.

RiDaku said:
I will post it all if I have to.


Feel free, but it will only derail this discussion again. We all know what is contained in the history of the community. I'm offering to wipe that slate clean instead of wiping the in character slate clean, because this is an OOC problem -- not IC. I hope that's a viable option for you.

RiDaku said:
It's really painful and honestly cringy to see the same people who just a month ago were spreading peoples' personal information or posting shock images in servers now talking about how sad and unfortunate it is to see everybody hating and rejecting each other.


Like I said a month ago, these things were all posted publicly online by you. That's not a reason of justification, but I'm saying that because you should expect it if you post something online. It's the internet, in all fairness. That's also not a justification for my or anyone else's actions. Forgive and forget, hopefully.


RiDaku said:
.. but this "canon catastrophe" (which, again, is only a catastrophe to the ones being overwritten.


I disagree. It's a catastrophe for you, me, and the forum mods to deal with. You have your idea of dealing with it, here's mine and the forum mods have to sit overhead mulling through posts figuring out if they're okay to leave.

Cont. Pg 15
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
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Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

18-Jun-2019 10:38:51 - Last edited on 18-Jun-2019 10:40:32 by HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

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RiDaku said:
You're absolving yourselves of the awful things you've done to other people without the involvement of the people you did it to, and you're somehow shocked that they're angry about it.


That's very much a mirror statement. It's the same on both sides, so accusing our end only without acknowledging it on your's isn't really fair play.

RiDaku said:
This "the past is in the past" thing doesn't work. Reaaaaaaally doesn't work. All it is is a really poor attempt at nullifying the things that have been done or said by the offending party that resulted in them being replaced.


In retrospect on either side, again, it's the same on both sides. You're the offending party on our side, we're the offending party on your's. Everyone has said nasty things OOC. Forgive and forget to nullify it and move on. I'd like to try that and see how well it works before disregarding it. Because right now you're attempting to slice off a piece of the community because we (and I don't mean this in an insulting way) hurt your feelings.

You've done things likewise, and I'd post the screenshots if it didn't mean it'd totally derail what I'm trying to do here. It's really sad that we even have to take screenshots of childish immaturity tossed at one another on Discord. Moving past that and growing from it would be beneficial, don't you think?
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
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Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

18-Jun-2019 10:40:01 - Last edited on 18-Jun-2019 10:44:48 by HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

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RiDaku said:
Well, there you go. You just openly admitted to posting information about me.


What do you mean? I posted your Twitter gaming account months ago. How is that information about you? I don't know if you're talking about someone else or not, but I've not doxed you. I don't know anything about you beyond pictures you posted there.

I never said I defended it anyhow, and quite the contrary; every post I've made here is against that.

Also, should I not admit that? Pyro has been pointing out how we haven't (apparently) admitted our own faults for about eight pages now. I admit a potential fault and you shove this entire thread beneath the rug.

Likewise, shouldn't you admit faults on your end? I'm not even asking you to. I'd very much like to move beyond it so that we can discuss fixing the community.
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
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Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

18-Jun-2019 10:47:48 - Last edited on 18-Jun-2019 10:50:15 by HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

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Tophurious said:
At this point trying to reason with Ridaku is pointless. It's clear he has no desire to fix the RP community's problems and that's entirely his fault. What a shit show this thread turned in to and what a shame that is.


I don't know why. I'd like for him to be reasonable but it's fairly clear he is offended by something I've done, or possibly someone else because I don't know what he means by doxing. I've never doxed him. I don't know where he lives, what he does IRL or anything.

Anyway, I'd like to just about ignore that entire spiel if possible. It's kind of derailing.

Ridaku: If you'd like to talk to me privately, you have my Discord or can message me in-game.

Otherwise, let's please move past that and try to fix other problems.
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
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Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

18-Jun-2019 14:13:32

HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

Posts: 182Iron Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Edit: If you were hyperlinked from page 1, read the below posts. I have copied the post from page 14 here. Thank you!


For the third time, I'd like to repeat focusing on the solution piece I posted on page 14.
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
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Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

18-Jun-2019 17:42:52 - Last edited on 18-Jun-2019 18:06:55 by HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

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Repeating this from Pg 14 to keep it relevant.

HC Tervuren said:
I'm not sure what to think at this point.

Many people are derailing and slipping into conversation about issues years old, attacking personal problems and claiming they are a legitimate issue or providing factless, baseless "trust me I'm right" responses to real accusations worth providing thought to.

I asked for civility and was given a few pages of that, although (as expected) the community here responded otherwise with direct accusations at people's character and have pulled poor history of individuals into the light as a form of excuse to justify their current actions against them.

No "excuse" exists for role-breaking in an RP community.

No legitimate solutions have been posted here in the last 140 pages of lengthy posts, and as said are mostly accusations (truthful or otherwise) and people bickering about which side is right or wrong. I have my opinions on that and others have their's, but it does not cover the issue here.

We need a solution.

Do we, Kandarin from the past 10+ years accept being overwritten and take our group into "private"? Do we create our own canon and, therefore, RP over the other split canon? That's what we're looking at to have a fulfilled POK when overwritten. I imagine it wouldn'tbode well with Pyro, Void or Ridaku.

We don't have the members to run three POKs. Neither I would imagine do Pyro, Void and Ridaku. For that reason you might see them RPing characters in each POK, and that's not meant to be insulting. It's to show how small the community is and how this is damaging it all.

We, as Kandarin, have the same years-long interest to continue and the people to support it. Does Void? I don't know, but what I do know is that us going "private" won't help anything on their end. They won't acknowledge us for various reasons, true or not that they've presented.
Kristian
|
Kandarin
|
Vekon
|
Tervurens
|
I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

18-Jun-2019 17:57:15 - Last edited on 18-Jun-2019 18:18:10 by HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

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HC Tervuren said:
It sounds to me like every single bit of this stems from years-long buildup of hatred between one another. It's honestly really sad. I wish I could get along with everyone equally. I remember when Ridaku and I were pretty decent friends years ago around 2013-2015, and nothing was an issue between us. I also remember a lot of times in the past years Pyro and I getting along.

We also bickered, but I don't ever remember anything being too startling. For Void, I honestly don't recall who they are due to name changes throughout the years, but given I don't really seem to know them I figure we've never hated eachother. I would hope we've gotten along.

With all this in mind, I doubt the counter-solution to the one already mentioned would work: Voiding the split canon Kandarin and asking Void to hand back the controls. Regardless, it is what caused this problem to begin with, and reverting to how things were two weeks ago would be the best options for everyone involved.

I'd like to go a step further even though I don't really know how well it'd work in the community here and ask that everyone forgive the opposing party for issues in the past. We're all, I suspect, adults now; we've all (just about) been in this community since W42 existed as W31, way back in the day. We were little kids back then, immature and highly toxic when we opposed one another. Every single one of us has grown from then.

So has our problems with one another, and so has our knowledge of one another expanded. Everyone knows eachother pretty well, some of us having even met IRL over the years, something we never really expected to happen when we first went in character on W42. Hell, some people even met and have gotten married or had kids from meeting in this community.

That's pretty awesome to think about, with Quick Chat "This is not a dating site." echoing in the background. :P
Kristian
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Kandarin
|
Vekon
|
Tervurens
|
I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

18-Jun-2019 17:57:19 - Last edited on 18-Jun-2019 17:59:22 by HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

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HC Tervuren said:
I digress, but I do think a sort of "I forgive you" kinda thing -- while cliche and very cheesy -- could kind of work and help us to reset to a week or so ago and acknowledge one another in the POK realm and, hopefully, work together and have an awesome community.

Disregarding all previous problems we've had would surely help to bring a toxic community together. Sure, people will still have their problems and I'm sure things won't last forever, but it is certainly a step (and probably the only possible one) in the right direction. Like I said, the community tends to take two steps forwards and ten steps back.

I'd like to take two steps forwards and place a barrier behind us to prevent us taking those ten steps back. Maybe this solution is the right one. But certainly, it can't be the wrong one. It eliminates nobody, reverting back two weeks and handling the issue entirely OOC.

And hopefully we can all agree that it's a good idea worth working on.

Please proceed to discuss this and not continue bickering with previous posts. Thanks!


@Vekon, I totally agree with what you wrote above. I'd like to stop focusing on bickering about issues past. It'd help a great amount.

Updated: A hyperlink will be provided to this page from the first page of the thread. To those using the hyperlink, please read the page here. Thank you!
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
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Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

18-Jun-2019 17:57:24 - Last edited on 18-Jun-2019 18:01:47 by HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

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Nathmatics posted this on another thread just now, and I find it very relevant to the above.

Nathmatics said:
In my head, I begin to wonder "Why can't we all just be friends?". It would honestly seem that any of the grudges that are being held are potentially sort of... for lack of a better description, puerile. If just being friends is too much to ask, at least be civil and be able to discuss with each other.

If we all could just step up to the plate, agree to actually be reasonable and compromise, we'd all benefit, from the small man to the big wigs.

I would like to encourage everyone to admit to maybe just one thing they've done that could be considered wrong or negatively impacting, just to demonstrate we're not all perfect. I would respect people more for their admissions, rather than laugh and judge them, and I hope you'll do the same for me.

For instance, I often used to (and occasionally still) will get bored of plots, and will completely turn off from them, essentially just letting myself get pulled through without putting much effort into it, generally detracting from the overall enjoyment and quality for myself and others. It's something I'm working on and generally think I'm getting rid of this bad habit.

I'd also like to theorize just one last thing, and that's maybe the reason all this drama is still ongoing is perhaps due to certain parties somehow enjoying the conflict that is made, whether this be at the expense of others or not. If this is true, I'd be disappointed extremely, because I can guarantee the vast majority of 42 does not enjoy it. We can here to roleplay, not bicker and act like we're immature high schoolers.
Kristian
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Kandarin
|
Vekon
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Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

18-Jun-2019 17:57:38 - Last edited on 18-Jun-2019 17:58:18 by HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

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Vekon said:
If he's willing to cooperate, I would be more than happy to talk to Kandarin's other leaders about having his rebellion idea brought to light. As I posted on his thread originally, I would personally be more than happy to play ball. He's made all of these write ups about the build-up and unrest leading to the rebellion that were awesome to read, but none of it actually happened in RP. I would help him fix that.


This sounds awesome and very fun. I'd like for that to happen if an agreement can be reached.
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
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Tervurens
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Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

18-Jun-2019 18:07:57

HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

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Oxtus said:
Most people in Misthalin don't want to see a split canon. At the same time, the domineering attitude that Vekon invasions pose to local RP has brought about a fair amount of fear, fear which gives legitimacy to the primary argument made by Pyro and Ridaku.


What argument? If the fear is an IC invasion, then this just really proves that all this OOC powerplay nonsense is a means to prevent us from attacking you IC. Which we have absolutely zero interest in doing IC.
Kristian
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Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

19-Jun-2019 04:14:42

HC Tervuren

HC Tervuren

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Lord Pyro I said:
So no thank you, our decision has been made. We don't have to roleplay with you if we don't want to.


If this is the same response we will receive time and time again from you and the other two, then I suppose we're at a stalemate where the community remains fractured because three individuals so selfish would prefer speaking the minds of others despite repeatedly seeing that people in your own groups do not think the same as you.

If that is the case as I've seen your same response multiple times, then I'll be closing this thread and we will continue with the split-canon situation. Unfortunately, there is no work-around.

Effectively, from here on you have in all technicality destroyed POK-POK role-play with this situation unless it should arise inside of the split canons. Not only this, but you have effectively sliced in half the possibility of functional freelance role-play in this community as, repeatedly, you have stated that our group is in essence ignored.

That is unacceptable, but unfortunately nothing else can be done as determined here.

It is sad to see literal community leads and group leads alike coming together to destroy their own community so that they can essentially banish and execute people they, personally, dislike. It is out of character for people to act in such a way, and it is abysmal to reach this conclusion.

But this seems to be the unmoving status quo, and the only people willing to make change are those beneath you in your groups (to which you have banned a few for their opinions).

I hope someday your minds change. I and everyone else would be more than happy to welcome you back into our groups despite the turmoil caused the past week or two, but right now it seems your minds are settled elsewhere.
Kristian
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Kandarin
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Vekon
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Tervurens
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I love canines!


Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

19-Jun-2019 14:22:10 - Last edited on 19-Jun-2019 14:30:30 by HC Tervuren

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