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Unfinished Business-Expansions

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Ian Adler
Jan Member 2007

Ian Adler

Posts: 407Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Jagex, over a year ago (July 7th to be exact) and as part of your Unfinished Business | Release Strategy Update announcement, you said:
"Expansions take up a huge amount of dev time, leading to a sparse release schedule and less player happiness. It's clear that regular updates is something that makes RuneScape RuneScape. The game feels less alive without them.For this reason, we are suspending development on all future expansions. We might release expansion-sized updates like Elf City in the future, but we won't be committing to a sequence of them, and there will be no additional expansion this year."

This was in reaction to the amount of time it took to create Menaphos because you, per your own words, "neglected other updates as a result." However, I think you have fallen into the same trap except with Slayer Bosses/Dungeons:
The Lost Grove
, the
Temple of Aminishi
, and now the
Dragonkin Laboratory
- all are expansions in that you dedicated much time and effort creating entirely new areas, only these are combat restrictive.

Therefore, since you justifiably cannot help but create game areas, I suggest that you take a leaf out of Old School RuneScape's book and gradually add new areas to the existing game much like when you first began developing the Members Areas way back when. I look at OSR's World Map and see places like Zul-Andra in southern Isafdar, the long-awaited Fossil Island, the abandoned Dragonkin fortress Ungael in the Lunar Sea, the Myths' Guild south of the Feldip Hills, Slepe in far eastern Morytania, and of course the entirely new continent of Zeah.

Old School RuneScape is called such not only because the graphics are archaic, but because the game is developed in the same manner as of old too. I thus propose the main game return to that method of development as well: the slow growth of the world with a Quest or two for each new area.
Saradominist
World Guardian

My first loyalty is to protecting Gielinor.
My second is to the founder of the Temple Knights and patron of the Myreque.

19-Aug-2018 17:49:58

Dilbert2001
Jun Gold Premier Club Member 2006

Dilbert2001

Posts: 7,778Rune Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Temple of Aminishi and Dragonkin Laboratory are not expansions or even new areas. They are instances and I doubt they took too much time to make such instance maps given Jagex has already experienced with years of instance mapping mechanism in Dungeoneering and such. They should already have such tools to make new instance maps and mobs on the fly.

You may call The Lost Grove an "expansion" but it is just a very small one comparing to The Arc and Menaphos. There aren't really many things added to it other than a few new mobs and a mini game which is also not combat related.

19-Aug-2018 18:58:44 - Last edited on 19-Aug-2018 19:03:35 by Dilbert2001

Blackwing
Nov Member 2012

Blackwing

Posts: 38,655Sapphire Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Ian Adler said:
Jagex, over a year ago (July 7th to be exact) and as part of your Unfinished Business | Release Strategy Update announcement, you said:
"Expansions take up a huge amount of dev time, leading to a sparse release schedule and less player happiness. It's clear that regular updates is something that makes RuneScape RuneScape. The game feels less alive without them.For this reason, we are suspending development on all future expansions. We might release expansion-sized updates like Elf City in the future, but we won't be committing to a sequence of them, and there will be no additional expansion this year."

Heh, funny how they would talk about not making a sequence of expansions, only to go ahead and do it anyway with the elite dungeons; they seem to be very much pushing for a third one as well, while patch weeks are so common that people get bored waiting for it.

Anyhow, even if we ignored the whole unfinished business issue, I think RS3 suffers from another issue when it comes to these types of expansions: immersion. Lost grove in particular was a pretty (but also obnoxious with all the trees blocking your view) new area to be sure, but it just doesn't feel like it belongs to Runescape. The elite dungeons were better in that regard, but could still have been more than just instances hidden somewhere far off.

They did say at some point that they don't like developing something that already exists in the other game, which is understandable to a degree, but really, they should finish the existing areas before adding something new. It'd also be interesting to then compare that content to the other game. > )
The Runescape Witcher
|| "Why does he have two swords? Does he lose them often?"

19-Aug-2018 19:49:17

Ian Adler
Jan Member 2007

Ian Adler

Posts: 407Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Tenebri said:
jagex can never win with people can they


Nonsense. I understand perfectly well, and even wrote not long ago in a separate Forums post, that I understand perfectly well that much of their current time and effort is rightfully dedicated to the Mining & Smithing (and Banking) Rework. In this I am merely saying that if they feel compelled to create new areas then they should create other than Slayer-themed places.

Dilbert2001 said:
Temple of Aminishi and Dragonkin Laboratory are not expansions or even new areas. They are instances and I doubt they took too much time to make such instance maps given Jagex has already experienced with years of instance mapping mechanism in Dungeoneering and such. They should already have such tools to make new instance maps and mobs on the fly.

You may call The Lost Grove an "expansion" but it is just a very small one comparing to The Arc and Menaphos. There aren't really many things added to it other than a few new mobs and a mini game which is also not combat related.


Beyond doubt, and I am not talking about creating another The Arc or Menaphos. Rather, say, Zul-Andra and/or the Myths Guild - for Jagex could draw heavily upon what OSR has already done insofar as story and NPC dialogue goes.
Saradominist
World Guardian

My first loyalty is to protecting Gielinor.
My second is to the founder of the Temple Knights and patron of the Myreque.

19-Aug-2018 22:21:00

Sapunjidan

Sapunjidan

Posts: 210Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Runescape is a game created with passion and thats why it WAS great. Jagex is a company with shtty developers and with no interest in making this game what it used to be, they seek only to make profit. Great pieces of content created back then were ruined by the new developers. Id rather have things unfinished than ruined-the best example is the vampyre arc, the conclusion of all those myreque quests was nothing but an anticlimatic rushed disappointment.

19-Aug-2018 23:44:46

juliorain
May Member 2018

juliorain

Posts: 3,971Adamant Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
I have to agree that I feel a little shorted with the Lost Grove. It's just another convienently placed island, rather than something like a new continent. I don't know how OSRS managed to actually create two new continents within Gielinor yet the best the dev team can do are new islands.

Not exactly sure what EDs have to do with it. People here want more PvM, OSRS wants more story content. PvM is cheaper theoretically, anyway,just make a boss and an instanced dungeon rather than an immersive large area of the map you can focus on the details of a well-designed dungeon, even if it feels tacked on and not necessarily fits with the world around it.

20-Aug-2018 00:08:20

Ian Adler
Jan Member 2007

Ian Adler

Posts: 407Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
juliorain said:
I have to agree that I feel a little shorted with the Lost Grove. It's just another convienently placed island, rather than something like a new continent. I don't know how OSRS managed to actually create two new continents within Gielinor yet the best the dev team can do are new islands.

Not exactly sure what EDs have to do with it. People here want more PvM, OSRS wants more story content. PvM is cheaper theoretically, anyway,just make a boss and an instanced dungeon rather than an immersive large area of the map you can focus on the details of a well-designed dungeon, even if it feels tacked on and not necessarily fits with the world around it.


To be fair, we did get the Elf City, Menaphos, The Arc, Darkmeyer, Freneskae, and Tarddiad. It is a return to those days that I seek and, like you, they could have done SO MUCH MORE with the Lost Grove regarding its connection to the Guardians of Guthix.

As to the EDs, they are news areas that could have been something other than EDs and focused on story content rather than PvM. Talking of which, since when do people here want more PvM (as opposed to story-content)? For years people have been complaining about the lack of new Quests, expressing a deep nostalgia for the old days of exploration.
Saradominist
World Guardian

My first loyalty is to protecting Gielinor.
My second is to the founder of the Temple Knights and patron of the Myreque.

20-Aug-2018 04:07:49

Tagakhlo
Sep Member 2014

Tagakhlo

Posts: 948Gold Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Ian Adler said:
This was in reaction to the amount of time it took to create Menaphos because you, per your own words, "neglected other updates as a result." However, I think you have fallen into the same trap except with Slayer Bosses/Dungeons:
The Lost Grove
, the
Temple of Aminishi
, and now the
Dragonkin Laboratory
- all are expansions in that you dedicated much time and effort creating entirely new areas, only these are combat restrictive.


Well, despite The Lost Grove, the Temple of Aminishi, and now the Dragonkin Laboratory, we still did get a very nice clan rework. Yes, people are still waiting for the Mining and Smithing rework, and some additional features for the bank, although we did have a bank update.

But I'm not hearing complaints about those things much. Instead, I heard howls of disappointment that the Dragonkin Laboratory was delayed. So the players do want visible additions to the game, not just tweaks to make the existing game work better.

Menaphos didn't get much love because it was a valuable addition to the game - for players who were still in a relatively early phase of developing their skills. Except for the Slayer dungeon, it was just another comp cape requirement for the high-level players. Jagex has to consider all players, and it has to attract new players, and some people forget that when they're complaining.

20-Aug-2018 05:25:09

Ian Adler
Jan Member 2007

Ian Adler

Posts: 407Silver Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Tagakhlo said:
Ian Adler said:
This was in reaction to the amount of time it took to create Menaphos because you, per your own words, "neglected other updates as a result." However, I think you have fallen into the same trap except with Slayer Bosses/Dungeons:
The Lost Grove
, the
Temple of Aminishi
, and now the
Dragonkin Laboratory
- all are expansions in that you dedicated much time and effort creating entirely new areas, only these are combat restrictive.


Well, despite The Lost Grove, the Temple of Aminishi, and now the Dragonkin Laboratory, we still did get a very nice clan rework. Yes, people are still waiting for the Mining and Smithing rework, and some additional features for the bank, although we did have a bank update.

But I'm not hearing complaints about those things much. Instead, I heard howls of disappointment that the Dragonkin Laboratory was delayed. So the players do want visible additions to the game, not just tweaks to make the existing game work better.

Menaphos didn't get much love because it was a valuable addition to the game - for players who were still in a relatively early phase of developing their skills. Except for the Slayer dungeon, it was just another comp cape requirement for the high-level players. Jagex has to consider all players, and it has to attract new players, and some people forget that when they're complaining.


Menaphos was a valuable addition to the game for story reasons too, as many Quests came along with it - making it above and beyond what good expansion should be based on the standards those self-same complaining players demanded after first The Arc and then the Elf City.
Saradominist
World Guardian

My first loyalty is to protecting Gielinor.
My second is to the founder of the Temple Knights and patron of the Myreque.

20-Aug-2018 13:54:39

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