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Comp cape without reaper fix

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Daibhi

Daibhi

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Joxxy said:
they don't need to change the stats. they just need to get rid of the boss kill requirement. some people aren't skilled enough to kill the hardest bosses in the game, why are they excluded simply because they cannot do something. it gives the person that wants to get the comp cape a good reason to stop playing the game simply due to the fact that it's impossible because of 1 thing on the required list.


Nothing does need to be changed other than the boss/reaper reqs.

Honestly I can't see why the those particular reqs. being removed from the comp cape is such an issue, if this topic is just going to revolve around semantics then rename it to something that doesn't sound like it requires "completion of everything" and have the trimmed comp be the true "comp cape".

In fact, following that same logic the comp cape isn't a "completionist" cape even with those reqs. because it doesn't have the further reqs. which the trimmed comp does thus doesn't require completion of everything in the game.

I can even use myself as an example of how much of a barrier those two particular boss reqs. are, I have a TBI (more specifically frontal lobe cortex brain damage) and I can tell you now calling it a handicap when under pressure and/or multi tasking is selling it short:

https://www.headway.org.uk/about-brain-injury/individuals/effects-of-brain-injury/

What would probably be more relevant to playing this game:

https://www.headway.org.uk/about-brain-injury/individuals/effects-of-brain-injury/cognitive-effects/

https://www.headway.org.uk/about-brain-injury/individuals/effects-of-brain-injury/executive-dysfunction/

I have no issue with the other reqs. I'll gladly eventually do every single one of them but those two boss reqs., quite literally, make it impossible for me.

All Jagex needs to do is compensate players who got them before changing that, give them exp or coins.. I don't know - something.

28-Dec-2018 20:16:31

Daibhi

Daibhi

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Aqua Star said:
and the music req is tied into that


To work around that they could do what they've done after removing mobilising armies, where you pick up/interact a page or letter (not sure haven't done it yet) and that unlocks all the music tracks associated with the minigame.

Another thing they've already done, I believe, is how talking to the face in the rock or whatever it is for Vorago and simply tie unlocking respective tracks to something like that.

Queenvalerie said:

I am trimmed and have been for 1 year, now they want to start messing with the Comp Cape req they better be listening/reading and taking in every ones opinion and NOT just the elite's!

This rework on the cape will determine if I stay any longer with EOC or the game itself. I am sooo tired of all these boss req/group boss on the cape and very little was needed when new skilling updates came out! (Menaphos example!)

They should make a combatants cape like comp for those elitists that prefer to solak all day.


As you've said the rework will dictate whether or not you stay around, I can say the same for myself but due to the process of getting the cape to begin with in the first place; I have nothing more left to do playing normally other than 17 more quests and that's it, I could get 120 slayer, inv & dung but there's no point staying if after that I'll have absolutely nothing left to do.

I've been playing since RSC was the only version of the game so I've been here a long time. I have no issue with the grind etc. (I cut 121k willow logs for 99 woodcutting more than a decade ago) but boss/reaper reqs. is where it shoots me down for reasons I mentioned the other day.

I do think all Jagex needs to do is move the boss/reaper reqs. to trimmed comp and that's it done and dusted. But you mentioning a comp equivalent of a combatants cape sounds like a good idea as well - I'm not too sure how well it'd be accepted though.

29-Dec-2018 11:48:46

Daibhi

Daibhi

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Nex is Life said:
Marty I said:
I also agree with what Smasherley said above in this post but have people seriously forgotten max cape has combat stats too...yes not the best but still something ofcourse.

It changed overall from completing quests/minigame type things like mage arena and livid farm for comp to now extras of PvM content which I agree yes is fun but it finds a reason for others to bully.... there is some Pvmers who hate quests and lore but want to kill solak/telos 24/7 which there is nothing wrong with that, just need to find that balance to reward those.
Then neither of those groups deserve comp (only one of them is complaining btw).

Fact is you have to play every area of the game to get comp and thats how it should be.


Completionist means completionist, so following your logic the comp cape doesn't require you to play every area of the game thus it, again following your logic, technically speaking isn't a completionist cape as the trim comp requires further reqs which would cover the entirety of the game.

All they need to do is turn trimmed completionist into the "true comp cape" by moving boss/reaper reqs. to it and have comp cape be something that can preoccupy players who have nothing else to do in the game (it still requires effort even without them). The upside to this is it keeps existing players playing as it gives them something to do after maxing whereas once they hit that wall they'll quit and never come back.

Those who can do the boss/reaper reqs. get access to the trimmed comp and can reap the rewards from that; plus this seems to be more an egostical arguement than an actual game breaking one so the trimmed comp will satisfy such people due to being more difficult to obtain. Not to mention for the players who have already done them that means nothing really changes for them - until the next vanity project rears its head.

29-Dec-2018 17:29:59

Daibhi

Daibhi

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Nex is Life said:
Well following your logic, completionist doesn't mean everything so therefore we should just take requirements you don't like off.

IMO comp should be harder, but with more achievable sub-goals; max cape, taskmaster, qp cape are already there, I would like to see more, similar category-specific goals for PvM, minigames, achievements.

So for people who don't want to do a bit of everything those (along with non-comp content like MQC, pets, titles) are the goals and anyway I didn't say comp means every bit of content in every area. I said you have to play -an unspecified amount- in every area of the game to comp. Which you do.


There are no reqs. I don't "like" per se, but there are two in particular which are literally impossible for me due to issues that I have (I mentioned them 3 or 4 pages ago) which aren't as simple as "lol gitgud" to deal with and do not even utter the words that I have a defeatist mindset like you did in another comment to someone earlier - if I did I'd have killed myself years ago. But before I digress..

I don't actually disagree with you in that comp should have a layer of difficulty but that difficulty you're referring to should be on trimmed comp, not the standard comp. Just like I said to Jagex during whatever survey they asked about quests etc. difficulty =/= combat, there's what.. 682 tasks alone just for task master for regular comp? Nevermind the other reqs. minus boss/reaper. Moving those to trim would make comp more realistically achievable.

Standard comp could and can be something to keep existing goal orientated players playing after maxing. For those who want to go up and beyond that's when trimmed comp will come into play, it makes no sense to have reqs. that should have always been on trimmed be on the standard version. All that achieves is denies a big chunk of the playerbase access to further content AKA. something to do after maxing etc.

30-Dec-2018 14:46:30

Daibhi

Daibhi

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Nex is Life said:

Mod Breezy said things weren't being added "because of compers". The problem is people just expect to get comp instead of it being an exlusive cape for completing most of the game's content.

Part of that problem is comp being a bis cape, thus people want it for the reward, not because they want to be a completionist and then cry when an update rolls round and it's gone, whether thats Menaphos or Solak.


If that is where the issue lies, allow standard comp to be realistically achievable by moving reqs. that would make more sense to be on trimmed but still require effort on the players part to complete the reqs. to get standard comp that remained. Moving things about is not giving anyone the cape for free, it would still require a fair bit of effort on their part to do what would be required to get it.

In regards to the BIS, make trimmed comp BIS which means it will remain exclusive, to an extent, afterall it is the next one up, right? and make standard comp somewhat subpar in comparison stats wise. Thus those who put the effort in to get BIS gets BIS, if those who don't want to don't then they won't get it.

Personally I couldn't care less about the stats, it's more for something to do after maxing - otherwise the only option left is to quit and never return. Making standard comp more realistically achievable will keep long time players like myself around longer due to the nature of how it works when new content is added.

This will only work though if Jagex can figure out how to determine reasonable difficulty for the respective cape. Trimmed having the most difficulty, because that makes sense, and standard having less difficulty than trimmed, that does not mean it will be handing it over for free though.

31-Dec-2018 19:41:34

Daibhi

Daibhi

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Nex is Life said:
You're still asking to have it easy. Fortunately, Jagex are doing the opposite.

Their intention is to add more capes/goals before comp, while adding more requirements to comp
Tentative proposal for feedback and discussion:
- We add more capes which are more accessible than comp (but still harder than e.g. max cape) which have BIS stats and benefits (for example, "PVM cape" )
- Because comp is no longer held back by people who only want the BIS stats/benefits comp (and trim) are then free to have more requirements added, perhaps immediately or over time
- "More capes" includes both other categories of cape (e.g. quest cape, pvm cape, skilling/grinding cape, minigame cape, achievement cape) but also easier categories of the same cape (e.g. 50QP cape, 100QP cape, 200QP cape, etc) which can have lower stats
- Possibly add extra tiers of cape, e.g. comp, trim, true trim where "true" has "insane" reqs which are not achievable by most players
- Possibly move some cape utility (e.g. ava's) into its own reward (e.g. ava's just works if you have it unlocked) rather than having it all tied to specific capes


I'm not. You're making the same mistake Jagex does when it comes to quests where they think difficulty automatically means PVM or combat is needed - that isn't the case at all.

Yes, PVM/bossing adds a very specific layer of difficulty, that's undeniable but it doesn't need to be the ultimate decider in worthiness of owning a completionist cape. As it stands, the only thing that stops the majority is the bossing aspect which, in a way, makes it that ultimate decider.

What you listed (I assume from reddit?) actually sounds fine, if that is what they intend or are considering to do. Especially the tiered system, that's almost the perfect compromise for the entire community as it makes the base cape more accessible and would reward those who truely complete everything.

31-Dec-2018 22:02:05

Daibhi

Daibhi

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Nex is Life said:
You're asking for requirements to be "moved" meaning removed, thus devaluing comp.

PvM is needed, not from the difficulty it adds, but because you can't call yourself a completionist if you completely avoid some areas of the game. It is the only requirement that requires any amount of actual skill (heaven forbid), but that doesn't mean offer requirements are not difficult, the long list of requirements take thousands of hours which isn't easy, having that much patience isn't easy.

That info came from Mod Breezy, bear in mind it's a preliminary list, but I am fairly sure the core parts will become reality.


Moving reqs. that would make more sense to be on the more prestigious version of the cape, thus making it even more prestigious than it already is, due to having an element of difficulty which the majority ultimately end up having to pay a group to give them the kill anyway is not "devaluing" the cape. I'd argue paying for that in fact devalues the cape more than what I'm saying ever would.

You say that like 66 tasks (not including reaper/boss kills), one of which involves doing 682 tasks of varying things, another which involves doing 220 quests and unlocking all lunar spells is a walk in the park - all of that would still require a lot off time and effort even without those two reqs.

You can hardly call someone who has the standard "completionist" cape a completionist if we're really going to dance around the definition of this word. Someone who owns the standard "completionist" cape is not a completionist because they have still yet to finish the further reqs. for the trimmed completionist which ultimately is the "true" completionist cape.

That potential tiered idea, like I said, is the perfect compromise. Base comp can be pretty straightforward (ref. what I said above), trimmed can get slightly more difficult and then this "true trim" can have solak etc. and whatever else.

01-Jan-2019 00:23:54

Daibhi

Daibhi

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To reflect that the standard base comp cape can retain its basic features but have the stats be reduced, trimmed can stay as is (assuming it has the same stats as the standard version?) and then this "true trim" can be the best of the best if it's going to have these "insane reqs." that are designed to be impossible for almost everyone.

01-Jan-2019 00:35:54

Daibhi

Daibhi

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Nex is Life said:
scousy said:
Something that is "broken" is something that won't allow you to do something in game Ex: can't complete a quest or something that is glitched. Is reaper title being a requirement on comp cape a glitch?
It's broken because its toooo haaaard


If you ask me, it makes far more sense to have trimmed be the "too hard" cape to get as it is the next one up from the standard one and have standard comp be the one that most people (if they bother to go through the remaining reqs.) could get. It doesn't make any sense to have both versions have the same level of difficulty, those who already have standard comp will still have it and if they're the sort to want a challenge then work towards trimmed.

The result? After maxing, goal orientated people have something to keep them indefinitely preoccupied in the game given the nature of how both these capes work and those who want to go up and beyond the standard can aim for trimmed (it will also become the "true" comp due to this) - which is where the real difficulty should be. Thus, if done, this would keep more players coming back to the game who do have that sort of mindset instead of losing them forever; and their money.

Comments like yours are precisely why I say the reason this never goes anywhere when it's brought up is because it's dominated by elitism and ego. This rework has a lot of potential to please both sides of the table here but I also suspect one of the reasons why this gets such an uproar is because, if changes are made namely to reaper etc., those who charge players who can't do that will lose out on probably billions.

The capes aren't necessarily broken but the difficulty is all over the place - which is the issue, not that they're broken. Standard comp still requires a lot of time and effort, which it should, on the players part even if those two reqs. are moved to trimmed.

04-Jan-2019 11:45:11

Daibhi

Daibhi

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Smasherley said:

I totally agree, it does have the potential to please every side... But I know jagex, after over 12 years playing this game I know the majority will get the raw end of this deal and that the ex streamer mods that are improving comp were the problem in the first place. It was their improving of comp that created this in the first place.

Then we have this, this cba attitude to not add requirements to the cape post an update. to update achievements and fail to unify them with the capes. When this happens again because it will happen again, what then? they have to rework it again?

I dunno, I have no faith and trust in jagex. I think the issues infront of us are created by jagex themselves and think they wont update it to cater or their player base but the ex streamers trying to find ways to line the leech services community of hoardes of billions.


If that's the case then Jagex needs to recognize the benefit of keeping existing players already playing (and paying to play) the game further invested in the game after maxing due to how these capes work, which far outweighs the importance of pleasing these ex streamers ego's as it involves real money - not GP or their ego's.

I think, to avoid this happening again, Jagex needs to figure out a means of determining reasonable difficulty for the respective cape and never stray from it again when new content is added to the game. Anything that involves reaper, boss kills etc. should be on trim and things like I don't know.. reqs. that can only be done by a single player be on standard comp?

As for the stats issue they could have the respective cape reflect that. Standard comp can have, and in this hypothetical scenario should have, subpar stats to trimmed and the trimmed comp should have the best stats to reflect the difficulty in obtaining it while also rewarding those who do obtain it to set it apart from the standard comp.

05-Jan-2019 12:09:31

Daibhi

Daibhi

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Nex is Life said:
You say Jagex need to figure out a means of determining difficultly for respective capes... Then you say x requirement should be on trim because you don't like it?

Here is what Jagex might use to determine what belongs on what cape - this came from Mod Breezy
T1: participate in all content
T2: complete all content (unless it's ridiculous)
T3: complete all content (even if it's ridiculous)


No.... why do you keep assuming I'm complaining about how it works because I "dont want" to do things I "don't like"?

I've already explained to you on the other comp thread (and in fact linked information that explains it all clearly on a page in this one) the definitions of these words have very clear differences in my particular situation there are none I "don't like" but there are some I literally cannot do due to irrefutable health reasons; not the basic excuse of "I don't like this so I don't want to do it, remove it" you seem to always get caught up on.

If the majority have to pay a group just to get reaper done every time something's added to it that's enough evidence to show that it's too hard for the playerbase in general, thus should be on the more appropriate cape's reqs. (trimmed) to reflect that capes difficulty; which will then increase its prestige at the same time.

If by participation it is literally just participation (which means completion is not required; just the act of participating in any form - otherwise it's completion and not participation Ref. the whole dance we had around the literal definition of the word completionist but just change it to those words) that sounds like a reasonable compromise.

T2 and T3 also sound like a step in the right direction, so long as it rewards those players reasonably well for going up and beyond the standard. What T2 gets should be subpar to T3 though and like wise in regards to T2 compared to T1.

T3 can let Ramen be the sadist he is.

08-Jan-2019 19:40:26

Daibhi

Daibhi

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Nex is Life said:
Daibhi said:
If by participation it is literally just participation (which means completion is not required; just the act of participating in any form - otherwise it's completion and not participation Ref. the whole dance we had around the literal definition of the word completionist but just change it to those words) that sounds like a reasonable compromise.
No, don't take participation to literally mean participation prize else getting 10xp would qualify you for max


Ok maybe I worded that a bit too broadly, that wasn't what I meant. By participation I suppose I meant something along the lines of trying content but not necessarily completing it to the extent that uh.. is currently required by how the comp system works right now - does that make more sense?

If it worked like that, it could also act as a teaser which could potentially tempt existing players into exploring said content on a deeper level which would lead them up the ladder to T2 and T2 could do the same for whatever/however T3 would work? Although I'm not sure if T3 is meant to be "ridiculous" in comparison to T2.

08-Jan-2019 20:33:36 - Last edited on 08-Jan-2019 20:37:34 by Daibhi

Daibhi

Daibhi

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Nex is Life said:

Here is what Jagex might use to determine what belongs on what cape -this came from Mod Breezy
T1: participate in all content
T2: complete all content (unless it's ridiculous)
T3: complete all content (even if it's ridiculous)


Additionally, it was stated that arguments of "Remove Reaper because RS pvm is too hard" aren't constructive.


To add on to what I already said the other day now that I've sat on this since then. I do think this is making the situation more complicated than it needs to be as how the system works currently is fine - but the issue is that what determines which reqs. are assigned to what cape does seem to be confused, somewhat.

Honestly, I do think standard comp should revolve around reqs. that are typical things which are already on y'know.. the basic things like bones to peaches, livid farm, completing a few quest/side quest/optional additional tasks after quests related content etc. and can be completed by a single player.

Granted the arguement "Well.. that's what MQC is for" is completely true and what I'm saying isn't to make it a sort of "MQC-lite" version, but by doing so it gives a reason to add reasonable future content achievements etc.on release to standard comp's reqs. which goes beyond "regular" play.

To give the last bit some attention, I don't think anyone is honestly saying to scrap reaper from the game entirely (or at least to remove it as a whole from the comp system; including trim) as it is a valid achievement.But to suggest moving it to trimmed's reqs. is a reasonable proposal due to its blatant difficulty considering the majority of the playerbase just pay a group to give them the kills for it - thus devaluing it.

By moving it to trim, only those who are dedicated to go that extra mile will do it which, as a result, will reduce how many pay just to complete and will give added value to trimmed completionist as an added bonus.

09-Jan-2019 09:31:00

Daibhi

Daibhi

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Reaper Ghost said:

I also agree that a trimmed comp cape should be distinguished from a standard comp cape. To be honest, it should have some slightly improved stats over the standard comp cape, nothing over the top, but should definitely have some slightly better combat stats and a few other bonuses more than the standard comp cape.

These players worked hard to achieve even more and they deserve the reward of their accomplishment, something a little more than a cosmetic ....(in my opinion downgrade, i like white stream better than gold) and bragging rights.

That does not however mean that players that have done EVERYTHING deserve to have their cape nerfed to appease these other types of players. The completionist cape should get all bonuses of all the different types of cape that are so chosen to be added (given the completionist player has aquired the reqs of these other capes.)


I don't think anyone can argue that trimmed completionist shouldn't reward a player for achieving everything required for it so keeping this in mind should, in theory, still reward these players even if this rework does move a few things around.

I do think that considering trimmed comp is the next one up and demands so much more than the standard version in comparison (although both have the same level of difficulty currently), it should reflect that and reward those who currently own and will eventuallly own it.

As for the trim, I also think that (if you unlock the trimmed completionist) it should give you the option to switch between the gold and white trim on a whim depending on the players preference - afterall if you own trimmed that means you have done standard comp, so why not?

If someone owns a standard "completionist" cape, they aren't a completionist, the only player who is an actual completionist is the one who owns the trimmed completionist cape. I don't think trimmed comp owners have anything to worry about, it's more standard.

09-Jan-2019 09:43:23

Daibhi

Daibhi

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Nex is Life said:


Why not? It is a "completionist" cape is it not? This is why the name of it is divisive on its own because it acts like a carousel. Standard comp is the perfect candidate to be the next step in a players progress playing the game after maxing and then trimmed can be the one those who want to go further can move on to.

My reasoning is trimmed should be viewed as the end goal and reflect that in its reward(s?) to the player, something that would entice standard comp owners to consider moving up instead of settling for standard.

Difficulty in PVM is debatable and I'd say I'm a good example of it, for.. "normal" people with no issues? It's a case of learning how it works, remembering it - rinse and repeat. Whereas for situations for people like myself or worse, these aren't as easy as you think they are; for example go to anything arraxor and above - that's already pushing the limits, with my particular issues having a lot to focus on, remember etc. at the same time is mentally overwhelming and will/does cause me to almost shutdown (Broken home actually done this to me, in fact, and that's a quest, just because how memory demanding it is).

But I can see your side of that topic even though it doesn't apply to me as it probably is easy enough for most who haven't issues, so it's a tricky thing to negogiate without making it painfully easy and simplistic.

I meet most of those reqs. you listed, doesn't change what I said above though no matter how much I'd love that to be the case. Of course I don't have an "official" source, I didn't claim to have one that's just how I talk - look at Solak, everyone was climbing to pay for the kill or at least waiting until they could.

People buying DG are just being lazy, it isn't the same level of difficulty as reaper so no I don't think that. True, people can pay if they want but I do think that kind of defeats the point of something that's coined "completionist".

09-Jan-2019 15:00:00

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