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Comp cape without reaper fix

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Kcin

Kcin

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Prime†Axiom said:
The spirit of the Completionist cape is for players that have completed all significant ingame content. PVM is a large chunk of ingame content, and the most significant aspect of the current state of the game.

That being said, I like your idea. I simply want the names of the capes to more accurately reflect the achievements and skill it takes to get them. Simply make an alternative cape with no combat bonuses called the
Completetrash
cape for people who can't PVM. Once you get the reaper title, you'll get a
I don't suck at PVM anymore token
that you can attach it to your
Completetrash
cape to make it a real
Completionist
Cape. It's basically your idea, but with accurate labelling.


Wit that logic the Trim cape should be the normal comp reqs with the added of the insane final boss, requiring to get all possible drops from all possible mobs, all 200ms to top it off you must own all the gp in the game otherwise you haven't done and gotten everything in the game, and be rank 1 in the highscores(seasonals included). Unless you get everything in RS then all comp capes would be as you call them Completrash capes. I hope you realize how ridiculous what you just said is now. Being able to do a group boss just means at minimum you have enough money to leech a kill.

I support this thread and honestly hope jagex does remove the reaper title req from comp cape and balance it with that removed.
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01-Mar-2018 16:16:30 - Last edited on 01-Mar-2018 16:22:41 by Kcin

Kcin

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R†e†v said:
I'm close on Comp cape, i would only want them to remove the lunar spells. that's all i hate about the comp cape at the moment. Or make livid farm give more points, but other than that, reaper title should stay as is.


How you feel about livid farm is how others feel about the bossing/group bossing.
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02-Mar-2018 23:18:24

Kcin

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I†Kinda†Fail said:

That said, I must also acknowledge that comp also currently requires all music tracks; this would have to be removed as a requirement if they did my (and others') idea.


This could be easily fixed by having the tracks unlocked by being in the area and not just in the boss arena.
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03-Mar-2018 04:25:38

Kcin

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Look another dumb excuse people use to defend reaper
Nex†is†Life said:

Look another dumb excuse people use.
1.) Make friends

Friends/groups of people shouldn't be required for a solo piece of content.

Nex†is†Life said:

2.) Is a brief experience on a game with 9 people you don't know that hard

Again group shouldn't be a req for a solo piece of content


Nex†is†Life said:

6.) I leeched a level 69 through raids, so take a moment to appreciate that you are worse than that level 69. And no, they didnt pay.

At the point of leeching, what is the difference between having it be a req and having leeches count. In both circumstances the player doesn't actually complete the content.
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03-Mar-2018 22:23:36 - Last edited on 03-Mar-2018 22:23:55 by Kcin

Kcin

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Lord†Kylle said:
Even though we agree comp cape is about completing everything,


Comp hasn't ever been about completing everything, thats the exact reason why Trim comp exists, and the fact that there are quite a few things on the mqc that aren't required on the comp cape. So can we stop saying comp cape is/has always been completing everything. It has always been a pick and choose and I don't see a problem with removing group bosses from comp cape.

Going off of that could anyone explain to me what the difference is in actually completing content between a leecher doing nothing in a boss kill vs the boss kill getting removed and the same person getting comp.
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04-Mar-2018 04:39:14

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:

The comp cape isn't solo content.
We both know you didn't solo 120 DG.

So multiple people can wear your cape? and actually funny you say that, cause I did solo 200m dung.

Nex†is†Life said:

Regarding leeching, theres no real way to tell but frankly it doesn't matter. You have at least given the content a feel.

Just standing in a corner in a boss room is not giving the content a feel. There is no difference between that leecher and one who doesn't even do the boss.

Lord†Kylle said:

And just after that, I wrote that it has always been a mixture, meaning it isn't really everything we complete, and yes that makes room for MQC and trim comp.
So the comp cape is about completing most of the game, but not everything.

I know you said that but I quoted that part for those who say comp cape is the "completionist" cape because in truth it isn't a completionist cape. If the cape was to be about completing everything half the stuff from trim would be required for comp(those left being only the extremist stuff) and MQC should be required for comp cape if it was. So I don't see why leaving off one of the group contents off comp cape( group bosses eg reaper title) would be any different than leaving MQC off.

Lord†Kylle said:

Removing group bosses from comp req would remove most leeching, it's just quite a big step to take, I just hope some jmod reads this thread so they might better decide, and not do something too many dislike.

I do understand that it is a big thing but if they do go where they want with bosses to where only 1% of the community can complete it, then at that point the cape would really need to be fixed so that there is a balance in difficulty vs reward.
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04-Mar-2018 14:59:18

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:

Guess you cheesed it with sinkholes and dailies then.

Wrong again, solo dungs all the way, solo smalls floor 30+ rushing anything below. Maybe you should stick to the argument instead of trying for an ad hominem.
Nex†is†Life said:

RuneScape is an MMO. Note the second M. Not sure why you think group content should be shunted.

Just because it is a MMO doesn't mean everything has to be Multiplayer *cough* telos arraxor *cough*

Nex†is†Life said:

Maybe. But DG can be 100% leeched, guess it shouldn't be a comp req?

Difference between raids and DG, dung can be soloed, raids can't.

Nex†is†Life said:

There isn't any kind of barrier between leeching and enjoying experiencing content when it comes to unlocking a cape, but it's better than completely avoiding said content.

Being a leecher who stands in a corner isn't enjoying the experience nor actually experiencing the content so again it doesn't matter if its a leecher or not doing the content they are the same in this case.

Nex†is†Life said:

lol no. It should be a prestigious and hard to get cape.

And shouldn't rely on other people get a cape only you can wear

Nex†is†Life said:

MQC is for finding all lore, finding post-quest content, reading books scattered throughout the game it's not a "stuff left out of comp cape" cape.

In most games completing the story is beating the game. In a role playing game story is the main game. Maybe you forgot what the MMORPG stands for. Maybe I should put it in your words: Nex†is†Life said:
guess every requirement you don't like should be taken off? lol no.


So why should the story aspect not be a part of comp but a group boss should.
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04-Mar-2018 17:21:33 - Last edited on 04-Mar-2018 17:22:05 by Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:

I didn't say there was anything wrong with the sinkholes/dailies way. Solo smalls all the way on the other hand, what a waste of time.

We are on a MMORPG called Runescape, no one can call what others do on this game a waste of time. Its all pixels.

Nex†is†Life said:
my point was group content is a huge part of the game.

But it isn't anywhere near what Solo content is, hell we have 2 modes that are solo only for the entire game and they have access to nearly the whole game. So no group content isnt a huge part of the game.

Nex†is†Life said:
. Why should someting not be a requirement just because it CAN be leeched, and why does that apply to PvM but not DG?

Because DG can be done solo, a group boss cannot. Talk about missing points.


Nex†is†Life said:
That doesn't mean that something shouldn't be a requirement.

Missed the point again. What is the difference between having someone get comp cape through leeches not doing anything with the boss, or someone who got comp without the boss req. There is none.

Nex†is†Life said:

You're not relying on others

Ad hominem again tsk tsk. Relying on others to be able to complete a boss eg even starting the encounter is relying on them no matter how good you think you are.

Nex†is†Life said:
Reading a book about a character's origin isn't necessarily essential to complete the plot involving them.

Beating a boss once with other people isn't either yet ones a req that has no real meaning in the game, and another is actual lore.

Nex†is†Life said:

If completing the game is completing the story, what does skilling have to do with that?

Forget MMORPG again? Has many aspects, lore, pvm, skilling. If you limit what one puts into a cape then you can limit what the others do.
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04-Mar-2018 18:10:46

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:

But Ironmen can do group PvM, proof of it's importantance.

The point, you missed it again. If it was a MMORPG where you had to interact with the multiplayer aspects for everything that would be a solo piece of content, ironman mode would never exist. So ironman exist, so can a comp cape where group bosses aren't required to get it.
Nex†is†Life said:

My point was about leeching.

Yet your argument is based on a flawed base. Dung can be soloed, group bosses can't, so the leeching aspect has no impact in that.

Nex†is†Life said:

You missed the point again. What is the difference between having someone get comp cape through leeches not doing anything in DG, or someone who got comp without DG.

The difference once again: Dung can be soloed by players
group bosses cannot.


Nex†is†Life said:

Other people have no problem with group bosses

Ever since reaper was announced as a comp req plenty of people have had a problem with group bosses as a req.

Nex†is†Life said:

Many bosses drop lore books, which you have said are a part of the story - I agree; other than that here is a good example.

Yeah and those should be required for an actual comp cape, but you do not unlock a lore story by killing a boss in a group of players so that is different. Again it seems like you are pick and choosing what you think should be on the comp cape.

Edit:
The fact that group bosses are toggleable to get in soul reaper shows Jagex knows the community has a problem with them for solo content,
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04-Mar-2018 19:11:07 - Last edited on 04-Mar-2018 19:17:05 by Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:

MMORPG

Ironman mode


Nex†is†Life said:
The same can be applied to DG. The option is there to leech it.

Yes the option is there, but there is also the option to complete it solo. Group bosses do not have the option to solo them. That is the difference how hard is that to understand for you?

Nex†is†Life said:

And everyone else had no problem.

Yes people do have problem with them or else Jagex wouldn't have made the group bosses toggleable for soul reaper.

Nex†is†Life said:

I'm not picking and choosing, people crying about reaper title are.

1)ad hominems still fail you
2)I aint crying I'm pointing out how flawed the logic to have group bosses as a req for solo content is
Nex†is†Life said:

AoD drops lore books required for MQC.


Maybe if you read and understood what I have been saying you would already have that answer.
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04-Mar-2018 20:51:48

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:

Ironmen have access to group content.

They are restricted from the multiplayer aspect so therefore not everything has to have the multiplayer aspect. If there wasn't interest in solo content that wouldn't exist.

Nex†is†Life said:

Regardless

If i can be soloed it has a place on a solo piece of content requirements, if it requires a group it has no place being a req for a solo piece of content. Comp cape already leaves out a ton of stuff in the game so what is so wrong about leaving out group bosses? What is the difference between leaving group bosses out of comp cape and leaving out the castle wars req.

Nex†is†Life said:

It's unwillingness.

No its logic. It makes no sense for solo content to be locked behind a group. Jagex has recognized this in the fact they made group bosses toggleable on the soul reaper.
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04-Mar-2018 22:20:53 - Last edited on 04-Mar-2018 22:25:27 by Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:

Not everything has to be solo content either.

No one is saying that, what people are saying is keep solo content to solo only reqs.

Nex†is†Life said:

Again the ironman argument is dumb

The quote to defend or promote anything on comp cape is dumb because there is no guidline. Why does group bosses get on comp but not mqc requirements, why do minigames get left out while those are part of the game. Etc etc. There is no sound reason to keep group bosses on comp cape while there is plenty of things that aren't reqs.

Nex†is†Life said:

At the end of the day, there is going to be group content in an MMO.

And that should never block someone from being able to play solo for all the solo content(comp cape included)

Nex†is†Life said:

Who decided comp was solo content again?

Get back to me on that when you get multiple people to wear the cape you own and not their own.
Nex†is†Life said:

It's your unwillingness that stops you from doing this content.

I do like how you are unwilling to respond or even look at the fact that Jagex realizes group bosses are a screw up for solo content(soul reaper)
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04-Mar-2018 23:03:14

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:

But comp isn't a solo only req. Who said it was?

Kcin said:

Get back to me on that when you get multiple people to wear the cape you own and not their own.


Nex†is†Life said:

So a requirement you don't like should be taken off because other things aren't on there?

No a requirement that makes no sense there shouldn't be. Group content shouldn't block solo content. Why should group bossing be on comp when castle wars or penance king isn't. Why should reaper be for comp when lock stock and barrel isn't(t10 meno rep) or the kalgerion titles. etc etc.

Nex†is†Life said:

So I guess all the minigames should be taken off Trim

Yet this isnt about trim comp

Nex†is†Life said:

The reaper title is a one time thing. Soul Reaper is a daily activity.

That is a very poor argument. Finding a team for various bosses could be annoying if you don't have friends who PvM. It's an option for people like you, not the standard, having a toggle there does not mean group bosses aren't a part of the game. Additionally, who want kbd/giant mole type tasks, may not have the stats to stand up to strong group bosses. Most high level solo/soloable bosses have entry requirements those low levels won't have, but KK, ROTS, Rago do not.

Why isn't the champ challenge on comp cape if reaper is. Why is reaper so important to comp cape that you are so up in arms trying to defend it when there is a plethora of reasons why it is an arbitrary requirement that can easily be removed and replaced. Why isn't Hard as daemons, why isn't nomad's mirage, why isn't diary of oreb, or the history of slayer. The list goes on and on.
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05-Mar-2018 01:20:19

Kcin

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Prime†Axiom said:

You gotta complete all notable game content for it. End of story.

How is killing raids once more notable than completing the slayer codex? Or getting tier 10 rep in meno? How is rots more notable than penance king? The reqs are arbitrary end of story.

Nex†is†Life said:
So these things that take thousands of hours like cwars and champion scrolls are on trim, therefore relevant content should be taken off regular comp?

In your words:
Nex†is†Life said:
I think comp cape should be a high goal to strive for, not something handed out to everybody. I also think harder to complete tasks that take less time, such as reaper, are more better requirements

So yes by your logic they should be on comp cape and not on trim only. If you disagree there is not a logical reason as to why to keep a req on comp
Nex†is†Life said:
Or are YOU going to pick and choose and say not that one actually?


Nex†is†Life said:

Get back to me on that when you get multiple people to wear the cape you own and not their own.
So can multiple people wear your trim cape? /quote]

Ahh so you do agree comp cape is solo content. Avoidance of a given answer, answering a question with a question clearly shows you cannot answer it and know you are wrong.
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05-Mar-2018 21:48:37

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
Avoidance of a given answer, answering a question with a question clearly shows you cannot answer it and know you are wrong.

No I don't know did you managed to come the conclusion I think comp is solo content.[/quote]
Thanks for quoting the answer so I didn't have to. Just reread that part
Nex†is†Life said:

It isn't and shouldn't be. Comp cape is completing all/most content including group content.

Yeah no it isn't. There are a ton of trim comp reqs that aren't comp reqs, there are a ton of mqc reqs that aren't, there is a ton of content that isn't on any of those and aren't on comp. But please go on living in your lie.

Nex†is†Life said:

As for putting all trim reqs on, whats the point in having both capes then?

If comp cape was as you state there wouldn't even be a trim comp.
Kcin said:
Why does group bosses get on comp but not mqc requirements, why do minigames get left out while those are part of the game. Etc etc. There is no sound reason to keep group bosses on comp cape while there is plenty of things that aren't reqs.
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06-Mar-2018 00:13:32

Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
Kcin said:

You're dismissing my argument


Actually you still never answered mine so whos the one dismissing arguments and talking about dismissed arguments:
Kcin said:

Why isn't the champ challenge on comp cape if reaper is. Why is reaper so important to comp cape that you are so up in arms trying to defend it when there is a plethora of reasons why it is an arbitrary requirement that can easily be removed and replaced. Why isn't Hard as daemons, why isn't nomad's mirage, why isn't diary of oreb, or the history of slayer. The list goes on and on.


Face it reaper is just another arbitrary requirement that can be removed without any actual harm.
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06-Mar-2018 01:13:20 - Last edited on 06-Mar-2018 01:13:52 by Kcin

Kcin

Kcin

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Prime†Axiom said:

Both slayer codex and t10 are already trimmed comp requirements? So what's your point?


So why couldn't reaper be made a trim comp req then? So what's my point? My point is the reqs are arbitrary and there is no reason why one is on comp and one is on trim besides jagex decided oh i think maybe this should go on trim maybe this on comp. There is no rhyme or reason.
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06-Mar-2018 03:16:51

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:

No, I responded.


Ignored again and brought back to a point you didn't answer comp cape is solo content, no others can help you towards 99% of the reqs and tried bringing up a point that group content has rewards.

Why don't you go ahead and answer these.
Kcin said:

Kcin said:

Why isn't the champ challenge on comp cape if reaper is. Why is reaper so important to comp cape that you are so up in arms trying to defend it when there is a plethora of reasons why it is an arbitrary requirement that can easily be removed and replaced. Why isn't Hard as daemons, why isn't nomad's mirage, why isn't diary of oreb, or the history of slayer. The list goes on and on.


Face it reaper is just another arbitrary requirement that can be removed without any actual harm.
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06-Mar-2018 04:31:44 - Last edited on 06-Mar-2018 04:33:53 by Kcin

Kcin

Kcin

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Prime†Axiom said:
Again, the clue is in the name. It's called the Completionist Cape. It implies you have completed all notable ingame content. PVM is a huge part of the game.


Quests and lore are a huge part of the game, yet a vast majority of that isn't on comp, pking(was) a huge part of the game vast majority of that isnt on the cape. IT aint a compeltionist cape its an uber cape, they should have kept that name for it cause thats what it is more closely linked with.

Nex†is†Life said:

Other people not being able to wear your comp cape does not make it solo content.

Man ironman armor(ironman mode) isn't solo content either I see

Nex†is†Life said:

what I have answered three times

Yet you haven't answered the point. Comp cape is a reward for a solo player "completing" the game(which it isnt but thats not the point here) where the vast majority (~99%) of the requirements is soloable content intended to give a reward to a single player. It was designed for a single player, where your "counter" was about raids which was directed from the start towards groups and no solo which comp was.

Nex†is†Life said:

I've already answered that twice, so have other people.

Yet you haven't actually.
Kcin said:

Why isn't the champ challenge on comp cape if reaper is.
Why is reaper so important to comp cape that you are so up in arms trying to defend it when there is a plethora of reasons why it is an arbitrary requirement that can easily be removed and replaced.
Why isn't Hard as daemons, why isn't nomad's mirage, why isn't diary of oreb, or the history of slayer. The list goes on and on.
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06-Mar-2018 20:27:26

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
Try to make this a coherent sentance please.

Your logic = ironman mode is multiplayer

Nex†is†Life said:

Since you're just quoting your old posts I'll do the same.
It's not a group content only cape nor a solo content only cape, it's a RuneScape content cape that includes both solo and group content.

Kcin said:

Quests and lore are a huge part of the game, yet a vast majority of that isn't on comp, pking(was) a huge part of the game vast majority of that isnt on the cape. IT aint a compeltionist cape
Same goes for it isn't a RuneScape content cape.

Nex†is†Life said:

There is no reason to make comp cape easier to get.

Remove it replace it with another req from mqc or a new req entirely wouldn't make it easier it just replaces one arbitrary req with another

Nex†is†Life said:

PvM is a huge part of the game, you can't "complete" it having never touched PvM.

You get enough PvM in quests so whats your point? Quests bosses can easily clear the gap of dabble in bossing. So by completing all the quests you do complete the PvM aspect.

Nex†is†Life said:

And again, you could use this argument for any requirement.


So you agree, the reqs are all arbitrary and one doesn't mean anything more than another. So one can be removed and replaced without any harm. Good to know you are now going against yourself.
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06-Mar-2018 21:18:58

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:

I said Ironmen have access to group content. Nice conclusion you came to.

You really should stop with the ironman example cause it completely fails you, you clearly don't know how ironman mode works but heres a refresher: "Ironman Mode and Hardcore Ironman Mode are account-types that encourage the player to be entirely self-sufficient. Both types of Ironman mode are locked out of most forms of interactions with other players such as trading, the Grand Exchange, most group minigames, PvP, and almost all other group activities." They barely have access to group stuff outside of talking. I suggest you do research if you wanna further use that point.

Nex†is†Life said:

So it doesn't literally mean completing everything in the game, comp cape is still a big milestone and desirable reward, there is no reason to take stuff off.

Except the stuff that doesn't make sense eg group bosses. You still have not given an answer as to why reaper is so much more important to comp cape than all the other possible reqs that could go on it.


Nex†is†Life said:

Not sure how a putting a pking requirement on comp would work as there isn't really a visible goal in PvP beyond killing the person in front of you

There are Pking rewards you can unlock that can't be traded.
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07-Mar-2018 01:52:27 - Last edited on 08-Mar-2018 01:12:05 by Kcin

Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:

What exactly would you replace it with. Yet another afk grind requirement? Finding a lore book?
Replacing it would make devalue comp because not all requirements are of equal difficulty.

Find all dragonkin journals(qbd), Nomad's Mirage, hard as daemons are a few that are equally as challenging if not more challenging(debatable) than group bosses. Again you fail to state how replacing reaper would devalue comp.

Nex†is†Life said:

I think having to have tried all bosses being a "completionist" requirement makes perfect sense. Most quest fights are a joke anyway

Like leeches aren't making a joke of the boss? Having tried all the bosses being a completionist is a horrible excuse, since you know the fact that there is a huge chunk of the game you don't even touch on your way to comp cape.

Nex†is†Life said:

Another false conclusion you twisted my words into. No, I stated you could use that argument for any requirement you don't like can't do. I did not say it was valid.

You then have yet to prove that they aren't arbitrary and keep avoiding actually answering that.
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07-Mar-2018 01:52:32

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:

Pretty sure it fails you as Ironmen have access to group PvM, thus proving how important it is to the game.

Um what? One little aspect of the game and you say Ironman have access to group content when they only have access to 3 group pieces of content out of all Group content in the game? That shows it isn't important to the game where all but 3 group pieces of content can be ignored and still played to the fullest enjoyment.

Nex†is†Life said:

Again, and again, and again

Again and again you fail to answer the question:
Kcin said:
Why is reaper so important to comp cape that you are so up in arms trying to defend it when there is a plethora of reasons why it is an arbitrary requirement that can easily be removed and replaced.


Nex†is†Life said:

Wouldn't put me off, but I'm not sure it would be fair to everyone, especially forcing people to risk gear for BH.

Ancient tele tab making, deathmatch title scroll, small rune pouch, bounty teleport, rouge gloves, for a few pvp reqs that aren't on comp, but I'm not sure it would be fair to everyone, especially forcing people to group up with others and risk their wealth learning a boss for one kill.

Nex†is†Life said:

Why replace instead of keeping it

Because you have yet to give a real reason as to why its on comp.
Kcin said:
Why is reaper so important to comp cape that you are so up in arms trying to defend it when there is a plethora of reasons why it is an arbitrary requirement that can easily be removed and replaced.


Nice way to end with a slippery slope fallacy. Shows that you have no argument to for reaper.
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08-Mar-2018 00:35:47 - Last edited on 08-Mar-2018 00:36:18 by Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
And shows that the group content (group PvM) we do have access to is important.

No if it was important to access ironmen would have been able to day 1. A small group doesn't make it important.


Nex†is†Life said:

I did answer: There's no reason to make comp easier to get.

Replacing it doesn't make it easier. Also you gave no reason to why reaper itself is important to comp so no you didn't answer it.

Nex†is†Life said:

I mentioned BH and DM rewards guess you just can't read.

You mentioned 2 things, mocking that it can't be a req i showed you that there are plenty in the PvP that could go on comp reqs. Guess you just can't make that connection.

Nex†is†Life said:

That's really funny I wondered

Funny how you try and mock me when I used your exact argument against you. An unsafe death oh wow. All boss fights have unsafe deaths, getting those reaper kills is unsafe, But I'm sure dying normally in the wilderness is exactly the same risk as getting killed in a boss fight, and having to pay more for the expensive gear you bring to a boss.

Nex†is†Life said:

So what are these "plethora of reasons"?

1)It has no real meaning to comp cape
2)It was just added onto the comp without any checklist to see if it should be on comp
3)there is no rhyme or reason to the things that are on comp
4)There are thousands of things not on comp that can go on comp
The list goes on

Nex†is†Life said:

What exactly makes reaper "arbitrary" but not other requirements?

I have stated that the all reqs are arbitrary:
Kcin said:
The reqs are arbitrary end of story.

Kcin said:

the reqs are all arbitrary and one doesn't mean anything more than another.
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08-Mar-2018 02:22:30 - Last edited on 08-Mar-2018 02:24:21 by Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:

Replacing a requirement that has people crying with one that doesn't sure sounds like making it easier.

Right now you are the one "crying" the most about a req being removed.funny how you keep saying making people happy is making it easier. Just go try and do Hard as daemons or nomad's mirage and you'll know they are equally as challenging or harder than doing a group boss. But if you were a true completionist gamer you would have done that already...

Nex†is†Life said:

But putting them on is not really a good idea.

Its as good of an idea as putting group bosses on comp.


Nex†is†Life said:
Wildy on the other hand

And shows how much you know about wilderness fighting.

Nex†is†Life said:

1 Comp cape is for "completing" most content.

So is quests/lore/skilling yet there are many reqs that could be made onto comp that aren't there, so no it is not for completing most content as most content you never touch going for comp.
Nex†is†Life said:

2 You don't know that

I know that because there hasn't been a set of guidlines as to what is defined as comp cape req, requirements. Find the list that shows the checks they go through before putting something on comp to prove that wrong.
Nex†is†Life said:

3 There is some

Prove it, and I guarantee i can debunk that with thousands of other reqs that fit that but aren't on.
Nex†is†Life said:

4 put more reqs on

Not the point of the debate.

Nex†is†Life said:

You have stated. Stating something doesn't make it true.

"ar∑bi∑trar∑y
ˈšrbəˌtrerē/Submit
adjective
based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system."
Its a fact that comp reqs fall into all those categories. So by fact they are arbitrary
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08-Mar-2018 14:18:42 - Last edited on 08-Mar-2018 14:40:20 by Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
Nomad's Mirage is easy. I could agree it's on par with one boss, but not all of them.

Difficulty cannot be used as an example for group bosses which can be leeched which is easier than Nomad's Mirage.

Nex†is†Life said:

A lot more than you I promise.

Just go check OSRS youll see majority of them aren't even using gear equivalent to our game.

Nex†is†Life said:

MQC has 191 requirements vs untrimmed comp 68, but those 68 are most of the game.

68 vs 191, sounds like one cape definitely does more than the other cape whats the difference between doing a 5 min post quest reward vs doing a 10 min single boss leech? Nothing.

Nex†is†Life said:

What seems to be random to you? Look at whats on rather than what isn't. Master all skills, complete all quests, do all tasks, unlock all music (visit every place/activity), unlock all spells, unlock all prayers (except praesul cos 1.5b), unlock all potions, defeat all bosses... hmm... I'm starting to see a pattern... nah must be purely whimsical choices.


Tell me how it isn't random, start listing all the things that aren't comp that are similar to things that are on comp. Also not all abilities unlocked, not all spells are needed to be unlocked not all prayers(you stated it but still). Show me the list that Jagex uses to determine what is on Comp?
Kcin said:

"ar∑bi∑trar∑y
ˈšrbəˌtrerē/Submit
adjective
based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system
."

There is no system that they go off of, they don't go off of reason or a lot more would be on comp cape, it is all random choice and personal whim by the Jmods.
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08-Mar-2018 18:38:18

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
Hmm you're right. Nomad's Mirage should definately be a req.
Replace Reaper.

Nex†is†Life said:

Learn PvP in the REAL GAME.

Learn to know what an example is, they have the same bounty hunter style we do, and you don't see them going around in top tier gear unless they are streaming.

Original message details are unavailable.

I didn't say anything about abilities, but I do think untradable ones should be added. What spells don't you need?

The PvP unlockable one, mazcab one.

Nex†is†Life said:

No.
-Max out skills, quests, tasks, most unlockables, complete most things that can reasonably be completed
-Move unreasonable shit that takes thousands of hours more to trim
-MQC stuff is discovering backstory rather than role playing story

Thought you'd never get to this:
MQC: quests and lore are the story of this game, one definition of beating a game is beating the story which comp cape doesn't need, minigames you never touch in comp, it makes even less sense that tier 10 in one meno area is a trim req while having max rep in meno is a trim req as well, Nomad's miniquest, yet an unreasonable group boss is comp req, but beating all the quest bosses aren't? Why is constructing the tuska mask? Why is the kudos a req? Why isn't unlocking the ports gear but the cape is? Why is catching all the imps on this list? Why is reaper on this list but others aren't. The list goes on.

The question you keep avoiding because you can't answer it:

Kcin said:
Why is reaper so important to comp cape that you are so up in arms trying to defend it
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08-Mar-2018 21:16:49

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
Nomad is easier

Leeching one boss is easier.

Nex†is†Life said:

Let me know when you log into RS3.

Let me know when you actually PvP.

Nex†is†Life said:

What Mazcab spell? Ability to modify teletabs isn't really a spell.

"The Mazcab teleport codex is an item that can be used to unlock Mazcab Teleport spell which can be found on the Normal spellbook. It can be bought from the Armoursmith for 2,000 Teci."
"Bounty Teleport is a spell that may be purchased from the Bounty Hunter & Deathmatch Reward Shop for 100 Deathmatch reward points."


Nex†is†Life said:

What I'm saying is that some MQC requirements aren't necessarily a part of the story.

Same can be said about majority of bosses.

Nex†is†Life said:

Reading a book after the quest to learn more isn't essential

Same with a boss kill.

Nex†is†Life said:

Reefwalker cape scroll is on because Comp has the same HP and armour as a Superior Reefwalker cape to keep it best in slot.

It is a ports scroll unlock so all other port scrolls should be unlocked as a req to if you want it to not be pick and choose random.

Nex†is†Life said:

Already answered this numerous times

You haven't
Nex†is†Life said:

1 Comp shouldn't be devalued

Replacing won't devalue, also harmony moss
Nex†is†Life said:

2 Completing most of the game includes PvM

Again it isn't most of the game and its been proven it isn't most of the game.
Bossing isn't nearly as massive as you make it out to be

What does reaper itself bring to the table that others that aren't on the comp cape would.
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09-Mar-2018 00:17:55 - Last edited on 09-Mar-2018 00:35:03 by Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
Doing every boss is not.

Yet you can leech them and you can't leech Nomad so who is the more of a challenge and true show.
Its Nomad


Nex†is†Life said:

wtf when was this added to the game

Nice show of how comp is most of the game when you don't know a simple teleport in a part of a big expansion of the game.

Nex†is†Life said:

I'm not the one arguing that comp is exclusively for completing the story when it isn't.
I'm not either, im simply showing that comp isn't a comp cape so you shouldn't act like it. Reaper has no more place on comp than finding all the lore.


Nex†is†Life said:

It has a good reason to be there, not random at all.

Then why aren't the others that fit that exact reason not on. It is Kcin said:

based on random choice or
personal whim
, rather than any reason or system
."



Nex†is†Life said:

Harmony moss, what??

Keep proving that point of comp cape isn't completionist.

Nex†is†Life said:

Replacing with an easier requirement is devaluing.

Oh god leeching is soooooo hard.

Nex†is†Life said:

Saying something is proven does not make it so.

Yet I have proven it.

Nex†is†Life said:

Clearly, reaper brings a challenge to the table, or people would not be whining for it to be removed.

Yep leeching, super hard, super challenging. Nomad solo content that is challenging no on. Something seems off with that argument. People are complaining that its on comp cape because
it is group content.
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09-Mar-2018 01:14:01 - Last edited on 09-Mar-2018 01:17:22 by Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
But you still can't do it somehow

Can't do it more like don't wanna deal with the elitists when trying to find a group(you might say your kind but how you're talking is full elitist talk) MQC is my goal, the cape that is closer to completionist.

Nex†is†Life said:

I guarantee that teleport did not come out with Mazcab+Raids

Doesn't excuse not knowing about it if you are going to act like comp cape is a completionist cape. Not being a dick just pointing out flaws in your arguments.

Nex†is†Life said:

So what cape is it in your opinion?

The cape as it is, is just a cape with a few reqs it has no actual meaning since the reqs for it have no meaning towards the cape. It can't be considered a completionist cape, its more of a rag tag cape in the current state. With the removal of reaper and the addition of other reqs they have the chance to make it an actual completionist cape that you can get by completing the game without the need for forced groups. My opinion of course.

Nex†is†Life said:

The Reefwalker is there because it's stats are added to comp.

The states came after the unlock the reefwalker is not a req for because of the stats it is an unlock because it is part of ports, so are the other scrolls and therefore if there was reason to it the other scrolls would be on.

Nex†is†Life said:

What exactly are you saying about Harmony Moss?

Requirement that shortened from 200(i think that was the number) down to 50. Why? Because the community thought that 200 was to much just like the community thinks group bosses are to much for the comp cape.

Original message details are unavailable.

Too hard for you it seems

Already explained that, the leeching part isn't hard at all. Dealing with the stuck ups like you who think they are so great because they did a group boss.(cont)
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09-Mar-2018 03:45:54 - Last edited on 09-Mar-2018 03:46:12 by Kcin

Kcin

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Or the other group same mindset but who let others on for the sole purpose of bragging and saying they aren't elitist because they allowed x person to leech off them.

Nex†is†Life said:

You already fight nomad in the quest anyway so it is on comp.
Group content is a part of the game. Get over it.
And some others are complaining because they can't do it.

Post quest fight isn't the in quest fight. Also by that logic that all quests featuring Nomad as a boss past Nomad's requiem shouldn't be a comp req because you already fought nomad once so it is on comp already.
A small part of the game. Get over it.
Just like some people are complaining because they want to feel all high and mighty that they did it?
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09-Mar-2018 03:45:58

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
I like helping others, guess you wouldn't understand since you refuse to team up with anyone.
Nice ad hominem

It aint an ad hominem never directed it at you, just stating why people don't like/don't even bother with going for group bosses.
Alex, can I get What is humble?


Nex†is†Life said:

It's not the quest fight? I thought it was a replay.

No, it is not the quest fight, it is a hard version of the quest fight no checkpoint, no interludes. From the wiki "The Memory of Nomad is essentially a Hard mode version of the fight in Nomad's Elegy. Most of the mechanics are the same as in the normal fight and there are a few additional mechanics, especially in the final phase."

Nex†is†Life said:

But a part of the game nonetheless.

Reaper has no more right to be on comp than all the left out reqs. Group content doesn't have the right to block solo content. You keep crying that its group content its a group game. If its a group game why are minigames dead, why is solo content thriving, why are group bosses hated by many?

Nex†is†Life said:

Oh nice more ad hominem

Again not an ad hominem because it wasn't directed at you, just a statement of observations. But if you wanna put yourself in that group again by all means go ahead.

Nex†is†Life said:

I don't feel high and mighty because it's not actually hard at all.

Then why do you keep going on and go about how hard it is, why it is so hard that it deserves to be on comp to make comp so hard. If you admit it is so hard then there is no harm removing it from comp because it won't make it easier if it is already easy. Pick a side, its either hard or not.
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09-Mar-2018 04:30:39 - Last edited on 09-Mar-2018 04:32:14 by Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
But why baby people and lower the goalposts? Suck it up, I'm not crying to remove gathering skills, bones to peaches, Arc unlocks and other requirements I find unbearable from comp. The whole point of a goal is that it shouldn't be easy. It's about the journey not the reward. And if it is about the reward, then the harder it is, the better getting it will feel.


But why actually do what the people and remove the thing the community doesn't want on comp(group bosses)? Suck it up, I'm not crying to remove gathering skills, bones to peaches, Arc unlocks and other requirements that aren't forcing groups. The whole point of comp cape is that it should have reasonable requirements. It's about the journey not the reward. And if it is about the reward, then the more reasonable it is, the better getting it will feel.

In your own words reaper isn't a hard requirement for comp cape.
Nex†is†Life said:

it's not actually hard at all.
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09-Mar-2018 04:30:43 - Last edited on 09-Mar-2018 04:32:04 by Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
So 100% of the PvM commuinity are elitists. Got it. Me? Whiners annoy me. I don't find fault with someone being new to PvM, not knowing anything or not having gear. But if they don't learn, if they refuse to learn... I don't want to or have to help anymore and I will call them bad at the game.

So 100% of the PvM commuinity are elitists. Got it. Me? Whiners annoy me. I don't find fault with someone being old to PvM, having done the boss from day one. But if they don't let others learn, if they refuse to let them on the team because they don't have bis... I don't want to or have to deal with them anymore and I will call them out on it.

Nex†is†Life said:

But you are being a dick

I didn't call you anything, I didn't direct anything at you, it isn't my fault if you feel you fall into that category.

Nex†is†Life said:

and no, not knowing about a newly added

Yet someone who has a comp cape should have knowledge of the game and its updates.

Nex†is†Life said:

Removing requirements makes it more "rag tag".

It isn't rag tag as it is with the thrown together requirements with the requirements that make no sense to have left off when there are things on it similar in nature? This is their chance to revamp comp remove the group content off comp cape, add in requirements that make sense, and actually make it a uniform requirement cape.
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09-Mar-2018 04:40:58

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:

Sup Reefwalker has the best in slot HP and armour boost.

remove the stats and there is no difference between scroll unlock for sup reefwalker vs sup ports gear. Strengthening my point on comp reqs make no sense as to what is put on and what is left off.

Nex†is†Life said:

Reducing a time gated requirement is not the same as a removing a requirement. You've proven you can harvest Harmony Moss (its very hard) so harvesting 150 more is somewhat needless. Now if 200 kills in each boss were the requirement, I would support reducing that.

I keep saying replace with a more reasonable req. And in this exact quote you make yourself a hypocrite.

Nex†is†Life said:
guess you speak for "the community". The same community that kills tens of thousands of group bosses every day.

Now lets compare that number to the amount of people who don't group boss and see who the bigger community is. We both now the answer isn't the group bossing sub community.
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09-Mar-2018 04:41:04 - Last edited on 09-Mar-2018 04:43:03 by Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:

We both know thats not true.

Please show me where I stated you, or your name.

Nex†is†Life said:

But reaper isn't "blocking" any requirements at all.

The group bosses are because finding a group.. (already been over that point)

Nex†is†Life said:

There is no "group content blocking solo content".

Comp cape is solo content(only one person can use it) and group bosses are blocking that.

Nex†is†Life said:

The reason most minigames are dead is because the rewards aren't worth getting.

Actually its because the community is moving away from group content slowly. They made thaler to improve minigame rewards and still they are in the same condition because the community is moving away from group content. Its jagex that is wanting the group bosses mostly.
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09-Mar-2018 04:47:34

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
Lucky for you only a minority of PvMers are like this because the rest of us remember we were all learners once.

Yeah they say that about the dung community, and yet there was a reason why I soloed 200m.

Nex†is†Life said:

You don't have to call someone things to be a dick.

Much like saying people who point out flaws in the requirements or those who think something has no place on comp are babies and criers, whiners, can't even boss, what else have you called it? But we digress.
Don't call out people when you are guilty yourself of what you are calling out


Nex†is†Life said:

No, nobody has to know about every patch and update ever that doesn't effect their gameplay.

Because comp cape has no format to its reqs, if it did that teleport would have been a req and therefore you would have known, so yes you should have if you want to go for a comp cape, just like how you say you should be forced into group bosses. Or are you going to continue what you keep saying you hate about it?

Nex†is†Life said:

It's not being revamped.

Never said it was, saying it was a good chance for them to. A start is to remove reaper from comp.
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09-Mar-2018 04:58:06

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
It was implied and we both know that.

How you take it i cannot control, but I didnt not imply anything about you, just stating what the flaws in group bosses as a req for solo content is.

Nex†is†Life said:

How doesn't that "block" anything?

Person wants comp -> they get all the requirements besides reaper -> they can't find a team cause elistist won't take them, their friends stopped playing years ago -> can't get comp.
Solo content blocked by group content. Simple as 1+1

Nex†is†Life said:

Now this we've been over. "Only one person can use it" So is trim solo content?

Yes, but the difference is trim is more of a true comp cape, and trim is what the completionist cape should be. Comp cape now should be renamed to its original concept name Uber cape because thats what it is.

Nex†is†Life said:

What about my Achto? Only I can use it.

Again, it was designed from the start to be a reward from the group activity raids. Comp cape was not intended to be from group content at the beginning, hence why no group bosses were a comp req at its creation.
Nex†is†Life said:
Group PvM on the other hand is thriving.

For a small group of the community.

Nex†is†Life said:
Maybe it's you who has a problem getting on with people.

Speaking of ad hominems
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09-Mar-2018 05:08:16 - Last edited on 09-Mar-2018 05:10:28 by Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:

No, what I meant was, how does having reaper block other requirements being on there?

Never said that, you misread and try to twist my words so I'll explain what I meant again:
Kcin said:

Person wants comp -> they get all the requirements besides reaper -> they can't find a team cause they refuse to talk to people or find learner teams -> can't get comp.


Nex†is†Life said:

But other people can't wear your trimmed comp cape. So how does that work as a standard?

Because Trim cape actually holds reqs from nearly all realms of the game. Comp cape like you said only has a mere 68 reqs, which is nowhere near what trim has and how diverse trim is compared to comp. So thats how it works as a standard. Sure trim still is arbitarily reqed right now but its way closer than comp cape is.

Nex†is†Life said:

so... cry.

People think what you think is wrong. so... cry.

Nex†is†Life said:

If you can't find anyone, anywhere to do group content with, maybe the problem isn't everyone else?

If many people can't find anywhere to do a group content with, maybe the problem isn't the person themselves?
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09-Mar-2018 05:34:57 - Last edited on 09-Mar-2018 05:58:19 by Kcin

Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:

But other people can't wear your trim cape.

It's called standards, and what is was initially made for. Trim comp was made to be an actual comp cape, comp cape wasn't. How much more clear do I have to make that simple point?

Nex†is†Life said:

Also the number of requirements isn't as important as they aren't all equal.

Yeah leechper isn't as important as story you are right if you want to make that point.

Nex†is†Life said:

If many people can't find others to do group content

Jagex shouldn't force it in first place, problem solved. Its been shown before their grouping systems suck and people are calling for future bosses to be gwd1 style soloable but can go in groups. Key part make them soloable. I wonder why...

Nex†is†Life said:

If you're claiming that it is impossible to find PvM teams then it's because you're not looking.

Oh yeah I look, and great majority don't even consider you if you dont have bis the others make you pay.

Again I ask what does reaper itself bring to the table that makes it so worth for you to cry over it being removed because it doesn't fit.
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09-Mar-2018 14:46:42

Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
GWD2 released four such bosses, that's more than the two solo and one group boss we've had in the last couple of years.

And there is a reason why people keep wanting bosses like that. There is a reason why Solak has created a controversy about it being made.

Nex†is†Life said:

I don't have BIS. Yet I find teams.

Let me guess you also were able to start killing day 1 or very close to release.

Nex†is†Life said:

It makes people try PvM

People can try PvM without having to be forced in a group. The solo bosses do that perfectly.


Nex†is†Life said:
If none of them fit, why does one more matter?

Again you can't give a reason why reaper itself is so important to comp that it can't be replaced.
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09-Mar-2018 19:34:24

Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
there should be bosses for all team sizes

Yet they have that capability with several bosses scaling to the size of group in, no reason they cant make it soloable instead of forcing groups and then scale to group sizes. Point being group forced bosses are unnecessary.

Nex†is†Life said:

Because it stops you getting comp.


So petty, so you admit you can't give a reason. Exact reason why reaper can be released it has no place special.
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09-Mar-2018 20:34:01

Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
Why are you even playing an MMO if you hate any kind of grouping/teaming?


1) who says i hate it
2) just because its an mmo, doean't mean its only multiplayer
3)talking is multiplayer, trading etc
4)why do you keep avoiding answering the question?
[qfc id= 373-374-110-66042164]Support the small QoL updates[/qfc] Ever feel like you have a person who won't leave you alone even if you've asked many times?

09-Mar-2018 21:37:24

Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:

Why don't you do it then?

Kcin said:

Can't do it more like don't wanna deal with the elitists when trying to find a group(you might say your kind but how you're talking is full elitist talk) MQC is my goal, the cape that is closer to completionist.

Why do I not go for comp? Easy, MQC is more of a comp cape than comp, mqc shows ive palyed more of the game than comp. Sad that comp gets all the bonuses when MQC is harder to get.

Nex†is†Life said:

Listen you dense cro-magnon.

Your petty insults and attempts at ad hominems only show that you can't actually defend reaper as a comp req.

Nex†is†Life said:

At not no point did I say this was a multiplayer only game.

Really because you can't get past the multiplayer in MMORGP you forget the whole ORPG part. You can't get past your mind that there are different ways to play.

Nex†is†Life said:

Why do you keep repeating it after I've given you 10 answers you ignored.

I haven't ignored them, I have proven them wrong and you have ignored that you were shown as wrong.

So I ask again: what makes reaper so that it can't be replaced on comp? What does reaper bring to the table that nothing else can making it irreplacable. And now for a new one, why do you keep avoiding answering?
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10-Mar-2018 01:13:35 - Last edited on 10-Mar-2018 01:17:22 by Kcin

Kcin

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Lord†Kylle said:
IMP†Sparta said:
Can you guys get a room?


Ssshhh ;)
We've been silent so far.

We are not to interfere in their courting ;)


Less courting and more of entertainment for me. I find it entertaining when people can't come up with an argument to an easy question. =)

But Kylle what's your opinion about Nomad's Mirage being a suitable replacement for reaper on comp for your number 6.
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11-Mar-2018 02:38:44 - Last edited on 11-Mar-2018 02:40:12 by Kcin

Kcin

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Boldly†Rule said:
Currently you can buy xp but you can not buy bossing skills.

Buy bond ->convert to gp -> buy leech. You can. As far as I know telos/magister is the only one you cannot buy in any way.
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11-Mar-2018 04:08:46 - Last edited on 11-Mar-2018 04:09:56 by Kcin

Kcin

Kcin

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Boldly†Rule said:
Kcin said:
Boldly†Rule said:
Currently you can buy xp but you can not buy bossing skills.

Buy bond ->convert to gp -> buy leech. You can. As far as I know telos/magister is the only one you cannot buy in any way.

TH and leeching is not the same.


Buying skills, buying kills. Really whats different?
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11-Mar-2018 04:22:50

Kcin

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Qwis7 said:

This is way you keep the difficulty and no need to make a new cape that no one wants.


Or replace reaper with Nomad's Mirage, since Morvran's slayer challenge is already required it would be replacing one boss with another.
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11-Mar-2018 15:38:55

Kcin

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RunezScape said:
but is more so trying to be player adjusted to fit a play style by having the Completionist Cape be built around that play style rather than have that player try and build themselves into being that Completionist.

Yet it isn't. Group content hasn't been apart of comp ever before reaper, and removing reaper doesn't remove bossing from the reqs because of Morvran's challenge. Removing reaper would make it closer to an actual set system.

RunezScape said:

Though self imposed limitations

Not self imposed, community imposed, and doesn't fit as a completionist cape(see arguments that comp cape is no where near an actual completionsist cape so that argument is already blown out the door)

RunezScape said:

Bossing and PvM are a very large pillar of RuneScape

Yet removing reaper doesn't remove bossing from the comp cape. Morvran's challenge is still on. As well as replacing reaper with a solo bossing thing(like Nomad's mirage) also wouldn't remove bossing. Group bossing should be on trim comp like all other group reqs are already.
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11-Mar-2018 22:20:01 - Last edited on 11-Mar-2018 22:20:52 by Kcin

Kcin

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Prime†Axiom said:
argument for why PVM reqs should be stripped.

But what reason or argument is there for how much unbalance there is in the comp cape having it heavily lean on the PvM side than any other side of the game?


Prime†Axiom said:
If anything, the completionist cape should encompass all the aforementioned unlocks.


That is called Trimmed comp cape, its already in the game. Comp cape is pick and choose a few pieces of content from major areas of the game. It isn't have everything in x part of game be a req. But going off of that, it would make sense to have comp cape be a combination of all the other achievement capes into one(giving it an actual system behind it).
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12-Mar-2018 18:12:07 - Last edited on 12-Mar-2018 18:32:22 by Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
375m exp vs 218 quests vs every boss once (under an hour)
Hmmmmmm


375m xp out of 5.2b xp vs 218 quests out of all lore in the game vs every boss out of every boss

Something seems out of whack on these ratios.

I ask you again the question you can't answer, the question you ignore because you know it doesnt exist:
Kcin said:
what makes reaper so that it can't be replaced on comp? What does reaper bring to the table that nothing else can making it irreplacable. And now for a new one, why do you keep avoiding answering?
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13-Mar-2018 13:07:57 - Last edited on 13-Mar-2018 13:09:52 by Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
What do you think would be more suitable than reaper to cover PvM on comp cape?


Funny how you try and change my words. Least make them correct: 2736 levels out of 3270 levels vs 264 quests+miniquests out of 410+ lore pieces in the game vs having to beat every single boss in the game. There is still one that is out of balance compared to the others. Also a good chunk of those bosses take over 10min.

I've answered that question before, Nomad's Mirage is one example that can easily replace reaper. Morvran's challenge already covers a lot of the reaper reqs(while making them harder).

Now answer the question you've never answered
Kcin said:
what makes reaper so that it can't be replaced on comp? What does reaper bring to the table that nothing else can making it irreplacable. And now for a new one, why do you keep avoiding answering?
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13-Mar-2018 16:36:46 - Last edited on 13-Mar-2018 16:46:50 by Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
Hmmm I forgot slayer was a skill. Or tried to.

Glad to know a bossing elitist can't even remember the main PvM skill. Keep up the work.

Nex†is†Life said:

Virtual levels are, I'm not sure how to break this to you... virtual.

Reaper requirement, I'm not sure how to break this to you... is arbitrary and replaceable.

Nex†is†Life said:

Also reaper is only 26 out of over 40 bosses.

Even more reason reaper doesn't have to stay on comp cape. If it isn't all of the bosses(which is your main argument) then there isn't a reason why it can't be removed. If 14 bosses are already out of the reaper why can't the group bosses be excluded to?


Nex†is†Life said:

No, sorry, having a taste of every boss is a more fitting "completionist"

No, sorry, you get that from Morvran's task.


Nex†is†Life said:
repeat of a quest fight

And with this I know 100% you haven't ever touched Nomad's mirage.

Nex†is†Life said:

Morvran's challenge is only 10 bosses, so worse than reaper

having a taste of every boss is a more fitting "completionist". 10 bosses is a taste, arraxor is a taste of high level bosses, nomad is a taste of high level solo bossing too.

You still haven't given a reason why reaper is special that can't be fit to another req.
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13-Mar-2018 18:00:44 - Last edited on 13-Mar-2018 18:04:36 by Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
Main PvM skill? lol no.

PvM: Player vs
MONSTER
what do you do in slayer? Kill MONSTERS. It is a skill all about PvM.

Nex†is†Life said:

hmmm where did these come from

You aint making yourself look better, because now you are just showing you don't know the mechanics of the fight.

Nex†is†Life said:

You've had a taste of Grandmaster quests, right?

I'm not the one using the argument of "having a taste". So your point is moot and has not value to the debate because you are just making fun of your own arguments.

Nex†is†Life said:

trying every boss?

Contradicting yourself much?
Nex†is†Life said:
Also reaper is only 26 out of over 40 bosses.


Still no reason why reaper is so special when Morvran's already has you going to the bosses getting your argument's taste of bossing.
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14-Mar-2018 01:23:08

Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
Did I say Slayer wasn't PvM

What other skill can you train only by killing monsters? Combat skills there are methods that invovle no monsters at all. Hence slayer is the Main PvM skill. Besides the point anyway.


Nex†is†Life said:

Anyway proves you wrong

Yet it doesn't because you know nothing about Nomad's mirage as it has different mechanics than in the quest.


Nex†is†Life said:
I said you should have a "taste" of every boss

Nex†is†Life said:

Also reaper is only 26 out of over 40 bosses.

Something is still off. So does reaper give a taste of every boss or does it not? Make up your mind.

Nex†is†Life said:

that aren't conventional are excluded,

So whats wrong with unconventional forced group bosses being excluded too? Penance king already is. Soul Reaper already does it too.

Still no reason why reaper is so special that it can't be replaced.

SandyHorizon said:
music tracks unlocked

How did I know someone would try and pull this bad example up. Music tracks can easily be moved to unlock in the lobby of said minigame or area. Hell how many music tracks are unlocked by just logging into the game for the first time because they were part of holiday events.

SandyHorizon said:

they do the very basics to get it... are a walk in the park.

Excluding group bosses would be the very basics too, and tell me more about how paying to leech a group boss is soooooo hard

Just because if jagex removes group bossing from comp doesn't mean that bossing is all of a sudden not apart of comp
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14-Mar-2018 17:57:18 - Last edited on 14-Mar-2018 18:12:52 by Kcin

Kcin

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SandyHorizon said:

You made a false claim.

I did not as, a music track is not group content, and the fact that some(if they weren't auto unlocked) would be impossible to get(sometimes) make that a moot point as there is no actual content behind a music track it can be unlocked from anywhere if Jagex deems it so. So yes It was a bad example. If you can prove that the soundtrack is undoubtedly tied to the minigame(as in you can't play it without the music) then it would be group content. But seeing as it is, just because it is connected geographically doesn't mean its connected by mechanics.


SandyHorizon said:

You left off the part where I said those basics include doing things we don't enjoying doing.

I left it off as it has no standing to what you are saying. Very basic is a very bad term to use. As basic would be solo, basic would be 1 giant mole kill, basic is etc etc

SandyHorizon said:

Why are you asking me about leeching as if I said anything about it?

Talk about me leaving things out:
Kcin said:

SandyHorizon said:

are a walk in the park.

tell me more about how paying to leech a group boss is soooooo hard

You said most bosses on Morvran's challenge are easy. Well so is a group boss where you leech and 100% do nothing for the kill. So tell me which one is actually harder the one you have to actually do yourself, or the leech where you do absolutely nothing.


SandyHorizon said:

Anything shy of those things is nowhere near completionist

If you have just the comp cape and nothing else, you aren't anywhere near a completionist. So what point are you trying to make here? Leaving group bosses out of comp doesn't destroy comp at all. There is a reason why there is a HLF thread that is titled True trim highscore(as it requires everything in game or nearly all)
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14-Mar-2018 21:17:07 - Last edited on 14-Mar-2018 21:19:22 by Kcin

Kcin

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Prime†Axiom said:

It's not heavily lenient towards PVM.

You have to do an unproportionate amount of PvM(some even repeating content in PvM compared to the ratios of the other areas of the game. So yes it is actually.

Prime†Axiom said:

Comp is just a participation trophy.


In that case what is so terrible about removing group bosses or reaper in whole (knowing bossing stays on the comp cape with reaper's removal).
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15-Mar-2018 00:44:11

Kcin

Kcin

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Prime†Axiom said:

1 of each boss is too much?

You don't have to do all skilling activities, you don't have to do any PvP, you don't have to get all the lore, so why should you have to do all the bosses?

Unproportionate
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15-Mar-2018 00:52:16

Kcin

Kcin

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Prime†Axiom said:

You don't need hardmode Nomad.
1

You don't have to do 100% enrage Telos, and which is where Telos really begins.
2

You don't need to obtain any pets.
3

You don't need any raid feats.
4

You don't need any titles.
5

You don't need any speed kills.
6

You can leech any group boss.
7

1) Quest reward(lore category)
2)You don't need 200ms in skills (which is where the skilling "challenge" really begins)
3)You dont need any skilling pets
4) See number 2 and you can apply virtual levels in here as well
5) Don't need titles from other parts of the game either
6) No time requirements on skilling or quests
7) Same reason why removing them makes no difference to if they are or aren't on the cape

Prime†Axiom said:

In terms of the PVM content available, reaper barely scratches the surface.

If it barely scratches the surface whats 4 more bosses not included going to do that makes it sooo horrible for it to be removed?

Ahh the weak argument shows having to start correcting grummer
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15-Mar-2018 01:11:00 - Last edited on 15-Mar-2018 01:11:19 by Kcin

Kcin

Kcin

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Prime†Axiom said:
1) Is corp a quest reward too? Let's not be difficult here. Hardmode Nomad is a boss.
2) You do realize telos goes up to 4000% enrage right? And that there are variations of the warden title at 500%, 1000%, and 4000% right? 100% enrage is just when you unlock phase 5, which is where the full boss fight is finally unlocked. You just compared an entry level PVM achievement to the hard cap of skills.
3) I mean, if you disregard quest unlocked pets... I guess.
4) You do realize some raid feats are as simple as not using the gongs after repairing them....like some teams already do? Again, comparing this to the hard-cap of a skill. I dunno what to say.

1)isn't treated as a boss (not on reaper clearly)
2)You do realize that total xp goes up to 5.2b xp right? And there are variations of skilling milestones at 99, 120, 200m right? Level 99 is ust when you unlock all the skill. (strange how easily that fits with your statement)
4)You do realize some of the lore unlocks are as simple as picking up a book that people run by already do? (again how easily yours fits to another area)

Prime†Axiom said:

Because the completionist cape has BIS stats and is a symbol of prestige. The fact that the reqs are easy in comparison to real PVM achievements is not a reason to remove them.

Yeah it just gives more reason to why Group bosses which are the top tier ones on level with some of those achievements is reason to remove them as the things around them difficulty(as much as you can say a leech is hard) wise. You guys keep stating things that aren't on comp that are pvm reqs so why is it so hard to understand that group bosses can fit into that group without anything changing.
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15-Mar-2018 01:36:31

Kcin

Kcin

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Prime†Axiom said:
It's a boss that is not on reaper, but a boss nonetheless.

If you want to keep calling it a boss, then that just gives another reason why group bosses being off reaper wouldn't be a big deal

Prime†Axiom said:

2) You do realize there's less people with gold warden than 5.4b total right?

You do realize the point I was making?

Prime†Axiom said:

3) So? Are quests not a part of the game, and required for comp?

Quests are, and yes required for comp. Lore is part of the game, and not required for comp(for vast majority of it)

Prime†Axiom said:

4) I am not the one complaining about comp reqs.

Yet you are? Complaining about reaper(group bosses) getting removed without changing stats is a form of complaining about comp reqs.

Nex†is†Life said:
And you can get 99 Slayer without ever attacking an NPC

Using reward xp isn't training a skill and doesn't count for training a skill. You are just getting xp in that case.

Nex†is†Life said:

I don't need to.

When talking about a certain subject you do need to know what you are talking about.

Nex†is†Life said:

Out of any potential PvM requirement, reaper is the broadest.

Morvran is still broad, reaper doesn't hold all the bosses(or it does I still cant get a clear answer out of you) so leaving off 4 more bosses won't do anything to harm it.

Nex†is†Life said:

What is unconventional about group bosses?

Compared to the majority of the bosses(which you can solo) they are unconventional. Generally done is soloable bosses, group bosses dont conform to that so are unconventional.

Nex†is†Life said:

Ok, replaced with what?

I've given you replacements and there are plenty more, you just have to actually go do things.
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15-Mar-2018 12:08:44

Kcin

Kcin

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SandyHorizon said:

You can't even start a game of BA without other players

But can you play the game without music? And trouble brewing you were able to get the track solo before.

SandyHorizon said:

Lastly, you've stated over and over and over again, how easy it is to leech 1 kill group bosses, why not just get it done

Clearly you can't read what I've stated over and over. The elitist, the scammers(those who make you pay), the people who don't accept new players to bosses after years are the ones who make this req anywhat hard, and are the reason I don't do group bosses. Since my friends and the people I play with have either moved to Ironman mode(couldn't ever wonder why they wouldn't want to play group stuff hmmmm) or aren't high enough level to do the boss themselves, or just don't care about it.
The point is leeching the boss to get a kill isn't a kill so why not remove it since people can already skip it? Replacing it with something you can't leech shows a lot more than having a leechable boss on.
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15-Mar-2018 12:11:42 - Last edited on 15-Mar-2018 12:22:38 by Kcin

Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
Regardless of alternate training methods, you're saying Slayer is "the main PvM skill" of the game which isn't true

There are ways to gain combat xp in range, melee, and magic skills without fighting. There is no way to get slayer xp without fighting a monster. Reward xp(lamps, etc) are not training. It is the only skill where you have to fight PvM monsters to train it. This is off topic so why do you continue to talk about this when I cleared up what I meant already?

Nex†is†Life said:

So why are you talking about group bosses?

Because I am not talking about the mechanics of the bosses(besides the group required). I am stating that they can be leeched(which everyone knows) and have no actual prestige compared to solo achievements. I am talking about them as a req on reaper. Not the bosses themselves. How can you debate if you don't know what the other person is even talking about?

Nex†is†Life said:

Actually it's 4 solo only, 8 soloable/group bosses and 6 group bosses less than reaper.

but it does align to what you've said reaper does: Nex†is†Life said:
having a taste of every boss
, Nex†is†Life said:
Also reaper is only 26 out of over 40 bosses.

So reaper doesn't fight every boss and gives a taste of every boss, so therefore Morvran's gives a taste of every boss too.

Nex†is†Life said:

Group bossing and raids are unconventional

"un∑con∑ven∑tion∑al
ˌənkənˈven(t)SH(ə)n(ə)l/Submit
adjective
not based on or conforming to what is generally done"
All bosses prior to the first group only bosses(so the majority of bosses in game) are soloable. Group bosses are not soloable. They do not conform to what is generally done(soloable bosses). In runescape by definition they are unconventional.
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15-Mar-2018 17:52:59

Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
Sure, but that doesn't change slayer being a support skill.

Again never said it wasn't, what i said is that it is the main skill for PvM without alternative training methods. Again its besides the point.

Nex†is†Life said:

so whats the difference?

No you talked about mechanics: Nex†is†Life said:
a repeat of a quest fight
Which means that the fights are the same in and post quest, which they aren't. Talking about mechanics not the req on that comment.

Nex†is†Life said:

So there are 5 Legionaires, 2 DKs, 1 KQ you don't have to kill for reaper because they are tracked together. Not really a big deal since they are copy pasted.

So there are 5 GWD generals, 5GWD2 Generals, 2Black dragon bosses, you have to kill for reaper. Not really a big difference between them since they are copy pasted. If you want to use that logic. Reaper is already missing bosses from its rosters losing the group bosses won't change a thing about that.

Nex†is†Life said:

that soloable bosses are often killed in groups

Doesn't change the fact they are soloable.

Nex†is†Life said:

first group only bosses were released into a completely different combat system - pre-EoC.

They were still able to be entered solo, you can't do that with the group bosses now. So difference it, they are still soloable.
So Group bosses still stand unconventional.
Nex†is†Life said:
arrogant prat copy-pasting dictionary definitions. We get it, you need a dictionary, the rest of us went to school.


Wow, some more ad hominem because you didn't know the meaning of the word yourself. I stated the definition for you since you clearly did not know it:
Nex†is†Life said:

Group bossing and raids are unconventional ... rofl
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16-Mar-2018 13:13:19

Kcin

Kcin

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SandyHorizon said:

We are discussing comp cape requirements not playability.

So no you don't need to have the song to play it, so the song is not linked to the game itself but its location, so it isn't group content.

SandyHorizon said:

For years, you needed a partner for a few quests and that was only removed a year or so ago.

You said it yourself, Jagex realized the mistake and removed the group aspect. Same can be done about reaper.

SandyHorizon said:

Should being on the winning team at CW be removed from the Ardy task set because it forces you to be in a group?

Different capes, different sets of requirements. You can't compare apples to oranges.

SandyHorizon said:

Lets not pretend that solo bosses are untouchable when it comes to getting around them; there are a lot of people who have friends beat solo bosses or pay people do them.

The difference is Leeching isn't against the game rules, what you described is.

SandyHorizon said:

revamp every non-solo requirement.

I see no problem with that on the comp cape. Comp needs to be revamped anyways.
BTW, comp reqs have been changed before.
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16-Mar-2018 13:13:29 - Last edited on 16-Mar-2018 13:29:09 by Kcin

Kcin

Kcin

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SandyHorizon said:
unlocks for comp

Trouble brewing song, you state needs a group to get it. I got it with only me.(was possible when i got it 3 years ago)

SandyHorizon said:

Nope, only thing I said is they removed it.

Why would they remove it if it isn't a mistake? History shows Jagex doesn't do it for whiners really(MTX)

SandyHorizon said:

Nope, not comparing apples to oranges

Then yes lets compare the reqs to wear bronze to the reqs to wear comp too. Since that isn't apple to oranges if yours isn't.

SandyHorizon said:

Good point, but it still happens.

With the possibility of being banned/account reset. So not a good excuse. Leechers have no harm against them in any way.

SandyHorizon said:

comp cape holder without ever having touched new content? Whatever.


Ya'll making it seem like I'm the only one who wants this Lol. This wouldn't be an issue this big if it was only me fyi. Jagex wouldn't have even brought up changing reaper if it was only me so stop the bs right here. Group bossers are in the minority of this game. But lets get onto this point:
Nomad's mirage, slayer codex, 90%(over exaggerated) of meno, PvP, 90% of ports, The horrors, deep sea fishing, clue scrolls, stalker creatures, lost grove, inv batch 2, shattered worlds etc are some of the newer updates(there are plenty more that can be added to the list) that comp never touches. So tell me how are comp cape holders touching these new pieces of content(by getting their cape)?
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16-Mar-2018 14:14:38 - Last edited on 16-Mar-2018 14:14:56 by Kcin

Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
But it's not the main skill for PvM, >90% of PvM isn't has nothing to do with Slayer.

Done trying to explain what I meant(which was clear) to you since it is off topic.

Nex†is†Life said:

Legionaires are actually copy pasted

So they all require the same key? They all have the same exact mechanics? They are all the exact same from pixel to pixel?

Nex†is†Life said:

Sure, but group bossing

Group bossing =/= group bosses. One has the option to be soloed, the other does not.

Nex†is†Life said:

You can enter group bosses solo

I can't enter rago with one person, I cant enter raids with one person.

Nex†is†Life said:

Looks like group (only) bosses are a part of the game now.

Still unconventional compared to all the bosses that can be soloed and the pattern before they were released. Do i need to get that dictionary for you again?

Nex†is†Life said:

disagree on whether it applies.

I gave you the definition, it fits the definition. It applies you cant argue that if you know the definition.

Nex†is†Life said:

That's not ad hominem because I challenged your points

Nex†is†Life said:
\you don't need to be an
arrogant prat
copy-pasting dictionary definitions.
We get it, you need a dictionary, the rest of us went to school.


Yep those highlighed parts are def not an attack on a person, they are tote mcgotes about a point in an argument. Maybe you should look it up?
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16-Mar-2018 14:53:41

Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:

Did I say they were the same boss or did I say they were copy-pasted?

Saying copy-pasted means they are the same, and the mechanics are actually different from boss to boss fyi.

Nex†is†Life said:

Yet group bossing is the reason group bosses exist.

So you admit group bosses =/= group bossing. Good to get that out of the way


Wrong and wrong. Kcin said:
When talking about a certain subject you do need to know what you are talking about.


Nex†is†Life said:
is null and void.

Yeah thats not how it works. They had the ability to make them blocked off from solo attempts, but they didn't. That isn't a different game.

Nex†is†Life said:

It doesn't fit the definition if your convention is false.

Yet it isn't. it fits the definition word by word.

Nex†is†Life said:

is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby an argument is rebutted by attacking the character

Nex†is†Life said:
arrogant prat

We get it, you need a dictionary, the rest of us went to school.

That fits.

Nex†is†Life said:

other attribute of the person making the argument

Nex†is†Life said:

We get it, you need a dictionary, the rest of us went to school.

Fits again

Nex†is†Life said:

Ad hominem isn't just a personal attack.

Wrong, it is a personal attack in place of actually looking at the argument. To bad you can't understand the definition.

T Olvana said:

You can.

Ahh so they have figured out(again) group limited bosses = a bad idea because people want to solo them huh...
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16-Mar-2018 17:00:53 - Last edited on 16-Mar-2018 17:21:28 by Kcin

Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
A large amount of them was copy pasted I didn't say they were exactly the same

Saying copy paste is synonymous to saying exactly the same.

Nex†is†Life said:

Yep never denied that. Just waiting for you to admit that both are a part of the game.

One has existed for 16 years, while the other has only for 5 years. The 16 year old one is the conventional one that most bosses are based on(can be done solo, or in groups)

Nex†is†Life said:

Nothing is blocked off from solo attempts. There are just mechanics that require multiple people now.

I'll just let this be, and maybe if you stare at it long enough you'll figure out what you said is wrong.

Nex†is†Life said:

Nope, because no convention prior to EoC can be applied.

EoC only affected combat, how to enter a boss is not combat. it can be applied.

Nex†is†Life said:

The cap on the Rago starting damage was lowered to allow duo/trios.


Kcin said:

Ahh so they have figured out(again) group limited bosses = a bad idea because people want to solo them huh...

I wonder why they are changing all these group required things. Maybe its like they failed at what the community wanted. Hmmmmmm


You said it right here: Nex†is†Life said:

personal attack I posted
personal attack on me instead of on the argument. If it wasn't an ad hominem you wouldn't have personally attacked me at all.

But none of this still changes the fact that if you remove reaper from comp you still get a taste of bossing.
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16-Mar-2018 17:53:26 - Last edited on 16-Mar-2018 18:11:32 by Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:

Copying, pasting and changing

Makes it not copy pasted and makes it a new thing. I could copy paste a whole book and change 1 chapter, doesn't make it the same book.

Nex†is†Life said:

The 16 year old one doesn't exist now

Man someone should go tell the KBD that is in game currently that he shouldn't exist anymore according to you.

Nex†is†Life said:

Actually fighting the boss is combat :)

Yeah so you admit entering the boss is not combat. Good to know you are contradicting yourself again. The fact that they have to change how a boss is entered shows that group bossing is not as popular as you think and solo bossing is much more.

Nex†is†Life said:

Nothing was changed from being group required.

Changing the amount of damage someone takes is changing how being forced into a group to split the damage is changing how it is required.

But again none of this still changes the fact that if you remove reaper from comp you still get a taste of bossing.
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16-Mar-2018 18:33:17 - Last edited on 16-Mar-2018 18:52:47 by Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
Ok go publish that book.

You do realize what you just said just makes you agree with my point right?

Nex†is†Life said:

A convention based on out of date source material does not exist.

Oh, so GWD2 bosses are out of date as well? They follow the same exact boss format as KBD and GWD1, any amount of people can enter and kill the boss. Not a minimum amount of people.

Nex†is†Life said:

Ok quote where I said entering bosses is combat.

Nex†is†Life said:
any number of players being able to defeat a boss is pre-EoC and therefore moot.

By even brining of Evolution of COMBAT in an argument about how you enter a boss room and saying its moot because of the evolution of COMBAT just shows you stating the entering the boss is combat.


Nex†is†Life said:

prove anything to do with solo bossing.

Same fact as with soul reaper. The community clearly doesn't like group bosses as much as people think the fact that they have to make them now so that people are able to solo them(removing the group minimum) shows that. So that is against your arguments that Group bossing is soooooo popular.

Nex†is†Life said:

By your logic you should only need one 99 because you have had a taste of skilling.

Correction: by your logic. You are the one saying that reaper gives you a taste of all bosses Nex†is†Life said:
having a taste of every boss
when Nex†is†Life said:
reaper is only 26 out of over 40 bosses.
So if 26 bosses gives the taste of bossing, 10 bosses (with increasing handicaps) should also give the taste of bossing.

But again none of this still changes the fact that if you remove reaper from comp you still
have to do some bossing.
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16-Mar-2018 21:51:56

Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
No it doesn't. Please stop being ...

Ah another ad hominem, is that your go to?

Nex†is†Life said:

EoC

What part of Nex†is†Life said:

Ok quote where I said entering bosses is combat.
did you already forget you said? Combat doesn't have anything to do with entering a boss's room.

Nex†is†Life said:

So you're saying entering the boss room shoudn't be any different to how it was 10+

Players want things to be able to be soloed(or the option being there) look at soul reaper, look at rago's change. So the community is saying it.

Nex†is†Life said:

Tonnes of people do like group bossing

Group bosses are the minority here.

Nex†is†Life said:

They haven't changed any group boss to make it soloable.

Rago changed from having to tank 50k damage(impossible) to 12.5k damage(possible)

Nex†is†Life said:

I'm saying comp should require all bosses.

Removal of reaper wouldn't have an affect on that at all since not all bosses are on the comp anyway, so removing reaper's extras don't do anything that isn't already done to the cape. Besides weren't you just complaining that there are bosses that are "copy-paste".
Nex†is†Life said:
and do all quests

Yet you don't do all lore...

But I say it again and I will continue because you can't even come up with a reason because none of this changes the fact that if you remove reaper from comp you still have to do some bossing.
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16-Mar-2018 23:22:42

Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:

the change

The change that allows people into vorago(say reaper is taken off) allows solo people to get the music. Also the fact that it is now possible to try to solo shows that people wanted the attempt. If it was only for duo min they would have made the lp damage differently.

Nex†is†Life said:

that it doesn't really matter anyway.

So the "removal" of 5 bosses doesn't matter? But the removal of ~4 does? Logic.

Nex†is†Life said:

Removal of reaper wouldn't have an affect on amount of bosses required?

I said it wouldn't affect the bossing req.(to make simpler for you:It still has bossing) Morvran's challenge is still there. FYI that has bosses with handicaps.

Nex†is†Life said:

But doing "some bossing" isn't be the requirement.

Currently it is:
Nex†is†Life said:
reaper is only 26 out of over 40 bosses.

I would say 26/40+ is only some. 10/40+(with handicaps) is no different than 26 in terms of a req like this.

Nex†is†Life said:

Or by this reasoning you should only need 50 in all stats because you still have to do "some skilling"

I like how you are fighting your own logic at this point. Never have I said or used the logic as mine for only some bossing, notice how I keep quoting you on this:Nex†is†Life said:
having a taste of every boss
I am using your logic against you. And besides if you are talking about max stuff, you do only do some skilling, you dont require "120" in every skill, and you aren't required for 5.4b xp.
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17-Mar-2018 11:34:13 - Last edited on 17-Mar-2018 15:15:24 by Kcin

Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
Again proving you have no clue

It has been made to the possibility of being soloed. The group minimum req being removed. So please keep telling me how I don't know what i'm talking about.

Nex†is†Life said:

It's that they are essentially the same boss.

Then the same can be said about all the GWD1 bosses. And with that logic QBD is the same as telos because they have phases and are solo only bosses. Also do you not know what the ~ means? it means for your education approximately meaning more or less.

Nex†is†Life said:

Ok let's take off 100 quests.

Why take off even more lore there is already 200+ lore pieces of content not on the cape. (and 200 is a lot more off than a mere 20ish)

Nex†is†Life said:

It seems to me that 26>10.

But if 26 is a taste of all bosses, why isn't 10. By your logic if 26 bosses is a taste 10 is too.

Nex†is†Life said:

No you aren't because I didn't say some bossing, I said all bosses.

Yeah you called doing reaper(26 bosses) a taste of all bosses.
Nex†is†Life said:

[in regard to reaper vs nomad's mirage] having a taste of every boss is a more fitting "completionist" requirement than a repeat of a quest fight and leaving all those stones unturned.

In that same post you stated Nex†is†Life said:
Also reaper is only 26 out of over 40 bosses.


So with your logic your 50 levels in all skills would be the equivalent req of reaper for comp.

BTW are you so low that you just had to do a whole separate post for flame?
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17-Mar-2018 15:29:38 - Last edited on 17-Mar-2018 15:33:47 by Kcin

Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
You don't know what you're talking about. It is impossible to solo.

Really cause you are the one who is confused. I am talking about how it is no longer required to be in a group to join(you can go in solo) I wonder why that was changed, maybe because people dont like group bosses as much as you say. It might be impossible to solo with what we have on this date, but who knows in the future. At one point people though gwd bosses weren't possible to solo and now we steamroll over them. People thought KK wouldn't be able to be soloed, he can get soloed. Etc. As jagex change things.

Nex†is†Life said:

Legios have shared values, mechanics and graphics bar one minor graphical change and one unique mechanic each.

GWD 1 generals have shared mechanics and one unique mechanic each. Same boss, different skins in your book.

Nex†is†Life said:

Why take off even more requirements?

unconventional, community asks for it, it doesnt make sense in the first place all things we've talked about and you haven't been able to rebute without an ad hominem.

Nex†is†Life said:

I didn't say reaper was all bosses

Nex†is†Life said:
Kcin said:
Nomad's Mirage is one example that can easily replace reaper. Morvran's challenge already covers a lot of the reaper reqs(while making them harder).

No, sorry, having a taste of every boss is a more fitting "completionist" requirement than a repeat of a quest fight and leaving all those stones unturned. Morvran's challenge is only 10 bosses, so worse than reaper.

Context is pretty clear. You are clearly talking about reaper, you state reaper gives a taste of every boss.

Nex†is†Life said:

Character limit, also wasn't on topic.

Yeah it wasn't on topic, it was flame. AKA didnt need to be posted at all.
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17-Mar-2018 16:30:33

Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
phase 1 requires 2

People also thought KK(green attack) required 2 people.

Nex†is†Life said:

Entirely different

Yet if GWD 1 bosses aren't the same, then legions aren't the same. There is as many differences between legions and between gwd1.

Nex†is†Life said:

Not unconventional as I have already stated

Yet you haven't actually made any points to state how they aren't unconventional besides trying to bring EoC into this which EoC can't make any point on.

Nex†is†Life said:

"having a taste of every boss"
Yeah, no.

Exactly

Nex†is†Life said:

Don't flame me

Yet I haven't.
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18-Mar-2018 14:00:05 - Last edited on 18-Mar-2018 14:01:55 by Kcin

Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:

it is impossible to do alone

Wow, where did you get a crystal ball to where you can see the future

Nex†is†Life said:

What DO they have in common?

They share common drops(gs blades, hilt, armour just in different skins in your terms), they all have just one special style move. In your book that is enough to count as copy paste.

Nex†is†Life said:

Actually it can
't

Combat has nothing to do with how you enter a boss. EG. Evolution of
COMBAT
has nothing to do with how you enter a boss. Simple as 1+1=2

Nex†is†Life said:

Nice out of context. Let's finish... Nex†is†Life said:
Kcin said:
Nomad's Mirage is one example that can easily replace reaper. Morvran's challenge already covers a lot of the reaper reqs(while making them harder).

No, sorry,
having a taste of every boss is a more fitting "completionist"
requirement than a repeat of a quest fight and leaving all those stones unturned. Morvran's challenge is only 10 bosses, so worse than
reaper
.
I didn't say reaper met this.


You sure? Re-read that highlighted part. This is your full context.

But again none of this still changes the fact that if you remove reaper from comp you still get a taste of bossing.
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18-Mar-2018 15:51:23 - Last edited on 18-Mar-2018 15:54:48 by Kcin

Kcin

Kcin

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Prime†Axiom said:
If it isn't a big deal, then why remove it?

Clearly I said it wasn't a big deal to remove it.

Prime†Axiom said:
Wouldn't allowing people to get comp without experiencing more than 50% of the game be highly counter-intuitive?

For the hundredth time
removing group bosses/reaper from comp does not remove bossing from comp.


Prime†Axiom said:

really that hard and doesn't require you to kill every boss in the game.

Since it is already easy, and doesn't require you to kill every boss, Morvran's checks that off so reaper can be removed without removing that point on comp.

Kcin said:

Are quests not lore?

Lore is a category, quests are part of that category. So are lore books/murals/all other lore content. I'm sorry, but by getting 120 slayer you are completing a ton of the PvM content in the game(specially if you get that lore piece of content that isn't on comp called slayer codex). Morvran's task also "requires you to scratch the surface of a wide pool."

Kcin said:
Being perfectly happy with the comp requirements counts as a complaint?

That isn't, but with how defensive/upset you are getting about points being given as to why removing reaper doesn't change comp much is.
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18-Mar-2018 16:28:12

Kcin

Kcin

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Prime†Axiom said:
And I am saying if it's not a big deal

Okay. I'll make it as simple as possible: removing group bosses from reaper is not a big deal. I am not saying reaper isn't a big deal. I am saying removing it isn't a big deal. Did i get it through to you? Reaper being removed isn't a big deal, not reaper itself.

Prime†Axiom said:

Don't cherry pick my statements out of context.

I don't I condense the quote to show where I am commenting, then comment on the whole thing. Im not sure about you but 14 more bosses(some being repeats of what is on Morvran) isn't half of the PvM content in the game. We have been over this. Group bosses are not hard content: take nex's bragging about having a cb 60(somethin) leech off him.
Prime†Axiom said:

What exactly are you trying to achieve by pointing out the slayer codex

Prove your false claim of bossing is the only(or the majority of it) pvm in the game wrong.

Prime†Axiom said:

Yes it is PVM content

I have no clue what this rambling has to do with what I said. So if you could please rephrase it to actual respond to what I said I will acknowledge otherwise it stays rambling.

Prime†Axiom said:

Disagreeing with your suggestions =/= complaining about ingame content.

Spamming doesn't make it correct. The fact that you can't accpet the fact that removing just the group bosses doesn't affect comp, nor would removing reaper remove bossing from comp. If I am complaining about reaper being on comp you are just as much complaining about the thought of it being removed.
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18-Mar-2018 17:09:08

Kcin

Kcin

Posts: 13,684Opal Posts by user Forum Profile RuneMetrics Profile
Prime†Axiom said:
So you are saying that reaper is
n't
a big deal, but removing it isn't?

Removing reaper isn't a big deal. Reaper isn't a big deal, its just redundant, unconventional, and quite frank if group bosses can be toggled off in soul reaper they shouldn't be on the title.

Prime†Axiom said:

You were cherry picking out of context.

Not cherry picking, still rambling.

Prime†Axiom said:

Bossing is the majority of PVM.
Answer these question:
1)How many bosses are in the game
2)How many slayer creatures are there in the game
3)How many creatures are in the game that aren't in the other 2.
If and only if 1 is bigger than 2 and 3 is it the majority.

Prime†Axiom said:

Slayer codex is a small part of PVM

Because it answers 2 of the top questions. 151 monsters in the codex, ~40 bosses.
Tell me how is 151 smaller than 40?


Prime†Axiom said:

I am not complaining about comp reqs.
Nor am I

I think comp reqs are fine.
Yet they aren't

You are complaining about comp reqs.
Then so are you

I am arguing with you for why they are fine.
And I am proving why they aren't


Nex†is†Life said:
Your reading comprehension is absolutely terrible.

Ahh more attempts at the flaming ad hominem you are coming to be known for.
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18-Mar-2018 18:41:28 - Last edited on 18-Mar-2018 18:42:14 by Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
Vorago will never be a solo boss.

Man I really do want a crystal ball like you. Don't be rude share the info on where to get it

Nex†is†Life said:

"special style move" Kril has prayer smash, Kree has pushback,
Zil has her enrage, Gra just smahes hard so he is the base that the others were a copy of and added on(in your logic)

Nex†is†Life said:

Could you be more pendantic?

Ahh another ad hominem. It is a terrible go to for real. At least try and think of a counter.
It is spelled pandemic if you are going to try and insult me atleast get the spelling correct


Nex†is†Life said:

you're walking into a boss room.

you are walking not in combat. Is walking to the grand exchange now all of a sudden combat?

Nex†is†Life said:
Not ad hominem

Good to know I can just start calling it flaming. Keep lowering yourself please. Makes it more fun to show you how wrong you are.
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18-Mar-2018 19:19:02 - Last edited on 18-Mar-2018 19:20:57 by Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
I'll come back in 10 years if RS is still up and say I told you so.

So is that a no on giving me your dealer?

Nex†is†Life said:

Just ditch the strawman already.

It aint a strawman it actually is called reductio ad absurdum.

Again I haven't been flaming you. I haven't said you specifically are x. I have used your own words against you though.

Nex†is†Life said:
You're walking into combat.

1) do you really have to spam now? your 3 tiny posts can easily be put into 1 so you aren't spamming the thread with 1 post turned into 3.
2)You're walking, you aren't in combat.
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18-Mar-2018 19:41:47 - Last edited on 18-Mar-2018 19:45:04 by Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
your fallacial argument holds no ground.

Actually for your education since you don't know what it actually means:" is a form of argument which attempts either to disprove a statement by showing it inevitably leads to a ridiculous, absurd, or impractical conclusion, or to prove one by showing that if it were not true, the result would be absurd or impossible."
It isn't a fallacy.

Nex†is†Life said:

to flame someone.

Your misunderstandings of what I post aren't flame.

Nex†is†Life said:

Nope, definately meant pedantic.

Really, thats sad then cause you initially posted:Nex†is†Life said:
pendantic?

Which isn't a word.

Nex†is†Life said:
Here is you being pedantic.

Actually it isn't. You want to know why? Because my argument is that
WALKING IS NOT COMBAT
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18-Mar-2018 19:56:48 - Last edited on 18-Mar-2018 20:05:07 by Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
It was an attempt at that argument.

Actually I used your argument of copy-paste. As you can tell it worked out well because of how upset you got because it was so absurd to you.

Nex†is†Life said:

I suggest you update to the lastest version of Oxford's English dictionary. You will find Pendantic under Pendant.

So were you trying to go for this then:
"pe∑dan∑tic
pəˈdan(t)ik/Submit
adjective
of or like a pedant." Because that is so much more ludicrous than I initially thought.
Also Pendantic, doesn't exist as a word. Not in oxford, dictionary.com, Merriam.
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18-Mar-2018 20:28:23

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:

Odd it's right here?

Odd, you were misspelling it:Nex†is†Life said:

Pendantic

Nex†is†Life said:
pendantic

Nex†is†Life said:
Pe
n
dantic


But again, when you are talking about walking, stating walking in the argument that walking isn't combat isn't pedantic at all.

I didn't bait you into anything. I used a reductio ad absurdum argument against you, it wasn't my fault your own logic made you upset.

But we diverge from the original topic.
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18-Mar-2018 22:02:13 - Last edited on 18-Mar-2018 22:11:09 by Kcin

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EllingerMain said:

Nothing has still changed 3 1/2 years later, why are we beating the skeleton of a dead horse all of a sudden? Not to sound rude or anything.


The reason the discussion came back up is from what OP posted Jagex said
Lord†Kylle said:
As late as todays runescape survey twitch stream, the jmods were struggling to come up with the perfect solution to the future of the comp cape's overall idea, and admitted there might be no solution to make everybody happy.

With reaper being the biggest issue they are seeming to face.
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18-Mar-2018 22:36:01

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
Yes if you could respond to my posts instead of pointing out my spelling we could have a discussion.

You are the one who derailed it, I've been answering all things you've said about the OP. Not my fault you ignore what proves you wrong.

Nex†is†Life said:
Because of Solak.

From what the OP has said their discussion isn't only because of Solak, they want to make bosses that only the top of the top can do.
Lord†Kylle said:

The reason the jmods are taking this up now on live streams, is that they say they wanna create even harder bosses in time, targeted at the top 5 % pvm'ers in game
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19-Mar-2018 17:55:40 - Last edited on 19-Mar-2018 17:56:57 by Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
ignored most the things I said and instead cherry picked quotes

Actually wrong. I read everything, I respond to everything, and only trim quotes for character count and so that people know what I am referencing and not "cherry picking".

Nex†is†Life said:

Yes, the reason reaper could be removed is because Solak

Solak isn't the only reason and I stated why with a quote from the OP.

Nex†is†Life said:

As reaper is on comp currently they must believe that existing bosses, including group bosses, are a reasonable requirement.

Just because it is on comp doesn't mean they are reasonable requirements for comp, or no comp req would have been changed ever.
Livid farm, harmony moss for 2


Nex†is†Life said:

Group bosses are not unconventional

Been over this, you haven't been able to prove it wrong, using eoc isn't an example you can use to prove it wrong.

Nex†is†Life said:

bosses open to everyone

yeah except for the solo players
Ironmen
(which they had to change)
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19-Mar-2018 20:06:27 - Last edited on 19-Mar-2018 20:07:55 by Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
Nice

Please read before you comment:
Kcin said:

Actually wrong. I read everything, I respond to everything, and only trim quotes for character count and so that people know what I am referencing and not "cherry picking".

Whether out of context or cherry picking whatever you want to call it, I don't.

Nex†is†Life said:

reduced was that they were a mindless grind

Same can be said about having to kill repeat bosses, and the leeching bosses. It just goes to show though, you can't accept when youre wrong. You just have to make an excuse(even if its poor)
Nex†is†Life said:

As reaper is on comp currently they must believe that existing bosses, ..., are a reasonable requirement.
You are clearly stating that reaper is on comp so all bosses are a reasonable requirement. So that means to you livid farm's initial points are a reasonable requirement, but you just said they aren't. Just another case of you changing what you say to try and make an excuse.


Nex†is†Life said:

Burden of proof lies on the accuser. That's not me. You said group bosses are uncoventional

I have. 16 years of bossing with ~35 all being in the same convention vs 5 years and a handful being of the unconventional.

Nex†is†Life said:

open to everyone, right?

An ironman still can't group boss with a nonironman so no. Open to everyone would mean there is no restrictions on who can do what with who. They are still ultimately locked behind groups.

Nex†is†Life said:

was that they could leech group (and soloable unrestricted team size) bosses for free gear and loot.

So what the difference between an ironman doing that and a normal account doing that for money.
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20-Mar-2018 14:31:57

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
different things and you do both.

Okay I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Still doesn't change the fact I don't. Can you not read what I've responded with hmm?

Nex†is†Life said:

But you don't have to kill repeat boss

So I don't have to kill Arraxi twice for comp right now? But please tell me how Jagex puts what they think are reasonable comp reqs on comp cape.
They don't or no req would ever be changed


Nex†is†Life said:

with unresricted (aside from limit of 50) group sizes, with no group mechanics.

18 bosses with no group requirement to get in that can be fought solo
12 bosses that are soloable
30 bosses falls under ~35
Now lets count how many
initially
required groups
6 bosses which falls under a handful.
Yet you keep saying that soloable bosses aren't the convention in runescape.


Nex†is†Life said:

Secondly, your convention is pre-EoC

And post since mechanics to enter a room haven't changed because of combat. EoC is not a valid point. For the hundreth time
Entering a boss
has nothing to do with
combat


Nex†is†Life said:

No, open to everyone means everyone can do it.

Can ironmen raid with their friends? No
Can ironmen kill gwd1 bosses with friends? Yes
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20-Mar-2018 15:56:49

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
You don't have to kill Rax twice for comp.

Thanks for proving my point you don't actually know about comp reqs. Because you actually do, and it proves the point of your repetitiveness should be cut down.

Nex†is†Life said:

Convention doesn't simply mean majority

It actually does "con∑ven∑tion
kənˈven(t)SH(ə)n/Submit
noun
1.
a way in which something is usually done"
Usually done means majority. Again EoC has nothing to do with
how you enter a boss.
You can teleport(using loadstones) when entering a room, means it isn't combat. How you open a door isn't combat. The requirements to enter a door doesn't have anything to do with combat.

Nex†is†Life said:

Can Ironmen complete a raid With friends? No
seems closed to me.

Fixed for ya
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20-Mar-2018 22:10:45

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
Because you actually don't

Yet Arraxor is still on the list twice. (reaper and Morvran). Just like slayer, dung, and inv are on the comp twice.

Nex†is†Life said:

It's still hilarious how you think one TWO Rax kills is too long a grind.

I'm going off of what you said: Twice the arraxor, would be a mindless grind if twice the livid farm is.


Nex†is†Life said:

what sets group bosses apart from other bosses.

Yet you can because at the start you had to have a group, aka unconventional to what was in game.
Nex†is†Life said:

You don't need bold and italic and underlining and colouring all at once, it just shows you're bad at expressing yourself

Then why is it so hard for you to read it in normal text?

Nex†is†Life said:

They can complete a raid.

Not with friends, if it was open to everyone anyone and everyone could raid together.

@Lord,
I would never add him in game with how he tried to flame me so many times.
But these arguments(sad to say his side too) are just as useful to the debate for jagex to know both sides and make a more informed choice, and the correct choice. Just saying.

Nex†is†Life said:

It bothers me when people say stuff should be made easier for them.
.

Removing group bosses does not make comp any easier since leeching is just as easy as it not being on comp in the first place. Group bosses being removed doesn't affect the difficulty in challenge, it only changes the convenience. Less convenient does not make a better req just cause.
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21-Mar-2018 00:42:38 - Last edited on 21-Mar-2018 23:32:35 by Kcin

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Menaphos said:

If you cannot fight properly...
You're not a completionist if you haven't completed everything.


yeah because you obviously have to fight them properly for it to count? What is the point of forcing it on when you can leech it and make it so you never actually fought the boss but have an artificial 1 kc? There would be no difference if group bosses get removed.

Comp cape is far from completing everything. So you aren't a completionist if you only have the completionist cape.

Menaphos said:

On a lore standpoint, Dahmaroc was a powerful mage who essentially set the "requirements" for the cape himself.

On a lore standpoint, Dahmaroc has no clue what raids are so how would he be able to set a requirement for the cape that didn't exist when he did? He has been a statue ever since so there isn't a way that he could have found out about it.
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27-Mar-2018 13:50:55 - Last edited on 27-Mar-2018 17:45:04 by Kcin

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Noob†King said:

How could you "Complete" the game without doing all bosses? Same reason you need to achive 120 in the skills that goes that far (Dung, slay, invention).

Can people please stop using this argument. How could you "complete" the game without doing majority of things in the game. If completionist cape was a "complete" the game cape then there wouldn't be a trim version, there wouldn't be mqc reqs that aren't on comp, there wouldn't be achievement(in this lol achievement system) that aren't on the cape as well. BTW removing reaper wouldn't remove bossing from the cape. And form previous discussion reaper doesn't even cover all the bosses as is.


Noob†King said:

As for the cape itself, the main benefit of the cape is BIS cape

Others would argue the other perks are also main benefits of the cape, you know the ones that have nothing to do with combat.(and there are a lot of benefits the cape gives that isn't to combat or combat stats.

Noob†King said:
but theres nothing else on the cape that is unique to the cape. Just the combat benefits.

The not having to switch capes is unique to this cape, not just the benefits of combat but the teleports the skilling boosts. Not having to switch capes depending on your activity is a unique benefit only this cape gives that isn't only combat. Its that mindset which has put the comp cape is the terrible position it is with reaper.
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28-Mar-2018 13:29:03 - Last edited on 28-Mar-2018 13:30:14 by Kcin

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Noob†King said:

i don't see why having to bring two capes on farm runs is a problem.

Why force people ,who are just as a completionist as a comp owner, to not get the perks of the cape just because they can't deal with elitsim in PvM?

PvMers don't have to carry 2 capes why should everyone else have to if they have the same if not more done in the game? Reaper has been a faulty req since the creation of group bosses. Group bosses are togglable for soul reaper for a reason, same should be done for reaper title.

If comp is to complete a good chunk of the game, solo PvM gets that done, comp cape without reaper would also still complete that goal.

Comp cape is no longer about a completionist cape trim is for that, and it should only stay for trim. Reaper belongs on trim more than it ever belonged on comp cape.

Esploratore said:

Perhaps requiring a reasonable number of attempts at a boss (successful or not) would be a fairer requirement.


That is actually a really good idea, and for the argument that people would only no item and die right away maybe make a time limit that you have to last for the encounter to count in the boss(varying based on estimated time that it takes to kill the boss so like last through 1/2 minutes at arrax) only problem that still arises out of this is group bosses.

Edit:
I would also like to add on the point that reaper title is the 2nd most frustrating thing to get on comp, only behind Livid farm both being ahead by a good chunk. There has to be a reason for that besides "people aren't good at pvm".(according to the survey which comp cape owners could answer) While Quests, skills, and achievements rank higher overall for enjoyment on the cape. Comp capers clearly don't like bossing as much as the other 2 big areas of the game. As well on the survey the question about removing reaper, the majority ~60% wanted it removed or something done to it(top-end bosses).
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29-Mar-2018 15:46:52 - Last edited on 30-Mar-2018 18:40:07 by Kcin

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Prime†Axiom said:

The reason is exactly that.

yeah no.

Prime†Axiom said:

Most RuneScape players also prefer revolution and think Arraxor is top tier PVM.

Just because you use Revolution doesn't mean you can't manual enter too so that has no actual bearing on combat abilities.

Prime†Axiom said:

It is not inaccurate to say that most players are not good at PVM

Just like how it isn't inaccurate to say the majority of comp cape owners dislike Reaper being on the cape and want something done about it. Unlike yours which can be said is inaccurate as you have no data behind your statement. And please note that it is comp cape owners who say this not just people who are going for it.
People who have killed all the bosses do not like all the bosses as a req.


Prime†Axiom said:
prove you are good at any boss.

Even more reason to remove it.

Nex†is†Life said:
holy fk you

You added a lot to the conversation huh...
sarcasm
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31-Mar-2018 03:59:54 - Last edited on 01-Apr-2018 14:15:57 by Kcin

Kcin

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Qwis7 said:

People that do not agree with this basically make money form selling boss kills and see a money making methode dying in my opinion.


This.

The only reason why someone would want to keep the group bosses on is so they can sell their leeches. Without the bosses being required they would lose their leech money. Any attempt that says keep them just because of difficulty don't realize leeching is the equivalent of it not being on the cape in the first place. Take out the middleman already.

Comp owners have spoken and why aren't people listening(specially those who have been in this thread saying poll the compers...)
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03-Apr-2018 19:43:39 - Last edited on 03-Apr-2018 20:41:43 by Kcin

Kcin

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Boldly†Rule said:

There is more than one way to skin a cat and darting a boss is pretty exciting even if you get no drops or you are allowed to do it only once. Just saying. You can get the music track as well.


Kcin said:

I would also like to add on the point that reaper title is the 2nd most frustrating thing to get on comp, only behind Livid farm both being ahead by a good chunk.... As well on the survey the question about removing reaper, the majority ~60% wanted it removed or something done to it(top-end bosses).


Not saying your idea is a bad one, but Comp capers don't like this req on the cape(as it is) and if you are going to go through the work of making an insta kill dart work for a boss kill then it is easier to just remove the req. Since they are the same concept.
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04-Apr-2018 02:58:17 - Last edited on 04-Apr-2018 19:27:59 by Kcin

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SandyHorizon said:

Some group bossing clans may very well want to keep reaper on comp to make money, but your statement unfairly condemns anyone who prefers the requirement to stay as is.

What reason other than money would there be to keep it as it is? Leeching is effectively not having the boss on the req anyway.

SandyHorizon said:

Some people just go with the flow and don't feel the need to protest every single decision. It's not necessarily because we agree with Jagex's decision, we just don't sweat things like this because it's not a big deal

In that case it wouldn't be a big deal for this group of people to accept the change.

Also the argument "I had to do it so others can do it" is a terrible argument to use in order to keep something the way it is. If all decisions followed that logic all skills would still be less than 10k xp/hr.
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08-Apr-2018 14:50:34

Kcin

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Prime†Axiom said:
C4ta

Ahh you are talking about the combat "style" Jagex is planning to change? So my statement stands. BTW you can't ignore the best and say yeah its all going to be the worst. So you can't ignore optimal rotations.

Prime†Axiom said:
C4ta

I am saying most runescape players aren't good at PVM. One only has to look at the number of people who report enjoying raids.[/quote] Or you know something could be wrong with how raids are set up and how they force you to play them.


Prime†Axiom said:

sampled every boss, kinda like a completionist

Morvran's challenge does just as good as reaper does on that part without the hate behind it.


Prime†Axiom said:
This majority wishes the more difficult group PVM requirements removed because they are afraid of new bosses like Solak

1) You can't doubt it because the stats say so

2)Or you know, the completionists don't think you need to complete reaper to be a completionist and/or hate the bosses themselves because of how they force you to play. You are throwing a lot of shade for not having much high qualities yourself shown so far. So yes you are wrong.
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11-Apr-2018 13:25:02 - Last edited on 11-Apr-2018 13:30:39 by Kcin

Kcin

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Prime†Axiom said:
Even without c4t, manual is better dps.

Never said it wasn't. I was saying you can still manual in revolution the game doesn't stop you.

Prime†Axiom said:

What's wrong with raids? Movran's challenge doesn't even have gwd2 or telos.

Reaper doesn't have half the actual bosses in the game so whats the difference between morvran's taste and reapers taste? Morvran's you have handicaps reaper you don't.
And you know what is wrong with the setup for raids.


Prime†Axiom said:

Movran's challenge doesn't allow you to sample group bosses

And that is why Morvran's challenge is the better comp req, it doesn't force group stuff on the player.

Prime†Axiom said:

which are more difficult easier than solo bosses unless because you leech.

Prime†Axiom said:

Do you not see the irony of saying

Talk about irony. Calling comp cape an actual completionist. Good joke. Comp cape owners don't have to do even half the stuff thats actually in the game.

Also your work hard logic is flawed, less we get back the 10k xp/hr rates.

When the majority of comp want a req removed or changed that is a logical reason to change or remove said req. They did it with livid farm(most frustrating comp req) it is now time for that to happen with reaper(2nd most).

edit:
Also getting the platinum on the morvran's dungeon to unlock the slayer master title shows you are proficient enough in PvM.
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11-Apr-2018 18:49:51 - Last edited on 11-Apr-2018 19:09:59 by Kcin

Kcin

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Prime†Axiom said:
You can't sneak in autos by waiting ticks on revo, which is one of the primary ways manual is better than revo.

None of that would even matter when Jagex changes the system(which they said they would) So I shall end talking of this on my side.

Prime†Axiom said:

How does reaper not have half the actual bosses in game?

courtesy of nex Nex†is†Life said:
reaper is only 26 out of over 40 bosses.
. So it might barely have over half.

Prime†Axiom said:

Even with handicaps, none of Movran's tasks is harder than say

Oh yes, tell me how hard a leech is. Telos is the only thing that has an actual argument to stay on comp out of that.

Prime†Axiom said:

Actually an ad populum fallacy. It's an emotionally driven argument, not a logical one.

Actually it isn't an ad populum. It isn't an emotionally driven argument, its a statistical one.

Prime†Axiom said:
must handle whatever content requirements thrown at them

Livid farm reduced, harmony moss reduced say hello.

Prime†Axiom said:
definition of completionist is someone who completes all content.

Could someone tell the comp cape that then? Trim is the actual completionist cape.

Prime†Axiom said:
Let's not pretend a significant part of this isn't out of fear of new bosses

If it was a fear of bosses, Morvran's slayer challenge would have shown up on that list near reaper, yet it wasn't. Reaper and livid farm had a good chunk lead on the 3rd most frustrating comp req. One has been dealt with the other hasn't yet.
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11-Apr-2018 22:14:58

Kcin

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Prime†Axiom said:
They never said they were removing anything I just said.


Mod†Pi said:

The planned changes are:


1. No longer allow your auto attack swing to be reset or more accurately go backwards outside of legacy mode. If you perform an auto attack with a rate 6 weapon it will take 6 ticks before you can auto attack again, regardless of whether you change weapon. This prevents the most glaring bug with 4taa in that you can perform auto attacks with staff damage at the same rate as a wand.


2. Performing an ability will delay your auto attack swing by a minimum of 5 ticks. Just preventing the auto attack reset will not stop 4taa, only nerf its damage. You would still be able to delay by 4 ticks with a wand and then auto->ability on the same tick. By delaying autos by this much you miss out on adrenaline and DPM if you delay for the auto but still allows back to back auto->ability combos should you want to.



Could you make the post any more off topic?
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11-Apr-2018 23:56:25 - Last edited on 11-Apr-2018 23:56:47 by Kcin

Kcin

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Prime†Axiom said:
Right there in your post Jagex


More off topic, please note that it will be removed and if that method doesn't work rest be assured jagex would try something else. I suggest you get back on topic.

Prime†Axiom said:

Speaking of math, 26/40 is more than half.

Reading comprehension please.
Kcin said:
So it might barely have over half.

And it didn't say 40 exact it said over 40


Prime†Axiom said:

Appealing to majority is the very definition of ad populum.
...

Movran's challenge has no challenging pvm feats.

Find the term for following what the statistics say.

Btw leeching has no pvm feats too so it doesn't matter if Morvran's doesn't have any boss past 2k14. Gwd isn't harder than arraxor, and only one that is past that release date is telos.

Also how many times do I have to say it. My quoting isn't all that I am replying to. It is to indicate the post and general idea I am replying to. Context and reading comprehension please.
Leeching bosses aren't hard btw
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12-Apr-2018 00:24:38 - Last edited on 12-Apr-2018 00:40:33 by Kcin

Kcin

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Prime†Axiom said:
That's your response? Ignore and continue being wrong?

Not ignoring, its off topic. Not wrong see Jagex quote. Off topic = has no place on this thread.

Prime†Axiom said:

I'm not concerned about the term, I'm concerned about the reasoning. Your argument is that a
statistic says something is wrong.
This is an ad populum fallacy
statistics
.


Prime†Axiom said:

BM, Yaka, Aod, Telos. All harder than rax.

Tell me how a leech is harder (Telos being the only one that is harder and if you would actually read what I said, ironic huh, you would know I comment on it.)

Prime†Axiom said:

Again, if leeching is your problem,

Leeching isn't the problem. The problem is what causes the leeching to happen in the first place.
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12-Apr-2018 01:04:20 - Last edited on 12-Apr-2018 01:04:33 by Kcin

Kcin

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Prime†Axiom said:
You are dead wrong.

Continued off topic, Jagex post again. Last I'll acknowledge this.

Prime†Axiom said:

The fact you don't recognize what an ad populum fallacy is

Actually the argument I am making would fall in line more with normative decision theory. More precisely prescriptive decision theory, which are usually done with the help of statistical and econometric methods.

Prime†Axiom said:

Yeah, I don't leech my bosses so I wouldn't know.

I don't leech bosses either, but you don't have to do it to know it takes 0 effort or skill, and isn't difficult at all.

Prime†Axiom said:

Doing Aod, BM, or Yaka

Doesn't matter, if it can be done in an easier way you don't compare the hardest way with the easiest way. You compare both easiest ways. Being the easiest arraxor is harder than the easiest group boss.

Prime†Axiom said:

Now if your problem is with leeche

Man can you not read?
Kcin said:

Leeching isn't the problem. The problem is what causes the leeching to happen in the first place.


When flower games and gambling was rampant. Jagex didn't just deal with the people hosting or the accounts invovled, they cut the head off the snake and changed the methods being used.
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12-Apr-2018 01:45:49 - Last edited on 12-Apr-2018 01:47:41 by Kcin

Kcin

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Prime†Axiom said:
It's not off topic.


Prime†Axiom said:

You want to appeal to the fact that

Statistics don't lie. Call it what it is. The people who own the cape say it doesn't fit on the cape.


Prime†Axiom said:
Now if your problem is with leeches

Kcin said:

Leeching isn't the problem.
The problem is what causes the leeching
to happen in the first place.



Prime†Axiom said:

But, like I imagined, you don't have a problem with people leeching.

yep yep. Leeching isn't the problem the thing that makes people leech is the problem. In this case group bosses.

Prime†Axiom said:

You want to use leeching as an excuse to nerf reqs because you can't/won't complete pvm content.

It ain't an excuse. Its an example of why Group bosses do not add any difficulty to comp.
So go on and talk shit about my reading comprehension when you can't even understand a simple statement I made. Or is it you just ignore it because you know you are in the wrong.

Prime†Axiom said:

You know, leeching isn't against the rules right?

I know, but again. Leeching = no effort. no effort = not on the cape. so might as well make it what it already is and remove it from the cape.

Prime†Axiom said:

Jagex can't nip leeching by its roots

Several ways:
1) remove them from the req of comp cape
2) make a minimum amount of damage dealt to get rewards
Removes the need for leeching for comp cape, and removes the leeching from getting rewards. AT ITS ROOTS.

And all that without going off topic like you keep trying to do.
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12-Apr-2018 02:39:07 - Last edited on 12-Apr-2018 03:31:29 by Kcin

Kcin

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Prime†Axiom said:
Again, ad populum.

is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition must be true because many or most people believe it, often concisely encapsulated as: "If many believe so, it is so."
A statistical fact is not a belief. What you are trying to argue with is an actual ad populum except it is a single person(you, or a few[3 max]) saying it.

Prime†Axiom said:

"Leeching = no effort. no effort = not on the cape" is a terrible argument.

So tell me then, explain to me then. How is leeching so hard?

Prime†Axiom said:

First of all, the measure for whether something is comp isn't necessarily effort.

Okay so there goes a "reason" to keep group bosses.

Prime†Axiom said:

The requirement for compshould be that it is notable game content. Bosses = Game content = Cape reqs.

Yep Morvran's challenge has that, rush of blood also has that for minibosses(slayer bosses) too. So without reaper that mark is still checked.

Prime†Axiom said:

Lots of things take no effort. You think beginner quests are harder than leeching yaka?

Actually yes. You have to put effort into completing the quest. Yaka leech you just avoid damage even a level 60 could leech(example provided by nex)

Prime†Axiom said:

It's still game content.

Alot of content isn't on comp, a lot of bosses aren't on comp. Your point?

Prime†Axiom said:

Leeching a yaka kill is considerably more difficult than soloing any gwd boss or kbd.

And I own all the GP in the game.

Prime†Axiom said:

then just do it and be a real completionist.

Lol again with this real completionist bull. Comp cape is not a real completionist. Also I would never leech I have integrity unlike some.
All of this still doesn't change reaper doesn't belong
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12-Apr-2018 03:42:14 - Last edited on 12-Apr-2018 03:43:09 by Kcin

Kcin

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Prime†Axiom said:
The lack of objectivity is.

Like with you refusing to accept statistics?
BTW do you think old school's system (which is vote based majority vote wins based on statistics) is a bad system and players hate nearly all the updates there?


Prime†Axiom said:

Leeching is not particularly difficult, but it still requires some effort.

Very little effort that it can be seen as no effort. Also with Raids, you don't even have to live through the kill. So what you infer is wrong. So lets go at this for you.
Cooks assistant, you talk to the cook you gather up the supplies, you hand them back to the cook. That is more effort than we will show with a Yaka kill. Get to Yaka, die, have team(not you) kill the boss, get the kc.


Prime†Axiom said:

Also, there is effort in finding a group that will let you leech.

Go to forum, pull out your wallet. Easy. Minimal effort again.
The only effort there is in a leech of raids is due to the bad mechanics of raids themselves. Can only loot every 2 days, have to find a time that sets and works for all 10 people.

Prime†Axiom said:

My reason for keeping bosses as comp reqs

And bossing will stay a comp req with the removal of reaper.

Prime†Axiom said:
You should complete all notable game content,

*knock knock* Who is it? *opens door*
Its all the major game content that isn't on comp cape.
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12-Apr-2018 13:14:00 - Last edited on 13-Apr-2018 01:37:51 by Kcin

Kcin

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Lush Snow said:
Cos you know, if it isn't an actual future game update, we can just close this thread or move it or whatever because Jagex clearly don't care anyway.


With as much talk Jagex has had on this topic this would be under this forum so it doesn't warrant a thread close or move.

edit:
So as not to make another post as it isn't pertaining to the topic:
Lush Snow said:

Well this forum is for confirmed updates so maybe stop arguing and sort it out because I don't think they are actually doing it from what I have heard. Not this decade.

That is where you are wrong sir.

"What is the Future Updates Forum for?

The Future Updates Forum is an awesome Forum where you can use your detective skills to the max. What do you think weíll be releasing next and how did you come to your conclusion?

You could also discuss known planned updates."

As the majority of this thread is talking about a possibility of something happening based on Jagex talk and statistics that have been released it does relate and fall into the category of this forum.
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15-Apr-2018 23:00:03 - Last edited on 16-Apr-2018 00:46:06 by Kcin

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Dayflypuma said:

I Don't know why people think they deserve comp cape let's try to understand the meaning of completionist

It aint the comp cape thats for sure. I don't know why people think that comp cape is a completionist cape.

Dayflypuma said:

The meaning of completionist is a player who attempts to complete every challenge and earn every achievement or trophy in the game.

And comp cape is farrr from that, trim is the completionist cape that you are referring to, and if reaper moves to that that argument fails(as it already does)

Dayflypuma said:

So for all of u little brats who think you deserve the comp cape on a gold plattered plate... Just quit the game because you don't deserve it...

Okay everyone turn in your untrimmed comp cape because you don't deserve it since you aren't a completionist using this argument.

Dayflypuma said:

there's a reason why most want the completionist cape because of it's Combat bonus...

and its skilling and just general usefulness...

Dayflypuma said:

nerfing it would kill the idea....

If they can do it to livid farm they sure as hell can do it to reaper.(both in the same category of hate to actual comp owners)

Dayflypuma said:
.... Earn it.... Don't beg for it

The irony in this statement is denser than 7.86g/cm^3
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24-Apr-2018 14:46:49 - Last edited on 24-Apr-2018 14:47:06 by Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
Kcin said:
If they can do it to livid farm they sure as hell can do it to reaper.
You know livid wasn't actually removed, right?


And again bossing won't be removed.

Nex†is†Life said:
Telos would be, not like ur cutting 1000 kill grind down to 600 more like 1 down to 0 which is removing.

That is one boss that would be lost, but if you can do arraxor there is high chance you can do telos so what does it matter anyway. You are cutting the number of bosses down, so yes it is like cutting x amount down to y amount. which is not removing.

As stated previously, you aren't actually showing anything for 1 kill, for all we know it could be a lucky run, a leech, hell even a kill when you died. The reaper is a pointless req when it nearly is already pointless and just causes problems and frustration in the comp cape owners.

BTdubs what ever happened to this:
Nex†is†Life said:

I feel it would be fair to let people who have earned their comp capes have the final say into whether it is devalued or not.

The comp cape owners have had their say and yet you are still arguing against that.
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24-Apr-2018 23:53:09 - Last edited on 25-Apr-2018 01:30:21 by Kcin

Kcin

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SandyHorizon said:

I'm a comp owner and didn't find the requirement frustrating at all.

Congrats you are in the minority. But you are happy the current bossing aren't hard and thats why? Well GL in the future when they get ridiculously hard like they want to make them.

SandyHorizon said:
which is not fine.

I"m sorry, Jagex statistics saying what the majority is outweigh the vocal minority.
See page 34 post 10 the edit part specifically(would quote but not enough characters)
SandyHorizon said:

You don't speak for me, nor do other comp owners speak for me.

Yeah I don't, but you are in the minority you don't speak for the majority the stats do speak for both and says that people want it changed.

SandyHorizon said:
but it does require a lot of major content .

More like a handful.


SandyHorizon said:
it was results from the web poll, not in game poll. The poll didn't seem very scientific

A poll is a poll and any poll you send out to people to fill out is scientific (social science) maybe you should look into that stuff before you call it unscientific.
I'll make it clear how to read statistics for you.
Also like you even acknowledge, Reaper is the 2nd most frustrating comp requirement(behind livid farm) both are ahead of 3rd by a good margin unlike the rest compared to each other on the list.
How ever on the enjoyable the minority speak and it shows up, not nearly as large of a peak as on the frustrating by not nearly as large or significant peak to the others behind it.

In short, minority still gets its say, clearly its still not as big as the majority.
Either people love it or hate it and the majority hate it

SandyHorizon said:

majority one way or the other.

Girl do you even know what statistics are? Just cause you are in the minority doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
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25-Apr-2018 13:51:50 - Last edited on 25-Apr-2018 14:53:14 by Kcin

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T Olvana said:
it doesn't mean that reaper should be removed from requirements. The poll just shows people's opinions. Of course, from a business view it is beneficial for Jagex to listen to the players, but peoples opinions don't make things automaticly true.

I would agree with that if it was only the frustration question that was on there, but since there was another question that specifically asked "which of the following changes to the Reaper title do you prefer?" and the answer to that question was the majority(again) wanted a change of some sort. Following the ordeals with Livid farm and Harmony moss you can follow a trend and Jagex should listen to their players. Listening to people's opinion is what makes the game better. So yes the poll and all the statistics that go with does mean something should be done to reaper.
Look at EoC's implementation and the original SoF and think about how those could have been



T Olvana said:

it may be worth checking how may comp cape owners actually answered to that poll.

On just the Reaper title question I referred to ~32 thousand (estimate as exact numbers aren't given) people answered it, I don't know how many people have comp cape overall( I can't find any stats). Either way 32k people is a significant amount that shows the population trends in RS.

T Olvana said:

Third, a poll is not necessarily scientific.

"What is a scientific sample?

A scientific sample is a process in which the respondents are chosen randomly by one of several methods. The key component in the scientific sample is that everyone within the designated group (sample frame) has a chance of being selected."
Jagex did not pull specific people to answer the question they had it open for the RS community(it wouldn't make sense for non rs players to vote obviously) everyone had a chance of voting in it.
(cont onto next post)
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25-Apr-2018 18:31:41 - Last edited on 25-Apr-2018 18:36:43 by Kcin

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(cont)
and couple that with:
"Scientific polling is any polling that makes use of statistical information during the process of selecting participants."
and the poll was a scientific poll. Social sciences Yeah.

T Olvana said:

By the way, have you heard this saying

Whoo trying to disprove statistics with a saying... yum.

T Olvana said:

Finally, my opinion on this. What would you say if there was a solo completionist cape, which would require all soloable content in the game?

As I've supported before, move the top end(group bosses) onto trim would be just fine as one of the possible solutions.
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25-Apr-2018 18:31:45 - Last edited on 25-Apr-2018 19:49:01 by Kcin

Kcin

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First listen to:10:35-10:42(ish) then look up what branched questions are.
second don't make up numbers, use what is said by Jagex or stated on the graphs, you cannot see what markings the lines actually represent. Jagex also does not state on the specific question the numbers in amount of people answering.

SandyHorizon said:

(1) ... which is a hell of a far cry from a 60% majority, it's not even 50%.

(2) both comped and non-comped

(1)Look up representative sampling please. The comp cape specific question (frustration) has the majority disliking reaper. That correlates also(but not related to that specific question) to the whole of RS population(those who might go for comp but dissuaded because of x for the same reason) Also look up what percentages mean.
(60% BTW is from Jagex the people actually looking at all the statistics and numbers)

(2) has no validation as the frustration question was pure comp owners.

SandyHorizon said:

Again, my problem with what you're saying isn't that you are for removal, but that you keep making the unsubstantiated claim that comp cape owners have spoken.

Removal as one of the possible fixes yes. Statics showing that comp cape owners have spoken their dislike towards reaper, yes. Why fight the numbers?
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25-Apr-2018 20:29:15 - Last edited on 25-Apr-2018 20:37:48 by Kcin

Kcin

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Dayflypuma said:
lol I just looked up Kcin stats and the funny part was he doesn't have 120 slayer yet but he's crying about reaper tasks.


Ah yes, just because i don't have the internet to actually handle slaying right now def means I don't have the famous title. Nor have the slayer master title. Nor have a ton of combat xp(a lot from bossing).

Btw what you did was try to flame, what i've been doing is actually debating a topic that shouldn't even be one in the first place(reaper has no place on comp in its current state)
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25-Apr-2018 23:41:03 - Last edited on 25-Apr-2018 23:42:32 by Kcin

Kcin

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T Olvana said:

True. You are right. And if I'm not mistaken the people who voted were not randomly chosen.

Random sampling:
"A sampling method in which all members of a group (population or universe) have an equal and independent chance of being selected."
It was a random sample, please read up before you make comments like that again in the future. All people in this community had an equal chance to partake in the survey Jagex didn't select certain people.

T Olvana said:

Maybe the poll was Is scientific. That, however, doesn't mean that it presents the truth. Scientific studies can and will sometimes go wrong for whatever reason.

Where is your evidence that states the poll is wrong? The vocal minority here? It is on the accuser to prove it wrong, your opinion cannot prove statics wrong alone.

T Olvana said:

P.S. I'm not really claiming that the poll is absolutely false and you are wrong or anything. I'm just bringing up things that are worth considering.

Well then, make sure they are worth considering. The poll clearly states who the majority and minority are in this opinion. Unless you come up with something else all attempts to disprove that are not worth it and specially when trying to do an opinion vs fact even worse.
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26-Apr-2018 14:14:21

Kcin

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T Olvana said:

No, you are wrong. It is true that in a random sample every person in the studied group (in this case, those who have comp cape) have the same chance of being selected.

branched questions do not remove the fact that the survey was a random sample survey.

"Conditional branching (or Skip logic) is a feature that changes what question or page a respondent sees next based on how they answer the current question. Conditional branching creates a custom path through the survey that varies based on a respondent's answers."

You have quoted for me the meaning of random sampling again I don't have to repeat that. So lets break this down for you. The whole poll was able to be accessed by anyone who clicked on the link for it, the link given out to jagex to the whole community. Random sampling. Any and all comp cape owners had the chance to take the survey and answer the questions. Now as you can read about branching in a questionnaire that does not remove the fact that every comp cape owner had the same opportunity to answer the question. The question is still under the random sampling of the whole survey. Seriously please read up on how statics and how survey polling works for a sceintific survey.
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26-Apr-2018 15:35:59 - Last edited on 26-Apr-2018 15:36:33 by Kcin

Kcin

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T Olvana said:
You clearly don't read my posts, do you? What have branched questions to do with this? I never spoke anything of them.

T Olvana said:
(in this case, those who have comp cape)

The only part of this survey that "selected" people was the comp only questions, and branched questions(which those were) do not remove the fact that the survey was a random sample survey.


T Olvana said:

And again, the poll was not conducted using a random sample, if the poll was sent to every comp cape owner.

Okay now I know for sure you do not have a clue of what you are talking about.
"In this technique, each member of the population has an equal chance of being selected as subject. The entire process of sampling is done in a single step with each subject selected independently of the other members of the population. There are many methods to proceed with simple random sampling."
Jagex selects the people for the survey(in this case the whole community) everyone has an equal chance of being selected(and they all were). The fact that some decide not to answer does not mean it isn't a random sample. Since there are people who didn't answer for both sides they ultimately "cancel each other out" and the survey is still representative of the population.

T Olvana said:

how many of the comp cape owners voted?

How do you not realize that people who didn't vote also could have hated reaper and answered accordingly.


The poll states and represents the population and opinions of said population. For Jagex to ignore the majority and what they want would be another horrible decision.
Again see EoC and original SoF for examples
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26-Apr-2018 16:06:45

Kcin

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T Olvana said:
I'm not entirely sure what part you don't understand. You definitely know what is random sampling's definiton, but this poll does not meet the criteria. Why? Because it was sent to every comp cape owner.

Yet the nonRS players never got it if you wanna go that route. The whole world had access to the survey (it was posted online) and jagex selected randomly the RS players and through that got a representative sample of comp owners.

Original message details are unavailable.
It may very well be the other way around.

Based on the stats and how the stats are representative of the community, that is highly unlikely.

Your point, literally doesn't require me to respond as I have already talked about that.
Survey = representative of population = majority of comp owners do not like reaper
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26-Apr-2018 16:25:22

Kcin

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T Olvana said:

This text I quoted is completely absurd. It is totally irrelevant what nonRS players think.

Exactly but they still had the chance to vote, but if you wanna keep saying Jagex didn't randomly select go for it.


T Olvana said:

The target group of this was RS players so that forms the basic group of the study. If the survey was sent to every one of the target group, it was not random sampling.

The survey was for the RS3 players(since its rs3 content) but I am fairly sure there were atleast a few OSRS players vote(s) in there as well.

T Olvana said:

And let me clarify:

A representative study is still a representative study

Again:
Kcin said:

Your point, literally doesn't require me to respond as I have already talked about that.
Survey = representative of population = majority of comp owners do not like reaper
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26-Apr-2018 16:40:02

Kcin

Kcin

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T Olvana said:
You have chosen to see only what you want to see and turn a blind eye to everything else.

(btw if you gonna use a title use the title I have, ultimate quester)
Yet I haven't you are the one trying to disprove a statistic when it cant be.

T Olvana said:

1) The poll was not conducted using a random sampling

yet i have proven your repetitive statement wrong and wrong again. So I will no longer reply to this point since you can't get it through your head.

T Olvana said:

2) It is always worth considering how many answered and did not answer.

when it comes to randomness, the ones that don't answer can be assumed to cancle each other out since we don't know their choice there is a 50/50 chance it goes one way or the other, and since it has equal chance of being +/- they cancel each other out and we are left with what we know. The beauty of randomness.

T Olvana said:

3)poll represents the majority and is accurate.

Then why try time and time again to disprove the survey. Just admit you changed your mind.
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26-Apr-2018 17:15:06

Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
Livid farm wasn't removed for comp, it was reduced. You have to do it for over 20 hours. Doing it for another 15 hours doesn't really add anything.
If the requirement for Solak was Final boss and a hundred kills required, I would support reducing that.

I said we (everyone) does not has a problem. That is not to say nobody has a problem, it was to say everyone isn't one person who is bad at RS.


Again if group bosses are moved to trim/removed from comp:

Bossing wasn't removed for comp, it was reduced. You have to do it for 10 boss kills. Doing it for another 10+ boss kills doesn't really add anything.

I said the majority has a problem. That is not to say minority doesn't has a problem.
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03-Jun-2018 15:19:53

Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
But you don't have to do 10 34 boss kills.
...

You didn't say anything because I was replying to someone else.


If your logic works on livid farm being reduced, it will work on reaper being reduced.

Kill 34 bosses, vs kill 10 bosses
Do 20 hours of livid vs do 35 hours of livid

I did say this before, not my fault you can't remember what proves you wrong. When talking and you are in the majority (specially when it is the vast majority) you can say "we" when talking about the subject.
Example: "We the people"


Nex†is†Life said:

dare I say it... a Max cape?

Dare i say it.. a comp cape would show more than just skilling. Also comp has more uses than just the combat stats.
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04-Jun-2018 03:35:12 - Last edited on 04-Jun-2018 17:41:01 by Kcin

Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
No it doesn't.

Yes it is. Killing 10 bosses vs killing 20 bosses. Completing 10 hours vs 20 hours. Tomatoe tomahto.
Leeching a boss, not having the boss in the first place, same thing as well.

Nex†is†Life said:

someone else, who said "everyone has a problem".

Hey you you haven't figured out what an open forum is? You quoted the exact thing that states what you just said is wrong too.

Use of the word "we" when referring to the population of people concerns the definition of general people. The minority do not hold any sway when it is a majority say majority get. Example: The minority vote does not win.

Seems like you don't know how to use words properly.

So we in the majority can use we when talking about we do not like the reaper title on comp cape, however the minority cannot use we in that same sense as they aren't the majority.
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05-Jun-2018 19:21:42 - Last edited on 05-Jun-2018 19:22:32 by Kcin

Kcin

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The†Pacific said:

Comp cape shouldn't be
easy.

[sarcasm]

Yep cause comp def wouldn't have bossing on it still.
Leeching is soooo hard.
[/sarcasm]
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06-Jun-2018 00:30:27

Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
No, because each of those bosses is unique

In that case: Each time you get livid farm points you can do a unique mechanic, the plant choice isn't the same every time, the fence isn't the same every time, the order you can do these activies isn't the same. Bam unique just like how a 5phase boss is different from the other 5phase boss.


Nex†is†Life said:
Yes we can

You see, no you can't. The minority cannot speak for the majority, however the majority can speak for the majority. If you are going to try and correct someone else's grammar be sure you atleast know how to use it first.
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06-Jun-2018 12:33:19 - Last edited on 06-Jun-2018 12:45:56 by Kcin

Kcin

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Nex†is†Life said:
But you've already done every plant choicee

But you have already killed a multiphase boss

Nex†is†Life said:

every fence spot (both of them!) within an hour.

Araxxor has 3 different paths that aren't individually required(like you said)

Nex†is†Life said:

the special attacks are in a different order, the possible special attacks aren't the same each time.

Yeah just like livid farms mechanics aren't the same each time.

Tell me how it really is different. Sure bosses might have different looking mechanics, but its all the same. Find a way to avoid it, avoid it, dps it to death. Move onto the next boss, avoid it dps it, rinse and repeate.

So reaper can be reduced in the same way livid was.

Nex†is†Life said:
We means

Do you not know what context means?
"We" has different uses in different contexts in this context we means majority no you and some rando.
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06-Jun-2018 18:08:14 - Last edited on 06-Jun-2018 18:08:35 by Kcin

Kcin

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Konota said:

So... people can learn Solak and do what you say? :)


People can't solo solak, and that is its main problem.
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07-Jun-2018 12:24:07

Kcin

Kcin

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Draco†Burnz said:


Fail to see that as a "problem"?

Why must you be able to solo everything?

This is a MMO for a reason.


Kcin said:

2) just because its an mmo, doean't mean its only multiplayer
3)talking is multiplayer, trading etc


MMO=/=MGO (Massive group online) Because it is an RPG mainly is why everything should have a solo option. Hell the only reason that it has the "MO" part solely comes from the fact that its a server game, it has multiple players on it to trade and talk and pvp. Group bosses nor group content really ever existed when it was given the MMO title. The only thing that was a "group" activity can be soloed from RSC (fishing trawler)

You want group content on a cape, that is what trim is for. You want content that only .1% of the community can do that is what trim is for.

Comp is for showing you are a rounded player that you can do most content. Trim is the true completionist cape it shows you have done everything, hence why group bosses and bosses that only .1% of the community can do belong on it and not comp.
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07-Jun-2018 14:53:55 - Last edited on 07-Jun-2018 14:58:37 by Kcin

Kcin

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Draco†Burnz said:

You already have the "freedom of choice".

I don't think that means what you think it does.
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07-Jun-2018 23:33:17

Kcin

Kcin

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Draco†Burnz said:

Last i check you do have the freedom of choice.


Last I checked, you can't solo Solak, Rago, Raids etc.
Last I checked, you can't group up on Telos, QBD, Arraxor(more than 2) etc

That ain't freedom of choice.
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07-Jun-2018 23:49:40

Kcin

Kcin

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Draco†Burnz said:

Yet not everything needs to be soloable.

Correct, everything needs to be given the choice of solo or grouped up.

Draco†Burnz said:

If everything was the same, comp wouldnt be "hard" now would it.

Comp was just fine before reaper, it will be just fine after reaper being removed from it. That is the definition of why Trim was created.

Draco†Burnz said:

Plus its good to add variety to the mix every so often.

Yeah thats what trim comp is for. You also know what adds variety to the mix? Making bosses have the option to solo or boss. You know what doesn't give variety? Making it one or the other no choice.
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08-Jun-2018 00:24:51

Kcin

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RunezScape said:
Eh, just moving it to trim is lame as you're not experiencing the rest of the core content.

Core content? As in bossing? As in would still be on comp cape with the moving of reaper req?

RunezScape said:

Above and beyond goes for both capes.

If that was true, trim wouldn't even exist, clearly one is meant for the true above and beyond aka group content aka everything that doesn't make sense for normal comp.

RunezScape said:

why wouldn't that go for all?

I mean is everything required for trim on normal comp?
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10-Jun-2018 00:58:51 - Last edited on 10-Jun-2018 01:17:33 by Kcin

Kcin

Kcin

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Mike†Flame said:

In my opinion, two pvmers figuring out the mechanics of the boss for the first time is no difference to two people who enjoy quests figuring out the mechanics of the boss for the first time.


Biggest difference and why your example doesn't work. Quests are solo. The ones that weren't got changed to a solo option, just like how these bosses should be done or removed from comp.

Mike†Flame said:
And if some people can't do the puzzles in certain quests without having to spend time and learn

That is why the rs Wiki has quest guides that walk people through step by step, now if jagex can do that for bosses and step by step get people through the boss kill to get the reaper title that would be fine as well.

Easiest still is to just remove reaper from comp.

Mike†Flame said:

But have you really completed RS if you haven't done both? (Compcape)


Guess what, Comp cape isn't completing the game.
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12-Jun-2018 16:03:49 - Last edited on 12-Jun-2018 16:05:03 by Kcin

Kcin

Kcin

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Mike†Flame said:
Isn't this an MMO? Not everything should be solo :)


Kcin said:

MMO=/=MGO (Massive group online) Because it is an RPG mainly is why everything should have a solo option. Hell the only reason that it has the "MO" part solely comes from the fact that its a server game, it has multiple players on it to trade and talk and pvp. Group bosses nor group content really ever existed when it was given the MMO title. The only thing that was a "group" activity can be soloed from RSC (fishing trawler)
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12-Jun-2018 19:39:33

Kcin

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Konota said:
Mike†Flame said:
Isn't this an MMO? Not everything should be solo :)

People don't understand the term MMORPG. See the post above me for example.


People truly don't understand the term MMORPG if they can't understand this:

Kcin said:
Kcin said:
the only reason that it has the "MO" part solely comes from the fact that its a server game, it has multiple players on it to trade and talk and pvp.


RS has been an MMORPG way before any of its group bosses, or group content was even a thing. It was all a choice, how did you want to RPG it up, want to go solo go for it its an RPG, want to play with a group of people go for it its an RPG.

The main thing in the MMO
RPG
that concerns RS and its content is the highlighted part. Nothing should be one or the other, thats why reaper needs to be removed from comp so it is back to the choice option and not you have to do solo content or you have to do group content instead of you can do this however you want.
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13-Jun-2018 12:25:31 - Last edited on 13-Jun-2018 12:36:15 by Kcin

Kcin

Kcin

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Mike†Flame said:
Thats the beauty of comp, like the examine text says, for over achievers.

Thats what Trim comp is for the actual over achievers, comp cape isn't a completionist cape.

Mike†Flame said:

How useless would comp cape be if it was just a lore and quest cape, it's like a second master quest cape without reaper title.

Please learn the requirements to comp cape before you talk about them.
1)vastly different from mqc(mqc actually being more of a comp cape than normal comp cape is)
2)removing reaper doesn't remove bossing from comp
As you say"Mike†Flame said:

It's not that difficult to learn
So learn the requirements before you talk.
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13-Jun-2018 14:24:18

Kcin

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Mike†Flame said:

The examine text says for over achievers does it not?

examine text does not define what something represents. Does the examine text of the tree in yanile behind the anvil represent Mod Timbo?

Mike†Flame said:

Care to educate me of comp reqs you had in mind?

Its a simple 3 clicks away: click new tab, google search comp cape requirements, click on comp cape requirements.
Read up.

Mike†Flame said:

And you feel comp cape isnt really a comp cape

I don't feel, I know. Everyone knows. Comp cape isn't a comp cape for 2 reason: trim exists, and "true trim" exists. If comp was a fully comp cape then the other 2 wouldn't even exist.

No point in keeping reaper on comp except to provide business for leechers. Sorry not sorry for cutting into leeching profits.
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13-Jun-2018 14:36:02 - Last edited on 13-Jun-2018 14:36:34 by Kcin

Kcin

Kcin

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Mike†Flame said:

I am aware of the comp reqs, just seemed like you had some in mind I wasn't aware since you stated "removing reaper doesn't remove bossing from comp"

That is correct. Removing reaper from comp cape doesn't remove having to fight bosses from the comp cape. If you knew the comp reqs you would know that.

Mike†Flame said:

"so you want to make it less of a comp cape?"


Can't make something less of something else if it wasn't that something else to begin with.

And your final boss comment, I now know 100% you don't know the difference between "comp cape" and trim comp cape
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13-Jun-2018 15:12:24 - Last edited on 13-Jun-2018 15:13:25 by Kcin

Kcin

Kcin

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Mike†Flame said:

To conclude my opinion, Reaper title makes comp cape different

It doesn't make it any different, there is already a boss killing req so reaper isn't unique. Comp would be just as different without reaper as it is with reaper.

Mike†Flame said:
why remove and hand out easy comp capes, if it's not supposed to be a comp cape then why is it called that. No point making it easier to obtain :)

1)leeching group bossesn't isn't hard
2)removing group bosses won't change anything since leeching makes it so that req isn't even technically on the cape anymore
3)it won't make comp any easier to get as you still gotta boss.
4)it was supposed to be called the uber cape no clue why they changed it from that to comp. Cause now we got people thinking its an actual completionist cape when it is far from that
5)read up in the future

edit:
I find it funny the people who are for keeping reaper on comp tend to also be pro leeching for the "noobs who can't pvm" for comp. Yet I guarantee if jagex sold the kills theyd be up in arms.
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13-Jun-2018 15:56:41 - Last edited on 13-Jun-2018 16:03:01 by Kcin

Kcin

Kcin

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Konota said:
Someone that expects singleplay only gameplay in a mmo. ...


Pg 56 Post 1 and 4
Least I understand what an MMORPG is supposed to be like. Reaper holds no place on comp, it never has.

The only real reason people can come up with that isn't already covered by a different req on comp to keep reaper is because reaper brings in gp for them.
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13-Jun-2018 17:42:09

Kcin

Kcin

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Draco†Burnz said:
B†I†L†L†Y said:
take reaper off and make the golden slayer master a new req, makes more sense


Or how about leaving reaper and just adding golden slay master...


Or how about moving reaper to where it belongs (trim).
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16-Jun-2018 14:41:15 - Last edited on 16-Jun-2018 14:41:27 by Kcin

Kcin

Kcin

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Draco†Burnz said:

Or how about not doing anything to it...


When the majority have a problem with it/want it changed. It should be changed. Doing what the customers/players want is just good business practice and good game making.
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16-Jun-2018 22:34:26 - Last edited on 16-Jun-2018 22:35:05 by Kcin

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